Britney Spears is #1 but no Whitney or Mariah on the list. That's all you need to know that this list is hot garbage. Prince does make the list with Soft and Wet at...31.

https://www.rollingstone....na-993749/

I don't think it it trash per se. Whitney's first single didn't chart at all and her second single didn't make the pop charts, so I don't think they are being unfair here. I do agree with you about Mariaheven though I was never a fan of hers at al, as l Vision of Love was a major breakthrough. For me, I appreciated that they includes some unexpected artists such as Otis Redding, Patti Smith, and The Replacements to name a few, but there were also several head scratchers as well inlcuding #1, I do think it is an extremely unpredicable and rather random list, as I can't imagine that people who haven'tseen the list would guess over 25% of the entrires.

gandorb said:

I don't think it it trash per se. Whitney's first single didn't chart at all and her second single didn't make the pop charts, so I don't think they are being unfair here.

There's truth in that theory. Not everyone, including Prince, comes blazing out of the gate. Even Off The Wall wasn't such a big deal to people despite it being such a fan favorite (often over Thriller). Whitney had a mediocre start. "You Give Good Love" wasn't as all over the place as something like "Saving All My Love For You" and especially "Greatest Love of All." Even Prince admitted that he was "quietly" known when "Soft and Wet" came out. It was "I Wanna Be Your Lover" that was on K-Tel compilations, not "Soft and Wet."

Debut singles don't speak to the artist's overall career and their success with it. "Vision of Love" was a popular single, but was it as big as "Hit me Baby One More Time?" No. That doesn't mean Spears is more talented than Carey. It's just the market, the mood, the landscape, etc.

TrivialPursuit said:

gandorb said:

I don't think it it trash per se. Whitney's first single didn't chart at all and her second single didn't make the pop charts, so I don't think they are being unfair here.

There's truth in that theory. Not everyone, including Prince, comes blazing out of the gate. Even Off The Wall wasn't such a big deal to people despite it being such a fan favorite (often over Thriller). Whitney had a mediocre start. "You Give Good Love" wasn't as all over the place as something like "Saving All My Love For You" and especially "Greatest Love of All." Even Prince admitted that he was "quietly" known when "Soft and Wet" came out. It was "I Wanna Be Your Lover" that was on K-Tel compilations, not "Soft and Wet."

Debut singles don't speak to the artist's overall career and their success with it. "Vision of Love" was a popular single, but was it as big as "Hit me Baby One More Time?" No. That doesn't mean Spears is more talented than Carey. It's just the market, the mood, the landscape, etc.

And as someone who was completely not a fan of Spears, that song and video are seared into my mind for better or for worse. It did make an impression.

Some strange choices on there, Television? Joy Division? Good songs but hardly getting it right from the beginning. I couldn't give a damn about Mariah or Whitney but feel free to put them in there instead, Vision of Love is definitely more of a classic debut than Digital. Wild Cherry are up there with The Knack when it comes to debut singles though, should have made the list.

[Edited 5/20/20 6:16am]

TrivialPursuit said:

gandorb said:

I don't think it it trash per se. Whitney's first single didn't chart at all and her second single didn't make the pop charts, so I don't think they are being unfair here.

There's truth in that theory. Not everyone, including Prince, comes blazing out of the gate. Even Off The Wall wasn't such a big deal to people despite it being such a fan favorite (often over Thriller). Whitney had a mediocre start. "You Give Good Love" wasn't as all over the place as something like "Saving All My Love For You" and especially "Greatest Love of All." Even Prince admitted that he was "quietly" known when "Soft and Wet" came out. It was "I Wanna Be Your Lover" that was on K-Tel compilations, not "Soft and Wet."

Debut singles don't speak to the artist's overall career and their success with it. "Vision of Love" was a popular single, but was it as big as "Hit me Baby One More Time?" No. That doesn't mean Spears is more talented than Carey. It's just the market, the mood, the landscape, etc.

True. I still wouldn't have put Britney at #1. This list is all over the place but a song like Welcome to the Jungle is completely missing. No it wasn't a Billboard chart hit but that video getting massive airplay on MTV (due to the phones lighting up with viewers requesting it) is what made GNR and the album Appetite for Destruction a massive success.

The first records came out in the 1890s. So how can it be "of all time" when there is little or nothing before the 1960s?

There's records on there from the 1950's, which is really the birth of rocknroll and the 7" single as a format. You'd be hard pushed to find anyone talking about a "debut single" before 1954 or so. I mean, that's not to say the list is definitive in any way, like every list it shows the tastes of a certain group of people at a certain point in time.

jaawwnn said:

There's records on there from the 1950's, which is really the birth of rocknroll and the 7" single as a format.

78s were singles. Before around 1950, everything was a single because the LP album hadn't been invented yet. Even if you start in the 1960s, why no records from Mexico, Brazil, Japan, etc.?

ah because it's Rolling Stone and their remit doesn't really extend before rock'n'roll. You're absolutely correct that "of all time" is ludicrous if taken literally.

The words "Greatest of All Time" and "Britney Spears" do not belong in the same sentence.

MickyDolenz said:

jaawwnn said:

There's records on there from the 1950's, which is really the birth of rocknroll and the 7" single as a format.

78s were singles. Before around 1950, everything was a single because the LP album hadn't been invented yet. Even if you start in the 1960s, why no records from Mexico, Brazil, Japan, etc.?

Shakira and Natalia Lafourcade should have a place here.

These lists are always so damn weird and come out of nowhere with Rolling Stone, there really seems to be NO criteria as with most of their lists, its usually a few interns at the magazine run wild with a bag of snickers bars and all of a sudden they are "music experts'. OK. By my take away was in some cases they are picking debuts from legends Prince, Led Zep, Beatles, and in some cases they pick a song from an artists debut that started a movement, I am guessing that would be Britney THOUGH boy bands did beat her to it I get their intention but no way at number one, I mean that is saying that SONG and she was the biggest thing in 70 years? Big statement and Im sure Britney in her way would say "are you serious". BUT there are two huge misses that either i went past it or they just missed and they are big IMO. Bon Jovi "RUNAWAY" now it doesnt matter if you like him or the band, not the point, and I know Rolling Stone personally hates everything they ever did, even making one review years ago more about Jon's hair style then the album, so its always BEEN personal with that magazine and him, but to miss this song is HUGE. The way Jon got this song, wrote it with NO BAND AT ALL, swept up in the studio every night and finally got his demo tape of this song to a DJ and then the thing goes cross country, try that today with ANY DJ actually being allowed to play a new song of anyone, not happening. And from that comes a band that sells 130 million worldwide. NEXT "Dont Know Why" Norah Jones didnt see this on the list this is a HUGE miss again, how do you miss this? This song also a demo, Norah who basiclally was playing bars and small clubs, before being signed, she literally had this song on a demo cd she was selling at gigs for five bucks right when she was first signed. This song was like nothing out or on radio nor did Norah have that in your face type image that would put her in your house, she was literally gaining and gaining week by week the way music and artists used to catch on 30 years before. TWO BIG MISSES on a really strange list.

alphastreet said:

I’m also surprised Vision of Love wasn’t on the list. Beyoncé and others cited that song as inspiration for singing

I thought about that, too. The list had to be based on opinion opposed to numbers, sales, radio play, etc. But still, how someone skips "Vision of Love" is beyond me.

TrivialPursuit said:

alphastreet said:

I’m also surprised Vision of Love wasn’t on the list. Beyoncé and others cited that song as inspiration for singing

I thought about that, too. The list had to be based on opinion opposed to numbers, sales, radio play, etc. But still, how someone skips "Vision of Love" is beyond me.

It's just plain stupid to overlook such a classic.

TrivialPursuit said:

gandorb said:

I don't think it it trash per se. Whitney's first single didn't chart at all and her second single didn't make the pop charts, so I don't think they are being unfair here.

There's truth in that theory. Not everyone, including Prince, comes blazing out of the gate. Even Off The Wall wasn't such a big deal to people despite it being such a fan favorite (often over Thriller). Whitney had a mediocre start. "You Give Good Love" wasn't as all over the place as something like "Saving All My Love For You" and especially "Greatest Love of All." Even Prince admitted that he was "quietly" known when "Soft and Wet" came out. It was "I Wanna Be Your Lover" that was on K-Tel compilations, not "Soft and Wet."

Debut singles don't speak to the artist's overall career and their success with it. "Vision of Love" was a popular single, but was it as big as "Hit me Baby One More Time?" No. That doesn't mean Spears is more talented than Carey. It's just the market, the mood, the landscape, etc.

I beg to differ with this statement.

CynicKill said:

TrivialPursuit said:

There's truth in that theory. Not everyone, including Prince, comes blazing out of the gate. Even Off The Wall wasn't such a big deal to people despite it being such a fan favorite (often over Thriller). Whitney had a mediocre start. "You Give Good Love" wasn't as all over the place as something like "Saving All My Love For You" and especially "Greatest Love of All." Even Prince admitted that he was "quietly" known when "Soft and Wet" came out. It was "I Wanna Be Your Lover" that was on K-Tel compilations, not "Soft and Wet."

Debut singles don't speak to the artist's overall career and their success with it. "Vision of Love" was a popular single, but was it as big as "Hit me Baby One More Time?" No. That doesn't mean Spears is more talented than Carey. It's just the market, the mood, the landscape, etc.

I beg to differ with this statement.

By the way, Someone For Me was the first single released by Whitney and it was a total flop.

gandorb said:

Someone For Me was the first single released by Whitney

Nope, it was Hold Me with Teddy Pendergrass

slyjackson said:

Shakira and Natalia Lafourcade should have a place here.

I think Astrud Gilberto would come before them. The Girl From Ipanema started a bossa nova craze in the 1960s. So would Celia Cruz, Jose Feliciano, Menudo, Lisa Lisa, Héctor Levoe, Vicente Fernandez, Vikki Carr, Richie Valens, Freddy Fender, or Miami Sound Machine.

lastdecember said:

These lists are always so damn weird and come out of nowhere with Rolling Stone, there really seems to be NO criteria as with most of their lists, its usually a few interns at the magazine run wild with a bag of snickers bars and all of a sudden they are "music experts'. OK. By my take away was in some cases they are picking debuts from legends Prince, Led Zep, Beatles, and in some cases they pick a song from an artists debut that started a movement, I am guessing that would be Britney THOUGH boy bands did beat her to it I get their intention but no way at number one, I mean that is saying that SONG and she was the biggest thing in 70 years? Big statement and Im sure Britney in her way would say "are you serious". BUT there are two huge misses that either i went past it or they just missed and they are big IMO. Bon Jovi "RUNAWAY" now it doesnt matter if you like him or the band, not the point, and I know Rolling Stone personally hates everything they ever did, even making one review years ago more about Jon's hair style then the album, so its always BEEN personal with that magazine and him, but to miss this song is HUGE. The way Jon got this song, wrote it with NO BAND AT ALL, swept up in the studio every night and finally got his demo tape of this song to a DJ and then the thing goes cross country, try that today with ANY DJ actually being allowed to play a new song of anyone, not happening. And from that comes a band that sells 130 million worldwide. NEXT "Dont Know Why" Norah Jones didnt see this on the list this is a HUGE miss again, how do you miss this? This song also a demo, Norah who basiclally was playing bars and small clubs, before being signed, she literally had this song on a demo cd she was selling at gigs for five bucks right when she was first signed. This song was like nothing out or on radio nor did Norah have that in your face type image that would put her in your house, she was literally gaining and gaining week by week the way music and artists used to catch on 30 years before. TWO BIG MISSES on a really strange list.

No Norah Jones but Alicia Keys makes the list.

gandorb said:

By the way, Someone For Me was the first single released by Whitney and it was a total flop.

Do you mean "Thinking About You?" That's what's noted as the first since in January 1985 (album was out in February 1985) with "You Give Good Love" out around the same time. "Thinking About You" had "Someone For Me" as a b-side in some markets.

I always liked "Someone For Me."

As for "Thinking About You," I have to say I don't really remember the song at all (and I have the anniversary record!). From wikipedia: "The song debuted at number 89 on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Singles chart on September 11, 1985. On December 14, 1985, the song reached its peak position of number 10. It spent 15 weeks on the chart."

I must've been listening to ATWIAD or sumfin'. haha

rogifan said:

lastdecember said:

These lists are always so damn weird and come out of nowhere with Rolling Stone, there really seems to be NO criteria as with most of their lists, its usually a few interns at the magazine run wild with a bag of snickers bars and all of a sudden they are "music experts'. OK. By my take away was in some cases they are picking debuts from legends Prince, Led Zep, Beatles, and in some cases they pick a song from an artists debut that started a movement, I am guessing that would be Britney THOUGH boy bands did beat her to it I get their intention but no way at number one, I mean that is saying that SONG and she was the biggest thing in 70 years? Big statement and Im sure Britney in her way would say "are you serious". BUT there are two huge misses that either i went past it or they just missed and they are big IMO. Bon Jovi "RUNAWAY" now it doesnt matter if you like him or the band, not the point, and I know Rolling Stone personally hates everything they ever did, even making one review years ago more about Jon's hair style then the album, so its always BEEN personal with that magazine and him, but to miss this song is HUGE. The way Jon got this song, wrote it with NO BAND AT ALL, swept up in the studio every night and finally got his demo tape of this song to a DJ and then the thing goes cross country, try that today with ANY DJ actually being allowed to play a new song of anyone, not happening. And from that comes a band that sells 130 million worldwide. NEXT "Dont Know Why" Norah Jones didnt see this on the list this is a HUGE miss again, how do you miss this? This song also a demo, Norah who basiclally was playing bars and small clubs, before being signed, she literally had this song on a demo cd she was selling at gigs for five bucks right when she was first signed. This song was like nothing out or on radio nor did Norah have that in your face type image that would put her in your house, she was literally gaining and gaining week by week the way music and artists used to catch on 30 years before. TWO BIG MISSES on a really strange list.

No Norah Jones but Alicia Keys makes the list.

my thing with Alicia is one that the machine was pushing her day one, she was a hit before the music came out, and IMO I'm not a fan of that first album overall, I get she is a big artist and that song propelled her but the machine also hugely pushed her, she was Arista, Norah was on blue note and each week that song rose climbed a little at a time she was all word of mouth, and her album sold 10,000 first week, now that would be a big deal and back then she said Holy cow because she didn't think it would catch, and each week it went up 20k 40k etc...

TrivialPursuit said:

gandorb said:

By the way, Someone For Me was the first single released by Whitney and it was a total flop.

Do you mean "Thinking About You?" That's what's noted as the first since in January 1985 (album was out in February 1985) with "You Give Good Love" out around the same time. "Thinking About You" had "Someone For Me" as a b-side in some markets.

I always liked "Someone For Me."

As for "Thinking About You," I have to say I don't really remember the song at all (and I have the anniversary record!). From wikipedia: "The song debuted at number 89 on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Singles chart on September 11, 1985. On December 14, 1985, the song reached its peak position of number 10. It spent 15 weeks on the chart."

I must've been listening to ATWIAD or sumfin'. haha

Well I was lazy at first, as I relied on Google and it referred me to the allmusic.com site, which said that her first single from the Whitney Houston album, Someone For Me, had flopped. However, Wikipedia said that Thinking About You was the first release, which was in January 1985 and the album debuted a few weeks later in February. That sequencing makes sense given that the first single typically was released a few weeks before. That would not have given time for another single to fail before Thinking About You was released. As you mentioned, Thinking About You was a R&B hit, but didn't chart as a pop single at all. I also read that the next single You Give Good Love was supposed to further establish her as a R&B artist and that Ariista was surprised it did so well on Top 40 radio (#3), While I did have and liked the album, I too was busy tripping out on ATWIAD to get that much into it.

gandorb said:

Well I was lazy at first, as I relied on Google and it referred me to the allmusic.com site, which said that her first single from the Whitney Houston album, Someone For Me, had flopped. However, Wikipedia said that Thinking About You was the first release, which was in January 1985 and the album debuted a few weeks later in February. That sequencing makes sense given that the first single typically was released a few weeks before. That would not have given time for another single to fail before Thinking About You was released. As you mentioned, Thinking About You was a R&B hit, but didn't chart as a pop single at all. I also read that the next single You Give Good Love was supposed to further establish her as a R&B artist and that Ariista was surprised it did so well on Top 40 radio (#3), While I did have and liked the album, I too was busy tripping out on ATWIAD to get that much into it.

If it means anything, you had me digging to be sure about the first single. I would've never guessed anything was out before "You Give Good Love."

Free2BMe said:

alphastreet said:

alphastreet said: