Hey my fellow music fans ... need your opinions on this one. Why did Bad sell less than Thriller? What are your thoughts?

Because more people bought Thriller.

My thoughts:

• Thriller was a phenomenon and unlikely to be replicated

• People had slept on MJ until that album came out. They album and his star power was a surprise to people.

• It's a short album that makes you want more, so you play it on repeat

• Bad was overblown and trying too hard
• The beats were stronger and the ballads sappier. It didn't have as much of a mass appeal as Thiller

• Everyone knew who he was by the time Bad came out and there was no element of surprise

[Edited 3/3/22 12:24pm]

Super oversaturation of MJ in the public eye, even if it was 4 years after Thriller. And, after Thriller, there was nowhere to go BUT down. It's also a case of the mass consuming, fairweather public having gotten its "thrills" and moved on, as happens with everything in pop culture.

As a 16-year-old when Bad came out, I can also say that, for me, MJ just wasn't hip. That was just the opinion of a shallow teen, of course.

Exactly.The amazing success of Thriller is one of those magical things that happens only once in a lifetime.There was no way that Michael was ever gonna top it,saleswise.

iveivan said:

• Thriller was a phenomenon and unlikely to be replicated

iveivan said:

My thoughts:

• Thriller was a phenomenon and unlikely to be replicated

• People had slept on MJ until that album came out. They album and his star power was a surprise to people.

• It's a short album that makes you want more, so you play it on repeat

• Bad was overblown and trying too hard
• The beats were stronger and the ballads sappier. It didn't have as much of a mass appeal as Thiller

A few thoughts:

Bad was overblown. The sped-up nature of some of the songs, now recognizing that exists, makes a bit more squeemish to hear. I should take some of those tracks and slow them down like a half percent or one percent, maybe even pitch adjust it a half-step at most. See what it sounds like.

Also: By 1987, a lot of beats were stronger. Thriller, for all intents and purposes, was a yacht rock album. Someone mentioned how it and Toto's IV were almost sister albums, with IV getting the lesser/leftover tracks (despite the strong hits like "Rosanna," and "Africa").

But music was changing. I've said it before. 1987 was the time when big music and schmaltzy music came to the forefront. The big reverby sound of Taylor Dayne defined another five years of trending in music.

Duets like "(I've Had) The Time of my Life," "Waiting For A Star To Fall," "Baby I Love Your Ways/Freebird," "The Next Time I Fall," and "I Knew You Were Waiting (For Me)," had a cheesy factor to them.

So for MJ to kick off an album with "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" was sorta hitting when the iron was hot. It was genius since it was likely recorded a year before, if not more, but fit perfectly into a musical landscape that didn't yet exist.

So, yeah, it was overblown. But so was a lot of the top 100 songs in 1987 and 1988. Look at "Batdance" in 1989. Overblown. Two tempos, tons of samples, insanity on a 12". Great track, went to number one. But it struck when the iron was hot. Prince was going into overload in his production and tracking, writing, etc. Music was already reflecting that mentality for two years.

"Batdance" fit right in with the existing landscape. The difference is Prince lassoed his wagon to the existing caravan. MJ sorta created it a few years before. Both did great with it, though.

Was Bad trying too hard? Maybe. I think he was trying to shed a lot of image and preconceived notions about him. The good guy routine, the safe pop star. However, MJ's new face, and leather get up felt... forced. Trying too hard, as stated. No one, not ever, saw MJ as a tough guy. He could probably slap a motherfucker if he needed to, but he wasn't throwing blows. Marlon would kick his ass in his sleep.

You probably could cut songs like "Speed Demon," "Just Good Friends," and "Liberian Girl" to hone in a shorter, stronger album. And I love "Liberian Girl," but it feels unnecessary with other mid-tempo songs. I know it's unpopular to say, but "Streetwalker" was a strong song, for me, than "Another Part of Me." Let the latter, and the others mentioned, become B-sides.

^^Blah. Whatever. Bad is great as it is. Streetwalker was left off for a reason.

Yeah, it's mostly:

iveivan said:

My thoughts:

Thriller was a phenomenon and unlikely to be replicated

and

kevinpnb said:

It's also a case of the mass consuming, fairweather public having gotten its "thrills" and moved on, as happens with everything in pop culture.

Yeah. Fuck them. Bad was great and in some international territories, it was just as big as Thriller. It's mostly USA that dropped the ball.

When the video for "Bad" came out, i clearly remember my Grandma stating her opinion:

"I just don't like Michael's new image AT ALL. He looks so FAKE!"

So, the decline in albums sales are clearly a result of my Grandma's remarks.

Because the momentum had been building from 1978's Destiny and 1979's Off The Wall for 1982's Thriller. You always have to look at the album leading up to the big one.

Because Vainandy thought it was post-Whitney Houston style R&B and didn't buy it.

MickyDolenz said:

Because Vainandy thought it was post-Whitney Houston style R&B and didn't buy it.

Bad definitely had an overall more plastic sound than Thriller!

Cinny said:

Bad definitely had an overall more plastic sound than Thriller!

PatrickS77 said:

^^Blah. Whatever. Bad is great as it is. "Streetwalker" was left off for a reason.

I never said it was a terrible album. I played it every day when it came out. I got a copy when I was in the Navy in Philadelphia. I think I bought it at Tower Records somewhere in Philly.

I've stated often how I searched out the original pressing, rather than the subsequent pressings that substituted 7" remixes, the missing spoken-word intro for IJCSLY, etc. I found the vinyl a few short years ago and was quite happy to have the original album as it was released.

