peggyon said:

Purplestar88 said:

I don't care who is boo- hooing. These two have no credibility because they flip flop their stories. These two accusers are fishy as hell and so are their families. This is problem people are going with emotion instead of facts. You saw what happened in the Jessie Somellet case people were attacked because they question a story that made no sense. Just because people look and act sad and tell a disturbing story does not mean they are telling the thuth. Actions speaks louder than words.

I recommend watching the documentary and the after-show with Oprah

It is very compelling and disturbing.

i'll watch it when i can i don't have cable. oprah is a witch though and i thought that before. doubt if my opinion changes on anything. have watched what is available and the two men do seem to be pretty sincere but that really only means so much. I still question how wade got it on every night like he said, even a perv would take a night off here or there, it's that kind of exaggeration that makes me question everything, same for when that dingbat, the maid, mc'something said there was vaseline all over the ranch even in the carts michael rode in, that's just stupid, if you're gonna lie at least come up with stuff that is sensible.

i wonder if a doctor could recognize if a grown man was anally screwed as a child, i wojuld think it would leave scars, we need to send them to the proctologist.

here's a good'on:https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-dont-believe-michael-jacksons-accusers-in-leaving-neverland makes the point that the kids seem like they miss the old times, which i thought too, maybe those days were the highlights of their lives and they just want to relive it even if they have to pervert the memories.

also, i've seen several articles throwing names like brett barnes and jason francia in, they need to come out and say something. Jason apparently gavea statement saying he was molested then recanted by saying that he just wanted the cops alone, which if you've ever been interrogated, you'll know why a little kid would. jordy chandler oughta crawl out from under his rock too. lets get this shit done and over with once and for all. otherwise, it'll go on as long as we have civilization.

This "movie" is a shitshow, and they hit all the right emotional marks that they were gunning for with a gullible general public who will lazily research only on the surface of google lol. Enlisting Okra for an aftershow was the cherry on the sundae. Alot of people are eating on the "MeToo" buffet. I hope these guys continue to make their promo rounds and hit every circuit. One of them will go off-script and foil the entire operation in no time, and the director will play "bamboozled and hoodwinked" lol.

scorp84 said:

RODSERLING said:

PeteSilas said:

peggyon said:

Purplestar88 said:

I don't care who is boo- hooing. These two have no credibility because they flip flop their stories. These two accusers are fishy as hell and so are their families. This is problem people are going with emotion instead of facts. You saw what happened in the Jessie Somellet case people were attacked because they question a story that made no sense. Just because people look and act sad and tell a disturbing story does not mean they are telling the thuth. Actions speaks louder than words.

I recommend watching the documentary and the after-show with Oprah

It is very compelling and disturbing.

I agree ^ I watched the entire doc and the aftershow with Oprah, a child-abuse survivor herself.
In fact, everyone in the studio audience were child abuse survivors. They believe the two men because they exhibit behavior that is consistent of people who have been repeatedly abused as children over time. Part of this behavior is vehemently lying for and defending their abusers when initially asked.

I went into the show thiinking how unnecessary it is to dredge up accusations about someone who was once aquitted of these charges in a court of law. I was relieved when MJ got aquitted - I wanted to believe he was misunderstood and that he was being extorted by these people. But as you saw both men and their families interviewed in this doc, you can see how it is possible they were tellng the truth.

My best childhood friend (10 or 11 y.o. at the time) was invited by her mother's co-worker (possibly her boss) to go on a weekend outting in the mountains with his family. Just her, not her little brother or older sister. The man picked her up in his car and a couple of hours later she was at my doorstep crying. She was dropped back off at home, put her suitcase in the garage and came straight to my house. She told me that on the way to this cabin the man pulled over and tried to touch her. She began crying uncontrollably and he got scared, told her not to say anything if he brought her home. She asked me to tell my mom to call her grandmother (who lived with them and bascially raised the kids) and tell her what happened but not her own mother who she feared would not believe her. These mothers in the documentary totally reminded me of my friend's mother. My own mother was very angry and could not understand how my friend's mother allowed her child to go with this man by herself unsupervised.

