Amazing stuff here. Glad he's finally telling his story.

Not sorry - but Sly's time is over. He had so many chances to do something. He says he always lived the life he wanted to live. I find that to be quite an overbuffing of him just being a fucking drug addict for the past forty years. He's been on drugs longer than he was ever a popular musician with a following. The ghostwriter was correct as with any druggie: Drugs are the priority. Nothing else ever matters. They can say it does, they can pretend they love this or care about that, but they don't.

Drugs. Are. Everything. And they're only fooling themselves and the fools around them if they believe otherwise. Hell, it takes a good year to get one's brain to normal again, get the toxicity out of it, to get a new baseline. Now he suddenly gets sober for what, a few months or something, and thinks he can write a book?

Is his book too little, too late? Eh, it's a book. Everyone's got one. Or will. Sly isn't an author. He's not a talk show host or something. He's a fucking musician. If he came back now, his audience base would this . that small. No Gen Z would give a shit about him, nor the Gen Y running the music business. No one stopped him from making music - as is his claim - except his dealers and himself.

Who is his audience now? What the heck is a book going to say about a few short years of a career? "Fifty five years ago I made 4 or 5 great albums. Then I became a doped up on smack ball sack who hasn't many any music or anything interesting in the past 50 years. Then end." That's barely a text, much less a book.

There's a line in the movie Arthur, where a guy (the actor later played the vice principle in The Breakfast Club, see's Arthur go into his father's office. He comments to Arthur's butler Hobson, "he gets all that money. Pays his family back by bein' a stinkin' drunk. It's enough to make you sick."

It’s almost as if he’s sitting up like some noble elder musical statesmen humming, “I did it my way.”
No, you smoked your way through it, and it wasn’t even weed. You were on fucking crack for the better part of a century.

I suppose it's only fair to be mad at the addiction, not the person. They're a victim too. Drugs is the real villain here, not Sly. But at some point, well before you're fucking 80 years old, you have to stand up and say, "hey, I gotta do something else here." It's why I don't put the blame on Prince too much for his addiction. It was the pull of the drugs that kept him enslaved to it. It killed him. And frankly, it'll kill Sly, too. That's the worst part, that these geniuses in music just end up being another statistic and stereotype of a drugged out, dead rock star.

[Edited 10/6/23 12:54pm]

Not gonna judge the brother and can honestly appreciate getting an update on him.

*

Re: the book- I too don't know if it's too late for that as too much time's passed. If anything, I'm most interested in that post Woodstock-'71 period during the recording of Riot and the legendary Sly/Larry feud.

*

Lastly, there used to be a guy on the internet about 20 years ago that was able to talk with a lotta of Family Stone/Little Sister members and even went to visit Sly a few times. I recall his 1st name being Jon and that's all. Anyway, I hope that they got him for the book as he may be able to fill in a few missing gaps in Sly's story...

Thanks for sharing the article. I've read many books,articles, and interviews on Sly & the Family Stone throughout the years but they still remain a fascinating subject. I'm a BIG fan of Sly and everyone associated with the act BUT sometimes the whole story really gets me down, especially Sly's descent into stupifying drug use and his treatment of his bandmates.

Sly telling his story is probably as laughable as Chaka telling her story: HOW IN THE FUCK COULD THEY REMEMBER ANYTHING AFTER ALL THE DRUGS??!

I agree with Trivial. Sly's perfect time for a come back would have been back in the 90's. 70's funk and R&B was cool again and he could have rode that wave for awhile. I didn't know that he was still messing around with drugs in 2019. I thought that he was doing well when he won that lawsuit about his unpaid royalties. Sad to read that he's in really poor shape.

TrivialPursuit said:

Not sorry - but Sly's time is over. He had so many chances to do something. He says he always lived the life he wanted to live. I find that to be quite an overbuffing of him just being a fucking drug addict for the past forty years. He's been on drugs longer than he was ever a popular musician with a following. The ghostwriter was correct as with any druggie: Drugs are the priority. Nothing else ever matters. They can say it does, they can pretend they love this or care about that, but they don't.

Drugs. Are. Everything. And they're only fooling themselves and the fools around them if they believe otherwise. Hell, it takes a good year to get one's brain to normal again, get the toxicity out of it, to get a new baseline. Now he suddenly gets sober for what, a few months or something, and thinks he can write a book?

Is his book too little, too late? Eh, it's a book. Everyone's got one. Or will. Sly isn't an author. He's not a talk show host or something. He's a fucking musician. If he came back now, his audience base would this . that small. No Gen Z would give a shit about him, nor the Gen Y running the music business. No one stopped him from making music - as is his claim - except his dealers and himself.

Who is his audience now? What the heck is a book going to say about a few short years of a career? "Fifty five years ago I made 4 or 5 great albums. Then I became a doped up on smack ball sack who hasn't many any music or anything interesting in the past 50 years. Then end." That's barely a text, much less a book.

There's a line in the movie Arthur, where a guy (the actor later played the vice principle in The Breakfast Club, see's Arthur go into his father's office. He comments to Arthur's butler Hobson, "he gets all that money. Pays his family back by bein' a stinkin' drunk. It's enough to make you sick."

It’s almost as if he’s sitting up like some noble elder musical statesmen humming, “I did it my way.”
No, you smoked your way through it, and it wasn’t even weed. You were on fucking crack for the better part of a century.

I suppose it's only fair to be mad at the addiction, not the person. They're a victim too. Drugs is the real villain here, not Sly. But at some point, well before you're fucking 80 years old, you have to stand up and say, "hey, I gotta do something else here." It's why I don't put the blame on Prince too much for his addiction. It was the pull of the drugs that kept him enslaved to it. It killed him. And frankly, it'll kill Sly, too. That's the worst part, that these geniuses in music just end up being another statistic and stereotype of a drugged out, dead rock star.

[Edited 10/6/23 12:54pm]

I disagree. I was a teen when he re-emerged at the Grammy's in 2006. This tome dedicated to his irrelevancy could've been written then as well--but people certainly seemed to give care in 2006, and they still care 17 years later or there wouldn't be articles like the one linked here.

Honestly Sly and the Family Stone and Sly Stone have always had substantial name recognition or clout. Probably moreso than Prince, who is the true obscuro among the pioneers and greats. You poll random people on the street they're probably more able to name off "Everday People" or "Family Affair" while Prince 99/100 aren't going to be able to tell you a song title other than "Purple Rain".

SPYZFAN1 said:

I agree with Trivial. Sly's perfect time for a come back would have been back in the 90's. 70's funk and R&B was cool again and he could have rode that wave for awhile. I didn't know that he was still messing around with drugs in 2019. I thought that he was doing well when he won that lawsuit about his unpaid royalties. Sad to read that he's in really poor shape.

He seems like he's doing better than ever?

Last Sly update he was literally living out of his car.

WhisperingDandelions said:

I disagree. I was a teen when he re-emerged at the Grammy's in 2006. This tome dedicated to his irrelevancy could've been written then as well--but people certainly seemed to give care in 2006, and they still care 17 years later or there wouldn't be articles like the one linked here.

Honestly Sly and the Family Stone and Sly Stone have always had substantial name recognition or clout. Probably moreso than Prince, who is the true obscuro among the pioneers and greats. You poll random people on the street they're probably more able to name off "Everday People" or "Family Affair" while Prince 99/100 aren't going to be able to tell you a song title other than "Purple Rain".

I'm not dismissing his legacy and influence on musicians. Not at all. I'm salty, not crazy. haha

Both are niche to a certain point, but Prince had a longer Top 40 career than Sly. People could name "Family Affair" or "Everyday People." Totally agree, but with Prince they'll at least get "1999," "Little Red Corvette," "When Doves Cry," "Purple Rain," "Kiss," maybe "Darling Nikki," "Raspberry Beret" and maybe "U Got The Look" if they dug in their brains a bit.

WhisperingDandelions said:

Honestly Sly and the Family Stone and Sly Stone have always had substantial name recognition or clout. Probably moreso than Prince, who is the true obscuro among the pioneers and greats. You poll random people on the street they're probably more able to name off "Everday People" or "Family Affair" while Prince 99/100 aren't going to be able to tell you a song title other than "Purple Rain".

Your kidding right? I'd bet my house you can't find anyone under 25 (that's not a musician) that has ANY idea who Sly Stone is. Prince is still very much in the cultural zeitgeist, he's referenced in current tv, movies and other media. His music is still played at sporting events weekly (if you don't hear lets go crazy at American Football games you don't go to games at all). I haven't heard a word about Sly except in deep dive articles in maybe 35 years.

As chance would have it, CBS Sunday Mornings did a profile on him today for his book. And as Sly would have it, he wasn't on camera, yet the interview was conducted in his house. His three children stood in for him.

Questlove was there since he's the one who is getting Sly's book out. It's a well rounded story.

George Clinton is on via Zoom. Sly looks old, and at 80 - he is. George looks like someone's low-key uncle, actually. haha

I'm no doctor and I'm not dissing mental health because I have my own to deal with: But I really feel that besides drugs, Sly has a mental health concern that is causing him to self-destruct, not go on camera, be difficult. It's stunted behavior, not that of a genius recluse. Prince was a genius, and sometimes a hermit, but there were still folks around him, and he still sat down for interviews from time to time. Sly almost just doesn't want to do music. Forget being famous, he doesn't even want to be looked at, much less have a conversation.

Quirky? Something more? We may never really have a real answer for that. It's okay.

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm no doctor and I'm not dissing mental health because I have my own to deal with: But I really feel that besides drugs, Sly has a mental health concern that is causing him to self-destruct, not go on camera, be difficult. It's stunted behavior, not that of a genius recluse. Prince was a genius, and sometimes a hermit, but there were still folks around him, and he still sat down for interviews from time to time. Sly almost just doesn't want to do music. Forget being famous, he doesn't even want to be looked at, much less have a conversation.

Quirky? Something more? We may never really have a real answer for that. It's okay.

I think your spot on in your assesment and opinion.

Thanks for the article link! Curious to hear all of the music he's been making for decades...

Like a lot of other of my favorite artists, my love for the music is stronger than my love for the person who made it.

Ego, money and drugs really can make a person lose themselves.





This got my attention from the article as it felt a little out of place compared to the Sunday morning CBS interview.

"The Bel Air mansion in which There’s a Riot Goin’ On was recorded – a notorious hub of drugs and guns, its grimly decadent mood encapsulated by an incident in which Stone’s pet pitbull savaged his pet monkey to death, then had sex with its corpse in front of the horrified residents "

[Edited 10/8/23 12:28pm]

BalladofPeterParker said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Honestly Sly and the Family Stone and Sly Stone have always had substantial name recognition or clout. Probably moreso than Prince, who is the true obscuro among the pioneers and greats. You poll random people on the street they're probably more able to name off "Everday People" or "Family Affair" while Prince 99/100 aren't going to be able to tell you a song title other than "Purple Rain".

Your kidding right? I'd bet my house you can't find anyone under 25 (that's not a musician) that has ANY idea who Sly Stone is. Prince is still very much in the cultural zeitgeist, he's referenced in current tv, movies and other media. His music is still played at sporting events weekly (if you don't hear lets go crazy at American Football games you don't go to games at all). I haven't heard a word about Sly except in deep dive articles in maybe 35 years.

Interesting. Not an NFL guy, but NBA certainly ain't playing him.

"Partyman" did make that MJ ESPN/Netflix doc everyone was into, so maybe you're onto something.

I got young siblings and they got significant others and friends etc. They would all be able to name Prince better than Sly, sure, but they're not gonna be able to name or recongize more than 1 or 2 Prince songs max.

Whereas if I put on "Thank You (Falletinmebemicelfagin)" they know the bassline from modern commercials and stuff. They'd know "Everyday People" and "Family Affair" as well.


Sly's a more obscuro name, Prince has more obscuro "hits".

TrivialPursuit said:

As chance would have it, CBS Sunday Mornings did a profile on him today for his book. And as Sly would have it, he wasn't on camera, yet the interview was conducted in his house. His three children stood in for him.

Questlove was there since he's the one who is getting Sly's book out. It's a well rounded story.

George Clinton is on via Zoom. Sly looks old, and at 80 - he is. George looks like someone's low-key uncle, actually. haha

I'm no doctor and I'm not dissing mental health because I have my own to deal with: But I really feel that besides drugs, Sly has a mental health concern that is causing him to self-destruct, not go on camera, be difficult. It's stunted behavior, not that of a genius recluse. Prince was a genius, and sometimes a hermit, but there were still folks around him, and he still sat down for interviews from time to time. Sly almost just doesn't want to do music. Forget being famous, he doesn't even want to be looked at, much less have a conversation.

Quirky? Something more? We may never really have a real answer for that. It's okay.

oh yeah that's always been my read.

He was like a radio DJ, right?

I would imagine it would be an insane amount of pressure to be sort of considered like the Voice of a Generation basically as Sly was. Like, the funk pioneer, the poster child (pre drug abuse anyway) of not just the black experience but with the multiracial band and harmonious vibe of the material it was like the dream 1960s unified American experience.

And I'll add it had to have convoluted stuff when he went full drug addict recluse darkness--and that album became his most acclaimed album yet! Literally one of the most drug-addled dirges ever put to record is considered his masterpiece.

Like how is shown in the interview, no wonder he conflated his addiction with his genius, everyone was telling him his biggest self-sabotage is his artistic zenith, his career-defining triumph. Dude was trying to get rid the pressure, basically show up to work trashed to get fired: and it made him a bigger icon than ever. He probably would make the move for a hit right after a stranger would praise that album, like it was Popeye's spinach.

[Edited 10/8/23 18:01pm]

If you guys get a chance check out this documentary "Jimi & Sly: The Skin I'm in". It came out around 2000 and features some fantastic footage and interviews on Hendrix and Sly and what they went through and meant to their generation. I've seen it numerous times and I love it. It's very poignant in how it shows the disillusionment both men went through (especially Sly).

I HIGHLY recommend it. I've had a boot copy for years but I'm sure it's still floating around the internet somewhere.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Sly wasted decades but so what? Not like he was alone in taking drugs. Who knows how he got so addicted he never seemed to come out of it? Or still made it to 80? Thats a story in itself.

Old drug addicted guy lives to be 80. The end.

but how many other artists are you gonna look down on for being addicted? (im assuming part of your stance is out of anger)

i know the diff with sly and keith richards or iggy pop is that they pulled themselves out of it and sly didnt.

but tbh, maybe he knew he could never top what he did, he had changed, tastes had moved on, and he didnt know what to do. i dont actually care to hear what sly did in the intervening decades cos i doubt it would be that great, unless he did his own thing and ignored trends.

tbh i have no idea, id like to know more about why he didnt seek help. but theres so many musicians or actors etc who died from drug overdoses.

i cant rubbish them all cos of that.

i dont think his book is too late (though ofc it is), its never TOO late, he was a brilliant figure at one point, hes become a legend, a washed up one, but a legend no less, so the story is interesting.

and obv, no sly = no prince.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

but how many other artists are you gonna look down on for being addicted?

It's obvious it's more than about being addicted. The addiction has ruined his musicianship and his career, and his life. Dude was in a car or trailer a decade ago or so? Now - you can't even recognize him. I sure don't need to see him try and perform or sing.

Sly "pulled himself out of it" probably 2 or 3 years before he'll die. Prince didn't quite make it but Prince kept making music because he understood the assignment. Sly understood 1001 ways to do smack and have your everything go up in smoke.

book review -

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/09/thank-you-falettinme-be-mice-elf-agin-by-sly-stone-review-euphoric-expression-and-drug-crazed-chaos

TrivialPursuit said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

but how many other artists are you gonna look down on for being addicted?

It's obvious it's more than about being addicted. The addiction has ruined his musicianship and his career, and his life. Dude was in a car or trailer a decade ago or so? Now - you can't even recognize him. I sure don't need to see him try and perform or sing.

Sly "pulled himself out of it" probably 2 or 3 years before he'll die. Prince didn't quite make it but Prince kept making music because he understood the assignment. Sly understood 1001 ways to do smack and have your everything go up in smoke.

sly might be musics greatest drug addict ever.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

sly might be musics greatest drug addict ever.

And there's your paperback version.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

TrivialPursuit said:

It's obvious it's more than about being addicted. The addiction has ruined his musicianship and his career, and his life. Dude was in a car or trailer a decade ago or so? Now - you can't even recognize him. I sure don't need to see him try and perform or sing.

Sly "pulled himself out of it" probably 2 or 3 years before he'll die. Prince didn't quite make it but Prince kept making music because he understood the assignment. Sly understood 1001 ways to do smack and have your everything go up in smoke.

sly might be musics greatest drug addict ever.

Charlie Parker has entered the chat.

BalladofPeterParker said:

charlie parker died very young in comparison to sly (who is STILL LIVING somehow)

most addicts in music have a kind of atonement/redemption arc (even if they never totally quit)

dont they?

it helps with the whole backstory that marketing ppl at record labels like too

like how whitney came back and scored some success later in her life/career IIRC

sly hasnt really had that

and he seems to have gone DECADES without quitting (id actually like to know the history, as in, did he quit ever? did he try rehab? did he get off it at any point? or did he just never stop using?)

Charlie Parker is probably the most influential and highly regarded jazz musician that ever lived. Unfortunately a big part of his legacy is the HUGE number of players that took drugs (heroin) to try to play like him. There's many idiots that still think that was the case.

https://nypost.com/2017/0...-a-genius/

[Edited 10/12/23 11:31am]

S2DG said:

Thanks for the article link! Curious to hear all of the music he's been making for decades...

.

I'm not. The few bits we've heard in recent times (i.e. past 20 years or so) were terrible. Dude lost his mojo in the mid-1970s.