nextedition said:

TonyVanDam said:

CAUTION TALE: The Whitney album is also responsible for why AND how some of Whitney's black audience booed the hell out of her at the now infamous 1988 Soul Train Music Awards.

In fairness, like I once told ex-org Vainandy [a notorious Whitney-hater!] years ago , all blame goes to record exec & Whitney mentor, Clive Davis. This dude wanted to make Whitney Houston a mainstream pop success so bad that he turn the poor woman into a chocolate cover valley girl!

[Edited 6/6/20 7:52am]

The blame goes to the public, that says your skin color determines what kind of music you should make.

Good thing artists like Prince & George Michael didn't "fall in line" with that foolishness.

lool said:

TrivialPursuit said:

So, has Whitney really had a great soulful album?

When Whitney turned in her first record, Clive told her to rerecord it because she sounded too black.

A few years earlier Clive once told Phyllis Hyman the same thing. To her credit, Phyllis didn't give a damn about a crossover success. She knew she was too soulful and proud of it!

Cinny said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I don't remember the booing anywhere.

HERE. The same night she returned his advances. I know it wasn't a genre that brought them together, but part of her attraction was Bobby's successes.

I'll say this much, Anita Baker deserved to win that night.

TonyVanDam said:

nextedition said:

The blame goes to the public, that says your skin color determines what kind of music you should make.

Good thing artists like Prince & George Michael didn't "fall in line" with that foolishness.

And as a note about award shows, remember when George Michael won over all those black artists? Quel scandale!

TrivialPursuit said:

TonyVanDam said:

Good thing artists like Prince & George Michael didn't "fall in line" with that foolishness.

And as a note about award shows, remember when George Michael won over all those black artists? Quel scandale!

If there was ever a moment to give George Michael every award, it was Faith.

Cinny said:

TrivialPursuit said:

And as a note about award shows, remember when George Michael won over all those black artists? Quel scandale!

If there was ever a moment to give George Michael every award, it was Faith.

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally. There are a few boring moments on it, but overall it really was a powerhouse of music. I always say every artist has their Thriller - that one album that becomes the peak of everything in their career. Prince had Purple Rain. Madonna's is probably Like A Prayer. Janet's is either Control or RN1814. George's is Faith. None of that negates the artist's discography overall.

TrivialPursuit said:

Cinny said:

If there was ever a moment to give George Michael every award, it was Faith.

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally. There are a few boring moments on it, but overall it really was a powerhouse of music. I always say every artist has their Thriller - that one album that becomes the peak of everything in their career. Prince had Purple Rain. Madonna's is probably Like A Prayer. Janet's is either Control or RN1814. George's is Faith. None of that negates the artist's discography overall.

1984's Like A Virgin was "A Digital Recording".

Cinny said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally.

1984's Like A Virgin was "A Digital Recording".

Yeah, both were recorded with Sony equipment. I did say "one of the first," not the first.

But wasn't it GM who used the Oberheim or something a lot which was sort of new and revolutionary in music?

TrivialPursuit said:

Cinny said:

If there was ever a moment to give George Michael every award, it was Faith.

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally. There are a few boring moments on it, but overall it really was a powerhouse of music. I always say every artist has their Thriller - that one album that becomes the peak of everything in their career. Prince had Purple Rain. Madonna's is probably Like A Prayer. Janet's is either Control or RN1814. George's is Faith. None of that negates the artist's discography overall.

Madonna has got some more Ray of Light and COADF

slyjackson said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally. There are a few boring moments on it, but overall it really was a powerhouse of music. I always say every artist has their Thriller - that one album that becomes the peak of everything in their career. Prince had Purple Rain. Madonna's is probably Like A Prayer. Janet's is either Control or RN1814. George's is Faith. None of that negates the artist's discography overall.

Madonna has got some more Ray of Light and COADF

Damn I wore out this album. I don't care if Al Sharpton and the Soul Train crowd thought it was a sellout to white radio it was a great album.

TonyVanDam said:

CAUTION TALE: The Whitney album is also responsible for why AND how some of Whitney's black audience booed the hell out of her at the now infamous 1988 Soul Train Music Awards.

In fairness, like I once told ex-org Vainandy [a notorious Whitney-hater!] years ago , all blame goes to record exec & Whitney mentor, Clive Davis. This dude wanted to make Whitney Houston a mainstream pop success so bad that he turn the poor woman into a chocolate cover valley girl!

[Edited 6/6/20 7:52am]

Al Sharpton called her Whitey Houston. And then her family had the nerve to let him on stage at her funeral. That whole thing still pisses me off because I firmly believe one of the reasons she hooked up with that loser Bobby Brown was because some were questioning whether she was black enough. All because she had the audacity to record music that was popular on white radio. Such BS.

slyjackson said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I think it was one of the first albums to be recorded digitally. There are a few boring moments on it, but overall it really was a powerhouse of music. I always say every artist has their Thriller - that one album that becomes the peak of everything in their career. Prince had Purple Rain. Madonna's is probably Like A Prayer. Janet's is either Control or RN1814. George's is Faith. None of that negates the artist's discography overall.

Madonna has got some more Ray of Light and COADF

If there was one for the new millenial Madonna, it'd definitely be ROL.

TrivialPursuit said:

TonyVanDam said:

Good thing artists like Prince & George Michael didn't "fall in line" with that foolishness.

And as a note about award shows, remember when George Michael won over all those black artists? Quel scandale!

That was why at the 1988 American Music Award [AMA], Quincy Jones had a surprising look on his face when announcing George Michael as winner of Best R&B/Soul album of the year. Quincy knew some people [including Keith Sweat, who was one of the losing nominees] were not going to take this well in the long-term.

[Edited 6/19/20 22:41pm]

rogifan said:

TrivialPursuit said:

slyjackson said:

Madonna has got some more Ray of Light and COADF

If there was one for the new millenial Madonna, it'd definitely be ROL.

That is Music another great album.

slyjackson said:

alphastreet said:

slyjackson said:

That is Music another great album.

Music is fabulous, and sold as much as ray of light worldwide, though a little bit less in the USA

I'm not sure about that, but it's a great follow up to ROL and quite different.

slyjackson said:

alphastreet said:

rogifan said:

Al Sharpton called her Whitey Houston. And then her family had the nerve to let him on stage at her funeral. That whole thing still pisses me off because I firmly believe one of the reasons she hooked up with that loser Bobby Brown was because some were questioning whether she was black enough. All because she had the audacity to record music that was popular on white radio. Such BS.

I also believe she’s bisexual and that if she and Robyn were out, she would have been happier

No. Even Robyn admits that. Whitney said it best to Katie Couric: gay and lesbian were two titles she couldn't claim but if she was lesbian she'd say this is who I am love me or leave me.

I remember this. And then the SOB had the gall to show up at her funeral. F him.

rogifan said:

I remember this. And then the SOB had the gall to show up at her funeral. F him.

Anything to get in the media spotlight... He showed up for George Floyd's funeral/memorial, too...

TonyVanDam said:

lool said:

When Whitney turned in her first record, Clive told her to rerecord it because she sounded too black.

A few years earlier Clive once told Phyllis Hyman the same thing. To her credit, Phyllis didn't give a damn about a crossover success. She knew she was too soulful and proud of it!

The Barry Manilow produced "Somewhere In My Lifetime" was Clive's attempt to make Phyllis sound more Pop. I always hated that song. Clive was trying to turn Phyllis into something she was not. It was better suited for Dionne. Phyllis could sing anything. She recorded plenty of Pop songs at Arista that were much better. But, that particular song just wasn't her. And the relationship between she and Clive was so bad that he didn't even attempt to get her music played outside of black radio despite her having many Pop-friendly cuts on her albums. When he found Nippy, he knew he hit the jackpot and got rid of Phyllis.

rogifan said:

alphastreet said:

rogifan said: I also believe she’s bisexual and that if she and Robyn were out, she would have been happier

No. Even Robyn admits that. Whitney said it best to Katie Couric: gay and lesbian were two titles she couldn't claim but if she was lesbian she'd say this is who I am love me or leave me.

TrivialPursuit said:

Cinny said:

1984's Like A Virgin was "A Digital Recording".

Yeah, both were recorded with Sony equipment. I did say "one of the first," not the first.

But wasn't it GM who used the Oberheim or something a lot which was sort of new and revolutionary in music?

All I know is Mariah Carey said she wanted her debut album to sound like Faith.



Roger Sanchez hotlink edit

[Edited 6/12/20 10:43am]

A good podcast from Slate about Whitney's crossover success. I've listened to a number of them and they usually start out setting the landscape/history of the black music scene. But while artists like Aretha, Dionne, Diana Ross, Donna Summer, Roberta Flack get mentioned they always seem to leave out Tina Turner. Tina Turner was huge in 1984. What's Love Got to Do With It and Private Dancer were big hits. WLGTDWI hit #1 on the billboard hot 100 and won Grammys for record and song of the year. The album private dancer won 4 out of the 6 Grammys it was nominated for. I think Tina gets short shrift when it comes to black crossover artists in the 80s.

https://www.podtrac.com/p...1582857567

ReddBlitz said: