After talking to a friend, and our love of Maxwell and neo-soul in general. The statement sorta came up, that Sade was really a preamble to the neo-soul genre. We've often talked about how Janet's "Nasty" was arguably the first New Jack Swing song.

But for Sade - was she the real first neo-soul artist? You can put "Smooth Operator" or "The Sweetest Taboo" next to "Tyrone," "Brown Sugar," or "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)," and the lines are blurred, in that they all seem cut from the same smooth and sexy cloth.

Some note acts like Tony! Toni! Tone! and Terence Trent D'Arby as precursors; as well as folks like Jamiroquai, Soul II Soul, Lisa Stansfield, Zhane, Me'sell N'DegeO'cello. They were all out there before D'Angelo's Brown Sugar and Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite (which was out a year after D', but finished around the same time). Other folks like Macy Gray, Jill Scott, and Angie Stone dipped into the neo-soul pond as well, after the fact.

The genre had a great variety of folks. And while there were some late 80s and early 90s folks, noted above, I sorta feel like Sade was a cornerstone.

Thoughts? Is there anyone from the mid-80s that I'm missing maybe? (Besides Prince.)

Keith Sweat and Al B Sure

TrivialPursuit said:

After talking to a friend, and our love of Maxwell and neo-soul in general. The statement sorta came up, that Sade was really a preamble to the neo-soul genre. We've often talked about how Janet's "Nasty" was arguably the first New Jack Swing song.

But for Sade - was she the real first neo-soul artist? You can put "Smooth Operator" or "The Sweetest Taboo" next to "Tyrone," "Brown Sugar," or "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)," and the lines are blurred, in that they all seem cut from the same smooth and sexy cloth.

Some note acts like Tony! Toni! Tone! and Terence Trent D'Arby as precursors; as well as folks like Jamiroquai, Soul II Soul, Lisa Stansfield, Zhane, Me'sell N'DegeO'cello. They were all out there before D'Angelo's Brown Sugar and Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite (which was out a year after D', but finished around the same time). Other folks like Macy Gray, Jill Scott, and Angie Stone dipped into the neo-soul pond as well, after the fact.

The genre had a great variety of folks. And while there were some late 80s and early 90s folks, noted above, I sorta feel like Sade was a cornerstone.

Thoughts? Is there anyone from the mid-80s that I'm missing maybe? (Besides Prince.)

Yeah Sade was the first I would say. She had a diffeent style of soul that was more jazz and blues influenced like Anita Baker too.

paisleypark4 said:

Yeah Sade was the first I would say. She had a diffeent style of soul that was more jazz and blues influenced like Anita Baker too.

I'm glad you brought up Anita. I sorta thought about her, but something about her compared to Sade, both talented acts, seemed less neo-soul and more classic soul. So I left her name out of the mix. Plus, just cuz she's a tad...of a certain age... I'm not sure she'd sound right doing proper neo-soul in the mid 90s anyway. She kinda stayed in her line (and killed it).

Sade certainly is an influence, I would think

Some of the Acid Jazz acts in London also pointed the way to Neo Soul. Young Disciples, Snowboy, Brand New Heavies, James Taylor Quartet, Mica Paris, D*Note, ...

paisleypark4 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

After talking to a friend, and our love of Maxwell and neo-soul in general. The statement sorta came up, that Sade was really a preamble to the neo-soul genre. We've often talked about how Janet's "Nasty" was arguably the first New Jack Swing song.

But for Sade - was she the real first neo-soul artist? You can put "Smooth Operator" or "The Sweetest Taboo" next to "Tyrone," "Brown Sugar," or "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)," and the lines are blurred, in that they all seem cut from the same smooth and sexy cloth.

Some note acts like Tony! Toni! Tone! and Terence Trent D'Arby as precursors; as well as folks like Jamiroquai, Soul II Soul, Lisa Stansfield, Zhane, Me'sell N'DegeO'cello. They were all out there before D'Angelo's Brown Sugar and Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite (which was out a year after D', but finished around the same time). Other folks like Macy Gray, Jill Scott, and Angie Stone dipped into the neo-soul pond as well, after the fact.

The genre had a great variety of folks. And while there were some late 80s and early 90s folks, noted above, I sorta feel like Sade was a cornerstone.

Thoughts? Is there anyone from the mid-80s that I'm missing maybe? (Besides Prince.)

Yeah Sade was the first I would say. She had a diffeent style of soul that was more jazz and blues influenced like Anita Baker too.

Oh my God, I would definitely say Anita Faker was the first I heard. She was even more boring than Shitney Houston who was more crossover adult contemporary....but hey....when you kill funk, it opens up the doors for something even more boring than adult contemporary to take over also.

.

