ItsLetoyaBaby said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

CynicKill said:

I have a serious question about this trashy tabliod spectacle:

If it was good enough for Joan Crawford (Mommie Dearest) and R Kelly (Surviving R Kelly) then is it not good enough for Michael Jackson?

I haven't seen "Surviving.." for this reason. And I'm not negating the validity of its claims. I just choose not to participate.

The women in R Kelly’s documentary are being proven at this moment of being liars & opportunist.

See?!

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

We can continue going back and forth on this forever, but it's not going to accomplish anything, because there will always be some that think that Michael did something wrong and some that won't, just like with R Kelly! I myself, don't know what I believe where Michael is concerned, but I think that R Kelly is as guilty as hell and believe some of the women that has come forward, and that's where I stand.

oceanblue said:

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

The new dude Jacobshagen said in his web site in 2013 that nothing sexual had ever happened to him. Fast forward some years and he is using the same narrative as Robson: that he became a father and realized it had been abuse. RIGHT! I just came back to MJ fandom and all of this is just making me want to quit. The is 1993 and 2003 all over again.

Yeah just don't start off 2019 that way.

It's a choice.

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

bonatoc said:

^ that is not the point.
Who cares it the bedroom in question is something akin to Louis XIV bedroom, with public audiences.

The point is an adult going to bed with children or adolescents, and turning the lights off.
"Rational thinking" people? It seems to me that any thinking
was greatly distorted by the simple fact it was Michael Jackson.
No one would be able to think "rationally", and it's understandable.

Now take the same situations and replace "Michael Jackson" with "an uncle"
or "a family's friend", and tell me if you still find the situation "rational".

[Edited 1/13/19 6:51am]

Thank you. What is wrong with some of these people on this thread justified this? I would never leave a child under my guidance with those people for a minute if they think there is nothing wrong with a grown ass man sharing the same bed with children.

Michael Jackson was talented but he was a sick individual.

And also even if they lied on the stand, likely to protect their abuser, I would still believe their newer allegations over his cult fans.

Fanbots weren't there or never met Michael but Wade and James and Jordie and even Mac Culkin (Mac even said he and his brother shared the same bed with Michael but claim there was never appropriateness but hey he could also did the same protect the abuser) were and don't forget his former employees who saw inappropriateness too and was paid off and even Latoya saw the check of the payoffs (this is the same woman who revealed Janet and Rene's marriage before Janet confirmed this years later)! As an abused victim myself it is easily for someone willing to lie to protect. Michael was (and still) had a powerful team would do whatever it takes to discredit the victims.

And now there is new allegation from a man in Germany who also confessed he shared the same bed with Michael and experienced sexual inappropriateness from MJ. He got the same copy of The Boy: A Photographic Essay that was found during that Santa Barbara raid. He also mentioned about Michael's drinking code with Jesus Juice. How will the fanbots going to spin this one?

At the end of the day, fans don't know these celebrities private personas (there is a reason why PR worked hard to create these fake public personas to keep the fans from knowing the reality of the celebrities) so take the fucking capes off.

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I wish this could have waited and been aired AFTER March, after my Janet gets inducted. Hopefully it won't overshadow her induction ceremony.

I hope not either and lets hope there is no drama of Ms Janet get inducted. I love some Janet. She has nothing to do with Michael's sickened issues. That is not fair for her to get affected by this.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

EmmaMcG said:

ChocolateBox3121 said: Hahaha. Yeah, they better make sure they get their priorities right.

I just don't understand why this trend of bringing back up old accusations of VERY successful black artist is coming from?The fans are still going to buy their muziq & keep them close to their hearts

Either way IT NEEDS TO STOP! The press BETTER NOT bring this up to Janet at her induction either.

[Edited 1/17/19 21:05pm]

There should be no time for sexual victims they already went through enough of being molested especially by someone who is powerful and rich and I am glad the Metoo is helping people to come out to tell their stories about being abused. You know? Don't be surprised if some sexual survivors are envy of Michael because with allegations he is not here to witness why the victims has to relive this on a daily basis for the rest of their lives.

I am sick and tired of the toxic masculinity black culture continued to make excuse and defend particularly when cigender black males fuck up (even R. Kelly was defended hardcore back in the 00s with his allergations but I am glad that even Metoo is helping younger woman of color to speak out against sexual abuse that is rampant and uncheck in the black culture) and before I get accused of being some racist white person, actually I am a black lesbian woman and I see this shit get playout with celebrities and private ones how the culture defended male predictors over the victim girls. Michael had some issues that is undeniable.

I agree the media should let Janet have her time. When Janet had her allegations with Super Bowel, I don't recall they mentioned about Michael and I hope they give her the same respect.

Free2BMe said:

@PaulJRizzo “THINK ABOUT IT LOGICALLY!!! Would MJ have allowed his first defense witness in the TRIAL OF HIS LIFE be someone he abused and raped for 7 years? That makes absolutely zero logical sense.That mere fact ALONE is enough to realize what a sham all this is.”#LeavingNeverland

Yeah. Just like molesting someone for the first time AFTER he had been accused of molesting someone. Logical thinking and people who believe this shit don't go hand in hand.

Goddess4Real said:

Free2BMe said:

Mintchip said: The problem with the doc is that it is based on two LIARS with not an ounce of evidence. It would be like me accusing you and only my side being presented with not an ounce of rebuttal. If you are willing to see the one sided lies of These two liars, why not see the actual proof that they are lying. Robson testified that nothing happened to him. He was telling the truth. Even after Michael’s death, he continued to praise Michael and talk about his goodness. Michael and his children were actually invited to family picnic at Robsons house. Those are not the actions of a damaged or abused man. Wade Robson only suddenly came up with these claims when he was not hired to be choreographer for Cirque Soleil. He even told Matt Laure that this revelation was not repressed memomory. He actually claimed that he didn’t even know that he was sexually abused until he looked at his own son.Hmmmn, why was he thinking of molestation while looking at his own son? There is something very strange about that, that I think should be investigated. Let’s not forget that this is a man who claimed that he was abused every night and he didn’t know he was being abused? Robson, who had just #@$&* Britney Spears and brokeup her relationship with Justin Timberlake, claims he didn’t know he had been sexually abused until he looked at his own son. how strange is that? Again, his SUDDEN revelation only came after he lost the job that he had been publicly bragging about. Robson is even more heinous than the grifter family who accused Michael. He waited until Michael was no longer here to defend himself. The bottomline is that Robson is a coward and would never have done this while Michael was alive. Michael’s estate didn’t fall for his and Safechuck’s extortion attempt. A judge threw out their case because it was just that ridiculous. I can guarantee you that this is all about $$$. Fake “victims” like these two liars only undermine the plight of real victims. I sense that some of you who are judging Michael are real victims, so you want to latch on to the bullshit spewed by these liars, Robson and Safechuck, Finally, why didn’t this so called director interview any of the other people (girls and boys) who visted Neverland? Why did he focus on the two liars who tried to extort money from Michael’s estate and case thrown out. Even a fifth grader would be smart enough to figure that out. [Edited 1/26/19 18:27pm]

13june2005‏ @13june2005

Here is Wade Robson, at rehearsal for the MJ tribute at the VMA in 2009. He was desperate to be part of the show. #LeavingNeverland #MichaelJackson

Jo • CaledonianKitty‏ @CaledonianKitty 17h17 hours ago

Jo • CaledonianKitty Retweeted 13june2005

Poor Janet, she probably thought she was doing a good thing inc Wade in her MJ tribute. How was she to know at that time, years later that he would try all different schemes to make money out of Michael #MichaelJackson #LeavingNeverland

This is why so many people think that Wade Robson is a lying opportunist.He wanted to be a part of several MJ tributes and performances and when that didn't work out as planned,he then decides to accuse MJ of molesting him?? : It doesn't add up.

...

[Edited 1/27/19 13:18pm]

ladygirl99 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Thank you. What is wrong with some of these people on this thread justified this? I would never leave a child under my guidance with those people for a minute if they think there is nothing wrong with a grown ass man sharing the same bed with children.

Michael Jackson was talented but he was a sick individual.

And also even if they lied on the stand, likely to protect their abuser, I would still believe their newer allegations over his cult fans.

Fanbots weren't there or never met Michael but Wade and James and Jordie and even Mac Culkin (Mac even said he and his brother shared the same bed with Michael but claim there was never appropriateness but hey he could also did the same protect the abuser) were and don't forget his former employees who saw inappropriateness too and was paid off and even Latoya saw the check of the payoffs (this is the same woman who revealed Janet and Rene's marriage before Janet confirmed this years later)! As an abused victim myself it is easily for someone willing to lie to protect. Michael was (and still) had a powerful team would do whatever it takes to discredit the victims.

And now there is new allegation from a man in Germany who also confessed he shared the same bed with Michael and experienced sexual inappropriateness from MJ. He got the same copy of The Boy: A Photographic Essay that was found during that Santa Barbara raid. He also mentioned about Michael's drinking code with Jesus Juice. How will the fanbots going to spin this one?

At the end of the day, fans don't know these celebrities private personas (there is a reason why PR worked hard to create these fake public personas to keep the fans from knowing the reality of the celebrities) so take the fucking capes off.

Get your head out of your ass. Why would they protect their abuser? Why on earth would they protect someone who supposedly molested them every day for years? Why would the abuser lay his fate in their hands and put them on the stand in a court, where they could spill the beans and sent him to jail for life? And that german accuser, I know the fucking asshole. I was there when he first met Michael. I heard the praises he sang for Michael then and now. We phoned once, a couple of years after Michael died and he told me how upset he was about the way people treated Michael. I also know what kind of person he turned out to be, defrauding countless fans. He's a scumbag.

Here is what he had to say in 2013, before he realized this year that saying something else would help him more (and like everyone, he has access to internet, so it's pretty easy to find out what you have to say to sound somewhat believable):

[Edited 1/27/19 13:35pm]

[Edited 1/27/19 13:36pm]

bonatoc said:

MotownSubdivision said:

EmmaMcG said: True, it's not just black celebs on the receiving end of this outrage culture. However,it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down and made an example of (i.e. Bill Cosby VS Harvey Weinstein).

Are we going to use this in the race wars now, as if they weren't bad enough to start with?

What makes you say Cosby got a worse treatment than Weinstein? Cosby had decades left alone making tons of money before he got in trouble. So had Weinstein. It looks to me like the Weinstein case had much more press coverage: the guy was pulverized, and so were Louis C.K. and Spacey. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Even if Nafissatou Diallo fucked up afterwards, the man destined to become France's next president was handcuffed on the spot and lost the country (and his political career). If we were living in a world where white men have a pass at whatever they want to do, we would never have heard about it. There are no conspiracies, just silences (or false testimonies) that you can buy (if you have enough cash/power).

I agree with you. I am sick of the race card that some black folks pulled when it comes to black males who refused to take personal responsibility for their wrongdoings. It takes away from real race situations. I noticed black women don't get the same consideration when they fucked up or even less. Because of toxic masculinity and double standards.

Cosby was protected for decades and that was because of money and power even in the '60s where a black man could have got killed even for looking at a white woman here in the states particular in the Deep South.

Lots of white men did get away with their crimes toward their own kind and when they killed innocent blacks but also white men got accountable too from paid for the crimes they did when they younger to the likes of other white men who got fired and charged too.

ladygirl99 said:

ladygirl99 said:

bonatoc said:

Are we going to use this in the race wars now, as if they weren't bad enough to start with?

What makes you say Cosby got a worse treatment than Weinstein? Cosby had decades left alone making tons of money before he got in trouble. So had Weinstein. It looks to me like the Weinstein case had much more press coverage: the guy was pulverized, and so were Louis C.K. and Spacey. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Even if Nafissatou Diallo fucked up afterwards, the man destined to become France's next president was handcuffed on the spot and lost the country (and his political career). If we were living in a world where white men have a pass at whatever they want to do, we would never have heard about it. There are no conspiracies, just silences (or false testimonies) that you can buy (if you have enough cash/power).

I agree with you. I am sick of the race card that some black folks pulled when it comes to black males who refused to take personal responsibility for their wrongdoings. It takes away from real race situations. I noticed black women don't get the same consideration when they fucked up or even less. Because of toxic masculinity and double standards.

Cosby was protected for decades and that was because of money and power even in the '60s where a black man could have got killed even for looking at a white woman here in the states particular in the Deep South.

Lots of white men did get away with their crimes toward their own kind and when they killed innocent blacks but also white men got accountable too from paid for the crimes they did when they younger to the likes of other white men who got fired and charged too.

I hate to poke at this beehive but the difference seems to be that black men are becoming the face of the metoo movement. Cosby is in jail, they're trying for R Kelly, and it looks like they're gunning for Chris Brown (continuously). I hate to sound morbid but thank God Michael Jackson is dead, otherwise he'd be headed for jail too.

I have yet to see a white male, especially Weinstien, be put in jail and I doubt I ever will, and I won't lose sleep waiting for it to happen either.

This will all play out, things will be what they are and things won't change and if so only for the worse.

Free2BMe said:

ladygirl99 said:

There should be no time for sexual victims they already went through enough of being molested especially by someone who is powerful and rich and I am glad the Metoo is helping people to come out to tell their stories about being abused. You know? Don't be surprised if some sexual survivors are envy of Michael because with allegations he is not here to witness why the victims has to relive this on a daily basis for the rest of their lives.

I am sick and tired of the toxic masculinity black culture continued to make excuse and defend particularly when cigender black males fuck up (even R. Kelly was defended hardcore back in the 00s with his allergations but I am glad that even Metoo is helping younger woman of color to speak out against sexual abuse that is rampant and uncheck in the black culture) and before I get accused of being some racist white person, actually I am a black lesbian woman and I see this shit get playout with celebrities and private ones how the culture defended male predictors over the victim girls. Michael had some issues that is undeniable.

I agree the media should let Janet have her time. When Janet had her allegations with Super Bowel, I don't recall they mentioned about Michael and I hope they give her the same respect.

The liars who are accusing Michael has shit to do with R. Kelly. Why are you even putting them in the same category? Would you do that if they were white? There is a video of R Kelly pissing in the mouth of a 14 year old girl. You have a 30 year old man who claims that he was violently raped as a 7 year every night for 7 years. Yet, this same man took the witness stand as Michael’s first witness and said that Michael had never even touched him inappropriately. He continued defending Michael even after he died. He SUDDENLY came up with these lies after he didn’t get the job which he bragged about- Michael’s “One” show in Vegas. People like you give all kinds of bullshit answers why you can’t defend Michael, except you are too lazy to look at the FACTS starring you in your face. Why don’t you just admit that you don’t care if it’s true or not, you WANT it to be true, and damn the facts. That’s really what people like you are saying.

Why you calm down. Did you know Michael? Were you there? Wade, James Safechuck, Michael Jacobs-hagen (the newest allegation and even got copy of that child pornography book that Michael gave him that was found in the Santa Barbara raid), were there. Why you called them liars? If they lied it is because once again it is common and as an abused victim myself to protect the abuser. I understand that and the person I defended was no celebrity. Try to be the victim shoes and felt confused about love and had to protect the powerful and rich man who molested you and used his power to destroy if you tell and manipulated you.

It is because people tend to condemn R. Kelly but defended Michael is why some people are questioning the outrage. R. Kelly also went to trial and found innocent but that didn't stop people from rip to shreds and rightfully so.

Face it we have to accept the fact that our celebrities are not fairytale characters they are human with flaws. The dude was sick and needed help.

And why in the hell you bring the race card? Coming from a black lesbian myself don't even try it. I also condemned Brian Singer and Harvey Weinsteins and Woody Allen the problem is too long black men in the black communty got passes out of race loyality and protection at the expense of the victims, and thanks to Metoo and women empowerment groups, those days are over. Younger women of colour (and boys/men) are finding their voices and continue to find their voices if the perpetrator is black rather the black culture likes it or not.

PatrickS77 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Why you calm down. Did you know Michael? Were you there? Wade, James Safechuck, Michael Jacobs-hagen (the newest allegation and even got copy of that child pornography book that Michael gave him that was found in the Santa Barbara raid), were there. Why you called them liars? If they lied it is because once again it is common and as an abused victim myself to protect the abuser. I understand that and the person I defended was no celebrity. Try to be the victim shoes and felt confused about love and had to protect the powerful and rich man who molested you and used his power to destroy if you tell and manipulated you.

It is because people tend to condemn R. Kelly but defended Michael is why some people are questioning the outrage. R. Kelly also went to trial and found innocent but that didn't stop people from rip to shreds and rightfully so.

Face it we have to accept the fact that our celebrities are not fairytale characters they are human with flaws. The dude was sick and needed help.

