ChocolateBox3121 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Britney will absolutely get in.

Why? Because she's white? I think Gloria Estefan is a better candidate than Britney because Gloria is one of the first Latina singers to really get mainstream popularity in the US. If only being popular is the criteria then acts like Barry Manilow, Duran Duran, The Carpenters, Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, Kenny G, New Kids On The Block, The Osmonds, DC Talk, Pet Shop Boys, Barbra Striesand, Poison, Air Supply, Lionel Richie, George Strait, Dolly Parton, etc would have gotten in and/or have been nominated. Reba McEntire had a TV sitcom.

Britney Fucking Spears? The younger, white version of Janet? The one whose every move, look and video is a carbon copy of Miss Jacksons's? The joke just writes itself. Ha!!!

https://www.youtube.com/w...ZosiOgc4So

https://www.youtube.com/w...argIr5NmZA

https://www.youtube.com/w...BjJdXBz-wA

"I wanted to BE her..." Britney on Janet

MickyDolenz said:

PatrickS77 said:

Can't recall any hit of hers in Europe.

Since the Hall is in the United States, having hits in Europe or anyplace else outside of the US doesn't matter. Garth Brooks is one of the biggest selling singers in history and I guess most of his sales are in the USA. Garth has 7 diamond albums here, no one else including The Beatles & Michael Jackson can claim that. Vicente Fernández is really huge in Mexico and with Latino audiences in the US. Bollywood singers have hits in India, it doesn't matter if someone in the UK has heard of them. Doesn't make the songs not a hit.

And yet it's not called "Hall of fame of the United States". Janet has fame (and hits) worldwide. Nicks has fame (and hits) in the states and yet Janet supposedly is not worthy to get in, while Nicks is? GTH out of here.

SEANMAN said:

PatrickS77 said:

And yet it's not called "Hall of fame of the United States". Janet has fame (and hits) worldwide. Nicks has fame (and hits) in the states and yet Janet supposedly is not worthy to get in, while Nicks is? GTH out of here.

It's not called a "Hits Hall Of Fame" either.

Whitney has more hit singles than other acts that have been inducted like Pink Floyd, R.E.M., Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Rush, & Metallica. She's not in. Nicki Minaj, Lil Wayne, Glee, & Drake has more hits than everybody inducted already. What's your point?

SEANMAN said:

Britney Fucking Spears? The younger, white version of Janet? The one whose every move, look and video is a carbon copy of Miss Jacksons's? The joke just writes itself. Ha!!!

https://www.youtube.com/w...ZosiOgc4So

https://www.youtube.com/w...argIr5NmZA

https://www.youtube.com/w...BjJdXBz-wA

"I wanted to BE her..." Britney on Janet

Britney is a peasant compared to Queen Janet

Goddess4Real said:

SEANMAN said:

Goddess4Real said:

Britney is a peasant compared to Queen Janet

Yes indeed. The troll just doesn’t understand.

Britney wishes she could do a classic performance like this in heels ......The Grammys 1987 with Whitney and Luther giving their props

[Edited 1/7/19 18:17pm]

Great news on Radiohead and Stevie Nicks, Radiohead will get in eventually, why not now indeed

Jimmy Jam‏Verified account @flytetymejam Jan 3

In the year @JanetJackson finally will take her overdue place in the @rockhall an interesting perspective and good read from @anildash after the #RhythmNation #JanetJackson #JimmyJam #TerryLewis

After the Rhythm Nation https://anildash.com/2019...hm-nation/

With Janet Jackson's (woefully belated) acceptance into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it's well past time for a broader reckoning with her place in popular culture, and especially the way she's challenged narratives in pop music. To me, her evolution, and unique place in culture, can be summed up with just one verse.

There's a brief, melancholy moment on Janet's 2015 album Unbreakable that shocked me when I first heard it, and has haunted me ever since for its accuracy and prescience. It comes in "Shoulda Known Better", a dance song that's a standout on Unbreakable, with fairly conventional pop production paired with a very unusual structure that alternates between a pulsing, even euphoric chorus and subdued, nearly heartbroken verses. It's not the loud-soft that every Pixies-referencing rock band trots out, but rather a striking grafting of two completely different moods into a single pop song. The overall sentiment of the song is conveyed by the jarring juxtaposition of cataloguing social ills (the kind that Janet has been discussing since Rhythm Nation) against an insistence that directly reckoning with such injustices can still help to fix them.

What Janet said made me rethink how pop music talks about narratives of race, and how it deploys hope and optimism or falls back to resignation or despair.

I had this great epiphany
And rhythm nation was the dream
I guess next time I'll know better

Janet's Unbreakable album has been unfairly overlooked, perhaps because she couldn't do a full-on promotional push at the time of its launch as she was going through a complicated pregnancy and a lot of change in her personal life. But as an album, it stands tall amongst the other formidable standouts in her catalog, and is perhaps her best complete album since 1998's Velvet Rope. "Shoulda Known Better" shows exactly why it's her strongest release in years.

A Vision of Blindness

The pop music tradition, especially the global superstar tier of pop music where Janet resides, has had a fairly consistent narrative for a few decades now. Just as the rhythms and arrangements of contemporary pop music can often find its roots in the funk and disco of the 70s, the lyrical grounding of most "issue oriented" pop music was defined in the simple, sometimes reductive, utopianism of the 60s.

Motown struggled famously with reacting to the political moment it found itself in toward the late 60s and early 70s, with Berry Gordy fighting against Marvin Gaye's cultural commentary in What's Going On, only begrudgingly agreeing to release the now-classic record. But despite the success of Gaye's efforts (and even more pointed songs like some of Stevie Wonder's work later in the 70s), the template for much of pop music was set: talking about racial problems in America was still supposed to finish with a call for color-blind idealism. And it's important to remember that Motown wasn't some abstract representation of excellence in black music to the Jackson family; Motown was the mentors who came around the house as the Jackson kids were growing up. Especially for Janet, as the youngest of the family and the one most rooted in California instead of Indiana or Detroit, the example set by someone like Diana Ross would have been omnipresent.

This expectation of pop music's conversation about race persisted for decades. By the end of the 80s, Janet was pushing forward the boundaries of pop music with Rhythm Nation 1814, with many of its songs explicitly articulating a vision of color-blindness. Even its title track, an all-time classic, opens with a spoken incantation:

We are a nation with no geographic boundaries
Bound together through our beliefs
We are like-minded individuals
Sharing a common vision
Pushing toward a world rid of color lines

Within two years after the release of Rhythm Nation, Michael Jackson would release his single "Black or White", whose chorus repeatedly insists that it doesn't matter if you're black or white. The same year, Prince would release his album Diamonds and Pearls, whose bridge enthusiastically promises, "u will be colorblind". The biggest stars of the MTV era had weighed in, and they had found consensus in their lyrics.

Telling the Truth

But lets's fast-forward to just over a decade after the peak of the MTV era. Janet had been sidelined by the predator Les Moonves for her Super Bowl performance. Prince had abandoned his name, written "slave" on his face, returned to his name, and re-emerged outside the conventional record label system. Michael Jackson had gone to war against his record label, calling his label head "the devil". None of their work would ever blindly champion ignorance of race again; all of them would reckon directly with the fact that even their extraordinary talent and success didn't shield them from the structural injustices of the industry they had mastered.

But it took Janet explicitly revisiting her past work to really drive this home. Unlike almost any other major pop artist, Janet revisited her signature song, in a world of #BlackLivesMatter and #MeToo, and declared her past vision obsolete. In its place was an updated, more complicated vision.

Janet's vision of a post-Rhythm nation isn't a pessimistic one, though. Instead, it's a hard-earned lesson, an unpopular but necessary truth that takes courage to share. We can't solve problems that we can't talk about, and Janet had the wisdom to tell the truth of the problem, even if it meant challenging one of her best-known narratives.

Still, the first time I heard those lyrics in "Shoulda Known Better", it hit me like a gut punch. Part of it was the difference between hearing an idealistic message as a teen and hearing a tough, painful lesson as an adult. But more fundamentally, it was about recognizing the shortcomings and dangers of the colorblindness that we'd all been taught when I was young. Great art is supposed to challenge us, but it takes a truly great artist to give us permission to let go of our past. And Janet pushed us there.

I still love the song "Rhythm Nation"; I always will. But I believe in Janet today. And just as with her Hall of Fame induction, the music industry may always lag behind, but it can never deny Janet's vision.

[Edited 1/7/19 18:33pm]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

NEVER in this lifetime. She's blatantly copied EVERYTHING Janet has done & IS NOT original.

Lol, both are pop lightweights, but at least Britney somehow or another, I don’t really know how, managed to become an icon. Janet? She’s MJ’s sis with a couple of prefab hits by JJ and TL Britney will absolutely get in. I have no idea why Janet is even up for consideration.

gtfoh. are u KIDDING me. are you TWELVE or what?! there would BE no Britney w/o Janet u clown. go back and watch the MTV Icon performance and find a huge clue.......BRITNEY effin' SPEARS over Janet...put the pipe DOWN yo!

datdude said:

How Def Leppard Rode a Love of Pop Into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
By Brian Hiatt • December 27, 2018 • Rolling Stone

Joe Elliott of Def Leppard, who will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in March, gave a career-spanning interview on our podcast, Rolling Stone Music Now. Below, he explains at length how the band drew on more diverse influences than many of their peers. To hear the whole discussion, click here.

We’ve always been fans of just great music. We would never limit ourselves to just listening to rock. Then you just sound like a rock band. We wanted to be like Queen were. They were a rock band with a bit of vaudeville and a little bit of operatic thrown in, but it was still essentially rock.

We, as individuals, and as a collective, would readily admit, in front of the entire world, to being fans of everything from the Ramones and the Pistols and the Clash — that kind of aggressive, less musicianship kind of rock — to fans of Utopia, Queen, Steely Dan, the more musician-type of rock.

Then people like Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Tom Waits, Lionel Ritchie, Michael Jackson, just ’cause they make great records. Good enough for Eddie Van Halen to play on! If it’s a great song, you just go, that’s a great song! I mean, we were in a discotheque in Amsterdam in 1986, when we heard “State of Shock” by [Mick] Jagger and Jackson.

We saw how it didn’t empty the dance floor, but it rocked. That’s pretty much inspired “Excitable” off Hysteria. It’s the reaction of people. You can mix it up. We didn’t want to sound like Saxon. We didn’t want to sound like Maiden. We didn’t want to sound like Duran Duran. We didn’t want to sound like Depeche Mode, but if you put the lot into a bucket, there is an interlink between any one of them bands, as much as Maiden might not agree.

I’ve listened to Depeche Mode for 20-odd years. They’re a rock band without a guitar. Everything about them. Their arrangements, the look, in fact, they did eventually bring guitar in, but even their keyboards were well, they were hardcore-sounding and they were playing rock riffs on a keyboard. Nine Inch Nails — similar kind of thing.

If it’s a good song, it gets logged in our DNA in the plus department. Even if all we ever do is tell people we think it’s great, not lift things from it, that’s a good thing. We’ve always been influenced by everything from pure pop to downright hardcore rock. We would never be one or the other, but take the ingredients, for sure. That’s how you make your own pie, by stealing ingredients from other people’s recipes.

All we ever really wanted to do was make a record that we would go out and buy ourselves. We were one of the few bands… that actually would readily admit to liking things that journalists and fans may question. Because a lot of people are scared to admit their influences, in case it upsets the apple cart with their audience.

I remember thinking should we ever get to the position where I’m asked that question, I’m not going to deny myself. So if somebody says, “What do you think of Michael Jackson or what do you think of Janet Jackson or what do you think of Paula Abdul?” … Hey, if I like the song, I like the song.

MickyDolenz said:

PatrickS77 said:

And yet it's not called "Hall of fame of the United States". Janet has fame (and hits) worldwide. Nicks has fame (and hits) in the states and yet Janet supposedly is not worthy to get in, while Nicks is? GTH out of here.

It's not called a "Hits Hall Of Fame" either.

Whitney has more hit singles than other acts that have been inducted like Pink Floyd, R.E.M., Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Rush, & Metallica. She's not in. Nicki Minaj, Lil Wayne, Glee, & Drake has more hits than everybody inducted already. What's your point?

Yes. But it's called Hall of fame and you achieve fame with having hits and Janet has more fame and hits around the world than Stevie Nicks, especially Stevie Nicks as a solo artist. As for the latter mentioned, you have to define "hit" as I don't know any single song of any of them. But either way, none of them released their first album 25 years ago. So it's moot and irrelevant to talk about them.

[Edited 1/8/19 3:49am]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yes. But it's called Hall of fame and you achieve fame with having hits

Since you want to be literal with the title, it has the words "rock 'n roll" in it. Neither Janet nor many of the people in already qualify like Madonna, The Ink Spots, Abba, Percy Sledge, Sam Cooke, Donna Summer, Jackson 5, Aretha Franklin, Carole King, Prince, Stevie Wonder and so on. Even most of Elvis Presley's music is not really rock. Judas Priest,

Emerson Lake & Palmer, Gentle Giant, & Iron Maiden do qualify as rock but are not in. As far as you not knowing the hits of Drake or whoever, do you even know the hits of your own country in the 1920s or 1930s? I mentioned them since according to you having hits is a criteria for getting in, so that means when Nicki Minaj's & Drake's time comes, they should automatically get in since they already have more hits than everybody inducted and in a shorter amount of time. Drake & Cardi B just recently broke long held Billboard records by The Beatles. Post Malone's album beat Thriller as the album staying in the top 10 the longest on the R&B chart.

BlackCat1985 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

You people have no clue to the definition of trolling. It doesn’t mean someone disagreeing with you. And the only people pissed off is you weirdos. It’s just an opinion, learn to deal with differing opinions already.

It would seem to me that calling people names is trolling. That has nothing to do with disagreeing. You also keep responding to the Janet defenders yet never commented on what I've said to you. So you're just constantly making negative comments about Janet just to rile them up, when saying you don't like her just once was enough. Rather than making making sarcastic remarks like "a couple of hits by Jam & Lewis" when she has way more hits than 2. If that were true, she's be like A Flock Of Seagulls or Carl Douglas, and not many people would be talking about her today. Like there's nobody saying LaToya & Rebbie should be inducted or Marlon & Jackie for their solo albums.

MickyDolenz said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

datdude said:

gtfoh. are u KIDDING me. are you TWELVE or what?! there would BE no Britney w/o Janet u clown. go back and watch the MTV Icon performance and find a huge clue.......BRITNEY effin' SPEARS over Janet...put the pipe DOWN yo!

Anyone who takes either of them seriously is the one needing to put down the pipe ...yo

Nobody can reasonably dispute what you say about Britney getting into the Hall. She will regardless of what non-fans and critics say.

You can also make the argument (though I wouldn't myself for Janet) that neither is a serious artist in the vein of, say, Billie Holliday, Joni Mitchell, Nina Simone, or maybe even Stevie Nicks.

Where you painted yourself into the corner is by saying that , although both artists are of equal value in your book (i.e., NONE), Briney, the white act, is okay for Hall recongition but Janet, the black act, is not.

namepeace said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

datdude said: Anyone who takes either of them seriously is the one needing to put down the pipe ...yo

Nobody can reasonably dispute what you say about Britney getting into the Hall. She will regardless of what non-fans and critics say.

You can also make the argument (though I wouldn't myself for Janet) that neither is a serious artist in the vein of, say, Billie Holliday, Joni Mitchell, Nina Simone, or maybe even Stevie Nicks.

Where you painted yourself into the corner is by saying that , although both artists are of equal value in your book (i.e., NONE), Briney, the white act, is okay for Hall recongition but Janet, the black act, is not.

I never said they should never be inducted, I just found it funny that they have to scrape the bottom.

BlackCat1985 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Yeah, but i've made amends that eventually Britney Spears will get in. There is no doubt. But Janet? Whatever..

So Britney deserves to be in but not Janet!? You sir are definitely trolling. I love the fact that Janet gets in and it pisses people like you off. Because there isn't anything you can do about it.

Yep, just like a pointed out a couple of pages back. I think it's best to adopt the old adage of "don't feed the troll" with this one. It'll eventually get tired.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

namepeace said:

Nobody can reasonably dispute what you say about Britney getting into the Hall. She will regardless of what non-fans and critics say.

You can also make the argument (though I wouldn't myself for Janet) that neither is a serious artist in the vein of, say, Billie Holliday, Joni Mitchell, Nina Simone, or maybe even Stevie Nicks.

Where you painted yourself into the corner is by saying that , although both artists are of equal value in your book (i.e., NONE), Briney, the white act, is okay for Hall recongition but Janet, the black act, is not.

I never said they should never be inducted, I just found it funny that they have to scrape the bottom.

You left that impression in your posts, which is why it seems everyone went after you.

In any event, it is a Hall of Fame, and I don't see how the Hall could leave out two of the biggest acts in small-r rock and roll history. The Janets and Britneys will be included with the Arethas and the Jonis. And that's fine because they're all part of the story.