skywalker said:

If MTV didn't kill it,

MTV killed itself when it stopped showing music videos to show programs like My Super Sweet 16 and Jersey Shore. "♫Reality TV killed the video star♫"

Rock n' roll is alive - and thriving - on Bandcamp, indie labels and alt radio.

MickyDolenz said:

skywalker said:

Seriously, with all his "chart success" can you honestly say that Drake has had a bigger impact on pop culture than, say, MC Hammer did in his time?

The Kardashian family has a bigger impact on today's pop culture than MC Hammer or Drake and they don't really do anything and became millionaires or billionaires doing it. There's hardly a day that goes by that they're not mentioned on TV in some way including on the news. So what's your point?

You totally reinforced my point. Success on the music charts/radio means nothing these days. Drake seemingly has "more chart success" than Michael Jackson, yet the Kardashian''s have a bigger influence on pop culture. Think about that. You posted a bunch of chart info about Drake that is essentially meaningless. Those chart stats have no weight in terms of being a barometer of popularity or impact on pop culture. As I said, 21st century pop music is a cultural wasteland.

There's also Youtube stars and people getting lots of views reacting to movie trailers and music videos or opening a box of something they ordered. Unknown singers/bands doing covers of current hits such as Bodak Yellow and Old Town Road get millions of views. Paul McCartney put a video on Youtube with Black Beatles by Rae Sremmurd playing in the background for the mannequin challenge. There's a lot of talent shows on TV like American Idol, The Masked Singer, The Voice, Lip Sync Challenge, Dancing With The Stars, Drop The Mic, America's Got Talent, etc. You think these shows would be on if enough people are not watching them? Taylor Swift is popular because she's on the radio and people watch her videos on Youtube. Anyway commercial chart radio has always worked off of payola. James Brown used to pay some DJs himself to play his records in the 1960s. It doesn't matter if you listen to the radio or not, millions of people still do and some jobs have the radio playing and modern hits are played at sporting events too. So it's not dead to the mainstream.

1. Define popular. Compare American Idol or The Voice's viewership numbers to the top shows from 10 or 20 years ago. TV numbers are WAY down. The major networks are in trouble. There are so many options for people out there.

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The number one show on a major network can exist these days and most of the people in the country aren't even watching it. That didn't used to the case. Likely, you'll never have a moment like the Beatles on Ed Sullivan or Michael doing the moonwalk on Motown 25. Meaning, rarely do you have a moment that MOST of the United States saw. Save for sporting events, like the Superbowl.

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2. Taylor Swift IS popular. She also just did a capitol one credit card commercial. Like I said, radio and pop music is basically a corporately dictated entity now. Poor Taylor Swift should be writing slave on her face.

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3. Yep. Payola in radio has always existed. Yet, James Brown's chart success was not dictated by airplay at all. His success was dictated by actual sales. James Brown's charts success was because people bought his music. Back in the 60's and 70's soundscan wasn't a thing, and charts weren't based on airplay. If anything, acts like James Brown's sales were likely undercounted and he should have actually had MORE success on the charts.

[Edited 10/1/19 6:45am]

MickyDolenz said:

skywalker said:

If MTV didn't kill it,

MTV killed itself when it stopped showing music videos to show programs like My Super Sweet 16 and Jersey Shore. "♫Reality TV killed the video star♫"

Totally agreed. Imagine if MTV would have been better managed. Instead of being hollow reality trash, MTV should have been what both youtube and spotify is now. The one stop shop for ALL pop music.

[Edited 10/1/19 6:14am]

Rock and Roll is dying because people get older and die. It will always have a historical place. The sig below was just a matter of time - no great artistic upheaval occured to 'crown' Hip Hop the norm now. Something else will come along and eventually replace it too.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras

skywalker said:

Totally agreed. Imagine if MTV would have been better managed. Instead of being hollow reality trash, MTV should have been what both youtube and spotify is now. The one stop shop for ALL pop music.

