People not accepting Lizzo's size is the reason Martha Wash never caught on and had to do ghost vocals for other groups and singers to make money. Luther Vandross was constantly yo-yo dieting. Ironically, there's the joke that big Luther was better than skinny Luther. The Fat Boys were kind of seen as a comedy group who made songs about eating. The rise of music videos with MTV made looks more important. It seems to me that bigger women are more accepted in gospel music than secular.

CherryMoon57 said:

It's basically the same problem we had with skinny models but in reverse. Not a good thing.

But the reason for skinny models is that they were told that being fat or even plus size was bad and they couldn't get any work that way. Karen Carpenter died because she thought she was fat, so didn't eat. Bulimia & anorexia are things because people are told being bigger is unattractive. People are only concerned with health when the people are bigger. They don't say anything about the millions of people who mostly eat fast food, artificial & modified "foods" in supermarkets with lots of chemicals that people can't pronounce and food dyes or people who smoke or drink alcohol. Even with athletes who take steroids, the comments are mostly about "cheating" and not about the affects of the drugs on their health. People watch boxing, UFC, and NFL where men & women constantly get hit in the head and aren't worried about their health. Many folks aren't concerned about the health of homeless people either. Also, what about the health of people who can't get seen by doctors because they don't have money or insurance? People watch movies/TV shows where stuntment get hurt all the time and occasionally are killed doing stunts, but they don't stop watching. People even put videos of themselves of Youtube doing dangerous things or having schoolyard fights.

MickyDolenz said:

CherryMoon57 said:

It's basically the same problem we had with skinny models but in reverse. Not a good thing.

But the reason for skinny models is that they were told that being fat or even plus size was bad and they couldn't get any work that way. Karen Carpenter died because she thought she was fat, so didn't eat. Bulimia & anorexia are things because people are told being bigger is unattractive. People are only concerned with health when the people are bigger. They don't say anything about the millions of people who mostly eat fast food, artificial & modified "foods" in supermarkets with lots of chemicals that people can't pronounce and food dyes or people who smoke or drink alcohol. Even with athletes who take steroids, the comments are mostly about "cheating" and not about the affects of the drugs on their health. People watch boxing, UFC, and NFL where men & women constantly get hit in the head and aren't worried about their health. Many folks aren't concerned about the health of homeless people either. Also, what about the health of people who can't get seen by doctors because they don't have money or insurance? People watch movies/TV shows where stuntment get hurt all the time and occasionally are killed doing stunts, but they don't stop watching. People even put videos of themselves of Youtube doing dangerous things or having schoolyard fights.

100 wrongs don't make a right

MickyDolenz said:

People not accepting Lizzo's size is the reason Martha Wash never caught on and had to do ghost vocals for other groups and singers to make money. Luther Vandross was constantly yo-yo dieting. Ironically, there's the joke that big Luther was better than skinny Luther. The Fat Boys were kind of seen as a comedy group who made songs about eating. The rise of music videos with MTV made looks more important. It seems to me that bigger women are more accepted in gospel music than secular.

Yes, I was just thinking this myself. I wonder if weight affects the voice's vibrations.

RJOrion said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Has anyone noticed the sudden rise of overweight ladies being 'worshipped' everywhere? Supposedly destined to make all women feel proud and happy in their own body whilst promoting 'diversity'. That's good in itself, but the downside it that it also normalises unhealthiness. It's basically the same problem we had with skinny models but in reverse. Not a good thing.

ive definitely noticed it

Glad to hear that not everyone's gone blind

CherryMoon57 said:

No one's hating on Lizzo's size.

In fact the reason she hasn't had more pushback is proof of that.

Say Margot Robbie decided to wear an assless dress to a Lakers game showcasing her thong and did a dance for the whole world to see.

There'd be pushback.

It's kinda a "family" environment.

RJOrion said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Glad to hear that not everyone's gone blind

while 'they' also normalize often dangerous plastic surgery for all the people who want to lose or add weight overnight, by making "celebrities" out of all these talentless build-a-body (and build-a-face) women in the entertainment industry... its a mad mad world

indeed

CherryMoon57 said:

Yes, I was just thinking this myself. I wonder if weight affects the voice's vibrations.

I don't think the acceptance has anything to do with that. There's a lot of plus size people in church including some preachers. The audience for gospel & contemporary Christian music are mainly believers. It doesn't get a lot of maintream media coverage, and doesn't get played on hit radio stations. Gospel songs have rarely became Top 40 pop hits. Gospel choirs have been used on secular acts songs though. Anyway, gospel is about promoting Jesus and God, less about an image/look or getting photos in teen magazines and rock magazines like secular acts, especially post-MTV. A lot of acts before that probably wouldn't make it in the MTV era. It's true that "video killed the radio star". On the reverse, would Paula Abdul have been a big hit before the 1980s without music videos? I remember Rolling Stone magazine had an article wondering why Phil Collins was so popular in the 1980s since he wasn't a pretty boy and was losing his hair. It's probably KISS in the mid 1970s who probably was the first act who really became really huge primarily with their look more than the music. Without the makeup and huge platform boots, they probably wouldn't have made it as they didn't get a lot of Top 40 airplay. It also helped that KISS wasn't on a major label. Their look helped to sell their merchandise. KISS probably made more money from their merchandise than their records. Who else sells their own KISS Kasket? Not even The Beatles or Elvis Presley.

CynicKill said:

No one's hating on Lizzo's size.

I guess you haven't read some of the comments on her music videos on Youtube and it was happening before this basketball thing. I've also seen negative comments about actresses like Gabourey Sidibe.

CynicKill said:

It's kinda a "family" environment.

Have you ever listened to a Kidz Bop album?

MickyDolenz said:

CynicKill said:

It's kinda a "family" environment.

Have you ever listened to a Kidz Bop album?

Don't they censor out all the naughty bits?

phunkdaddy said:

Cinny said:

Thank you. And in a normally hetero-sexist atmosphere, Lizzo would be welcomed if she fit their idea of a cheerleader body type.

To be fair Cardi B has received just as much criticism if not more for pussy poppin/twerking and

she has the prototype body.

Stop with all of that reason and logic.

Its all because shes overweight! She's a victim, damnit and you're not going to take that away as being the one and only possible reason anyone could ever have any problem with her!

CynicKill said:

Don't they censor out all the naughty bits?

There's around 40 albums in this series. If a song has profanity, they change the curse words to something else. But the other lyrics aren't really changed much, it's just children singing them, like the Kidz Bop versions of Nelly's Dilemma & Finesse by Bruno Mars & Cardi B. It's not much different than the dirty & clean versions of 2 Live Crew albums. The songs are the same, just one is made for radio airplay and doesn't have a parental advisory sticker and Walmart will carry it. Walmart does not sell stickered albums.

MickyDolenz said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Yes, I was just thinking this myself. I wonder if weight affects the voice's vibrations.

I don't think the acceptance has anything to do with that. There's a lot of plus size people in church including some preachers. The audience for gospel & contemporary Christian music are mainly believers. It doesn't get a lot of maintream media coverage, and doesn't get played on hit radio stations. Gospel songs have rarely became Top 40 pop hits. Gospel choirs have been used on secular acts songs though. Anyway, gospel is about promoting Jesus and God, less about an image/look or getting photos in teen magazines and rock magazines like secular acts, especially post-MTV. A lot of acts before that probably wouldn't make it in the MTV era. It's true that "video killed the radio star". On the reverse, would Paula Abdul have been a big hit before the 1980s without music videos? I remember Rolling Stone magazine had an article wondering why Phil Collins was so popular in the 1980s since he wasn't a pretty boy and was losing his hair. It's probably KISS in the mid 1970s who probably was the first act who really became really huge primarily with their look more than the music. Without the makeup and huge platform boots, they probably wouldn't have made it as they didn't get a lot of Top 40 airplay. It also helped that KISS wasn't on a major label. Their look helped to sell their merchandise. KISS probably made more money from their merchandise than their records. Who else sells their own KISS Kasket? Not even The Beatles or Elvis Presley.

I get you and I agree about looks being used to trigger the audiences attention. The music industry will only select what they want to show people at any given time. As for gospel singers, I am sure there are many thin gospel singer in there too, you just don't notice them as much lol.

MickyDolenz said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Lizzo was exposing herself in a public setting outside of a performance or an event she was a part of.

Then why all the fuss about Janet Jackson at the Superbowl and her getting blacklisted by Les Moonves? She was doing a scheduled performance at an event she was part of.

Nothing happened to Justin Timberlake and he was invited to perform at the halftime show again.

CherryMoon57 said:

Has anyone noticed the sudden rise of overweight ladies being 'worshipped' everywhere? Supposedly destined to make all women feel proud and happy in their own body whilst promoting 'diversity'. That's good in itself, but the downside it that it also normalises unhealthiness. It's basically the same problem we had with skinny models but in reverse. Not a good thing.

Very true! What should matter most is health and being healthy, and being obese is not healthy, no matter how you look at it! Women feeling proud and happy in their own body is fine, well, and good, but being healthy in your own body is what's most important.

[Edited 2/8/20 10:12am]

CherryMoon57 said:

As for gospel singers, I am sure there are many thin gospel singer in there too, you just don't notice them as much lol.

Didn't say there wasn't. I just said that bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight. I grew up with gospel and went to church every Sunday and sometimes other days of the week if there was a program. I had some older relatives that only listened to gospel and didn't want any secular music played in their house. They called it blues or "devil's music". All non gospel was "blues" to them, no matter what genre it actually was.

MickyDolenz said:

CherryMoon57 said:

As for gospel singers, I am sure there are many thin gospel singer in there too, you just don't notice them as much lol.

Didn't say there wasn't. I just said that bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight. I grew up with gospel and went to church every Sunday and sometimes other days of the week if there was a program. I had some older relatives that only listened to gospel and didn't want any secular music played in their house. They called it blues or "devil's music". All non gospel was "blues" to them, no matter what genre it actually was.

I think that maybe bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight, because people in church are not there to notice and talk about how big a gospel singer is, or comment on their weight, but there to hear the word of God, and to worship during the songs that the gospel singers sing, so they really don't care how big they are, to a certain degree. However, I'm sure that they notice, and if they are a relative of someone in the church, I'm sure that they are concerned for their health, and may tell them in private. Most people I know, that grew up in the church, including myself, have obese relatives that sang in church, and it was definitely noticed, but they were never put down about it, especially not in church, because most of us go to church to worship God only, and hear the word of God, nothing more.

MotownSubdivision said:

RJOrion said:

typing just to see themselves type..

Like people who go into a thread about a Madonna song to talk about how they like Donna Summer instead?

RJOrion said:

gospel singers arent put down for their weight because they keep their clothes on and dont twerk their asses for public consumption...

But Miley Cyrus was praised for twerking in the media and is even given credit for popularizing it to the mainstream. Such as in articles like this: Did Miley Cyrus help 'twerk' land in the dictionary?

looby said:

MickyDolenz said:

Didn't say there wasn't. I just said that bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight. I grew up with gospel and went to church every Sunday and sometimes other days of the week if there was a program. I had some older relatives that only listened to gospel and didn't want any secular music played in their house. They called it blues or "devil's music". All non gospel was "blues" to them, no matter what genre it actually was.

I think that maybe bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight, because people in church are not there to notice and talk about how big a gospel singer is, or comment on their weight, but there to hear the word of God, and to worship during the songs that the gospel singers sing, so they really don't care how big they are, to a certain degree. However, I'm sure that they notice, and if they are a relative of someone in the church, I'm sure that they are concerned for their health, and may tell them in private. Most people I know, that grew up in the church, including myself, have obese relatives that sang in church, and it was definitely noticed, but they were never put down about it, especially not in church, because most of us go to church to worship God only, and hear the word of God, nothing more.

True. But imagine for a moment what would happen if these gospel singers suddenly turned up in church (un)dressed and behaving like Lizzo.

MickyDolenz said:

CherryMoon57 said:

looby said:

I think that maybe bigger sized singers in gospel are not put down for their weight, because people in church are not there to notice and talk about how big a gospel singer is, or comment on their weight, but there to hear the word of God, and to worship during the songs that the gospel singers sing, so they really don't care how big they are, to a certain degree. However, I'm sure that they notice, and if they are a relative of someone in the church, I'm sure that they are concerned for their health, and may tell them in private. Most people I know, that grew up in the church, including myself, have obese relatives that sang in church, and it was definitely noticed, but they were never put down about it, especially not in church, because most of us go to church to worship God only, and hear the word of God, nothing more.

True. But imagine for a moment what would happen if these gospel singers suddenly turned up in church (un)dressed and behaving like Lizzo.

Oh my, please don't put that image into my head.

ok...bye... we'll see you back in less than a month...

macaylasdad said:

ok...bye... we'll see you back in less than a month...

She never stopped posting on Instagram.