BOTDF was released to promote the Ghosts movie that eventually never happened to be released, and to promote History tour and the former album with terrible remixes nobody cared- besides History which was a hit in Europe, but I think the original track would have done better commercially.

What if BOTDF had like ten tracks, what would be your tracklist?
With songs existing already of course.

Mine :

1. BOTDF
2. Morphine
3. Superfly Sister
4. Ghosts
5. Monkey Business
6. If You Don't Love Me
7. She Got It
8. Do You Know Where Your Children Are? ( the version with Jesse Johnson on guitar that leaked in 2010)
9. In The Back ( the unreleased version with Billy Preston on synths and with true lyrics!)
10. Is it Scary.

And to promote History a bit :

11. Scream Louder ( an MJ solo of the song)
12. 2 Bad ( the Ghosts version)
13. A shorter version of what History remix was, cutting a lot of the intro and outro.
14. A TDCA remix with the choirs Immortal outro ( which was supposed to be one alternate mix) followed by the Olodum Drums
https://youtu.be/rBo8ZHfzo5Y
15. A long medley of hits a la the Purple Medley

Edit : how come I forgot :
16. Smile alternate stripped version, such as this :
https://youtu.be/R9nquX8Jb8w
[Edited 5/28/21 22:26pm]

What do you mean the Ghosts movie wasn't released?
It was released on vcd and was broadcast on VH1 a few times.

Great track list,I would throw in a remix or alternate recording of "Little Susie".It is already haunting but I would make it sound even more scary or maybe a MJ solo recording of "Torture"
[Edited 5/28/21 13:34pm]
[Edited 5/28/21 13:35pm]

Phase3 said:

Still as of today, Ghosts is not available on even dvd, and never was.
Ut was available for a short limited time in VHS in France and in UK.
It was never shown in theaters, beside in some coupled with an obscure B movie.

It was never widely released and shown, especially in the US.
What a waste, for a 10 millions dollars video.

You know goddamn well Ghosts was released.

Here are the things you're incorrect about, and there are many:

Michael Jackson's Ghosts was released on VHS, Video CD, and Laserdisk - all internationally.

It was screened at the Cannes Film Festival in 1997 in a theater.

Thinner, the movie was coupled with in some areas, isn't a b-movie. It's a Richard Bachman novel that finally hit the screen in theaters.
The video has also been available on MJ's YouTube channel, mostly around halloween.

...all ways it's been released.

Also as noted by wikipedia, "In December 1997, towards the end of promotion for Michael Jackson's remix album Blood on the Dance Floor, a Deluxe Collector Box Set of Ghosts was released only in Europe. The box set included a VHS release of Jackson's Ghosts mini-movie on home video and his Blood on the Dance Floor album on CD, as well as a CD maxi single named the Limited Edition Minimax CD. 'On the Line' was the first track on this single."

ANYWAY... if you hate the album full of horrible remixes so much, why bother whittling it down at all?

Just because it's not in the United States, doesn't mean it wasn't released. Shit, by that "logic," 20Ten wasn't released either.

PS, it cost $15M, not $10M.

Ghosts was released you silly rabbit!

BOTDF is my favorite MJ album, along with History.

Ghosts received a very LIMITED release.
It is still not available on dvd, and NEVER was, not talking blu ray.
It was NEVER available on digital formats, not even officially available on streaming platforms. Besides for 3 days at Halloween 2020 on YouTube (!) And without the making-of.

It was screened ONE time in Cannes, in front of movie professionals who didn't care, and just come here for the show.
It was broadcasted ONE time in France in a cable channel.

It was then screened in a few selected theaters in a few town in the US, at selected screenings, paired with an obscure B-movie ( I m a fan ok King, and I love the book) that has 15 % on Rotten Tomatoes and was too never released on dvd.

Ghosts was NEVER used as a promotional tool in the US, never had airplay on MTV, it was completely wasted and never had the exposure it deserved.

Ghosts was released in a few countries, NOT internationally, for a limited time only.
The Ghosts boxset with On The Line was released officially only in France and UK.
Wake up, it s been more than 20 years Ghosts isn't available anymore.

Ghosts 1996 budget at the time was 10 millions, with inflated numbers, now at more than 15 millions.
Not counting the money put on the 1993 version.
[Edited 5/28/21 22:15pm]

Not MTV,but Ghosts did receive plenty of airplay on VH1
For the life of me I can't understand how some say "Blood on the dance floor" is a album.
It's really 5 new tracks plus a bunch of lame remixes
I look it as a maxi single because in my opinion only the first 5 tracks are worth listening to.
[Edited 5/28/21 23:07pm]

Phase3 said:

VH1 US?
The 39 minutes Ghosts had "plenty" Of airplay on VH1 US? Really?


5 tracks with 28 minutes of music, Dirty Mind had 30 minutes.
So Dirty Mind was not an album?

RODSERLING said:

Maybe not plenty but I know I saw it on VH1 about 5 times back in 2001 or so.
Dirty mind,regardless of the length is a album of 9 NEW songs.
BOTDF is IDK,12 tracks? With 5 new songs and 7 remixes of songs already been released.
Dirty mind is a album and it is a great one
But j agree with you about ghosts needed a stand alone release now days.A DVD or Blu-ray would be sweet.
[Edited 5/29/21 0:55am]

Phase3 said:

Phase3 said:

Dirty Mind is 8 track. News is 4 tracks, if you go that way.
Nashville Skyline from Bob Dylan is only 27 minutes lenght, and it s an album.
Technically, the border between an EP amd an album is the length of 25 minutes.

If you isolate the 5 new tracks, and they are no separated by remixes by the way, you have a new album.
But for sure, MJ should have balanced more with at least 7 new tracks, and like 8 remixes, or like my tracklist would have been more clever.

It s just that MJ wanted to release and promote the Ghosts movie, nit History.
But like History sales were low and that there was an European tour, and that a maxi-EP would be too cheap to make money, they fill the CD with remixes.

Technically, Scream Louder is a new track though.

Ghosts didn't have the exposure MJ wanted, instead Ghosts was only the B side of History.
The video should have been a new standard in quality, the Thriller of the 90's. But it was merely ignored.

MJ did the project with his own money, so Sony didn't care and that wasn't financially worth to recoup their costs to distribute it widely.

For your information, the definition of an EP :

In the United Kingdom, the Official Chart Company defines a boundary between EP and album classification at 25 minutes of maximum length and no more than four tracks (not counting alternative versions of featured songs, if present)

So, with 28 minutes and 5 new tracks, BOTDF is of course an album.

RODSERLING said:

Barely

alphastreet said:

Ghosts was released you silly rabbit!

Chiiile, he's gonna argue with you for the sake of it. Letitgo. (You and I both know better.)

TrivialPursuit said:

Yeah you’re right

TrivialPursuit said:

Ok : how did it do on box office then? Since it was released?
And where can I buy it on dvd?
Where can I stream it officially?
Thanks

I inform you that :
A version of Ghosts, not the final version, that was shown only at Cannes ONE time, was paired with Thinner in 10 ( TEN) theaters for the week of Halloween.

Ghosts was never released separately on VHS, until the BOTDF box-set, which was officially released only in France amd in UK ( then maybe distributed elsewhere off the hook).
Source :

https://p8.storage.canalb...3707_o.jpg

That's not what MJ intented at all when he put all that money in it.
Due to contractual reasons, MJ was never able to release Ghosts by himself, and the estate still can't, in case you didn't know.

I m glad to have you learn something today
[Edited 5/30/21 0:00am]

RODSERLING said:

So I guess "3 chains o' gold" was never released?
Because you can't stream it officially online and it's not on DVD..but I did see it for sale in a video store once

Phase3 said:

RELEASED ON THEATERS, that was MJ s plan. MJ wanted Ghosts to have a true WIDE release, on theaters and home video. That never happened.

3 chains of gold was released on its own in VHS. Never happened for Ghosts. It was a "bonus" On BOTDF special edition.

But yes, you could call 3COG a " Very limited release " Since it was hardly available on stores and for such a limited time.
It s a dead release since it s not even on dvd or streaming.

Phase3 said:

I edited the last post for more information.

RELEASED ON THEATERS, that was MJ s plan. MJ wanted Ghosts to have a true WIDE release, on theaters and home video. That never happened.

3 chains of gold was released on its own in VHS. Never happened for Ghosts. It was a "bonus" On BOTDF special edition.

But yes, you could call 3COG a " Very limited release " Since it was hardly available on stores and for such a limited time.
It s a dead release since it s not even on dvd or streaming.

The article I quoted says Ghosts was seen by " Hundred of americans" With Thinner.
[Edited 5/30/21 0:10am]

RODSERLING said:

But I have seen Ghosts for sale officially on Amazon in VCD format but like 3 chains film,I believe it is out of print.

I want a DVD of Ghosts remastered but I doubt his estate is working on it.We haven't had anything new since that "Halloween" theme album we got a few years ago.2018 I believe it was?

Have you seen the Ghosts outtake on YouTube that has Wednesday from the addams family in it?
[Edited 5/30/21 0:15am]

The "launching" Of the Ghosts we don't know, in only one New York City theater. It didn't register much revenue, fans weren't aware of it.

Id like to see this version though,before 2BAD had been replaced by Is it Scary

http://onmjfootsteps.cana...48464.html

Poor MJ on this one.
He wanted his movie to be released on theaters and home video on his own and failed.
He wanted the movie to promote 2BAD as the next single. Instead, Sony never released 2BAD, neither promoted it.

They trimmed 2BAD to put Ghosts on it, and eventually didn't promote the track but the remix of History instead!

Phase3 said:

The estate can't release it, the same way Sony couldn't release it at the time.
MJ put his money on it, Sony dIdn't. Sony refused to distribute it because MJ refused to share his benefits. Sony would have only distributed it and wouldn't have recouped their costs.


VCD is hardly an accessible format. This format never take out, it was too obscure.

I never saw Ghosts 1993 in its entirety, you're right, I have to see it!
Do you know if the original version shown with Thinner ( with remixes of 2 BAd exists?

The official MJ channel recently released the 2BAD video separately on YouTube. Good idea, but... It s a butcher job in the end. It was the occasion to see MJ perform on 2BAD and its remix as it was intented.

RODSERLING said:

8. Do You Know Where Your Children Are? ( the version with Jesse Johnson on guitar that leaked in 2010)

Steve Lukather is on that 2010 version, likely produced by John McClain.

RODSERLING said:

Don't know about the 2 BAD remixes

What do you think about Captain Eo?? I am sure that wasn't released in any home media format.That would be nice to see in great quality

One MJ film I never saw was "Miss Cast away",I think that was the title? I saw MJ on the front cover and thought to myself,wtf is MJ doing in a movie like that? It looked like a comedy film with him out of place.

To go back to the original question....

I think the song BOTDF is one of MJ's best. It should have been on History.

I never really cared for the rest, i think the drummachine takes over the new songs, its all too big for me to really enjoy it. It's like rhythm nation on steriods.

I don't think he should have released this album at all.

Release a prober remix album without new tracks.

Now it was very confusing.

The new tracks are also completely different than the house remixes of the older tracks.

Personally i think this album is a mess.

I like botdf album, but I also think it sounds outdated for 1997

nextedition said:

To go back to the original question....

I think the song BOTDF is one of MJ's best. It should have been on History.

I never really cared for the rest, i think the drummachine takes over the new songs, its all too big for me to really enjoy it. It's like rhythm nation on steriods.

I don't think he should have released this album at all.

Release a prober remix album without new tracks.

Now it was very confusing.

The new tracks are also completely different than the house remixes of the older tracks.

Personally i think this album is a mess.

Blood on the dancefloor is a great song. Is it scary? probably is one of the best songs he ever released. Ghosts shows how a song with similar lyrics can become something totally different. Morphine is something different. He never released a song like that before. And Superfly Sister, while not my favourite still has something going for it. I so would have wished that those songs would be the direction to go with Invincible. Sadly, it wasn't. But so glad, we got at least these. Scream louder is great, as it really is more of a new song than just a remix. The 2bad and HIStory remixes are quite enjoyable too. Don't care for the rest.

alphastreet said:

I like botdf album, but I also think it sounds outdated for 1997

I agree. Some of the production, not all, is dated. It is intriguing that Jam & Lewis used "Thank You" for the "Scream" remix (having already used it more heavily on "Rhythm Nation"). MJ did have a sound around that time. A little R&B, a little New Jack Swing, a little pop. BOTDF felt like a segue to Invincible, which - to me - is his weakest yet most overproduced album.

The remixes are 50/50 for me. I hate Wyclef's input on... whatever it is he did. I can't stand his voice or his "production" techniques (I use the terms loosely). Some of the remixes work, some don't. I tend to just listen to the first 6 songs. While "Scream" kicks off the remix section, it feels more like an ending for the new tracks. "Blood on the Dance Floor" is still a fucking killer riff. The remix can suck a dick.

I do like when a ballad is done with a 4 on the floor (eg: "Earth Song," "Stranger in Moscow" and even Toni Braxton's "Un-Break My Heart"). Those were good choices.

Interesting note I found:

• The LP version replaces "This Time Around (D.M. Radio Mix)" and "You Are Not Alone (Classic Club Mix)" with "This Time Around (D.M. Mad Club Mix)" (the version on the LP is different from the mix of the same title on the single release of the song) and "You Are Not Alone (Classic Club Edit)", respectively.

Interesting, I didn’t know the lp did that

I guess mj did have a signature sound on botdf that’s why I liked it though it sounded more like an early 90s album. I love that scream remix as well as the history mix

Phase3 said:

Is there an mj solo of torture????