I don't think it would have made a difference if MTV continued to show videos. The main MTV channel is the one with just about an entire reality format. MTV kind of started the reality show craze in the first place with The Real World in the 1990s. Would there have later been all of these "Housewives of So and So" without the success of Real World? But there were alternate channels like MTV Jams & VH-1 Soul. Youtube is closer to the 1980s channel Video Jukebox, where you paid a fee to request the music video you wanted to see and they had a lot of videos that MTV didn't show just like Video Soul did on BET. With Youtube, there's no charge and people can see the video instantly and as many times as they want and any time they want. MTV was like the radio where you had to watch a programmed playlist. Later they had different shows for different genres (Yo MTV Raps, Headbangers Ball).

The Masked Singer style shows are like in the 1970s a when lot of singers and actors had a variety TV series or special (Donny & Marie, The Jacksons, Captain & Tennille, James Brown Future Shock, Sonny & Cher, The New Bill Cosby Show, Brady Bunch Hour, Leslie Uggams Show, Natalie Cole, etc.). Except in a Gong Show / Star Search format. Music stars have had reality shows about their lives too like T.I., Salt N Pepa, SWV, Puff Daddy. This happened after the success of the one about Ozzy Osbourne's family. I guess this is how Sharon got the gig on the daytime talk show The Talk. She was just the manager of metal bands before The Osbournes show. Sharon was not known to the mainstream public and neither was Kelly & Jack. Notice the daughter who declined to participate (Aimee) in the reality show is lesser known.

You gotta keep moving forward, if rock music is just reduced to Led Zep cosplay like Greta Van Fleet then it deserves to die. Hip Hop is bigger because it's still innovating, don't think it can't turn into boring rehashes either though.

jaawwnn said:

You gotta keep moving forward, if rock music is just reduced to Led Zep cosplay like Greta Van Fleet then it deserves to die. Hip Hop is bigger because it's still innovating, don't think it can't turn into boring rehashes either though.

I fucking WISH we could have a "boring rehash" of golden era hip hop. Rock seems to have no problem sticking to the program. Hip hop won't even use the same samplers anymore.

Cinny said:

jaawwnn said:

You gotta keep moving forward, if rock music is just reduced to Led Zep cosplay like Greta Van Fleet then it deserves to die. Hip Hop is bigger because it's still innovating, don't think it can't turn into boring rehashes either though.

I fucking WISH we could have a "boring rehash" of golden era hip hop. Rock seems to have no problem sticking to the program. Hip hop won't even use the same samplers anymore.

I admit I'm more of a fan of golden age hip hop as well but i'm a bigger rock than rap fan and I really dislike photocopy rock. There's plenty of stuff that still sounds new out there, it's just usually not selling that well.

Have we all listened to the new Hold Steady album? That's some new classic rock that manages to sound fresh, even though the band have been going for 15 odd years.

[Edited 10/2/19 9:01am]

jaawwnn said:

Cinny said:

I fucking WISH we could have a "boring rehash" of golden era hip hop. Rock seems to have no problem sticking to the program. Hip hop won't even use the same samplers anymore.

I admit I'm more of a fan of golden age hip hop as well but i'm a bigger rock than rap fan and I really dislike photocopy rock. There's plenty of stuff that still sounds new out there, it's just usually not selling that well.

Have we all listened to the new Hold Steady album? That's some new classic rock that manages to sound fresh, even though the band have been going for 15 odd years.

Even the whole "we get together and plug in our guitars" arrangement of a rock band is OLD. I agree that's how things should be but hip hop is way ahead even in that regard. Collaborations happening across different continents because it is essentially electronic music.

Cinny said:

jaawwnn said:

You gotta keep moving forward, if rock music is just reduced to Led Zep cosplay like Greta Van Fleet then it deserves to die. Hip Hop is bigger because it's still innovating, don't think it can't turn into boring rehashes either though.

I fucking WISH we could have a "boring rehash" of golden era hip hop. Rock seems to have no problem sticking to the program. Hip hop won't even use the same samplers anymore.

My God I agree! I call modern rap "hissy rap" because that's what it is - absolute Crap. REALLY wouldn't mind more of the old stuff!