My comments about replacing songs was just theorizing. "Streetwalker" was left off because of Frank Dileo's fat ass, quite literally.

TrivialPursuit said:

MickyDolenz said:

1) It was overhyped.

2) It wasn't as good.

3) His image was a detriment.

4) Thriller's success was a fluke.

iveivan said:

• The beats were stronger and the ballads sappier. It didn't have as much of a mass appeal as Thriller

An album with 5 #1 Top 40 pop hits plus 2 other songs that reached the Top 11 didn't have mass appeal?

CynicKill said:

PJMcGee said:

CynicKill said:

1) It was overhyped.

2) It wasn't as good.

3) His image was a detriment.

4) Thriller's success was a fluke.

Also, Thriller had three hugely successful, game-changing videos. Impossible to top or even come close, really.

That too.

It was all new in 1983.

The videos just weren't as good.

And dare I bring up his reputation and image again...

Cinny said:

TrivialPursuit said:

The sped-up nature of some of the songs, now recognizing that exists, makes a bit more squeemish to hear. I should take some of those tracks and slow them down like a half percent or one percent, maybe even pitch adjust it a half-step at most. See what it sounds like.

And I'm gonna go speed up the outtakes!

And dare I say the title track is unbearable without the video. I mean it's almost unbearable WITH the video too. It just goes to show that Michael may have been very good at creating video ideas and dances, but holy hell was he bad at writing his own songs.

ThatWhiteDude said:

And dare I say the title track is unbearable without the video. I mean it's almost unbearable WITH the video too. It just goes to show that Michael may have been very good at creating video ideas and dances, but holy hell was he bad at writing his own songs.

Hey. No one comes to your job and knocks the dicks out of your mouth! You simmer down over there.

the incredible success of Thriller was sorta like the success of The Bee Gees/Saturday Night Fever.Remember in 1978 when that album was selling like hotcakes and the singles were all over the radio? This wasn't just a "hit album",it was a phenomenom.Same with Thriller.But this kinda stuff can't be repeated.It's a magical moment in time that can't be duplicated.

Bad was a disappointment for me when I heard it. Outakes like Fly Away and Streetwalker are better IMO than some songs that made it on Bad. I like "Destiny" and "Triumph" more than Bad.

[Edited 3/6/22 12:07pm]

People didn't buy Thriller because it was the best album ever made, they bought it because it was a cultural Milestone largely due to his ground-breaking musical videos and dance moves. The songs were fine enough and definitely catchy, but without the music videos and the moonwalk Thriller would have sold a fraction of the records it did. Thriller was basically a souvenir to rmeind you of the magical videos and dancing. Let's not forget that during that window of time there were several records that sold amazing amounts. That suggests people were in a record buying mood in ways they haven't been before or since. Bad came second and it was a pretty shitty song. The album wasn't as catchy. The thing I remember most about what people were saying about the Bad album when it came out? The garivity-defying dance move in Smooth Criminal. Again, it's his videos and dancing. The album are secondary whether people consciously percieve it or not.

PJMcGee said:

Agree, tho "Billie Jean" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" are great songs.

I remember hearing "Billie Jean" on American Bandstand the first time. I wasn't overly impressed. But when I heard "Beat It," I lost my mind. It appealed to a whiter audience, of which I am. The irony is I wasn't a rock fan per se. I was still listening to R&B and soul music. Disco, whatever. I was sorta coming out of a country phase (a la Urban Cowboy).

I realized later how much I enjoy when Black artists do a rock song. "Free Your Mind" by En Vogue, "Black Cat" and "What'll I Do" by Janet Jackson, "Let's Go Crazy," "Peach," "Endorphinmachine" by Prince... stuff like that. I loved it. So I think "Beat It" awakened that in me. It's one thing for Def Leppard to play "Women" or "Animal." Yet if hear "Black Cat," I'm gravitating toward that. I guess maybe I like the juxtaposition of a soulful voice over a harder edge sound.

I was obsessed with "ma ma se ma ma sa ma ma ma coo saa" back then. Man, I could've put that on a loop for a minute or two and been happy. I wish there'd been a longer version with some of that mixed into it, or made into a longer ending with the chant. I can almost hear a larger group of voices (choir-adjacent) chanting that in an extended version, lil' reverb, maybe some extra hand claps... shiiiiit.

I remember a few years prior on Out of the Blue by ELO, on "Jungle" the chorus went:

Chooka chooka, hoo la ley
Looka looka, koo la ley

So, I was already in the mode of weird chants like that in a song. "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" just fed into it for me.

[Edited 3/7/22 10:47am]

TrivialPursuit said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

And dare I say the title track is unbearable without the video. I mean it's almost unbearable WITH the video too. It just goes to show that Michael may have been very good at creating video ideas and dances, but holy hell was he bad at writing his own songs.

Hey. No one comes to your job and knocks the dicks out of your mouth! You simmer down over there.

ThatWhiteDude said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Hey. No one comes to your job and knocks the dicks out of your mouth! You simmer down over there.

Props on my favorite Nene meme.

TrivialPursuit said:

I was obsessed with "ma ma se ma ma sa ma ma ma coo saa" back then. Man, I could've put that on a loop for a minute or two and been happy. I wish there'd been a longer version with some of that mixed into it, or made into a longer ending with the chant.

The real crime is how that part of the song is always shortened for radio.