I don't agree about Sade though. When I hear stuff like "Is It A Crime" or "Your Love Is King", I think of sexy jazzy after midnight stuff from the 1970s like "Moondance" and "Midnight At The Oasis". I envision a beautiful high class call girl meeting her clients in a lounge after midnight before going to a high class hotel. When I hear Anita Faker, I envision a woman in a full cut dress, below the knees, possibly homemade, meeting men a church socials and inviting them over for Sunday dinner with her whole family while watching the kids run around and play in the back yard..... Oh, and I almost forgot, and if you went through her record collection, you probably wouldn't find any funk, disco, rock, or fun type of music whatsoever.

vainandy said:

I don't agree about Sade though. When I hear stuff like "Is It A Crime" or "Your Love Is King", I think of sexy jazzy after midnight stuff from the 1970s like "Moondance" and "Midnight At The Oasis".

I used to see Sade put in the "sophistipop" category with others like Swing Out Sister, Basia, Everything But The Girl, Blow Monkeys, etc. That originated with 1960s acts like The 5th Dimension, Dionne Warwick, Burt Bacharach, & Rotary Connection. I think Sade (& the 1990s "acid jazz" groups) have more in common with 1970s smooth jazz/soul jazz than neo-soul. Like the stuff on CTI Records in the late 1960s through to the 1970s & acts like The Blackbyrds, Roy Ayers, Pleasure, & early Al Jarreau.

jazzz said:

. Lenny Kravitz (It ain't over till it's over)? .

This seemed wrong when I was flickin' through the thread, but I think it actually carved a lane for nostaligic soul music (Tony Toni Tone, Me'Shell) to thrive.

vainandy said:

paisleypark4 said:

Yeah Sade was the first I would say. She had a diffeent style of soul that was more jazz and blues influenced like Anita Baker too.

Oh my God, I would definitely say Anita Faker was the first I heard. She was even more boring than Shitney Houston who was more crossover adult contemporary....but hey....when you kill funk, it opens up the doors for something even more boring than adult contemporary to take over also.

.

I don't agree about Sade though. When I hear stuff like "Is It A Crime" or "Your Love Is King", I think of sexy jazzy after midnight stuff from the 1970s like "Moondance" and "Midnight At The Oasis". I envision a beautiful high class call girl meeting her clients in a lounge after midnight before going to a high class hotel. When I hear Anita Faker, I envision a woman in a full cut dress, below the knees, possibly homemade, meeting men a church socials and inviting them over for Sunday dinner with her whole family while watching the kids run around and play in the back yard..... Oh, and I almost forgot, and if you went through her record collection, you probably wouldn't find any funk, disco, rock, or fun type of music whatsoever.

I only like a handful of songs by her but I could never listen to a whole album.

Sweetest Taboo

Nothing Can Come Between Us

No Ordinary Love

But those songs would work well just as a slow cut inbetween the fast songs...not when ALL of the songs are slow. Growing up she might have been the first time I heard something jazzy being beloved by all groups of people

MickyDolenz said:

I used to see Sade put in the "sophistipop" category with others like Swing Out Sister, Basia, Everything But The Girl, Blow Monkeys, etc.

OMG I LOVE BASIA! That first record is just so good, front to back. I like the term Sophistipop. That's very much what some of those acts are, like Basia, Blow Monkeys, Swing Out Sister, Lisa Stansfield, Johnny Hates Jazz, etc.

Mindbells9 said:

I've always felt like "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" was the first neo-soul song.

I've heard that argument before, but I do think Sade was on track for it well before TBODP came out. But, on the other side of that, had the high end of the song been intact, it could've been a leading contender.

It was that chick, started with C, Cherie or Chantelle something, I can't remember.

My picks for precursors to neo-soul:

.

1. Sade

2. Prince [some tracks from the Parade & SOTT era]

3. Tony Toni Tone

4. Tracy Chapman [?!?]

Mindbells9 said:

I've always felt like "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" was the first neo-soul song.

.

THAT^ and Slow Love.

Cinny said:

Cinny said:

donnyenglish said:

Digable Planets

Uhhh, the hip-hop band whose first album didn't come out until two years before D'Angelo's first record?

Nope.

TrivialPursuit said:

donnyenglish said:

Digable Planets

Uhhh, the hip-hop band whose first album didn't come out until two years before D'Angelo's first record?

Nope.

http://hiphopandpolitics....e-planets/

Lots of people who were listening to it at the time felt like their jazz fusion r&b sound was the precursor to neo soul.

jazzz said:

donnyenglish said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Uhhh, the hip-hop band whose first album didn't come out until two years before D'Angelo's first record?

Nope.

http://hiphopandpolitics....e-planets/

Lots of people who were listening to it at the time felt like their jazz fusion r&b sound was the precursor to neo soul.

Yet Sade was out a decade before them. Ergo my post. The roots go a bit further back. Digiable was just in the line of those influenced and who influenced others.

SantanaMaitreya said:

jazzz said:

. Lenny Kravitz (It ain't over till it's over)? .

No. Both him and TTD were way too much into rock music to pave the way for neo soul. And It Ain't Over has more of a 60s feel. And this is also the reason why I liked Erykah Badu and Maxwell and D'Angelo at first, but got tired of them pretty quickly: it's all slow soul music, in other words, more of the same.

Yeah, I'd agree. They had songs, it wasn't their overall aesthetic, especially Kravitz who is a rocker.

alphastreet said:

What about tony rich?

There were people before him.

TrivialPursuit said: