purple05 said:

automatic said:

purple05 said:

You say it like she didn’t know James wasn’t around. LaToya has said none of that was true and that she was being abused. I guess you only believe victims when it fits your narrative

Listen to the audio and tell me she's making that up off the cuff and that fast on Howard's Stern's show for over a half hour straight without stammering or being vague. If she was going to lie back then why didn't she just say she saw abuse. All she said was she saw checks.Why would she specifically bring up Safechuck's name? His family could have sued her. Plus Howard's show would be the worst show to go on and try to lie. He asks a ton of follow ups. Of course she says she was lying back then. She wanted to get back in good with her family and yes her ex husband could have abused her also but that doesn't mean she wasn't also telling the truth about her family being dysfunctional.

You know it's amazing to me that as the years have gone by, especially in the almost 10 yrs following MJ's death, even before these accusations from Robson and Safechuck, she has come across as the most sane and genuine Jackson. I'm with you on this. I do think Latoya was abused but I also think she spilled some real truth tea during those years. I won't even act like I wasn't saying how insane, brainwashed and desperate she was back then but now, with the benefit of hindsight I do think she was telling the truth. In "Jackson terms", Latoya is transparent and I appreciate that. For the record, I also believe what she's said about Michael's death, that Murray was the "fall guy" and there was something much bigger at play. I totally believe that!!

MotownSubdivision said:

I'll say this as well.

As strange as it is that a grown man would sleep in the same bed as someone else's kids, if that grown man didn't do anything inappropriate with those kids then I don't see how you can automatically label him a pedophile. At best, it's suspect but if literally the only thing to occur between an adult and child in bed is slumber then there's no real issue. ...there is with the parents of these children in either scenario, however.

But any grown man who does so will be presumed to be a pedophile and/or in need of serious personal or medical intervention for gross lapses of judgment. That's a reasonable (but as you say, rebuttable) presumption. Even if I did not believe MJ did anything inappropriate, I could not fault anyone for making the presumption that he did.

True, in 2019, any parent who allows that grown man to do so, even if that grown man were a relative, could be stripped of custody or perhaps even prosecuted for that alone.

LaToya was very close with Michael, but then she said some VERY unforgivable things, airing dirty laundry, etc. But then her family forgave her and took her back in, despite pointing blame elsewhere and making excuses for why she said those things. SHE said them. She called out her brother, her mother, her dad, and talked about very private things happening to her and her other siblings, right there in a book and also in maybe a dozen different television interviews for the whole world to see. Yet her family didn't disown her, they eventually forgave her and took her back in, almost like nothing happened. Why? Why would they do that? Really, why?

Free2BMe said:

SoulSplash said:

I believe it because I was one of "those" boys. It is absolutely how it happens, how it makes you feel, how you see them as your hero, how you want to protect them, how you feel special and loyal to them, etc. Then when you have your own kid, it makes you feel sick about it all. Never mind straining at gnats, people. There's no doubt their stories are true, for it's my story, too.

Let’s consider this scenario: Did you do tributes to your accuser? Did you get on a court stand and voluntarily testified on your accusers behalf and say nothing happened? Did you. Continue those tributes even after your accuser died when you could easily have made claims against your accuser? There was nothing holding you back after accuser was dead. Did younSUDDENLY come up with accusations after you were turned down for a job from your accusers estate? Did you file a 1.5 billion lawsuit against an estate when you couldn’t extort money? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, then you would be a liar. I now have a problem with People claiming to be “victims”. You may be a real victim, I don’t know. However, there is infinite PROOF that Robson and Safechuck are NOT victims. Their SCRIPT doesn’t fit the timeline, the locations, the scenario, the supposed incident, etc. NOTHING fits. That’s why I know they are lying. They are no more a victim than I am, and I am not a victim. Their ACTING is harming real victims. Their pedophilic FANTASIES are what they WANTED to happen. None of it did. Sadly, that’s the situation with these two proven liars, perjurers, extortionists and scam artists.

.

I loved the person I was with and looked up to him. It was very much like having a boyfriend on the side. I was into girls and he knew it and was proud of how much girls liked me, too... Because on the side, we still had what others wanted with us, we had each other. As I got older, 14-16+, I was actually heartbroken when I knew the relationship was changing and we weren't "a thing" anymore. It wasn't that I was upset that we wouldn't be doing those certain things together anymore (I never fully instigated or sought that for myself), but it was that I was no longer "that" special to him which hurt me the most. I had grown out of his "age of attraction" and communication between us became scattered. We'd still go out to eat sometimes, laugh and have good chats. He'd email me on my birthday, talk to me through social media once in awhile. Now looking back, maybe it was his way of making sure we were still "okay" with each other about everything?

.

But yeah, I would've done tributes for him if I could and showed off what he taught me, proudly giving him credit. I was all into him and how he made me feel. I was grateful for him being there for me and his help getting me to where I could take off on my own. No one outside of my mother ever made me feel that special, certainly not a man or male role model. I loved it and ate it all up, despite how he would eventually manipulate what we were going to end up doing with each other. It did feel like love. And no, I feel no need to sue, no matter if there was a lot of money to be had or not. I can understand why some of the accusers/victims came forward while Jackson was still alive. Would or could they make people believe them? Probably not. But those who know, know. It doesn't matter to me that "other" people really need to "know". I take a Culkin stance on this; however, knowing what I know, especially at this age, I would feel terrible guilt for trying to protect the one who made me feel special by calling other (supposed) victims "liars." I figure I wasn't the only one. You see it when their eyes light up at someone else like they used to do with you.

.

Also, to speak to another point you make, several of us here in this thread have brought up how memory is an iffy thing. I would not expect them to know exact details about most things. I don't. But like most everyone else here, I'm sure, I do remember my first sexual experience, and I do remember many other very private things that happened to me, especially when it was different and new. The frequency of things happening and the many different places will cause your memory to blur a lot of it together, forgetting what exactly happened when or where, but there are certain things you don't forget and will never forget. When the "impact" of a particular event hits you, it stays with you from that moment forward. At least it does and did for me. Yeah, I believe them.

.

[Edited 4/4/19 12:52pm]

SoulSplash said:

But yeah, I would've done tributes for him if I could and showed off what he taught me, proudly giving him credit. I was all into him and how he made me feel. I was grateful for him being there for me and his help getting me to where I could take off on my own. No one outside of my mother ever made me feel that special, certainly not a man or male role model. I loved it and ate it all up, despite how he would eventually manipulate what we were going to end up doing with each other. It did feel like love. And no, I feel no need to sue, no matter if there was a lot of money to be had or not. I can understand why some of the accusers/victims came forward while Jackson was still alive. Would or could they make people believe them? Probably not. But those who know, know. It doesn't matter to me that "other" people really need to "know". I take a Culkin stance on this; however, knowing what I know, especially at this age, I would feel terrible guilt for trying to protect the one who made me feel special by calling other (supposed) victims "liars." I figure I wasn't the only one. You see it when their eyes light up at someone else like they used to do with you.

.

Also, to speak to another point you make, several of us here in this thread have brought up how memory is an iffy thing. I would not expect them to know exact details about most things. I don't. But like most everyone else here, I'm sure, I do remember my first sexual experience, and I do remember many other very private things that happened to me, especially when it was different and new. The frequency of things happening and the many different places will cause your memory to blur a lot of it together, forgetting what exactly happened when or where, but there are certain things you don't forget and will never forget. When the "impact" of a particular event hits you, it stays with you from that moment forward. At least it does and did for me. Yeah, I believe them.

.

[Edited 4/4/19 12:52pm]

Soul SPlash...

Most of the world is conflicted because Michael

did such a good job of grooming everyone to think that his

fixation with young children namely boys was simply an extension of his Loving ways...

he made it seem like it was the most natural thing in the world...

his "cover" Neverland ,

was also his "Lure"

..extremely manipulative being...

There will be more boys/men who come forward..

once they find the courage to face what James and Wade are facing..

Namely being vilified for talking the truth because the world is totally blinded by the worship and Adulation of their false idol.....

Michael indeed had a very bright side...

and this is the pendulous swing to his dark side...

Very hard for people to understand that both sides co exist...

especially when so extreme...

the truth will come out...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/w...5qti3T7b4o/[youtube]

SoulSplash said:

Free2BMe said:

SoulSplash said: Let’s consider this scenario: Did you do tributes to your accuser? Did you get on a court stand and voluntarily testified on your accusers behalf and say nothing happened? Did you. Continue those tributes even after your accuser died when you could easily have made claims against your accuser? There was nothing holding you back after accuser was dead. Did younSUDDENLY come up with accusations after you were turned down for a job from your accusers estate? Did you file a 1.5 billion lawsuit against an estate when you couldn’t extort money? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, then you would be a liar. I now have a problem with People claiming to be “victims”. You may be a real victim, I don’t know. However, there is infinite PROOF that Robson and Safechuck are NOT victims. Their SCRIPT doesn’t fit the timeline, the locations, the scenario, the supposed incident, etc. NOTHING fits. That’s why I know they are lying. They are no more a victim than I am, and I am not a victim. Their ACTING is harming real victims. Their pedophilic FANTASIES are what they WANTED to happen. None of it did. Sadly, that’s the situation with these two proven liars, perjurers, extortionists and scam artists.

.

I loved the person I was with and looked up to him. It was very much like having a boyfriend on the side. I was into girls and he knew it and was proud of how much girls liked me, too... Because on the side, we still had what others wanted with us, we had each other. As I got older, 14-16+, I was actually heartbroken when I knew the relationship was changing and we weren't "a thing" anymore. It wasn't that I was upset that we wouldn't be doing those certain things together anymore (I never fully instigated or sought that for myself), but it was that I was no longer "that" special to him which hurt me the most. I had grown out of his "age of attraction" and communication between us became scattered. We'd still go out to eat sometimes, laugh and have good chats. He'd email me on my birthday, talk to me through social media once in awhile. Now looking back, maybe it was his way of making sure we were still "okay" with each other about everything?

.

But yeah, I would've done tributes for him if I could and showed off what he taught me, proudly giving him credit. I was all into him and how he made me feel. I was grateful for him being there for me and his help getting me to where I could take off on my own. No one outside of my mother ever made me feel that special, certainly not a man or male role model. I loved it and ate it all up, despite how he would eventually manipulate what we were going to end up doing with each other. It did feel like love. And no, I feel no need to sue, no matter if there was a lot of money to be had or not. I can understand why some of the accusers/victims came forward while Jackson was still alive. Would or could they make people believe them? Probably not. But those who know, know. It doesn't matter to me that "other" people really need to "know". I take a Culkin stance on this; however, knowing what I know, especially at this age, I would feel terrible guilt for trying to protect the one who made me feel special by calling other (supposed) victims "liars." I figure I wasn't the only one. You see it when their eyes light up at someone else like they used to do with you.

.

Also, to speak to another point you make, several of us here in this thread have brought up how memory is an iffy thing. I would not expect them to know exact details about most things. I don't. But like most everyone else here, I'm sure, I do remember my first sexual experience, and I do remember many other very private things that happened to me, especially when it was different and new. The frequency of things happening and the many different places will cause your memory to blur a lot of it together, forgetting what exactly happened when or where, but there are certain things you don't forget and will never forget. When the "impact" of a particular event hits you, it stays with you from that moment forward. At least it does and did for me. Yeah, I believe them.

.

[Edited 4/4/19 12:52pm]

.

This is all really well put. Thank you for taking the time to write it out.

SoulSplash said:

Free2BMe said:

You sound as if you weren’t a victim, but into a man/boy relationship that you actually endorsed, participated in with FULL knowledge of what you were doing.Its interesting that nothing in your “story” makes you seem as if you regret your experience. Did you wait until you were an adult and tell people that’d you were abused? I don’t know if you mentioned that in your “story”. Another thing that I find interesting is that your “story” tries to tie in the SCRIPTED narrative of the two actors/liars/perjurers/extortionists and really it doesn’t relate to each other. Am I wrong in thinking that you and this man STILL are in a relationship? If so, what does your “story” have to do with Robson and Safechuck’s FANTSIES of having sex with Michael. Of course, I know you can ascertain that these are fantasies that Safechuck and Robson actually WANTED to happen. The fact that none of what they claimed happened, really seems to be disturbing especially to Safechuck. He was obsessed with Michael as a child and his parents would have to take him away. Let’s remember that his mother was with him everytime they went to Neverland. He was never there by himself, and the few times he was there were sporadic and not regular. You can still see that this grown add man, SafeCHECK is STILl obsessed with Michael. None of this has anything to do with abuse, because nothing happened. However, SafeCHECK still fantasizes about what he WANTED to happen. That’s why this very disturbed man says Michael bought Neverland for him.WTF? How mentally ill and obsessed do you have to be to even utter those words as a grown man? In actuality, how mentally ill do you have to be to even consider believing this shit? It’s things like this that should ring a bell with intelligent people. Alas, we are not dealing with a rational and intelligent group of people. We are dealing with people who are WANT this to be true to fit THEIR agenda. We are dealing with vindictive, jealous people who are either too lazy to,research facts, or just not intelligent enough to do so. Bottomline is your experience was a willing man/boy relationship that you participate in and seemily it went on for years and you kept going back. IMO, you don’t seem to consider yourself a victim and seem to be endorsing this sick relstionsip. FTR, that is just what Dan Reed is doing. He is endorsing NAMBLA (man/boy sex) propaganda, and it is revolting that he is using Robdon and Safechuck to spread this SCRIPT. Your “ story” seems to support the NAMBLA doctrine.

You seem to know a lot about Nambla...

you also seem to know very little about Abuse,

particulalry how Grooming can make people do things that they dont want to do,

whats more,

in doing the things they dont want to do THEY are made to feel its their fault...

There is a very excellent Netflix Documentary called Abducted in Plain sight

Watch it and see just how cunning and manipulative sexual abusers can be...

All the while garnering your compassion and Sympathy...

I never wanted these things to be true about Michael...

but I can no longer stick my head in the sand...

Free2BMe said:

SoulSplash said:

.

I loved the person I was with and looked up to him. It was very much like shaving a boyfriend on the side. I was into girls and he knew it and was proud of how much girls liked me, too... Because on the side, we still had what others wanted with us, we had each other. As I got older, 14-16+, I was actually heartbroken when I knew the relationship was changing and we weren't "a thing" anymore. It wasn't that I was upset that we wouldn't be doing those certain things together anymore (I never fully instigated or sought that for myself), but it was that I was no longer "that" special to him which hurt me the most. I had grown out of his "age of attraction" and communication between us became scattered. We'd still go out to eat sometimes, laugh and have good chats. He'd email me on my birthday, talk to me through social media once in awhile. Now looking back, maybe it was his way of making sure we were still "okay" with each other about everything?

.

But yeah, I would've done tributes for him if I could and showed off what he taught me, proudly giving him credit. I was all into him and how he made me feel. I was grateful for him being there for me and his help getting me to where I could take off on my own. No one outside of my mother ever made me feel that special, certainly not a man or male role model. I loved it and ate it all up, despite how he would eventually manipulate what we were going to end up doing with each other. It did feel like love. And no, I feel no need to sue, no matter if there was a lot of money to be had or not. I can understand why some of the accusers/victims came forward while Jackson was still alive. Would or could they make people believe them? Probably not. But those who know, know. It doesn't matter to me that "other" people really need to "know". I take a Culkin stance on this; however, knowing what I know, especially at this age, I would feel terrible guilt for trying to protect the one who made me feel special by calling other (supposed) victims "liars." I figure I wasn't the only one. You see it when their eyes light up at someone else like they used to do with you.

.

Also, to speak to another point you make, several of us here in this thread have brought up how memory is an iffy thing. I would not expect them to know exact details about most things. I don't. But like most everyone else here, I'm sure, I do remember my first sexual experience, and I do remember many other very private things that happened to me, especially when it was different and new. The frequency of things happening and the many different places will cause your memory to blur a lot of it together, forgetting what exactly happened when or where, but there are certain things you don't forget and will never forget. When the "impact" of a particular event hits you, it stays with you from that moment forward. At least it does and did for me. Yeah, I believe them.

.

[Edited 4/4/19 12:52pm]

You sound as if you weren’t a victim, but into a man/boy relationship that you actually endorsed, participated in with FULL knowledge of what you were doing.Its interesting that nothing in your “story” makes you seem as if you regret your experience. Did you wait until you were an adult and tell people that’d you were abused? I don’t know if you mentioned that in your “story”. Another thing that I find interesting is that your “story” tries to tie in the SCRIPTED narrative of the two actors/liars/perjurers/extortionists and really it doesn’t relate to each other. Am I wrong in thinking that you and this man STILL are in a relationship? If so, what does your “story” have to do with Robson and Safechuck’s FANTSIES of having sex with Michael. Of course, I know you can ascertain that these are fantasies that Safechuck and Robson actually WANTED to happen. The fact that none of what they claimed happened, really seems to be disturbing especially to Safechuck. He was obsessed with Michael as a child and his parents would have to take him away. Let’s remember that his mother was with him everytime they went to Neverland. He was never there by himself, and the few times he was there were sporadic and not regular. You can still see that this grown add man, SafeCHECK is STILl obsessed with Michael. None of this has anything to do with abuse, because nothing happened. However, SafeCHECK still fantasizes about what he WANTED to happen. That’s why this very disturbed man says Michael bought Neverland for him.WTF? How mentally ill and obsessed do you have to be to even utter those words as a grown man? In actuality, how mentally ill do you have to be to even consider believing this shit? It’s things like this that should ring a bell with intelligent people. Alas, we are not dealing with a rational and intelligent group of people. We are dealing with people who are WANT this to be true to fit THEIR agenda. We are dealing with vindictive, jealous people who are either too lazy to,research facts, or just not intelligent enough to do so. Bottomline is your experience was a willing man/boy relationship that you participate in and seemily it went on for years and you kept going back. IMO, you don’t seem to consider yourself a victim and seem to be endorsing this sick relstionsip. FTR, that is just what Dan Reed is doing. He is endorsing NAMBLA (man/boy sex) propaganda, and it is revolting that he is using Robdon and Safechuck to spread this SCRIPT. Your “ story” seems to support the NAMBLA doctrine.

