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Thread started 08/24/21 12:00pm

CynicKill

How Can Such A Simple Song Have SO Many Songwriters?

I'm not being funny but it seems like with so many writers a song would be either more complex and sophistocated or a total mess. But songs like these are so simple that I struugle to see how so many songwriters are warranted.

Granted I'm not a seasoned songwriter, but I can see the arranger getting a credit. And if the people actually singing wrote their own parts. Lastly the producer probably added composition to the final track.

Also I don't believe these tracks were sampled either so there are no original songwriters added to the list.

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Stay

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The Kid LAROI, Justin Bie... - YouTube

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Songwriter(s)

Peaches

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Justin Bieber - Peaches f... - YouTube>

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Songwriter(s)

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Reply #1 posted 08/24/21 12:42pm

Empress

CynicKill said:

I'm not being funny but it seems like with so many writers a song would be either more complex and sophistocated or a total mess. But songs like these are so simple that I struugle to see how so many songwriters are warranted.

Granted I'm not a seasoned songwriter, but I can see the arranger getting a credit. And if the people actually singing wrote their own parts. Lastly the producer probably added composition to the final track.

Also I don't believe these tracks were sampled either so there are no original songwriters added to the list.

>

Stay

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQF2YmvgbG6CNyU5326qPLnUc8938I_LQg5KNhMl5yvr0Jz8-9Zdx76OWqZNKarlcKvAM&usqp=CAU

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The Kid LAROI, Justin Bie... - YouTube

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Songwriter(s)

Peaches

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmll7JmAPBvOBmlZ8qoy4GCXqTSpsgmo_tKNhvq3_SYDXXnt_zsuAVBvFwlVihHCLfnes&usqp=CAU

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Justin Bieber - Peaches f... - YouTube>

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Songwriter(s)

Great question. I think one of the reasons is royalties. Even if you add one line or word, you will get a writing credit and royalties. The other reason is most of these people aren't really songwriters. Most of them don't have a clue, so they have to collaborate with many just to complete a song. Very sad really, especially for the real talented writers out there that barely get noticed.

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Reply #2 posted 08/24/21 11:05pm

TrivialPursuit

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Look at the credits for a lame ass song like "Run The World" by Beyonce, and something complex like "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen.

"Run The World (Girls)"

Afrojack – writing

Diplo – writing

Jordan "DJ Swivel" Young – recording

Serban Ghenea – mixing

John Hanes – mix engineering

Beyoncé Knowles – vocals, writing, production

The Dream - writing, production

Vybz Kartel – writing

Phil Seaford – mixing assistance

Switch – writing, production

Shea Taylor – co-production

Pat Thrall – recording

Pete Wolford – mix engineering assistance


"Bohemian Rhapsody"

Written by Freddie Mercury

Produced by Roy Thomas Baker, Queen

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #3 posted 08/25/21 3:28am

EmmaMcG

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There are a few different reasons why a lot of modern pop songs have so many credited songwriters and producers. A lot of it is contractual. Take, for example, Justin Bieber. You may notice his name listed among the songwriters on one of his tracks. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's contributed anything to the songwriting process though. A lot of modern popstars have it written into their contracts that they receive songwriting credits, and therefore some small royalty payments from the song.

As for all the other names listed as songwriters, some of that can be contractual too. Sometimes its more of a promotional thing like if a producer makes a big hit he's then paid to put his name on another song so it can be promoted as having been produced by the same person who produced the big hit. He may have to do some (very) minimal work or even just offer some advice to the main producer and that's enough to earn his fee and credit.

Another possible reason for so many names listed is that a lot of modern producers only know how to do one thing. I remember working with a semi-well known American producer from Michigan (specifically, a place called Ann Arbor) and he's a really talented guy. Plays multiple instruments, writes his own stuff, produces it himself etc. But his own music is rarely credited to just him. There's always another name or two listed in the liner notes under "produced by" or "written by". I asked him who these other people were because I'd never met them. He told me that after he gets a song to what I'd consider to be a finished state, he sends it to these other guys to put some finishing touches on it and get it ready for distribution. It never really sounds any different to me when they're done but he's got a better ear than I do for that kind of thing. And depending on what work these other guys do, sometimes they're given a co-producing credit.


So like I said, many reasons.
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Reply #4 posted 08/25/21 8:42am

StrangeButTrue

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From what I understand and I could be totally wrong, there are also "songwriting camps" where "hitmakers" work with undiscovered talent and pair up talent with other writers. This could be why there are so many writers on one song.

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Reply #5 posted 08/25/21 8:44am

StrangeButTrue

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TrivialPursuit said:

Look at the credits for a lame ass song like "Run The World" by Beyonce, and something complex like "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen.

"Run The World (Girls)"

Afrojack – writing

Diplo – writing

Jordan "DJ Swivel" Young – recording

Serban Ghenea – mixing

John Hanes – mix engineering

Beyoncé Knowles – vocals, writing, production

The Dream - writing, production

Vybz Kartel – writing

Phil Seaford – mixing assistance

Switch – writing, production

Shea Taylor – co-production

Pat Thrall – recording

Pete Wolford – mix engineering assistance


"Bohemian Rhapsody"

Written by Freddie Mercury

Produced by Roy Thomas Baker, Queen

.

One of the reasons Run The World (Girls) has so many credits is the song is literally a Major Lazer song with new lyrics "Pon De Floor".

.

if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
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Reply #6 posted 08/25/21 12:22pm

CynicKill

It reminds me of Beyonce's "Irreplaceable".

When it came out, depending on what time of day it was, it had a different writer.

First Beyonce said she wrote it.

Then Ne-Yo says he wrote it.

Come to find out the song has six writers.

The funny thing is no one says they co-wrote a song, giving off the impression that they wrote it themselves.

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Reply #7 posted 08/25/21 1:07pm

MickyDolenz

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Anybody can be credited on a song as long as they get registered at the copyright office. People have also declined credits for different reasons. Some bands give all the members credits, whether or not an individual member had anything to do with the songwriting. In the 1970s, James Brown gave his 2 daughters (who were in elementary school at the time) songwriting credits on some songs instead of himself to get around the taxman. On some pre-1970s jazz records, the bandleader often got sole credit, even if a sideman helped. Managers, promoters & record label people have added their name to songs. Radio DJs like Alan Freed asked for songwriting credits for playing the records, which if the song becomes a hit is way more money than straight payola that is a 1 time payment. Some artists give credits to relatives or friends to help them out financially. Elvis Presley never wrote songs, but Colonel Parker usually made sure that Elvis got a songwriting credit or half of the publishing. Dolly Parton turned down Parker's deal and Jerry Reed got around it with a trick.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #8 posted 08/25/21 3:41pm

TrivialPursuit

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CynicKill said:

It reminds me of Beyonce's "Irreplaceable".

When it came out, depending on what time of day it was, it had a different writer.

First Beyonce said she wrote it.

Then Ne-Yo says he wrote it.

Come to find out the song has six writers.

The funny thing is no one says they co-wrote a song, giving off the impression that they wrote it themselves.


That's standard fare for Beyonce, though. It was Ne-Yo who set Beyonce straight when she claimed on an award's show that she wrote it for all the girls, blah blah blah. Ne-Yo popped up and fixed that. Wikipedia sorta sums it up:

A controversy arose over the writing credits on "Irreplaceable". Ne-Yo told MTV: "Apparently Beyoncé was at a show somewhere and right before the song came on she said, 'I wrote this for all my ladies' and then the song came on ... The song is a co-write. I wrote the lyrics, I wrote all the lyrics. Beyoncé helped me with the melodies and the harmonies and the vocal arrangement and that makes it a co-write. Meaning my contribution and her contribution made that song what it is."[11] In 2011, Ne-Yo said that he wrote the song for himself, but thought that it would be better suited for Beyoncé.[12]



But six songwriters for that?!

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #9 posted 08/25/21 3:43pm

TrivialPursuit

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StrangeButTrue said:

One of the reasons "Run The World (Girls)" has so many credits is the song is literally a Major Lazer song with new lyrics "Pon De Floor".


Yeah, and while a sample is fine here and there, to utterly depend on it for a song is nothing short of a glaring example of lack of talent. Same with "Bootylicious." What is it with a Stevie Nicks sample?

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #10 posted 08/30/21 11:26pm

JoeyC

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TrivialPursuit said:

Look at the credits for a lame ass song like "Run The World" by Beyonce, and something complex like "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen.

"Run The World (Girls)"

Afrojack – writing

Diplo – writing

Jordan "DJ Swivel" Young – recording

Serban Ghenea – mixing

John Hanes – mix engineering

Beyoncé Knowles – vocals, writing, production

The Dream - writing, production

Vybz Kartel – writing

Phil Seaford – mixing assistance

Switch – writing, production

Shea Taylor – co-production

Pat Thrall – recording

Pete Wolford – mix engineering assistance


"Bohemian Rhapsody"

Written by Freddie Mercury

Produced by Roy Thomas Baker, Queen

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Reply #11 posted 09/02/21 3:22pm

CynicKill

Kanye seems to be another victim.

Looking through his album credits (Donda) it looks like every song has a ton of songwriters and producers.

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Reply #12 posted 09/04/21 3:21am

BlaqueKnight

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I know Charlie Puth and Cashmere Cat are producers. Don't know the rest of them. Must be a money thing. Every song Puth has written for himself is better than this.

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Reply #13 posted 09/04/21 4:50am

lastdecember

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EmmaMcG said:

There are a few different reasons why a lot of modern pop songs have so many credited songwriters and producers. A lot of it is contractual. Take, for example, Justin Bieber. You may notice his name listed among the songwriters on one of his tracks. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's contributed anything to the songwriting process though. A lot of modern popstars have it written into their contracts that they receive songwriting credits, and therefore some small royalty payments from the song. As for all the other names listed as songwriters, some of that can be contractual too. Sometimes its more of a promotional thing like if a producer makes a big hit he's then paid to put his name on another song so it can be promoted as having been produced by the same person who produced the big hit. He may have to do some (very) minimal work or even just offer some advice to the main producer and that's enough to earn his fee and credit. Another possible reason for so many names listed is that a lot of modern producers only know how to do one thing. I remember working with a semi-well known American producer from Michigan (specifically, a place called Ann Arbor) and he's a really talented guy. Plays multiple instruments, writes his own stuff, produces it himself etc. But his own music is rarely credited to just him. There's always another name or two listed in the liner notes under "produced by" or "written by". I asked him who these other people were because I'd never met them. He told me that after he gets a song to what I'd consider to be a finished state, he sends it to these other guys to put some finishing touches on it and get it ready for distribution. It never really sounds any different to me when they're done but he's got a better ear than I do for that kind of thing. And depending on what work these other guys do, sometimes they're given a co-producing credit. So like I said, many reasons.

Exactly today it is rare to even play on your record, so there are people who are writing or crafting tracks, someone can be listed as a writer because they wrote the BASS HOOK or if something is sampled now there is no getting around that like back in the day where sampling folks thought they didnt have to give credit, now everything is watched. So you also will have those writers listed, and yes artists of today have it where they are listed top billing even if they contributed nothing more than a line or a chorus or a tilte or in some cases nothing at all. SO rarely dont even listen to mainstream stuff but if I do I glance at the writers, if I see more than two, I have no use for it pretty much.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #14 posted 09/29/21 4:02pm

CynicKill

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