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Thread started 03/14/20 3:28pm

serenae

Lana Del Rey - underrated, overrated or both?

IMO she's underrated and overrated at the same time. Let me explain.

All of us know that we have had almost 0 talented mainstream and even popular underground musicians ever since the rise of the internet and especially social media.

So although Lana Del Rey isn't EXTRAORDINARILY talented by any means, her catalog and performances are much better compared to TSwift', AGrande', Selena', Demi', Miley' and all of the other pop and alt girls's.

She has some truly beautiful songs and i like her aesthetic.

She also arguably paved the way for "sad girl music" that we're seeing in the industry now with Billie Eilish and other popular alternative female musicians.

I feel like if it wasn't for her controversial lyrics (her singing about how abusive relationships are "love") and her foolishnes when it comes to her ego, made up persona and overall never-ending lies about her rich background and plastic surgeries she could've been a much bigger artist by now & that's assuming that she wouldn't have been so far up her ass and would've actually decided to write a couple of CATCHY songs becuase out of all of her albums she has only a few.

So here comes the "overrated" part. Lana is super polarizing.

Most people either adore her or hate her.

And her fans are incredibly pretentious and annoying.

They always act like she can do no wrong & like she's some kind of music genius/virtuoso a la Prince...

Once again, i LOVE some of her songs and i feel like the general public is missing out on a lot when it comes to her catalog.

But how can her fanbase expect her to become some kind of a a truly mainstream artist if her most popular work (among the average music listener) is that Summertime Sadness remix (not even her original version LOL) that was released circa 7 years ago? lol

Even Prince had to write his 1999 + Purple Rain songs (and some other 80s hits) in order to reach his commercial peak and that's always been the case when it comes to the rise of all iconic musicians and/or popular music movements.

Hell, Kurt Cobain made a career out of only writing simple, yet CATCHY punk rock songs but Nirvana would've still ended up being yet another popular underground band if it wasn't for Smells Like Teen Spirit and they were the last truly huge rock band.

Lana isn't even on that level of talent especially performance-wise and almost none of her songs are genuinely catchy enough for the radio.

I cannot understand why she refuses to sit her ass down and write some songs that are more radio-friendly.

She's only had Summertime Sadness, Blue Jeans and Born To Die (for "big" hits if you consider these songs big + Video Games but it was more popular online than it was on the radio) and all of these songs are from the same album.

Someone's gonna say oh but people don't listen to the radio as much anymore and while that may be true it's still a way for people to discover new artists if they happen to hear a very distinctive song that's being played.

That's literally how most of her fans found out about who she was back in 2013.

She also had Young and Beautiful and the other soundtrack (forgot the name) so she had A LOT of potential, especially given the fact that she sold over 7 million physical copies of her Born To Die album worldwide but that was it.

She was DONE (in terms of truly mainstream recognition) aside from these movie soundtracks & that 1st album although her 2nd and 3rd album did kind of well too.

I like Ultraviolence but it was full of pretty, melancholic songs yet not ONE that was catchy enough for radio.

I'm not saying that she should stop writing her songs but can't she hire someone to write at least 2-3 catchier songs for every album of hers that would serve as potential hits and fill the rest of the album with her usual sad-pop songs?

Once again, she doesn't need to drastically change her style but just have something that's more catchy.

If she can make room for literal trash rapper features on her albums that don't match her album sound/concept and aesthetic at all then she could make room for a couple of faster-paced songs for example.

But no, she obviously insists on writing everything herself although it's not working in her favour because by the looks of it she doesn't have enough talent when it comes to having the ability to write real hits.

Plus she doesn't do any quote-in-quote proper promo.

She used to be better at it after she got more popular around 2012-2014 (up until MAYBE 2015 if we're generous) but all i've been seeing from her is literal laziness ever since.

Not only that the general public's short attention span these days requires much more activity in the media from the artists if they want to keep their name out there (even when they get #1 songs frequently), but the whole "i'm gonna get out of my house only 4 times a year for a boring interview regardless of the fact that i haven't had a truly popular song for about 7 years now" thing is extremely pretentious and stupid.

Hell, i doubt that even Prince would've had the ability to stay off the radar all the time and keep making comercially succesful music for years in this day and age if he were in his late 20s-early 30s right now.

Her arrogance though is off the charts.

And one might say "oh, but she probably doesn't care about mainstream recognition!" and that's what i used to think for a while too but she definetly does.

The reason why she cancelled her EU tour last month wasn't her being so sick that she "completely lost her voice".

CDAN had a blind item about it and she cancelled because she couldn't even fill half of the arenas that she had booked and was too embarrased to play.

She also weirdly expected to get a Grammy although she's been off the general public's radar for a really long time now.

It's not fair that these award shows are (especially these days) more of popularity contests that anything but that's always been the case (yes, they were corrupt even way back in the 80's too) and everyone knows it.

I do think that the award should've went to her and not Billie but it genuinely seems like Lana just can't face the fact that most people don't care about her anymore and can't understand why either although she makes way more mistakes than right choices when it comes to her career and that's been the case since literally day 1.

Combine that with the decline in her work's appeal and quality (Norman F*cking Rockwell had some interesting and crticially acclaimed songs but once again, melancholy sad girl psychedelia pop songs that are nice for background music in a 1920s style bar but none of them were radio-playable and catchy & she's not popular enough to sell lots of records and not worry about radio play that's gonna keep her relevant) & the consistent decline of her performances although she's never been an amazing, charismatic performer in the first place.

Of course that she'll fall off and fail to keep selling out stadiums.

It's actually mind-blowing that she managed to keep it up for so long.

She had a good 7-8-year run of lazy work and lazy performances and somewhat of a relevance.

Sorry for the rant but i am super mad because she had SO MUCH potential but at this point she has truly missed the opportunity to reach the level that she could've very easily reached in the industry especially with her hitting her 30s now because we know how ageist the music business is.

What do y'all think? neutral

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Reply #1 posted 03/14/20 8:14pm

gandorb

serenae said:

IMO she's underrated and overrated at the same time. Let me explain.

All of us know that we have had almost 0 talented mainstream and even popular underground musicians ever since the rise of the internet and especially social media.

So although Lana Del Rey isn't EXTRAORDINARILY talented by any means, her catalog and performances are much better compared to TSwift', AGrande', Selena', Demi', Miley' and all of the other pop and alt girls's.

She has some truly beautiful songs and i like her aesthetic.

She also arguably paved the way for "sad girl music" that we're seeing in the industry now with Billie Eilish and other popular alternative female musicians.

I feel like if it wasn't for her controversial lyrics (her singing about how abusive relationships are "love") and her foolishnes when it comes to her ego, made up persona and overall never-ending lies about her rich background and plastic surgeries she could've been a much bigger artist by now & that's assuming that she wouldn't have been so far up her ass and would've actually decided to write a couple of CATCHY songs becuase out of all of her albums she has only a few.

So here comes the "overrated" part. Lana is super polarizing.

Most people either adore her or hate her.

And her fans are incredibly pretentious and annoying.

They always act like she can do no wrong & like she's some kind of music genius/virtuoso a la Prince...

Once again, i LOVE some of her songs and i feel like the general public is missing out on a lot when it comes to her catalog.

But how can her fanbase expect her to become some kind of a a truly mainstream artist if her most popular work (among the average music listener) is that Summertime Sadness remix (not even her original version LOL) that was released circa 7 years ago? lol

Even Prince had to write his 1999 + Purple Rain songs (and some other 80s hits) in order to reach his commercial peak and that's always been the case when it comes to the rise of all iconic musicians and/or popular music movements.

Hell, Kurt Cobain made a career out of only writing simple, yet CATCHY punk rock songs but Nirvana would've still ended up being yet another popular underground band if it wasn't for Smells Like Teen Spirit and they were the last truly huge rock band.

Lana isn't even on that level of talent especially performance-wise and almost none of her songs are genuinely catchy enough for the radio.

I cannot understand why she refuses to sit her ass down and write some songs that are more radio-friendly.

She's only had Summertime Sadness, Blue Jeans and Born To Die (for "big" hits if you consider these songs big + Video Games but it was more popular online than it was on the radio) and all of these songs are from the same album.

Someone's gonna say oh but people don't listen to the radio as much anymore and while that may be true it's still a way for people to discover new artists if they happen to hear a very distinctive song that's being played.

That's literally how most of her fans found out about who she was back in 2013.

She also had Young and Beautiful and the other soundtrack (forgot the name) so she had A LOT of potential, especially given the fact that she sold over 7 million physical copies of her Born To Die album worldwide but that was it.

She was DONE (in terms of truly mainstream recognition) aside from these movie soundtracks & that 1st album although her 2nd and 3rd album did kind of well too.

I like Ultraviolence but it was full of pretty, melancholic songs yet not ONE that was catchy enough for radio.

I'm not saying that she should stop writing her songs but can't she hire someone to write at least 2-3 catchier songs for every album of hers that would serve as potential hits and fill the rest of the album with her usual sad-pop songs?

Once again, she doesn't need to drastically change her style but just have something that's more catchy.

If she can make room for literal trash rapper features on her albums that don't match her album sound/concept and aesthetic at all then she could make room for a couple of faster-paced songs for example.

But no, she obviously insists on writing everything herself although it's not working in her favour because by the looks of it she doesn't have enough talent when it comes to having the ability to write real hits.

Plus she doesn't do any quote-in-quote proper promo.

She used to be better at it after she got more popular around 2012-2014 (up until MAYBE 2015 if we're generous) but all i've been seeing from her is literal laziness ever since.

Not only that the general public's short attention span these days requires much more activity in the media from the artists if they want to keep their name out there (even when they get #1 songs frequently), but the whole "i'm gonna get out of my house only 4 times a year for a boring interview regardless of the fact that i haven't had a truly popular song for about 7 years now" thing is extremely pretentious and stupid.

Hell, i doubt that even Prince would've had the ability to stay off the radar all the time and keep making comercially succesful music for years in this day and age if he were in his late 20s-early 30s right now.

Her arrogance though is off the charts.

And one might say "oh, but she probably doesn't care about mainstream recognition!" and that's what i used to think for a while too but she definetly does.

The reason why she cancelled her EU tour last month wasn't her being so sick that she "completely lost her voice".

CDAN had a blind item about it and she cancelled because she couldn't even fill half of the arenas that she had booked and was too embarrased to play.

She also weirdly expected to get a Grammy although she's been off the general public's radar for a really long time now.

It's not fair that these award shows are (especially these days) more of popularity contests that anything but that's always been the case (yes, they were corrupt even way back in the 80's too) and everyone knows it.

I do think that the award should've went to her and not Billie but it genuinely seems like Lana just can't face the fact that most people don't care about her anymore and can't understand why either although she makes way more mistakes than right choices when it comes to her career and that's been the case since literally day 1.

Combine that with the decline in her work's appeal and quality (Norman F*cking Rockwell had some interesting and crticially acclaimed songs but once again, melancholy sad girl psychedelia pop songs that are nice for background music in a 1920s style bar but none of them were radio-playable and catchy & she's not popular enough to sell lots of records and not worry about radio play that's gonna keep her relevant) & the consistent decline of her performances although she's never been an amazing, charismatic performer in the first place.

Of course that she'll fall off and fail to keep selling out stadiums.

It's actually mind-blowing that she managed to keep it up for so long.

She had a good 7-8-year run of lazy work and lazy performances and somewhat of a relevance.

Sorry for the rant but i am super mad because she had SO MUCH potential but at this point she has truly missed the opportunity to reach the level that she could've very easily reached in the industry especially with her hitting her 30s now because we know how ageist the music business is.

What do y'all think? neutral

Neither. I think she is properly rated. She seems the part of a critically acclaimed star with a laarge cult following but not mainstream enough to have many hits or radio play. I don't agree wioth you about any downhill trajectory, as she continues to have a fan base and her last album was argubly her most acclaimed. She also has expanded the emotionally palette of her songs a bit, which I appreciate. They no longer consistently sound completely fatalistic. She doesn't tend to play concerts in conservative smallish cities, so I haven't kept up with her live performances.

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Reply #2 posted 03/14/20 9:05pm

CynicKill

I think she's underrated.

But what amazes me about her is how she completely bucked a "career-ending" media disaster like her debut SNL performance and wound up being a big seller and critical darling despite it.

You can admire the aesthetic without totally buying into it (Gangster Frank Sinatra, Natural Born Killers, Gothic gloom, sex and drugs and dangerous men take your pick...).

Plus the mood is beautiful. The lyrics reach a poetry most writers never even try approaching. The strings are always on point and never fail.

She built up a body of work quickly.

The only thing I wish she'd change is playing smaller venues that more closely fit her aesthetic. I'd kill to be her creative director.

Plus who knew the girl who stumbled out of the gate could pull off something like this:

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT9l9MZ5rio

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Reply #3 posted 03/17/20 9:34am

PeggyO

She certainly has presence. I recently watched her duet with Leonard Cohen's son (A Leonard Cohen tribute)

I could not take my eyes off of her.

Their dynamic was compelling.

I am forgetting who at the moment...but someone prominent wants her to portray them in a movie.

[Edited 3/17/20 10:00am]

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Reply #4 posted 03/17/20 3:29pm

slyjackson

I'm just geeting to know her music, but the song she's got with Sean Lennon is a beautiful song, sounds so much like John Lennon's music.

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Reply #5 posted 03/18/20 4:30am

jaawwnn

avatar

Both.

I feel like her stuff could be written by algorithm as this point, but at the same time she's not phoning it in. It's music that very of the present time... music for narcissists, but she does it well.

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Reply #6 posted 03/18/20 6:03am

JoeBala

Fiona apple she is not. I never dug her music and kinda gave on her after singing way off key on SNL.
Just Music-No Categories-Enjoy It!
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Reply #7 posted 03/18/20 9:34am

CynicKill

JoeBala said:

Fiona apple she is not. I never dug her music and kinda gave on her after singing way off key on SNL.

You are correct sir.

What I can say is Lana has ventured away from the bad-relationship trope way more than Fiona has, mainly because she has built up a body of work so fast and has so much material.

Fiona is still kinda stuck in that mode, however brilliant.

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Reply #8 posted 03/18/20 9:54am

jaawwnn

avatar

Fiona Apple is doing something totally different to Lana Del Rey, I see no reason to compare them.

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Reply #9 posted 03/18/20 4:24pm

slyjackson

jaawwnn said:

Both.

I feel like her stuff could be written by algorithm as this point, but at the same time she's not phoning it in. It's music that very of the present time... music for narcissists, but she does it well.

Would you mind to explain a little further.

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Reply #10 posted 03/19/20 3:14am

jaawwnn

avatar

slyjackson said:

jaawwnn said:

Both.

I feel like her stuff could be written by algorithm as this point, but at the same time she's not phoning it in. It's music that very of the present time... music for narcissists, but she does it well.

Would you mind to explain a little further.

Ah it's a bit just me being catty, but at the same time, for example, I found on her last album (which got across the board glowing reviews) almost every song was just chock full of references to other songs/well worn phrases, each one making the listener feel smart for getting the reference. It's music that's just piling up stuff we recognise without going the extra mile to really make it new. Now don't get me wrong I like lots of genre music, and lots of pop music that isn't breaking new ground, but I feel like she won't admit that her stuff is this as well, she wants to have it both ways. It irks me.

Having said all that there's power to her music, when I listen to it it affects me emotionally; those synapses the references are firing are real, but the differnece between her version and, say, what Nick Cave does are real.

[Edited 3/19/20 3:16am]

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Reply #11 posted 03/19/20 9:29am

CynicKill

jaawwnn said:

slyjackson said:

Would you mind to explain a little further.

Ah it's a bit just me being catty, but at the same time, for example, I found on her last album (which got across the board glowing reviews) almost every song was just chock full of references to other songs/well worn phrases, each one making the listener feel smart for getting the reference. It's music that's just piling up stuff we recognise without going the extra mile to really make it new. Now don't get me wrong I like lots of genre music, and lots of pop music that isn't breaking new ground, but I feel like she won't admit that her stuff is this as well, she wants to have it both ways. It irks me.

Having said all that there's power to her music, when I listen to it it affects me emotionally; those synapses the references are firing are real, but the differnece between her version and, say, what Nick Cave does are real.

[Edited 3/19/20 3:16am]

You gotta admit "Your poetry's bad and you blame the news" is clever though.

And "You act like a child even though you stand 6'2" is quite funny.

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Reply #12 posted 03/19/20 5:23pm

slyjackson

jaawwnn said:

slyjackson said:

Would you mind to explain a little further.

Ah it's a bit just me being catty, but at the same time, for example, I found on her last album (which got across the board glowing reviews) almost every song was just chock full of references to other songs/well worn phrases, each one making the listener feel smart for getting the reference. It's music that's just piling up stuff we recognise without going the extra mile to really make it new. Now don't get me wrong I like lots of genre music, and lots of pop music that isn't breaking new ground, but I feel like she won't admit that her stuff is this as well, she wants to have it both ways. It irks me.

Having said all that there's power to her music, when I listen to it it affects me emotionally; those synapses the references are firing are real, but the differnece between her version and, say, what Nick Cave does are real.

[Edited 3/19/20 3:16am]

Ok, I kind of get it... so her music is shit to you, fine.

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Reply #13 posted 03/24/20 1:38pm

JoeBala

jaawwnn said:

Fiona Apple is doing something totally different to Lana Del Rey, I see no reason to compare them.



Fiona was asked this question last year:
NPR recently called you the “godmother of 2019” —
What?!

Meaning you’ve influenced Billie Eilish, Lana Del Rey, Maggie Rogers, etc. Do you think that’s a fair assessment? Do you listen to any of them?
I don’t really follow, uh, I don’t. I feel bad. But I don’t.
Just Music-No Categories-Enjoy It!
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Reply #14 posted 03/26/20 2:28pm

BlaqueKnight

avatar

serenae said:

IMO she's underrated and overrated at the same time. Let me explain.

All of us know that we have had almost 0 talented mainstream and even popular underground musicians ever since the rise of the internet and especially social media.

I stopped reading after this. That is a blatant falsehood wrapped in the most arrogant presumption possible.

Youtube has become the main source for breaking new artists and re-establishing old ones.

It has been the vehicle of exposure for more talent than ever.

To claim there is no talent while ignoring the sources to find it is basically lying via feigned ignorance.

That being said, Lana is highly overrated. I've heard her live. Her voice is crap. Her intonation is terrible.

The bar has been lowered so far down these days that I guess she passes for it but really, her skillset is mediocre at best.

That has nothing to do with coming up with songs that appeal to people. Can she do that?

Yep. She does.

That is not a measure of musical or vocal talent. Lots of talented vocalists can't come up with catchy songs or develop a style of their own.

To me, she can't sang.

[Edited 3/26/20 14:32pm]

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Reply #15 posted 03/26/20 3:20pm

slyjackson

BlaqueKnight said:

serenae said:

IMO she's underrated and overrated at the same time. Let me explain.

All of us know that we have had almost 0 talented mainstream and even popular underground musicians ever since the rise of the internet and especially social media.

I stopped reading after this. That is a blatant falsehood wrapped in the most arrogant presumption possible.

Youtube has become the main source for breaking new artists and re-establishing old ones.

It has been the vehicle of exposure for more talent than ever.

To claim there is no talent while ignoring the sources to find it is basically lying via feigned ignorance.

That being said, Lana is highly overrated. I've heard her live. Her voice is crap. Her intonation is terrible.

The bar has been lowered so far down these days that I guess she passes for it but really, her skillset is mediocre at best.

That has nothing to do with coming up with songs that appeal to people. Can she do that?

Yep. She does.

That is not a measure of musical or vocal talent. Lots of talented vocalists can't come up with catchy songs or develop a style of their own.

To me, she can't sang.

[Edited 3/26/20 14:32pm]

Indeed erenae statement about not talent found since the rise of internet is stupid as fuck.

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