Yes. Just keep ignoring the information I gave you about this guy. You know, the reason why we defend Michael is the fact, that we know more about the case than blind and gullible fools like you. Fools who project their own bullshit (what does you having been abused has to do with Michael Jackson and his lying accusers??). We don't close our eyes to information presented to us. We don't ignore stuff that gets in the way of what we believe about the situation and might contradict what we believe. I said it before and I can only say it time and time again. All of these accusers are shady as hell, with stories that don't add up and often are disproven by other people/other stuff that went down. So it really is easy to believe that Michael is innocent.

Geez. Why do people like you keep to bring that up? Anybody who isn't a total fool and moron knows that celebrities are humans with flaws like anybody else. But that doesn't automatically makes them perverts and criminals. But unlike reuglar people, they are also targets and in the climate we live in and the shady people that live on this earth, it is to be expected that not every allegation is the actual truth and some are made up by opportunists, who see a way to make money.

[Edited 1/27/19 14:13pm]

PatrickS77 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Thank you. What is wrong with some of these people on this thread justified this? I would never leave a child under my guidance with those people for a minute if they think there is nothing wrong with a grown ass man sharing the same bed with children.

Michael Jackson was talented but he was a sick individual.

And also even if they lied on the stand, likely to protect their abuser, I would still believe their newer allegations over his cult fans.

Fanbots weren't there or never met Michael but Wade and James and Jordie and even Mac Culkin (Mac even said he and his brother shared the same bed with Michael but claim there was never appropriateness but hey he could also did the same protect the abuser) were and don't forget his former employees who saw inappropriateness too and was paid off and even Latoya saw the check of the payoffs (this is the same woman who revealed Janet and Rene's marriage before Janet confirmed this years later)! As an abused victim myself it is easily for someone willing to lie to protect. Michael was (and still) had a powerful team would do whatever it takes to discredit the victims.

And now there is new allegation from a man in Germany who also confessed he shared the same bed with Michael and experienced sexual inappropriateness from MJ. He got the same copy of The Boy: A Photographic Essay that was found during that Santa Barbara raid. He also mentioned about Michael's drinking code with Jesus Juice. How will the fanbots going to spin this one?

At the end of the day, fans don't know these celebrities private personas (there is a reason why PR worked hard to create these fake public personas to keep the fans from knowing the reality of the celebrities) so take the fucking capes off.

Get your head out of your ass. Why would they protect their abuser? Why on earth would they protect someone who supposedly molested them every day for years? Why would the abuser lay his fate in their hands and put them on the stand in a court, where they could spill the beans and sent him to jail for life? And that german accuser, I know the fucking asshole. I was there when he first met Michael. I heard the praises he sang for Michael then and now. We phoned once, a couple of years after Michael died and he told me how upset he was about the way people treated Michael. I also know what kind of person he turned out to be, defrauding countless fans. He's a scumbag.

Here is what he had to say in 2013, before he realized this year that saying something else would help him more (and like everyone, he has access to internet, so it's pretty easy to find out what you have to say to sound somewhat believable):

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THE INCREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS WHAT WADE ROBSON SAY ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON.

WADE ROBSON SAY ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, I WAS FRIENDS WITH MICHAEL JACKSON FOR YEARS AND HAVE SPEND ALONE WITH HIM PRIVATELY AND ALSO TIME WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

IT NEVER HAPPENED SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE BY MICHAEL JACKSON. HE WAS FOR US CHILDRENS, A FRIEND AND WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN ( WATERBALLONS ).

THERE WAS NEVER NEVER ANYTHING SEXUAL.

MICHAEL JACOBSHAGEN 12.05.2013

https://web.archive.org/web/20130618023821/http://michaeljacobshagen.com/

[Edited 1/27/19 13:35pm]

[Edited 1/27/19 13:36pm]

Like I said abuse victims are conflicted when they are being molested by the abuser especially when they don't have the stereotype and knew how to groom their victims. Especially if that abuser is rich, powerful, and had the money to discredit in many ways. And some abusers had the next door image and people would also refuse to believe it, cause the victims not come forward or publicly support them just to keep the peace but behind closed doors, they are eating away inside and like you said the guy you meant might had been an asshole because the effects of abuse and had enabled family members.

One minute they defended their abusers publicly but might tell their therapist and close friends/family differently, I been in that shoes and so had my friends who were abused by powerful people or people who were popular among their communities. Apparently, you haven't been abused so I am going to end the conversation about this.

Yes, I agree that Wade and James with their actions are funny when it comes to profit off MJ but maybe they did that out of their own justice since they didn't have an outlet to deal with and having enable parents didn't help. And also boys could also protected their abusers because it is harder for them to come out than girls out of shame and out of fear of being label as gay.

No, you should reexamine of worship a singer man who you never met and be more logical. Forget about whether you know that Micahel Jacob Hagen as you said you had a limited connection with him? Most people wouldn't talk about their sexual abuse to people who are related to them much less the ones they had a few encounters with. That is illogical. That is why he might not tell you a real deal because you are not his friend.

Even though I never met Michael or anyone connected to him, it is laughable how people continue to dismiss people who were there from his workers to the boys he hung around and even some of his family members who saw inappropriate that would got him long jail time if he wasn't the MJ. They backtracked not maybe because they lied because the fear of rich and powerful like Michael Jackson was.

PatrickS77 said:

CynicKill said:

ladygirl99 said:

I agree with you. I am sick of the race card that some black folks pulled when it comes to black males who refused to take personal responsibility for their wrongdoings. It takes away from real race situations. I noticed black women don't get the same consideration when they fucked up or even less. Because of toxic masculinity and double standards.

Cosby was protected for decades and that was because of money and power even in the '60s where a black man could have got killed even for looking at a white woman here in the states particular in the Deep South.

Lots of white men did get away with their crimes toward their own kind and when they killed innocent blacks but also white men got accountable too from paid for the crimes they did when they younger to the likes of other white men who got fired and charged too.

I hate to poke at this beehive but the difference seems to be that black men are becoming the face of the metoo movement. Cosby is in jail, they're trying for R Kelly, and it looks like they're gunning for Chris Brown (continuously). I hate to sound morbid but thank God Michael Jackson is dead, otherwise he'd be headed for jail too.

I have yet to see a white male, especially Weinstien, be put in jail and I doubt I ever will, and I won't lose sleep waiting for it to happen either.

This will all play out, things will be what they are and things won't change and if so only for the worse.

And they deserved it too if they had strong evidence of allegations so please with the straight black male victimhood where they can be sexual oppressors too especially toward black queers/trans.

I am not going to give black men passes for being abusers just because we shared the same racial struggle. But last time I check, a majority of white men are still the face of Metoo movement like Weinstein, Brian Singer (the latest), Woody Allen, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey, Sylvester Stallone, Steven Seagal for starters so where you been?

And as for Chris Brown, he got many passes and so had Meek Mills with violating his probation. And also charges against Anthony Anderson got dropped and he had sex assault allegations. Bill Cosby had numerous allegations and paid off went back in the 60s even midst of Jim Crow legalization and Bill Cosby was even lucky to get three years only because some deposition he confessed. Don't get me started with now Michael Jackson where there had been solid evidence he had did inappropriate things and yet he hadn't served a day in jail. Same goes for OJ and he had bullshit went back to the 60s and his victims got paid off. My point is that black men's cases got drop just like the white ones and black men got acquittal (like R. Kelly, OJ just as the likes of Robert Blake) if they are rich and powerful and with the right team.

I am all for taking up for black men if they were wrongfully accused but I am also sick of the black culture continue to give them passes if they fuck up out of racial loyality. Those days are gone and R. Kelly outrage is just a start thanks to Metoo.

robson lied under oath then, so, i wonder how long it would take for a prison sentence to make him change his story again. If he lied on the stand he should be accountable just like everybody else, victim/non-victim alike.

ladygirl99 said:

PatrickS77 said:

Get your head out of your ass. Why would they protect their abuser? Why on earth would they protect someone who supposedly molested them every day for years? Why would the abuser lay his fate in their hands and put them on the stand in a court, where they could spill the beans and sent him to jail for life? And that german accuser, I know the fucking asshole. I was there when he first met Michael. I heard the praises he sang for Michael then and now. We phoned once, a couple of years after Michael died and he told me how upset he was about the way people treated Michael. I also know what kind of person he turned out to be, defrauding countless fans. He's a scumbag.

Here is what he had to say in 2013, before he realized this year that saying something else would help him more (and like everyone, he has access to internet, so it's pretty easy to find out what you have to say to sound somewhat believable):

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THE INCREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS WHAT WADE ROBSON SAY ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON.

WADE ROBSON SAY ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, I WAS FRIENDS WITH MICHAEL JACKSON FOR YEARS AND HAVE SPEND ALONE WITH HIM PRIVATELY AND ALSO TIME WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

IT NEVER HAPPENED SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE BY MICHAEL JACKSON. HE WAS FOR US CHILDRENS, A FRIEND AND WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN ( WATERBALLONS ).

THERE WAS NEVER NEVER ANYTHING SEXUAL.

MICHAEL JACOBSHAGEN 12.05.2013

https://web.archive.org/web/20130618023821/http://michaeljacobshagen.com/

[Edited 1/27/19 13:35pm]

[Edited 1/27/19 13:36pm]

Like I said abuse victims are conflicted when they are being molested by the abuser especially when they don't have the stereotype and knew how to groom their victims. Especially if that abuser is rich, powerful, and had the money to discredit in many ways. And some abusers had the next door image and people would also refuse to believe it, cause the victims not come forward or publicly support them just to keep the peace but behind closed doors, they are eating away inside and like you said the guy you meant might had been an asshole because the effects of abuse and had enabled family members.

One minute they defended their abusers publicly but might tell their therapist and close friends/family differently, I been in that shoes and so had my friends who were abused by powerful people or people who were popular among their communities. Apparently, you haven't been abused so I am going to end the conversation about this.

Yes, I agree that Wade and James with their actions are funny when it comes to profit off MJ but maybe they did that out of their own justice since they didn't have an outlet to deal with and having enable parents didn't help. And also boys could also protected their abusers because it is harder for them to come out than girls out of shame and out of fear of being label as gay.

No, you should reexamine of worship a singer man who you never met and be more logical. Forget about whether you know that Micahel Jacob Hagen as you said you had a limited connection with him? Most people wouldn't talk about their sexual abuse to people who are related to them much less the ones they had a few encounters with. That is illogical. That is why he might not tell you a real deal because you are not his friend.

Even though I never met Michael or anyone connected to him, it is laughable how people continue to dismiss people who were there from his workers to the boys he hung around and even some of his family members who saw inappropriate that would got him long jail time if he wasn't the MJ. They backtracked not maybe because they lied because the fear of rich and powerful like Michael Jackson was.

ladygirl99 said:

PatrickS77 said:

Get your head out of your ass. Why would they protect their abuser? Why on earth would they protect someone who supposedly molested them every day for years? Why would the abuser lay his fate in their hands and put them on the stand in a court, where they could spill the beans and sent him to jail for life? And that german accuser, I know the fucking asshole. I was there when he first met Michael. I heard the praises he sang for Michael then and now. We phoned once, a couple of years after Michael died and he told me how upset he was about the way people treated Michael. I also know what kind of person he turned out to be, defrauding countless fans. He's a scumbag.

Here is what he had to say in 2013, before he realized this year that saying something else would help him more (and like everyone, he has access to internet, so it's pretty easy to find out what you have to say to sound somewhat believable):

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THE INCREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS WHAT WADE ROBSON SAY ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON.

WADE ROBSON SAY ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, I WAS FRIENDS WITH MICHAEL JACKSON FOR YEARS AND HAVE SPEND ALONE WITH HIM PRIVATELY AND ALSO TIME WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

IT NEVER HAPPENED SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE BY MICHAEL JACKSON. HE WAS FOR US CHILDRENS, A FRIEND AND WE HAVE A LOT OF FUN ( WATERBALLONS ).

THERE WAS NEVER NEVER ANYTHING SEXUAL.

MICHAEL JACOBSHAGEN 12.05.2013

https://web.archive.org/web/20130618023821/http://michaeljacobshagen.com/

[Edited 1/27/19 13:35pm]

[Edited 1/27/19 13:36pm]

Like I said abuse victims are conflicted when they are being molested by the abuser especially when they don't have the stereotype and knew how to groom their victims. Especially if that abuser is rich, powerful, and had the money to discredit in many ways. And some abusers had the next door image and people would also refuse to believe it, cause the victims not come forward or publicly support them just to keep the peace but behind closed doors, they are eating away inside and like you said the guy you meant might had been an asshole because the effects of abuse and had enabled family members.

One minute they defended their abusers publicly but might tell their therapist and close friends/family differently, I been in that shoes and so had my friends who were abused by powerful people or people who were popular among their communities. Apparently, you haven't been abused so I am going to end the conversation about this.