Free2BMe -- How can you even say that to someone who has been through this awful experience with a pedophile. Obviously you have no idea or experience about pedophiles. My sister's ex-husband is a pedophile. Served time in jail and got his ass kicked by other inmates once inside jail . He started on his nephew (his sisters kid) who was brave to tell his mother and she phoned the cops on her own brother. And that's not all..... he did some awful things to his own 3 children (my niece and nephews), etc.............

MJ is dead and gone.


SoulSplash, thank you for sharing. I hope by posting what you have will help your healing process.

SoulSplash said:

luv4u said:

Free2BMe said:

luv4u said:

Free2BMe -- How can you even say that to someone who has been through this awful experience with a pedophile. Obviously you have no idea or experience about pedophiles. My sister's ex-husband is a pedophile. Served time in jail and got his ass kicked by other inmates once inside jail . He started on his nephew (his sisters kid) who was brave to tell his mother and she phoned the cops on her own brother. And that's not all..... he did some awful things to his own 3 children (my niece and nephews), etc.............

MJ is dead and gone.


SoulSplash, thank you for sharing. I hope by posting what you have will help your healing process.

Dude/Dudette, what are you talking about? The person who shared his story seemed to be endorsing the RELATIONSHIP he had the guy he had sex with. He even referred to him as a boyfriend. It is nauseating and sick. Just as it is sick for Dan GReed to promote and encourage the false allegations of ROBson and SafeCHECK. He knew that what these actors/scam artists were spewing was a lie, yet, he encouraged these lies and told them to be make these lies graphic. For Greed to say that these false allegations were “fulfilling” is all I need to know about this greedy director of child porn and NAMBLA propaganda. Dan gREED is as mentally disturbed as ROBson and SafeCHECK. These three are monsters. Btw, the allegations from these grifters has more holes than Swiss Cheese. Obsessed liar SafeCHECK claimed he was abused in a train station at Neverland that didn’t even exist. A fan actually researched and found building permit that provided evidence that S check is a liar. Of course, we already knew that this mentally disturbed actor/grifter was lying. Everything he has stated has been debunked. I guess that’s why the child porn director,gREED is deleting those scenes in recent viewings. Now why would a person who was telling the truth, delete those scenes? I’ve also heard from fans in other countries that gREED has deleted the scene of ROBson burning Michael’s clothes at end of the LN child porn film. That’s because fans uncovered the fact that Wade was burning FAKE MJ memorabilia. He sold the real items to Julien Auction house, because he was broke and needed the money. Another hole in their fake allegations is That SafeCHECK says he and Michael bought wedding rings. The cashier said that sunglasses and a bracelet was bought. Damn, SafeCHECK is acting like a lovelorn bitch with his pathetic allegations. ROBsons lie of being abused every single day for 9 years has more holes than the pores in Dan gREEDS face. How can you be abused 100’s of times every day for 7 years, if you were only at Neverland 14 times. Of those 14 times, MJ was only there 4 of those times. These are just a few of the FACTS for idiots and dummies who WANT these liars fantasies to be true. Some of you people are truly as embarrassing as the child porn director, Dsn gREED. This moron is admitting that there are inconsistencies with SafeCHECK’s assertions;yet, gREED is trying to change the timeline. You can’t do thst stupid. It won’t work.

Wow. What a piece of work. Congrats on knowing the date that the third nail to the left of the right plyboard on the right wall of the train station was nailed in and other largely useless facts that are generally irrelevant in the bigger picture. Now, how about reading up on something important like how abuse (particularly child/sexual abuse) works because that you clearly haven't done. An expert of nothing. You literally just told someone they're nauseating, sick and basically allowed themselves to be abused. What the fuck is wrong with you? And I actually don't mean that in a smart ass way.

SoulAlive said:

Michael is dead.You can’t go after a dead man.Time for everyone involved to just move on

This discussion is just going in circles and getting no where. End of.