PennyPurple said:

Tontoman22 said:

You can disagree all you like. Clive Davis signed Houston to be a major pop star, PERIOD. The choice of YGGL as the first single came from her first manager, in case she flopped in the pop market he wanted her to have an R & B career as a back up. Her entire career was strongly marketed. Davis ran full page ads in billboard magazine for 3 months straight (her debut album). The marketing and the payola was there to push her singles. She had one gold single in 80 IWDWS, the changing Hot 100 chart calutations and the clout of Davis is what got her 7 #1 singles. Many are not remembered DWAHIA & WDBHG, becasue they were bought and paid for by Arista (and should have never top the charts). When MTV went to a top 40 format at the end of 1984, Davis still had trouble getting her music on the rotation lists, but that was because they were ballads. He smartly hire Brian Grant to do the video for How Will I Know, she made rotation and got played in heavy rotation in Januray 1986, then the Greatest Love of All followed. In March her album when to #1 after being around for over a year. And started selling alot. It was all marketing and business. And yes, I usually only here the uptempo songs IWDWS & HWIK.

[Edited 11/10/19 10:04am]

Just watched the Netflix documentary on Clive last night. It talks about this. It's a great documentary!

Cool, thanks I will have to check it out

[Edited 11/13/19 19:25pm]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Rock & Roll is another name for Rhythm & Blues so why wouldn't they agree? All those are extensions of Rock & Roll. If you want to get technical not one of the nominees is doing Rock & Roll as it was done in the 50s.

You could say this about almost any current music. Chris Brown & Ella Mai songs don't have much in common with Chubby Checker or Louis Jordan. They weren't full of tattoos either. Justin Bieber is on the #1 country song this week. Neither Justin or Dan + Shay sounds like 1940s or 1950s country. 5th Harmony doesn't sound like the girl groups of the early 1960s. Mary Mary & Kirk Franklin is not like The Fisk Jubilee Singers, Soul Stirrers, or Mahalia Jackson. Even Broadway showtunes are different like Hamilton.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Rock & Roll is another name for Rhythm & Blues so why wouldn't they agree? All those are extensions of Rock & Roll. If you want to get technical not one of the nominees is doing Rock & Roll as it was done in the 50s.

You could say this about almost any current music. Chris Brown & Ella Mai songs don't have much in common with Chubby Checker or Louis Jordan. They weren't full of tattoos either. Justin Bieber is on the #1 country song this week. Neither Justin or Dan + Shay sounds like 1940s or 1950s country. 5th Harmony doesn't sound like the girl groups of the early 1960s. Mary Mary & Kirk Franklin is not like The Fisk Jubilee Singers, Soul Stirrers, or Mahalia Jackson. Even Broadway showtunes are different like Hamilton.

The sound of most genres have changed signifcantly. R&B has morphed into something that I don't even recognize from what I grew up on in the 70s and 80s. Country music today sounds more like Pop/Rock. Defintely not the Dolly Pardons, Kenny Rogers and Loretta Lynns I was listening to when I was a kid. Rock & Roll has mutated into something a lot more different over the past 30 years. 15 to 20 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50% of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame nominees will be Hip-Hop artists.

kitbradley said:

I don't see that. They barely have Hip-Hop acts now.
Future Hip-Hop artist I see making it are Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem and possibly Kanye and Snoop.
Rakim, LL and Kane are possibilities
Groups are Wu Tang and Tribe Called Quest amd OutKast and Salt-n-Pepa.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

They barely have Hip-Hop acts now.

So you're saying XXXTentacion, Post Malone, Young M.A, DaBaby, Childish Gambino, Big Sean, Kendrick Lamar, Nicki Minaj, Trina, Drake, & all of the rappers with Lil' in their name aren't going to make it? Why not? Pretty much when it's their time, the boomer era founders probably will not still be here. It will be today's generation and future generations doing the inducting. I doubt that the millennials are going to go back and induct a lot of acts before their time like Motorhead or Rufus. Millennials in general seem to be less into nostalgia than boomers. Also streaming music is like here today, gone tomorrow. They don't have a record/tape/CD collection to see what music was popular.

With cancel culture, they might not have a lot of people from any genre to induct in the future because someone decided to dig up their old Tweets from 20 years ago where they said something offensive to the future voters. They might even remove people in already. James Brown beat up women? He can't be in there. These British Invasion bands have to go because they were doing cultural appropriation. Have to take out all of these drug addicts/alcoholics, a dude marrying his cousin, satanists, wicca, and guys sleeping with teenaged groupies. Earth Wind & Fire have Illuminati symbols on their album covers, take them out. There won't be a hall left.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

kitbradley said:

The sound of most genres have changed signifcantly. R&B has morphed into something that I don't even recognize from what I grew up on in the 70s and 80s. Country music today sounds more like Pop/Rock. Defintely not the Dolly Pardons, Kenny Rogers and Loretta Lynns I was listening to when I was a kid. Rock & Roll has mutated into something a lot more different over the past 30 years. 15 to 20 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50% of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame nominees will be Hip-Hop artists.

I don't see that. They barely have Hip-Hop acts now. Future Hip-Hop artist I see making it are Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem and possibly Kanye and Snoop. Rakim, LL and Kane are possibilities Groups are Wu Tang and Tribe Called Quest amd OutKast and Salt-n-Pepa.

Back in the 80s and 90s, who would have thought Hip-Hop artists would ever be considered or inducted??? And look at what's happening now. They are being inducted over more traditional artists who have been around a lot longer. Hip-Hop is the Rock & Roll of this generation. So, yeah, a few years from now, the list of nominees will look very different from what we are used to seeing.

kitbradley said:

It's literally like 5 Hip-Hop acts in.
Flash & Furious Five
Run-DMC
NWA
Public Enemy
Tupac
That's if.
If that was the case Fresh Prince, Queen Latifah and Ice T would have been in years ago.

LL Cool J has been nominated like 5 times.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Rock & Roll is another name for Rhythm & Blues so why wouldn't they agree? All those are extensions of Rock & Roll. If you want to get technical not one of the nominees is doing Rock & Roll as it was done in the 50s.

You could say this about almost any current music. Chris Brown & Ella Mai songs don't have much in common with Chubby Checker or Louis Jordan. They weren't full of tattoos either. Justin Bieber is on the #1 country song this week. Neither Justin or Dan + Shay sounds like 1940s or 1950s country. 5th Harmony doesn't sound like the girl groups of the early 1960s. Mary Mary & Kirk Franklin is not like The Fisk Jubilee Singers, Soul Stirrers, or Mahalia Jackson. Even Broadway showtunes are different like Hamilton.

Rock and Roll was just a name for pop music in the 50s, the moderan rock era (or pop era) started in 1964. What we see is most ppl that complain about the nominees not truly being rock, act like rock is late 60's, 70's ,80s and maybe 90's rock, most dominated by white artists but that what the majority of the ppl complaining view as rock.

Tontoman22 said:

Rock and Roll was just a name for pop music in the 50s

But parents of white teenagers and preachers were complaining about rock n roll. That didn't really happen with what was called pop like Rosemary Clooney & Doris Day. Rock n roll was said to cause juvenile delinquency and it was the music of the devil. Some called white rock n roll singers "n-lovers" and rock was jungle bunny music, the same happened with jazz before it and people complained about the flapper generation who listened to it. Johnny Cash said a singer (which he didn't name) at the Grand Ole Opry called Elvis Prelsey a n-lover. Notice that the government decided to have the payola trials when rock n roll (aka music originated by black people) became popular with white teenagers, when payola was used long before rock n roll. When R&B/rock n roll was mostly in the juke joints and chitlin circuit, it didn't have the same notice by the powers that be. They weren't worried about payola when crooners was the mainstream popular music. They tried to kill rock n roll, but it didn't work in the long run.

Tontoman22 said:

Nope, Pop music in the 50s was Doris Day, Johnny Mathis, Bing Crosby and run of the mill singers like that.

lastdecember said:[quote]

As much as I love Depeche Mode, never should be in before Duran Duran, since as far as influence, you pretty much can say DD made music videos an art form, gave MTV life, which in turn gave ALOT of 80's artists second lives, new lives and a LIFE.


Depeche mode sold more records, had more hits than DD. They even had a big fanbase in the GDR. Speaking of Videos: Anton Corbijn and Depeche mode - Behind the wheel or Enjoy the silence for instance!?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Tontoman22 said:

Rock and Roll was just a name for pop music in the 50s, the moderan rock era (or pop era) started in 1964. What we see is most ppl that complain about the nominees not truly being rock, act like rock is late 60's, 70's ,80s and maybe 90's rock, most dominated by white artists but that what the majority of the ppl complaining view as rock.

Nope, Pop music in the 50s was Doris Day, Johnny Mathis, Bing Crosby and run of the mill singers like that.

Not sure what you are on about, but most successful artist of the 50s' worldwide (on the charts) was Elvis Presley; then Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Miles Davis, Perry Como, Harry Belafonte, Bill Haley and the Comets, Johnny Mathis, Thelonious Monk & Frankie Laine. I was talking about what most ppl who complain about the nominess today view as rock music.

[Edited 11/15/19 18:36pm]

[Edited 11/15/19 18:37pm]