This year there was a lot of criticism of Whitney and Biggie getting in saying they're not rock and roll. The rock hall CEO defended the decision in the interview below saying you could marks an argument there's a direct line from Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross to Whitney Houston.

https://variety.com/2020/...203487021/

Honestly I think they should just rename it the Popular Music Hall od Fame. Then we can finally get rid of this stupid debate on whether something is rock and roll or not. Going forward there's going to be fewer guitar based bands/artists worthy of getting in and more pop acts are going to be nominated. Just open it up to anyone who's had a major impact/influence on popular music. And then retroactively induct who would fit under this new criteria (like Barbra Streisand). Under this scenario Whitney would be a no brainer. She's arguably the greatest female singer of the 20th century. Pretty much every female artist out there now was influenced by her in some shape or form.

if the RRHOF did do this what artists would you induct that might not otherwise be considered?

The Music Hall of Fame.

CynicKill said:

The Music Hall of Fame.

I think that's too broad as it would encompass classical, opera, jazz, country etc. But I do think it needs to be expanded beyond rock and roll especially since there isn't another hall of fame for non-rock popular music.

rogifan said:

This year there was a lot of criticism of Whitney and Biggie getting in saying they're not rock and roll. The rock hall CEO defended the decision in the interview below saying you could marks an argument there's a direct line from Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross to Whitney Houston.

https://variety.com/2020/...203487021/

Honestly I think they should just rename it the Popular Music Hall od Fame. Then we can finally get rid of this stupid debate on whether something is rock and roll or not. Going forward there's going to be fewer guitar based bands/artists worthy of getting in and more pop acts are going to be nominated. Just open it up to anyone who's had a major impact/influence on popular music. And then retroactively induct who would fit under this new criteria (like Barbra Streisand). Under this scenario Whitney would be a no brainer. She's arguably the greatest female singer of the 20th century. Pretty much every female artist out there now was influenced by her in some shape or form.

if the RRHOF did do this what artists would you induct that might not otherwise be considered?

I didn't realize Barbara has not been inducted. No way Nippy should have got in before Babs. They are basically the same type of Pop singer. Except Babarba has a much longer career and a more extensive discography.

Do you really think rock bands like Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Metallica, or Pink Floyd would want to be inducted in a "pop hall"? I don't think many of them would show up. I doubt a Public Enemy type of rap group would want to be in there either. Some of them had few, if any, pop hits, even though they might have sold a lot of albums. Sister Rosetta Tharpe & Miles Davis did not have any Top 40 pop hit singles, so would not really qualify for a Pop Hall Of Fame. But they are inducted in the Rock n Roll Hall.

rogifan said:

especially since there isn't another hall of fame for non-rock popular music.

Country Music Hall Of Fame

Gospel Music Hall Of Fame

Rhythm And Blues Hall Of Fame

Songwriters Hall Of Fame

Latin Songwriters Hall Of Fame

Alabama Music Hall of Fame

Memphis Music Hall Of Fame

Blues Hall Of Fame

Polka Hall Of Fame

The Funk Music Hall of Fame & Exhibition Center

Hip Hop Hall Of Fame

Bluegrass Music Hall of Fame & Museum

Musician's Hall Of Fame

Texas Conjunto Hall Of Fame & Museum

Folk Music Hall Of Fame

kitbradley said:

rogifan said:

This year there was a lot of criticism of Whitney and Biggie getting in saying they're not rock and roll. The rock hall CEO defended the decision in the interview below saying you could marks an argument there's a direct line from Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross to Whitney Houston.

https://variety.com/2020/...203487021/

Honestly I think they should just rename it the Popular Music Hall od Fame. Then we can finally get rid of this stupid debate on whether something is rock and roll or not. Going forward there's going to be fewer guitar based bands/artists worthy of getting in and more pop acts are going to be nominated. Just open it up to anyone who's had a major impact/influence on popular music. And then retroactively induct who would fit under this new criteria (like Barbra Streisand). Under this scenario Whitney would be a no brainer. She's arguably the greatest female singer of the 20th century. Pretty much every female artist out there now was influenced by her in some shape or form.

if the RRHOF did do this what artists would you induct that might not otherwise be considered?

I didn't realize Barbara has not been inducted. No way Nippy should have got in before Babs. They are basically the same type of Pop singer. Except Babarba has a much longer career and a more extensive discography.

Nope she's not in there. But I'm guessing a lot of people don't treat her and Whitney the same. They treat Whitney similar to Madonna and Janet Jackson. Both of them have been inducted so it makes no sense Whitney wouldn't be either.

MickyDolenz said:

rogifan said:

especially since there isn't another hall of fame for non-rock popular music.

Country Music Hall Of Fame

Gospel Music Hall Of Fame

Rhythm And Blues Hall Of Fame

Songwriters Hall Of Fame

Latin Songwriters Hall Of Fame

Alabama Music Hall of Fame

Memphis Music Hall Of Fame

Blues Hall Of Fame

Polka Hall Of Fame

The Funk Music Hall of Fame & Exhibition Center

Hip Hop Hall Of Fame

Bluegrass Music Hall of Fame & Museum

Musician's Hall Of Fame

Texas Conjunto Hall Of Fame & Museum

Folk Music Hall Of Fame

Other than the songwriters hall of fame and country music hall of fame how many of those have the same caché as the RRHOF? And which one of those would someone like Barbra Streisand be inducted into?

MickyDolenz said:

Do you really think rock bands like Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Metallica, or Pink Floyd would want to be inducted in a "pop hall"? I don't think many of them would show up. I doubt a Public Enemy type of rap group would want to be in there either. Some of them had few, if any, pop hits, even though they might have sold a lot of albums. Sister Rosetta Tharpe & Miles Davis did not have any Top 40 pop hit singles, so would not really qualify for a Pop Hall Of Fame. But they are inducted in the Rock n Roll Hall.

Well if popular is a dirty word then call it something else. But it should be broader than rock and roll. And don't anyone say rap and hip hop are rock and roll. Please.

rogifan said:
Other than the songwriters hall of fame and country music hall of fame how many of those have the same caché as the RRHOF? And which one of those would someone like Barbra Streisand be inducted into?

The main reason the Rock Hall has clout is because the founders of Rolling Stone magazine started it. They probably have interviewed the performers or wrote stories about them in the time since they started in the late 1960s. Rolling Stone is probably the most known music based magazine, rock or otherwise. At least in the USA, which is where the Rock Hall is. That is how they get the acts to perform and have HBO to broadcast it. Also notice they don't do the inductions where the Hall is located in Cleveland Ohio, but in NYC where the artists are more likely to go to. There is no equivalent magazine for pop music. Just starting a Pop Hall is not going to make anyone want to show up to it. Maybe if Billboard magazine created a museum, maybe they could get performers to attend. But Billboard is about all music, not just mainstream popular music. It also has charts for sales of video games, DVDs, concert grosses, etc. Billboard is not really read by the general public anyway like RS is. Very few stores carry Billboard and it costs a lot of money for a subscription. It's primarily read by people in the industry.

It is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Rock and Roll has a lot of branches, all flowing from common roots.

What we know and what has been marketed as "Rock Music" is just one branch.

Yes. That would end those stupid discussions.

rogifan said:

MickyDolenz said:

Rhythm And Blues Hall Of Fame

Blues Hall Of Fame

The Funk Music Hall of Fame & Exhibition Center

Hip Hop Hall Of Fame

Other than the songwriters hall of fame and country music hall of fame how many of those have the same caché as the RRHOF?

But without R&B, Blues, Funk, and Hip-Hop artists, would the RRHOF have the same "caché" as it does now? Nope. Because it would be simply a "Rock Hall," which it is not.

There's no need to change the name. The RRHOF is accurately named as it is.

No music after Elvis went into the army should be allowed.

namepeace said:

rogifan said:

Other than the songwriters hall of fame and country music hall of fame how many of those have the same caché as the RRHOF?

But without R&B, Blues, Funk, and Hip-Hop artists, would the RRHOF have the same "caché" as it does now? Nope. Because it would be simply a "Rock Hall," which it is not.

There's no need to change the name. The RRHOF is accurately named as it is.

R&B, blues and funk, yes. And all are represented in the RRHOF. Hip hop? Sure I guess if you don't actually care about music.

End it and have a beer.

rogifan said:

namepeace said:

But without R&B, Blues, Funk, and Hip-Hop artists, would the RRHOF have the same "caché" as it does now? Nope. Because it would be simply a "Rock Hall," which it is not.

There's no need to change the name. The RRHOF is accurately named as it is.

R&B, blues and funk, yes. And all are represented in the RRHOF. Hip hop? Sure I guess if you don't actually care about music.

But apparently none of those genres, even the ones you deign so gracefully to acknowledge, are "rock" to you, but you acknowedge that but for (at least) 3 of them, the RRHOF wouldn't have the brand it does today.

Because the term rock and roll is broad per se.

So again, the name is fine.

Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam are in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, but Prince isn't?

WTH?

rogifan said:

Hip hop? Sure I guess if you don't actually care about music.

You are for Whitney Houston and she had some stuff produced by Wyclef, who is a rapper. She was married to Bobby Brown and New Edition is one of the first R&B groups to combine singing & rapping in their songs. They also had some breakdancing & popping in their dance moves. The New Jack Swing sound is based on hip hop beats and go-go. Part of Jam & Lewis sound is hip hop and they also do a lot of sampling. Even some symphony orchestras are using hip hop sounds now and it's common in modern jazz. These other acts have also either worked with rappers, hip hop producers, or used hip hop sounds:

Blondie
Teena Marie
Michael Jackson
Janet Jackson
Wham!

Tito Puente
Sting
Mick Jagger
Weird Al

Bruce Springsteen
Little Steven (the 1985 Sun City song had rappers on it)
Quincy Jones

Cameo

ZZ Top

Brand New Heavies

Craig David
Aretha Franklin
Sérgio Mendes
James Brown
Janelle Monáe
Stevie Wonder
Tommy Lee (from Mötley Crüe)
Dolly Parton
Jody Watley
Kenny Rogers
Lionel Richie
Willie Nelson

Miles Davis
Kenny G

B.B. King
Johnnie Taylor
Elton John
Paul McCartney
Bob Dylan
Anthrax
Aerosmith
Duran Duran
Phil Collins
Tori Amos
Gloria Estefan
Madonna
Aaliyah
Shanice Wilson
Red Hot Chili Peppers (Flea has also said he is a big fan of J Dilla)
Faith No More
Tony! Toni! Toné!
Gladys Knight & The Pips
Limp Bizkit
Eddie Van Halen
En Vogue
R. Kelly
TLC
Prince
Santana
Isley Brothers
Mary J. Blige
Rick James
Morris Day
Daryl Hall & John Oates
Gap Band / Charlie Wilson
Mariah Carey
Boy George
The Temptations
The Dramatics
Billy Ocean
Midnight Star
New Kids On The Block
Herb Alpert
Herbie Hancock
Bootsy Collins
George Clinton
Big Audio Dynamite
Luther Vandross
Tevin Campbell
Korn

No it should not be changed. I get peoples issues this is rock that isnt rock, but to call it POPULAR when some acts in there were popular for a minute makes no sense. If anything call it the Music Hall of Fame, but then you better start doing research ON EVERYONE because there will be years that Josh Groban will beat out a band and everyone will be pissed, but MUSIC is music. Its called Rock because of the writers and Cleavland and things like that. People who say Janet and Whitney are not ROCK are the same that said No to Duran Duran but then why Depeche Mode or the Cure since Duran opened the door to video which is the MAIN reason most artists now are even recognized. Where would MADONNA be without MTV or Janet or artists that had second careers, The Cars, Chicago etc...

lastdecember said:

No it should not be changed. I get peoples issues this is rock that isnt rock, but to call it POPULAR when some acts in there were popular for a minute makes no sense. If anything call it the Music Hall of Fame, but then you better start doing research ON EVERYONE because there will be years that Josh Groban will beat out a band and everyone will be pissed, but MUSIC is music. Its called Rock because of the writers and Cleavland and things like that. People who say Janet and Whitney are not ROCK are the same that said No to Duran Duran but then why Depeche Mode or the Cure since Duran opened the door to video which is the MAIN reason most artists now are even recognized. Where would MADONNA be without MTV or Janet or artists that had second careers, The Cars, Chicago etc...

I think their criteria for who gets in and who doesn't is whack. For instance Joan Jett gets in because there's some Runaways movie out there and this helps promote it. If Joan Jett and Stevie Nicks are worthy how the heck is Pat Benetar not? She doesn't have the right connections or refuses to schmooze the right people? And artists like Barbra Streisand and Whitney Houston might not be considered rock and roll if it's being defined as guitar based music but they absolutely had a huge influence on women in music. Mariah, Celine, Beyoncé, Christina, Jennifer Hudson, etc. probably wouldn't exist without Whitney paving the way.

When the announcements came out this year all I saw on social media was what a joke, how are Whitney and Biggie rock and roll blah blah blah. That's why I say change the name. I chose popular music HOF just because Music HOF is incredibly broad. Would that then include classical? Opera? Country? That's way too broad.

The Hall clearly isn't exclusively a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but honestly there isn't any one name or label that would please everyone that you could stick on any Hall that encompasses many different genres .

rogifan said:

Mariah, Celine, Beyoncé, Christina, Jennifer Hudson, etc. probably wouldn't exist without Whitney paving the way

They wouldn't exist without hip hop either, except Celine. Celine had records out before Whitney, they were just in French. Pretty much Mariah Carey's entire career to this day has been doing collabo songs with whoever the current popular rappers are. She had Da Brat in her movie too. The original version of Destiny's Child (Girls Tyme) was more like TLC than Whitney.

MickyDolenz said:

rogifan said:

Mariah, Celine, Beyoncé, Christina, Jennifer Hudson, etc. probably wouldn't exist without Whitney paving the way

They wouldn't exist without hip hop either, except Celine. Celine had records out before Whitney, they were just in French. Pretty much Mariah Carey's entire career to this day has been doing collabo songs with whoever the current popular rappers are. She had Da Brat in her movie too. The original version of Destiny's Child (Girls Tyme) was more like TLC than Whitney.

And...this is why I can't stand Mariah. Oh and also because she was nothing more than Tommy Mattola's answer to Whitney.

rogifan said:

And...this is why I can't stand Mariah. Oh and also because she was nothing more than Tommy Mattola's answer to Whitney.

Technically todays Top 40 music has more in common with Mariah than Whitney, since most mainstream popular albums are full of features, usually rappers. Very few has only the main singer/band on them. Unless you count those Jermaine Jackson duets Whitney did. Also I would say Michael, Janet, or Paula Abdul are more of an influence than Whitney, because it's common for singers to dance now or have a bunch of dancers behind them. Whitney could not dance. Even Milli Vanilli is an influence since some acts lip-sync in concert and not only Top 40 pop dance acts. There's been a few classic rock acts today who have been rumored to lip-sync or have background tracks when they perform. Milli Vanilli was also a Clive Davis act like Whitney.

CynicKill said:

The Music Hall of Fame.

Makes the most sense to me

thedoorkeeper said:

Should have called it The Rolling Stone Hall of Fame from the start cause that's what it is.

Yes actually that is probably the best answer.