BigBlue1894 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

see post #44

.

As I said earlier, it's easy to target a public person, but everyone pointing the finger in judgement, lets pull up the recordings of what we've all said in private (off camera lol) in the privacy of your space, with friends and family... prejudiced things, bigoted things, sexist things, homophobic things...

What he said was definitely racist. If you said those things in 1976, you'd also be a racist then. It took Clapton over 40 years to apologise for the outburst.

Back in 1976 there wasn't a thing called political correctness. People just came out and said it, times have changed.

It wasn't right in 1976 and it isn't right in 2019.

I don't know if this is the 1st time he has ever apologized or not, but at least he did. Actions are what matters.

BigBlue1894 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

see post #44

.

As I said earlier, it's easy to target a public person, but everyone pointing the finger in judgement, lets pull up the recordings of what we've all said in private (off camera lol) in the privacy of your space, with friends and family... prejudiced things, bigoted things, sexist things, homophobic things...

What he said was definitely racist. If you said those things in 1976, you'd also be a racist then. It took Clapton over 40 years to apologise for the outburst.

No one questioned if it was or wasn't racist. That isn't the premise of your thread.

It was also 1976. Literally 43 yrs ago. An extreme alcoholis and drug addict.

There are Black folk who rail against racism, yet make bigoted comments about other ethnic groups, call each other Ni&&a(just slang for the real thing) are extremely homophobic and use language that clearly tells they have women on a lower level of purpose.

Many famous black folk have said some extreme things in 1976, I still would give them grace to have changed. I talked to a lot of my African-American brothers when it came to Prince's Lovesexy album cover, and the things said... and they did not buy it for those very things.

If Eric still feels/believe that way, then he is a xenophobic bigot still. If he does not then he is not.

DaveT said:

Think that's bad, check out The Beatles original version of Get Back ... and people still think the sun shines out of their backsides ...

That's just ignorant. Everybody knows teh No Pakistani version of Get Back was a satire aimed at Enoch Powell's rants and his 'Rivers of Blood' speach and the National Front party.
If you bothered to listen to the bootleg recording of the song you would hear Paul McCartney actually explain that and the fact that it was a protest song. Same with Commonwealth Song and White Power from the same sessions.
You really think Billy Preston would be playing on the song or work with them if it wasn't satire

PennyPurple said:

BigBlue1894 said:

What he said was definitely racist. If you said those things in 1976, you'd also be a racist then. It took Clapton over 40 years to apologise for the outburst.

Back in 1976 there wasn't a thing called political correctness. People just came out and said it, times have changed.

It wasn't right in 1976 and it isn't right in 2019.

I don't know if this is the 1st time he has ever apologized or not, but at least he did. Actions are what matters.

Agreed. And in fairness, people called him out for in 1976 as well, sure they organized Rock Against Racism as a direct result of it!

I like to hold out the possibility that people can change and reject their past behaviour. Apparently, in the recent documentary about his life, Clapton distances himself from the remarks, chalking it up to his self-destructive trajectory at that time.

Maybe that's true, but it does bear noting that he expressed support for Enoch Powell as late as 2004, calling him "outrageously brave" in an interview long after he'd sobered up. And, prior to 2017, he tended to remain silent about the incident, rather than retracting and apologising for his statements.

These mindsets often seem to be riven with contradictions, though, I suppose - as per the old scene from Do The Right Thing about the racist whose heroes are all Black.

DaveT said:

Think that's bad, check out The Beatles original version of Get Back ... and people still think the sun shines out of their backsides ...

Those lyrics were a parody of some racist British dude named Enoch. The Beatles were not racists.

BigBlue1894 said:

It seems hard to believe that someone who has embraced black music as much as Clapton has is someone whose rant at a 1976 gig in Birmingham UK, inspired the Rock Against racism campaign.

His words were as follows.

You decide

"Are there any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. W*gs I mean. I'm looking at you. Where are you? I'm sorry but some fucking w*g Arab grabbed my wife's bum you know. Surely got to be said. This is what all the foreigners and w*gs over here are like. Just disgusting. That's just the truth. So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall. Leave our country. I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch’s our man. I think Enoch’s right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the w*gs out. Get the c**ns out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. F*cking w*gs, man. F*cking Saudis taking over London. B*stard w*gs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black w*gs and c**ns and Arabs and f*cking Jamaicans and f*cking… don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black w*gs and c**ns living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want f*cking w*gs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country. What is happening to us, for f*ck’s sake?”

I mean, in that quote, he sounds MAGA af (maybe MBGA to be exact). He was NEVER held accountable for those horrific comments, and here he is, just being allowed to cook. once I learned about him being on this BS he's been on side-eye. though reading above in the thread, he actually did apologize? News to me

deebee said:

I like to hold out the possibility that people can change and reject their past behaviour. Apparently, in the recent documentary about his life, Clapton distances himself from the remarks, chalking it up to his self-destructive trajectory at that time.

Maybe that's true, but it does bear noting that he expressed support for Enoch Powell as late as 2004, calling him "outrageously brave" in an interview long after he'd sobered up. And, prior to 2017, he tended to remain silent about the incident, rather than retracting and apologising for his statements.

These mindsets often seem to be riven with contradictions, though, I suppose - as per the old scene from Do The Right Thing about the racist whose heroes are all Black.

Co-sign, especially the second paragraph. It's why I have doubts about Clapton's sincerity. But I have less faith in humanity than most.

uPtoWnNY said:

Fuck Clapton and ALL racists.

just don't support the person $ if you ever did, if you never did, what does he matter

OldFriends4Sale said:

just don't support the person $ if you ever did, if you never did, what does he matter

What does it matter 2 support racist? lol.........I'll let u figure that out.

Graycap23 said:

Fuck Clapton and ALL racists.

I make your words mine: fuck racists. I lost my respect for Clapton after reading this. What a ridiculous rant and, even if he was drunk, then he said what he thought before being drunk, because that's what every drunk does. They say what they really think since alcohol takes the filters away. Truly disappointed.

Graycap23 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

just don't support the person $ if you ever did, if you never did, what does he matter

What does it matter 2 support racist? lol.........I'll let u figure that out.

There is nothing to figure out.

I say, what is all of this fuck energy going to do?

.
I mean if you were an EC fan and bought his stuff, and now say F him, then you don't support him by buying his stuff.
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If you or anyone else were never fans anyway and never bought anything of his stuff, then what does any of this matter. Eric isn't a holy man, politician, social-secular leader etc then this is just bla bla for the sake of bla bla

.

You just stop watching/listening/buyiing EC stuff, what else is there

I have to laugh at all this faux outrage over what Clapton did 40 years ago in a drunken, drug fueled rant. Again, where is this same outrage with Trump for being racist every.single.day?

IfItAintToy said:

Graycap23 said:

Fuck Clapton and ALL racists.

I make your words mine: fuck racists. I lost my respect for Clapton after reading this. What a ridiculous rant and, even if he was drunk, then he said what he thought before being drunk, because that's what every drunk does. They say what they really think since alcohol takes the filters away. Truly disappointed.

Alcohol is the great revealer.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

I have to laugh at all this faux outrage over what Clapton did 40 years ago in a drunken, drug fueled rant. Again, where is this same outrage with Trump for being racist every.single.day?

Right, and it's like oookkaaay what next? do we throw him out of office, do we persecute him in American courts?(that was a British thing) do we go around the world and police every countries 'celebs'? Some people complaining(and I'm talking about outside the org) don't like Arabs themselves. These people are people just like the rest of us, they are just known in a bigger way...who's making threads on the African-American rappers who spew sexist, misogenistic and homophobic comments knowingly... you know that will be excused.

What next, go org get em

Let's review everything all singers/musicians have said and weigh em in the balance

OldFriends4Sale said:

PennyPurple said:

I have to laugh at all this faux outrage over what Clapton did 40 years ago in a drunken, drug fueled rant. Again, where is this same outrage with Trump for being racist every.single.day?

Right, and it's like oookkaaay what next? do we throw him out of office, do we persecute him in American courts?(that was a British thing) do we go around the world and police every countries 'celebs'? Some people complaining(and I'm talking about outside the org) don't like Arabs themselves. These people are people just like the rest of us, they are just known in a bigger way...who's making threads on the African-American rappers who spew sexist, misogenistic and homophobic comments knowingly... you know that will be excused.

What next, go org get em

Let's review everything all singers/musicians have said and weigh em in the balance

Exactly and yet when another racist is brought into the mix that is currently doing and saying racists things, they want to control other peoples posts.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PennyPurple said:

I have to laugh at all this faux outrage over what Clapton did 40 years ago in a drunken, drug fueled rant. Again, where is this same outrage with Trump for being racist every.single.day?

Right, and it's like oookkaaay what next? do we throw him out of office, do we persecute him in American courts?(that was a British thing) do we go around the world and police every countries 'celebs'? Some people complaining(and I'm talking about outside the org) don't like Arabs themselves. These people are people just like the rest of us, they are just known in a bigger way...who's making threads on the African-American rappers who spew sexist, misogenistic and homophobic comments knowingly... you know that will be excused.

What next, go org get em

Let's review everything all singers/musicians have said and weigh em in the balance

I don't have a dog in the fight with the Eric Clapton debate but please do explain what you mean

by this statement. Truth is the majority of people on this board(who are probably 40 and over) don't even post threads about rappers particularly rappers that are in vogue today. 50 Cent says dumb shit maybe about once a week but it's par for the course for him and I don't waste any energy with his nonsense. You can throw Cardi B in there as well. No need to give her that energy. She is who she is. I don't know where you were going with this blanket statement but you failed to mention Eminem who is not an African American rapper who has probably said more foul shit knowingly than 50 Cent ever has in his heyday. Has that been excused by his predominantly suburban fan base?

Asking for a friend. I don't care for either one of them.

phunkdaddy said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Right, and it's like oookkaaay what next? do we throw him out of office, do we persecute him in American courts?(that was a British thing) do we go around the world and police every countries 'celebs'? Some people complaining(and I'm talking about outside the org) don't like Arabs themselves. These people are people just like the rest of us, they are just known in a bigger way...who's making threads on the African-American rappers who spew sexist, misogenistic and homophobic comments knowingly... you know that will be excused.

What next, go org get em

Let's review everything all singers/musicians have said and weigh em in the balance

I don't have a dog in the fight with the Eric Clapton debate but please do explain what you mean

by this statement. Truth is the majority of people on this board(who are probably 40 and over) don't even post threads about rappers particularly rappers that are in vogue today. 50 Cent says dumb shit maybe about once a week but it's par for the course for him and I don't waste any energy with his nonsense. You can throw Cardi B in there as well. No need to give her that energy. She is who she is. I don't know where you were going with this blanket statement but you failed to mention Eminem who is not an African American rapper who has probably said more foul shit knowingly than 50 Cent ever has in his heyday. Has that been excused by his predominantly suburban fan base?

Asking for a friend. I don't care for either one of them.

It's a music board though. A wide variety of musicians and artists are discussed throught the ORG

How much Jazz is discussed, you would think mostly over 40s members would be more likely than younger to be into it and talking about it.

.

And I don't think everyone is 40 and over. Some do pretend to be. I find that too many orgers have a wrong perception about 'who' is actually on the other side of the computers; from age, to race, ethnicity, nationality and gender even. And it really doesn't matter how many people talk about it really. The Org talks about almost everything directly or within topics.

.

I did not fail to mention Eminem. I did not mention any rapper by name. I mentioned who I wanted to because people can complain about a racist statement said 40yrs ago, but will there be condemnation for sexist misogynist or homophobic statement, lyrics and beliefs by rap artists. Or is there a 'racism' is worse than the latter mentality. Most of the people I've communicated with off Org who are flaring up about this 43yrs later don't know the context of when/where this was done, most think it was in the US and toward black American folk, they don't know what W)g means and who that is directed at, and most were not even Eric Clapton fans or followers.

.
Who is throwing away their Soul On Ice Eldridge Cleaver books...

.
I'm over 40 and I was listening to rap music in the early stages when it was just a drum machine and a rapper ...UTFO, Roxanne Shante/the Real Roxanne etc on 45s, I was at the Fresh Fest concerts I still have my favorites. and we talked about the Black Panter soundtrack on the Org too, I bought it thinking it was the score from the movie. Kendrick Lamar. I don't think there is one song that is full of the N word and Bitch. I couldn't take the album back to get an exchange, and I wasn't going to give it away to support that... crack crack snap in the garbage

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I doubt some of the people with the F Eric attitude, ever really listened to him to begin with.

.

Everything he said 43yrs ago was xenophobic and racist. It was also within a British(not USA) situation directed at 'W)gs' Indians, Arabs, Africans, Meditteraneans. So again, what do we do with all of flare up. I gave solutions. What do we do with Artists/Entertainers/Musicians of any racial, gender persuasion.

.

.

Is it me, or do all rappers sound the same?

https://prince.org/msg/8/428442

New songs by female rappers

https://prince.org/msg/8/457733

R.W.S. (Rappers With Sensitivity) Thread

https://prince.org/msg/8/450861

.

On another note: African British actress Cynthia Erivo faces backlash playing 'Harriet Tubman'

RJOrion said:

alot of rationalizing and deflection tactics being used here... a microcosm of society, and discussions on racism between blacks and whites, in general

no deflection or rationalizing what Eric said, the issue is ok, now what?

The OP asked a question, you discuss and reason things out

Again it seems you want people to concede to the way you want them to think...

He isn't a priest, politician or a figure that people generally do something about...

Outside of 'rape/molestations' when it comes to musicians etc in a situation like this, him not even being American what do we do? what's the next step...

for those who never followed Eric or listened to his music, what's next?

so what do you do, he apologized actually prior to 2017/18 so like in any human situation you move on with it. What do you do about it...

OldFriends4Sale said:

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

no deflection or rationalizing what Eric said, the issue is ok, now what?

The OP asked a question, you discuss and reason things out

Again it seems you want people to concede to the way you want them to think...

He isn't a priest, politician or a figure that people generally do something about...

so what do you do, he apologized actually prior to 2017/18 so like in any human situation you move on with it. What do you do about it...

i dont want anyone to concede or do anything...and nothing in my comments points to that.. you and pennypurple are the ONLY ones suggesting that people "complain about trump"..."throw away your Eldridge Cleaver books"..."make threads about african american rappers", etc..in a thread thats asks a singular question; "Was Eric Clapton a racist?"...that is literally the definition of deflection tactics

your post is directly wanting people to 'not do something' it is accusatory.

What do you want people to say? Everyone is admitting what he said was racist and xenophobic.

He said it in 1976 40+ years ago,

.

what now?

What's the next step?

.

You're not comprehending, but getting offended that people are not saying what you want to hear like in the Madonna thread about the watermelon.

.

Choose your battles.

.
What do you want to happen with the Eric Clapton issue. He apologized, what next? Force him to take a lie detector test? who wants to cast the first stone?

Burn his albums? You probably don't have any.

.

It's not deflecting. I'm not someone who complains about stuff for the sake of it. Inaction is extemely irritating. What next RJOrion? I'm not deflecting I said, there is a difference in musicians and politicians/religious people. So if we are going to FUCK YOU Eric, are we going to FUCK YOU to all the other musicians that said/did things of prejudiced/xenophobic/homophobic/misongynistic/sexist nature? And if not, then why not. Or are we just Fucking Eric Clapton here.

What next RJOrion?

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

no deflection or rationalizing what Eric said, the issue is ok, now what?

The OP asked a question, you discuss and reason things out

Again it seems you want people to concede to the way you want them to think...

He isn't a priest, politician or a figure that people generally do something about...

so what do you do, he apologized actually prior to 2017/18 so like in any human situation you move on with it. What do you do about it...

i dont want anyone to concede or do anything...and nothing in my comments points to that.. you and pennypurple are the ONLY ones suggesting that people "complain about trump"..."throw away your Eldridge Cleaver books"..."make threads about african american rappers", etc..in a thread thats asks a singular question; "Was Eric Clapton a racist?"...that is literally the definition of deflection tactics

What do we do? He was a social political figure, not a guitarist with a mediocre voice.

Fuck (Black Panther Founder - conservative Republican)Eldridge?

.

.

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In the most controversial part of the book, Cleaver acknowledges committing acts of rape, stating that he initially raped black women in the ghetto "for practice" and then embarked on the serial rape of white women. He described these crimes as politically inspired, motivated by a genuine conviction that the rape of white women was "an insurrectionary act". When he began writing Soul on Ice, he unequivocally renounced rape and all his previous reasoning about it.

When I considered myself ready enough, I crossed the tracks and sought out white prey. I did this consciously, deliberately, willfully, methodically – though looking back I see that I was in a frantic, wild and completely abandoned frame of mind. Rape was an insurrectionary act. It delighted me that I was defying and trampling upon the white man's law, upon his system of values, and that I was defiling his women...I felt I was getting revenge. From the site of the act of rape, consternation spread outwardly in concentric circles. I wanted to send waves of consternation throughout the white race.

— Eldridge Cleaver, Soul on Ice, 1968

After spending seven years in exile in Cuba, Algeria, and France, Cleaver returned to the US in 1975, where he became involved in various religious groups (Unification Church and CARP) before finally joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as becoming a conservative Republican, appearing at Republican events.

OldFriends4Sale said:

phunkdaddy said:

I don't have a dog in the fight with the Eric Clapton debate but please do explain what you mean

by this statement. Truth is the majority of people on this board(who are probably 40 and over) don't even post threads about rappers particularly rappers that are in vogue today. 50 Cent says dumb shit maybe about once a week but it's par for the course for him and I don't waste any energy with his nonsense. You can throw Cardi B in there as well. No need to give her that energy. She is who she is. I don't know where you were going with this blanket statement but you failed to mention Eminem who is not an African American rapper who has probably said more foul shit knowingly than 50 Cent ever has in his heyday. Has that been excused by his predominantly suburban fan base?

Asking for a friend. I don't care for either one of them.

It's a music board though. A wide variety of musicians and artists are discussed throught the ORG

How much Jazz is discussed, you would think mostly over 40s members would be more likely than younger to be into it and talking about it.

.

And I don't think everyone is 40 and over. Some do pretend to be. I find that too many orgers have a wrong perception about 'who' is actually on the other side of the computers; from age, to race, ethnicity, nationality and gender even. And it really doesn't matter how many people talk about it really. The Org talks about almost everything directly or within topics.

.

I did not fail to mention Eminem. I did not mention any rapper by name. I mentioned who I wanted to because people can complain about a racist statement said 40yrs ago, but will there be condemnation for sexist misogynist or homophobic statement, lyrics and beliefs by rap artists. Or is there a 'racism' is worse than the latter mentality. Most of the people I've communicated with off Org who are flaring up about this 43yrs later don't know the context of when/where this was done, most think it was in the US and toward black American folk, they don't know what W)g means and who that is directed at, and most were not even Eric Clapton fans or followers.

.
Who is throwing away their Soul On Ice Eldridge Cleaver books...

.
I'm over 40 and I was listening to rap music in the early stages when it was just a drum machine and a rapper ...UTFO, Roxanne Shante/the Real Roxanne etc on 45s, I was at the Fresh Fest concerts I still have my favorites. and we talked about the Black Panter soundtrack on the Org too, I bought it thinking it was the score from the movie. Kendrick Lamar. I don't think there is one song that is full of the N word and Bitch. I couldn't take the album back to get an exchange, and I wasn't going to give it away to support that... crack crack snap in the garbage

.
I doubt some of the people with the F Eric attitude, ever really listened to him to begin with.

.

Everything he said 43yrs ago was xenophobic and racist. It was also within a British(not USA) situation directed at 'W)gs' Indians, Arabs, Africans, Meditteraneans. So again, what do we do with all of flare up. I gave solutions. What do we do with Artists/Entertainers/Musicians of any racial, gender persuasion.

.

.

Is it me, or do all rappers sound the same?

https://prince.org/msg/8/428442

New songs by female rappers

https://prince.org/msg/8/457733

R.W.S. (Rappers With Sensitivity) Thread

https://prince.org/msg/8/450861

.

On another note: African British actress Cynthia Erivo faces backlash playing 'Harriet Tubman'

I never said all orgers were forty and over. I said the majority more than likely are. You don't have to tell me about Jazz. I'm a jazz fan here but if one started a jazz thread here on a Prince message board the topic will most likely go by the wayside. I just attended a jazz concert in June with Gerald Albright, Johnathan Butler, and Michael McDonald. Jazz just isn't a very popular topic with the org which is why I don't bother. I was there during the conception of rap music Sugar Hill, Kurtis Blow, etc. and through the 80's,90's, and early 2000's but I'm not into the bullshit rap has evolved into today. No I'm not that huge of an Eric Clapton fan but do like a few of his songs and love his guitar work on Phil Collins I Wish It Would Rain which is why I stated I don't have a dog in the fight. You may be right on the fact that people are commenting on Eric about a comment made 40 years ago but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to voice their opinion about it. How many Trump supporters get on line and complain about LeBron James giving his opinions on world relations and they call him a dumb jock who barely gratutated from high school when in fact he is more articulate than they would ever know? My response is Kobe Bryant didn't go to college and is affluent in 3 foreign languages something that they aren't. Just because you didn't attend college doesn't mean you're dumb and half of the people talking shit about them probably didn't attend college either. I brought up the Eminem example because your statement said and implied that only African American rappers said misogynistic and homophobic things. The Beastie Boys whom I was a fan of weren't free from controversy either. I just brought up Eminem because he was one of the more offensive and controversial rappers in history but his predominantly suburban fanbase didn't seem to mind or complain. I'm not excusing any rappers of said behavior but I'm not gonna let Eminem off the hook either. Truth is the topic is definitively about Eric Clapton I was just curious to see why you brought African American rappers into it as though there weren't any white rappers or rock artists who have been just as offensive.

RJOrion said:

honestly?....im done with this thread...and i was done with the Madonna thread days ago...ive answered the original question posed by the OP, and exchanged thoughts and elaborated further, to my content... like i said, black people discussing racism with white people is most times a no-win situation...for either side..it is what it is...you go your way and ill go mine.. [Edited 7/26/19 10:08am]

And there is your problem. You think everyone should think or react as you, and if they are not they must be white, and therefore must be a racist. I dear one, am not white.

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You show your colors kiddo
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reference:
Saw it and was like that is a skirt and a dress in a perspective twist. I don't have Instagram nor Facebook, so was clueless this was a thing. As a long time fan of Madonna and very "Black" I was like non story ....next.

I'll ask one last time or is it more of a statement: what is the next move with Eric Claption