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Thread started 01/20/21 1:19pm

JayCrawford

Man what a sad decline in Soul music

The world went from this talent man

https://m.youtube.com/wat...-kA3UtBj4M


To this absolute garbage


https://m.youtube.com/wat...pyZV8hTnto


RIP to soul music 1950s - 1984
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Reply #1 posted 01/21/21 4:37am

RJOrion

R.Kelly wasnt "soul music"...R.Kelly was Pop
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Reply #2 posted 01/21/21 1:01pm

TrivialPursuit

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RJOrion said:

R.Kelly wasnt "soul music"...R.Kelly was Pop


He was R&B, a new R&B in the 90s. Let me explain:

I sorta feel like R&B and pop really became more divided (just vastly different) in the 90s. In the 80s, it wasn't unusual to consider MJ or Prince or even New Edition on the radio next to White Snake, Van Halen, or Motley Crue.

But in the 90s? Metal sorta disappeared and grunge showed up. R&B and pop music all went on very different paths. More and more R&B songs had a rapper on them, I sorta think Mariah made that a trend. Although you have moments like "Walk This Way" which sorta made people sit up in their seats. But pop and R&B went their own ways in the 90s. Pop was gentrified because by 1998 you had groups like Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, NSync, Backstreet Boys, O-Town, 98 Degrees etc come to the forefront. Of course there are minor exceptions.

That said, R. Kelly sorta delved deep and redefined R&B. A lot of acts took his lead and made music very much like this. Wasn't he the "king of R&B" or something? I never dug his stuff, at all (except that "Gotham City" song, for a hot minute), but his influence went wide.

Music comes and goes in ebbs and flows. You can look back at disco being a reaction to war/protest music of the 60s and into the 70s, and the yacht rock of the day. Punk was a reaction to disco. New wave was a redefining of pop and borrowed a lot from reggae (same with ska later, which hadn punk roots). Metal was a reaction to pop and new wave. That big open echoy Taylor Dayne type music of the late 80s was a calling to metal to GTFO. Then grunge showed up and kicked all of its ass. Pop struggled to find new footing in part of the 90s. Then the boy bands and girl pop acts showed up and grunge sorta faded a bit. "Decline" is an opinion. The charts opinion, based on sales, said something very different. Don't like 90s R&B? Don't fucking listen to it. I still play TLC records, as much as I'll play a Taylor Dayne album or Dr. Feelgood from Motley Crue. Taste is relative, not fact.

I'm not saying any one genre killed a previous one. I am saying music goes in waves, albeit trends or whatever. So, to think R. Kelly did something different and people jumped on that isn't far-fetched.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #3 posted 01/21/21 1:25pm

RJOrion

TrivialPursuit said:



RJOrion said:


R.Kelly wasnt "soul music"...R.Kelly was Pop


He was R&B, a new R&B in the 90s. Let me explain:

I sorta feel like R&B and pop really became more divided (just vastly different) in the 90s. In the 80s, it wasn't unusual to consider MJ or Prince or even New Edition on the radio next to White Snake, Van Halen, or Motley Crue.

But in the 90s? Metal sorta disappeared and grunge showed up. R&B and pop music all went on very different paths. More and more R&B songs had a rapper on them, I sorta think Mariah made that a trend. Although you have moments like "Walk This Way" which sorta made people sit up in their seats. But pop and R&B went their own ways in the 90s. Pop was gentrified because by 1998 you had groups like Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, NSync, Backstreet Boys, O-Town, 98 Degrees etc come to the forefront. Of course there are minor exceptions.

That said, R. Kelly sorta delved deep and redefined R&B. A lot of acts took his lead and made music very much like this. Wasn't he the "king of R&B" or something? I never dug his stuff, at all (except that "Gotham City" song, for a hot minute), but his influence went wide.

Music comes and goes in ebbs and flows. You can look back at disco being a reaction to war/protest music of the 60s and into the 70s, and the yacht rock of the day. Punk was a reaction to disco. New wave was a redefining of pop and borrowed a lot from reggae (same with ska later, which hadn punk roots). Metal was a reaction to pop and new wave. That big open echoy Taylor Dayne type music of the late 80s was a calling to metal to GTFO. Then grunge showed up and kicked all of its ass. Pop struggled to find new footing in part of the 90s. Then the boy bands and girl pop acts showed up and grunge sorta faded a bit. "Decline" is an opinion. The charts opinion, based on sales, said something very different. Don't like 90s R&B? Don't fucking listen to it. I still play TLC records, as much as I'll play a Taylor Dayne album or Dr. Feelgood from Motley Crue. Taste is relative, not fact.

I'm not saying any one genre killed a previous one. I am saying music goes in waves, albeit trends or whatever. So, to think R. Kelly did something different and people jumped on that isn't far-fetched.



R.Kelly was marketed to the same people (teenagers and young adults) that the boy bands and girl bands like B2K, Immature, 3LW, Destiny's Child, New Edition, etc were.. thats pop music, not soul music, like the OP mentioned... it may be R&B flavored pop...but its still popular music...Michael Jackson made R&B music too...and he was the king of POP...the line between r&b and pop was blurred decades ago...thats how we got to Bruno Mars and Adele and Sam Smith...there is no real R&B in the mainstream...and real "Soul" music disappeared years ago...only to resurface whenever someone like D'Angelo or Stokley Williams or Rapfael Saadiq feels compelled to give us something
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Reply #4 posted 01/21/21 1:27pm

namepeace

Soul music may have "declined" but again, we got spoiled. Used to be great soul music was only a flip of the radio station or television, or trip to the record store, away. Hasn't been that way for a long time. We're no longer spoon-fed quality music. We. Have. To. Look. For. It.

And it's there, though not in the volume it used to be.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #5 posted 01/21/21 3:34pm

onlyforaminute

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Personally I think it came down to the realization who profits more. Most of the "greats" got shafted in one way or another. The proceeding generations are following the profit versus the art.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #6 posted 01/21/21 7:23pm

looby

^^So true, the greats deserved so much more than they got. Compared to those of today's music world, the greats were definitely cheated and robbed......big time! The musicians back in the day were so talented, and created great music on nothing but the talent given them.

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Reply #7 posted 01/22/21 1:30am

WhisperingDand
elions

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"Bump 'N Grind" and early R. Kelly in general was New Jack Swing.

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Reply #8 posted 01/22/21 10:11am

2freaky4church
1

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What soul music?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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