The truth is children are abused by adults and it is not something that can be easily proven years later because very often the perpetrators are trusted get away with it. Over time the children are psychologically and emotionally traumatized and their parents do not see it or do not want to see it. Just becasue the accused adult happens to be a beloved celebrity does not mean it cannot happen.

[Edited 3/5/19 4:57am]

RODSERLING said:

oceanblue said:

Well, from watching Oprah's interview, it's clear that she believes those 2 guys, and so does the audience.

[Edited 3/4/19 20:05pm]

What a big surprise. All victims themselves. Of course they would never doubt a fellow "victim".

PatrickS77 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

peggyon said:

I recommend watching the documentary and the after-show with Oprah

It is very compelling and disturbing.

I agree ^ I watched the entire doc and the aftershow with Oprah, a child-abuse survivor herself.
In fact, everyone in the studio audience were child abuse survivors. They believe the two men because they exhibit behavior that is consistent of people who have been repeatedly abused as children over time. Part of this behavior is vehemently lying for and defending their abusers when initially asked.

I went into the show thiinking how unnecessary it is to dredge up accusations about someone who was once aquitted of these charges in a court of law. I was relieved when MJ got aquitted - I wanted to believe he was misunderstood and that he was being extorted by these people. But as you saw both men and their families interviewed in this doc, you can see how it is possible they were tellng the truth.

My best childhood friend (10 or 11 y.o. at the time) was invited by her mother's co-worker (possibly her boss) to go on a weekend outting in the mountains with his family. Just her, not her little brother or older sister. The man picked her up in his car and a couple of hours later she was at my doorstep crying. She was dropped back off at home, put her suitcase in the garage and came straight to my house. She told me that on the way to this cabin the man pulled over and tried to touch her. She began crying uncontrollably and he got scared, told her not to say anything if he brought her home. She asked me to tell my mom to call her grandmother (who lived with them and bascially raised the kids) and tell her what happened but not her own mother who she feared would not believe her. These mothers in the documentary totally reminded me of my friend's mother. My own mother was very angry and could not understand how my friend's mother allowed her child to go with this man by herself unsupervised.

The truth is children are abused by adults and it is not something that can be easily proven years later because very often the perpetrators are trusted get away with it. Over time the children are psychologically and emotionally traumatized and their parents do not see it or do not want to see it. Just becasue the accused adult happens to be a beloved celebrity does not mean it cannot happen.

[Edited 3/5/19 4:57am]

You don't find it kind of odd that these two have not been presented to an audience who could rip their story to shreds? Constantly protected by the director or the likes of Okrah and an audience solely full of real abuse survivors, that alone is sick beyond words to manipulate real victims. Stinks of a stitch-up. One-sided documentary and one-sided follow-up. Put them alone with a mixed studio audience and see how they fair, I think you'd see a completely different story.

[Edited 3/5/19 6:13am]

MJ wasn't above the law but he was beyond the norms of behaviour, and we made him that way. Whether guilty or innocent (based on the evidence I have seen I say innocent myself but understand why someone would say guilty) he was clearly quite damaged and it was our own fame industry that did it to him. Declaring him cancelled ten years after his death isn't going to change any of this, it sounds to me more like us trying to clear our own guilty consciences as a society.

Having said that, if all this hubbub is us starting to make the needed changes to society then good maybe we'll stop putting 11 year old youtube sensations on Ellen or the like. If he's guilty then he's guilty, if he's innocent then at least we're attacking a man who has already passed and hopefully the truth will out in time. I'd rather a dead innocent victim than a live one. I do feel for his kids though.

Or at least they're my current thoughts on the issue.

After watching the first part of the documentary and the Oprah interview, I absolutely believe these men. Like Oprah said, Micheal Jackson was and still is considered a god by many of his fans. They don't make celebs like that anymore. There are no stars today that shine that bright (I bet Beyonce is reeling over that comment). It doesn't matter what anyone says or what evidence is presented, Micheal Jackson fans are simply never going to believe that he was a severely flawed human being (yes, he was a human being just like the rest of us) who was battling serious demons. There is nothing anyone can say or do to convince them he was just regular folk capable of doing anything wrong. Some people on this site have talked about how crazy Beyonce fans are (and I have to agree), how crazy Mariah, Madonna, etc fans are. Well, Micheal Jackson fans are the craziest of them all. I have always felt that way, even when i was a kid. I have never seen a fan base so disturbingly obsessed with one person. I always thought it was really creepy, particularly the effect he had and continues to have on young children.

I shudder to think about how many dozens or hundreds of children he had done these despicable things to and they refused to come forward simply because it is Micheal Jackson? It will be interesting to see how many radio stations, particularly black radio stations where he has remained in extreme heavy rotation to this very day, will stop playing his music? I doubt if it will happen. His fans and the public at large will just continue to close their eyes and deny the monster he was and place all blame on the victims.

Do we listen to his music?

PatrickS77 said:

oceanblue said:

Well, from watching Oprah's interview, it's clear that she believes those 2 guys, and so does the audience.

[Edited 3/4/19 20:05pm]

What a big surprise. All victims themselves. Of course they would never doubt a fellow "victim".

That's a disgraceful thing to say. To suggest that a victim is no longer capable of rational and objective thought on any child abuse case is insulting, lacks intelligence and is just plain wrong.

Here's questions I have:

-

Where are all of the victims?

-

With Bill Cosby, R. Kelly, etc, dozens of victims came forward. If Jackson was the sexual predator that some claim, shouldn't there be dozens (maybe hundreds) of people coming forward with similar allegations? Bill Cosby was as rich/famous/revered as Jackson, yet even he could not supress the flood of people coming forward with shared stories.

-

Where is the evidence?

-

Again, with Cosby and R. Kelly there has been MORE than just allegations and stories. There has been proof and evidence of these crimes. In his lifetime, Jackson was monitored by the FBI and raided by police. Still, no evidence of these abuses/allegations was ever found.

How credible are these dudes?

-

I know we live in a time where even The President can just make shit up without consequences, but didn't these guys testify, under oath in court, on behalf of Michael Jackson?

[Edited 3/5/19 7:26am]

[Edited 3/5/19 8:01am]

RichardS said:

PatrickS77 said:

What a big surprise. All victims themselves. Of course they would never doubt a fellow "victim".

That's a disgraceful thing to say. To suggest that a victim is no longer capable of rational and objective thought on any child abuse case is insulting, lacks intelligence and is just plain wrong.

Whether you think it's disgraceful or not doesn't change the fact that someone affected themselves by molestation, will view allegations of a person claiming to be molested in a different way than someone who never was molested. No former victim would want to discredit and not believe another possible victim. Simply because they wouldn't want that to happen to themselves.

[Edited 3/5/19 7:29am]

jaawwnn said:

2freaky4church1 said:

kitbradley said:

There is nothing anyone can say or do to convince them he was just regular folk capable of doing anything wrong.

His fans and the public at large will just continue to close their eyes and deny the monster he was and place all blame on the victims.

I'm sorry, but that is bs. Stop lumping every fan together.

It's not our fault that all of the accusers are shady scumbags with conflicting, nonsensical, everchanging, opportunistic stories, without anything that could be looked at as proof. It's not our fault that there is not one of them who is 100% credible. That's not enough to kick someone to the curb, but enough to plead for his innocence.

kitbradley said:

PatrickS77 said:

RichardS said:

That's a disgraceful thing to say. To suggest that a victim is no longer capable of rational and objective thought on any child abuse case is insulting, lacks intelligence and is just plain wrong.

Whether you think it's disgraceful or not doesn't change the fact that someone affected themselves by molestation, will view allegations of a person claiming to be molested in a different way than someone who never was molested. No former victim would want to discredit and not believe another possible victim. Simply because they wouldn't want that to happen to themselves.

[Edited 3/5/19 7:29am]

I'm sorry, but that is bs. Stop lumping every victim together.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

It seems some people have invested so much of themselves in the MJ fandom that they’ve lost perspective.

Most people who dont believe the two accusers have used measured evidence to back their opinions, regardless of their fandom. Im not talking about freetobeme tho

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

MotownSubdivision said: