RodeoSchro said:

The Hall clearly isn't exclusively a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but honestly there isn't any one name or label that would please everyone that you could stick on any Hall that encompasses many different genres .

Calling it The Music Hall of Fame would exactly do that.

MickyDolenz said:

rogifan said:

And...this is why I can't stand Mariah. Oh and also because she was nothing more than Tommy Mattola's answer to Whitney.

Technically todays Top 40 music has more in common with Mariah than Whitney, since most mainstream popular albums are full of features, usually rappers. Very few has only the main singer/band on them. Unless you count those Jermaine Jackson duets Whitney did. Also I would say Michael, Janet, or Paula Abdul are more of an influence than Whitney, because it's common for singers to dance now or have a bunch of dancers behind them. Whitney could not dance. Even Milli Vanilli is an influence since some acts lip-sync in concert and not only Top 40 pop dance acts. There's been a few classic rock acts today who have been rumored to lip-sync or have background tracks when they perform. Milli Vanilli was also a Clive Davis act like Whitney.

They only have dancers and shit because their singing is crap.

purple05 said:

Ummmm no. Rock n Roll just means popular American music. Over the next few years more of your veteran rap acts will get in so get over it. Rock hasn’t been a relevant or dominant genre in ATLEAST 20 years. This is about American Popular Music. Whitney and Biggie are artist who had great influence on American popular music.

That's why I said rename it to the popular music Hall of Fame. Then an artist doesn't have to fit certain styles to get inducted or face criticism because they're not "rock".

rogifan said:

They only have dancers and shit because their singing is crap.

Singers/performers dancing goes all the way back to the vaudeville days. Who do you think Michael Jackson was influenced by? He grew up when movie musicals were still popular. Music videos are today's musicals. As far as singing goes, not everybody is into a Johnny Mathis or Barbra Streisand type of easy listening/adult contemporary singer or gospel style vocalists. If that was the case then acts like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, or Metallica would never have become a thing. Nor would there be an audience for growling death metal singers and punk rock.

Dance music is about the music and beat more than the singing. Disco, house, and dance music often have long instumetal sections, or just repeated chants. Techno & rave music tends to be insrumental. Like they used to say on American Bandstand "It has a good beat and I can dance to it". Also music from Africa tends to be based on drumming & rhythm, not melody. People dance to it. Hip hop is usually about the beat, so there's part of the appeal. You dance or bob your head to it. Even jazz was originally dance music, until bop came along and it turned into music where people just sit and listen to it like classical. That's also when jazz started to lose mainstream popularity.

MickyDolenz said:

rogifan said:

especially since there isn't another hall of fame for non-rock popular music.

Hip Hop Hall Of Fame

There's a Hiphop Hall of Fame ?!?!?

I thought they were just starting to get a building few years ago, but they already had inductions.

1990s Class Inductions[edit]

• Kool Herc
• Grandmaster Flash
• Run DMC & Jam Master Jay
• Universal Zulu Nation
• Eazy E
• DJ Red Alert

2010s Class Inductions[edit]

• The Sugar Hill Gang
• The Sequence
• Tupac Shakur
• Mr. Magic
• DJ Hollywood
• Ralph McDaniels/Video Music Box
• The N... Twins
• Cornbread
• Stay High 149
• The Mercedes Ladies
• Wild Style the Movie/Charlie Ahearn
• Red Glocka
• Biig Du
• Eminem
• Biggie

Hmmm, no N.W.A., no Wu-Tang, no Snoop Dogg, no Nas.......aren't they up to speed enough to update their Wikipedia or are these guys genuinely not inducted yet?

MickyDolenz said:

rogifan said:

They only have dancers and shit because their singing is crap.

Singers/performers dancing goes all the way back to the vaudeville days. Who do you think Michael Jackson was influenced by? He grew up when movie musicals were still popular. Music videos are today's musicals. As far as singing goes, not everybody is into a Johnny Mathis or Barbra Streisand type of easy listening/adult contemporary singer or gospel style vocalists. If that was the case then acts like Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, or Metallica would never have become a thing. Nor would there be an audience for growling death metal singers and punk rock.

Dance music is about the music and beat more than the singing. Disco, house, and dance music often have long instumetal sections, or just repeated chants. Techno & rave music tends to be insrumental. Like they used to say on American Bandstand "It has a good beat and I can dance to it". Also music from Africa tends to be based on drumming & rhythm, not melody. People dance to it. Hip hop is usually about the beat, so there's part of the appeal. You dance or bob your head to it. Even jazz was originally dance music, until bop came along and it turned into music where people just sit and listen to it like classical. That's also when jazz started to lose mainstream popularity.

OK but comparing MJ to the crap that's out there now is an embarrassment to MJ. And I'm not really even a fan of his. When you have an artist who sold over 200 million albums and was the first artist (or female artist at least) to have 7 #1 singles in a row but say well she's doesn't deserve it because she's not "rock and roll" that's whack. If the argument is she didn't write her own music, well then do we have to un-induct everyone else who didn't write their own songs? Most of Aretha's biggest hits weren't written by her. Elvis didn't write his songs. This is why I say change it to the popular music hall of fame and don't make it about who Jann Wenner and the editors of Rolling Stone magazine think are worthy.

rogifan said:

OK but comparing MJ to the crap that's out there now is an embarrassment to MJ. And I'm not really even a fan of his. When you have an artist who sold over 200 million albums and was the first artist (or female artist at least) to have 7 #1 singles in a row but say well she's doesn't deserve it because she's not "rock and roll" that's whack. If the argument is she didn't write her own music, well then do we have to un-induct everyone else who didn't write their own songs? Most of Aretha's biggest hits weren't written by her. Elvis didn't write his songs.

I'm not a music snob like a lot of people on this site, so I don't think any music is "crap" or "cheezy" or. I like some of Cardi B's songs and I've always listened to rap music. I don't care who is inducted or not, it's not that serious. Rock n roll was originally about rebellion and being put into a museum is not that. Rock is now like the crooner singers (Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Rosemary Clooney, the Rat Pack, etc) early rock n roll were supposed to rebel against. People complain about who is inducted every year (especially metal fans), it didn't start with Whitney & Biggie. Are you going to visit the Hall? If not, then why do you care if she's in or not. It's not like Cleveland, Ohio is a popular tourist city.

rogifan said:

This is why I say change it to the popular music hall of fame and don't make it about who Jann Wenner and the editors of Rolling Stone magazine think are worthy.

If it's run by RS, then why wouldn't it be about who they think is worthy. If Vogue Magazine or Field & Stream started a music museum, then it would be their taste. Again, the words "pop" or "popular" does not carry the same cool factor as "rock n roll". There is a Polka Hall Of Fame put not a pop one. That should tell you something. There actually was one called The American Pop Music Hall Of Fame but it didn't stay open that long, only a few years. It had acts like Chubby Checker, The Beatles, The Osmonds, The Platters, Bobby Sherman, Perry Como, Jackson 5, The Monkees, & The Carpenters inducted into it. Mostly 1950s, 1960s & early 1970s artists.

Pop music is looked down upon by a lot of folks. Like some of the R&B audience said that acts like Lionel Richie, Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston, Kool & The Gang, Tina Turner, etc sold out and watered down their music to crossover to the mainstream audience (aka white people). Whitney was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year and the TV skit show In Living Color did a parody video about Whitney singing Rhythmless Nation (to Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation). That is also one of the reasons people were surprised she married Bobby Brown who had a more street image. Regular heavy metal acts say the same about glam metal bands like Poison, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, or Warrant. Some country fans say this about Kenny Rogers & Shania Twain. Many people who listen to goth or punk rock would not consider pop a good thing either. Some brag about their band only sold 200 copies of their album or something. If they happen to become popular to the mainstream, then they stop listening to the artists and the acts get the same "sold out" comments. Fans of the early blues Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green say that about the Rumours lineup and prog Genesis (with Peter Gabriel) fans say that about the 1980s Phil Collins on lead vocals version.

If popular is considered a good thing, then there wouldn't be all the "sold out" comments. That is the reason why rock fans complain about Whitney, Madonna, Green Day, and Abba getting inducted into the Hall. Their music is not "cool". Abba is disco and rock fans were the ones wearing "disco sucks" shirts and had the riot at the baseball game. Rock fans tend to be male and the most popular rock artists are mainly white males other than a few like Heart, Pat Benatar, & Jimi Hendrix. Top 40 pop fans are more likely to be female. They're the ones who mostly buy all those records of teen idol singers. Look at those videos of girls screaming, crying, and passing out at Beatles concerts. If The Beatles didn't change their music to psychedelic and only kept doing "yeah yeah yeah!" type songs thier entire career, it's unlikely they would be considered the same way today as the best band in history. They would likely be put with Herman's Hermits & Freddie And The Dreamers and probably be forgotten by most people.

thedoorkeeper said:

Should have called it The Rolling Stone Hall of Fame from the start cause that's what it is. [Edited 2/12/20 7:05am] [Edited 2/12/20 7:06am]

And we have a winner!

Hot funk, cool punk, even if it' old junk, it's still rock n roll to me

PatrickS77 said:

RodeoSchro said:

The Hall clearly isn't exclusively a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but honestly there isn't any one name or label that would please everyone that you could stick on any Hall that encompasses many different genres .

Calling it The Music Hall of Fame would exactly do that.

Think they can get Beethoven to headline the class of 2021?

rdhull said:

Hot funk, cool punk, even if it' old junk, it's still rock n roll to me

Ultimate "i'm still with it" divorced dad song

[Edited 2/13/20 13:30pm]

rdhull said:

Hot funk, cool punk, even if it' old junk, it's still rock n roll to me

Won't go to hear 'em play a tango
I'd rather hear some blues or funky old soul
There's only one sure way to get me to go, start playing old time rock 'n' roll

WhisperingDandelions said:

Think they can get Beethoven to headline the class of 2021?