Yes, I agree that Wade and James with their actions are funny when it comes to profit off MJ but maybe they did that out of their own justice since they didn't have an outlet to deal with and having enable parents didn't help. And also boys could also protected their abusers because it is harder for them to come out than girls out of shame and out of fear of being label as gay.

No, you should reexamine of worship a singer man who you never met and be more logical. Forget about whether you know that Micahel Jacob Hagen as you said you had a limited connection with him? Most people wouldn't talk about their sexual abuse to people who are related to them much less the ones they had a few encounters with. That is illogical. That is why he might not tell you a real deal because you are not his friend.

Even though I never met Michael or anyone connected to him, it is laughable how people continue to dismiss people who were there from his workers to the boys he hung around and even some of his family members who saw inappropriate that would got him long jail time if he wasn't the MJ. They backtracked not maybe because they lied because the fear of rich and powerful like Michael Jackson was.

How convenient of you or anyone to use the behaviour of some abuse victims to explain away all the actions of those 3 guys that totally screw up their abuse stories. You should take off your abuse colored glasses and look at things the way they are.

Not that it matters, but actually, I have met Michael Jackson. As for Jakobshagen. Yes. I'm no friend of his. I didn't like him too much back in the day... as he was bragging too much about his meeting with Michael for my taste and felt something was off, when I talked to him some years ago (a phone call he put forth to me... he wanted to talk to me). But friends of mine were in closer contact with him (that's why that phone call came about). So really, I do know all I need to know about him, to know that he's a liar and will tell anything that helps him. For years, he embelished his "friendship" story with Michael, to publisha book about it and made his rounds in the press defending Michael, while selling fake autographs and memorabillia for thousands of Euros, encroaching his way into Ola Ray's circle, trying to get close to the Jackson family members and swindling his way into Forest Lawn cemetery, while selling his stories to tabloid media. 2 years ago his bluff was up. He was exposed for the fraud he is on german television. He got charged, sued and got judgements against himself to pay back money he swindled out of gullible fans, which he hasn't paid to this day. Now, after first denouncing Robson's allegations as lies, he's jumping on the #metoo and trash MJ bandwagon and tries to paint himself as a victim. And eager fools like you, who project their own shit on it, eat that shit up and use him and other frauds as proof that Michael Jackson molested children. It's sickening.

We dismiss these people because all of them had monetary reasons/motives and axes to grind and alwways made sure that whatever they had to tell made them money first. Supposed justice or protection of children never was of any concern to any of them. Even the one family member, who said she saw cheques.

[Edited 1/27/19 15:00pm]

cosby was a special case, for a lot of reasons that i'll only mention a few. he shunned and shamed blackfolk so no one had his back at first, now that he's in prison a few black people are defending him but many never forgave him for all that shit talking about poundcakes and saggin pants and grandma screwing her children, lot of people never forgave that shit, even now. Also, i've been objective from the start and still am, the way they got bill broke their own laws, statutes, and candace broke her agreement to settle for money. ya he raped everyone but white people will play dirty and break their own rules whenever they feel like it.

ladygirl99 said:

bonatoc said:

Are we going to use this in the race wars now, as if they weren't bad enough to start with?

What makes you say Cosby got a worse treatment than Weinstein? Cosby had decades left alone making tons of money before he got in trouble. So had Weinstein. It looks to me like the Weinstein case had much more press coverage: the guy was pulverized, and so were Louis C.K. and Spacey. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Even if Nafissatou Diallo fucked up afterwards, the man destined to become France's next president was handcuffed on the spot and lost the country (and his political career). If we were living in a world where white men have a pass at whatever they want to do, we would never have heard about it. There are no conspiracies, just silences (or false testimonies) that you can buy (if you have enough cash/power).

I agree with you. I am sick of the race card that some black folks pulled when it comes to black males who refused to take personal responsibility for their wrongdoings. It takes away from real race situations. I noticed black women don't get the same consideration when they fucked up or even less. Because of toxic masculinity and double standards.

Cosby was protected for decades and that was because of money and power even in the '60s where a black man could have got killed even for looking at a white woman here in the states particular in the Deep South.

Lots of white men did get away with their crimes toward their own kind and when they killed innocent blacks but also white men got accountable too from paid for the crimes they did when they younger to the likes of other white men who got fired and charged too.

ladygirl99 said: