This is so true.It's ridiculous to suggest that blacks don't support their classic artists.Frankie Beverly and Maze don't even need to put to put out a new album and thousands still go to their shows every year.I have seen audiences go wild at their shows.Same with an EW&F or an Isley Brothers show,and don't even get me started about P-Funk,lol.
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Do you live in America? I'm just asking because,I go to alot of shows featuring legendary black artists and bands,and I can tell you that you are wrong.These artists get tremendous support from black audiences.Bands like Maze,EW&F,Zapp,etc. manage to sellout shows every year in the US.
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I didn't say that blacks didn't support them at all, but whites are more likely to in a big way, especially with the younger white audience. I mentioned veterans get on Tom Joyner type package shows, but there's few that can tour by themselves like a Paul McCartney and draw a big audience. Maybe Lionel Richie can and that's how he can host American Idol. He's well known enough by the mainstream that a TV network will hire him. EWF is a crossover act. Maze & Zapp can't do a collabo tour with Chicago like EWF can. If a large amount of people really supported the veterans, many of these acts records wouldn't have gone out of print other than a Greatest Hits. They would get the same attention from the labels as the white acts and the crossover ones do. The Beatles & Pink Floyd continue to get written about in rock & pop magazines often. Does Vibe or The Source write about Zapp, Kurtis Blow, or New Edition in the same way? I can find hundreds of books about Elvis Presley including ones of just pictures or of women he's dated, but few if any about Little Richard or Sam Cooke. I can find a lot about Michael Jackson too. Even on MJ fansites The J5/Jacksons & Motown solo era does not get the same attention as the post Off The Wall solo stuff. All I'm saying mainstream acts get more support & documentation. I posted links to the R&B and funk halls of fame, yet people want them to get into the mainstream Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame. I guess R&B fans must want them to get into the Rock Hall for a reason. They want them now to induct acts the average reader of RS didn't notice much during their heyday. Green Day has been on the cover of RS, Guy hasn't. Remember RS wrote a letter basically saying that Michael Jackson wasn't worthy of getting a cover during Off The Wall, but would write an article about him. Implying that putting him on the cover wouldn't sell as well. Maybe R&B fans they don't think that a Funk Hall is enough, if they even know it exists. Maybe R&B fans should support and give more promotion to these museums and not only depend on the Rock Hall to recognize Rick James or whoever. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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MickyDolenz said:
That's not really the point. It's that the R&B acts who crossed over are the ones who are more likely to be known by the voters of the Hall, particularly ones of the founders generation. Notice that there's several Motown acts inducted who crossed over like The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Supremes, Smokey Robinson, and Gladys Knight & The Pips. Whites are more likely to support their veteran acts than black people in the US are. The Rolling Stones, U2, and even Ringo Starr can have high grossing tours decades after they had a hit record. The average R&B veteran act get on Tom Joyner/Sinbad ship cruises. Tony Bennett & Johnny Mathis can release albums in their 80s, but rap has an age limit. Blues & jazz partly survived because white audiences supported it, long after black people in general abandoned them. If you look at a latter day audience at a B.B. King show, it's usually primarily white. That's why rock n roll is considered white music now, by many blacks, when that's not where it originated. People tend to buy their own race/ethnicity before another. And R&B act to even get recognized by the Rock Hall have to have had some type of cross over success. Someone like Maze or Slave who was big in the r&B world had very little success on the pop field will never ge nominated. There may be 5 R&B bands in the Rock Hall. P-Funk, EWF, Isleys, Sly Family Stone, and the J5 if you count them as a band. Not the same on the other side of the pond. PRINCE: Always and Forever
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I think it's likely that Destiny's Child will get in the 1st year they qualify. Maybe not for the group itself, but because of Beyoncé's success. I wonder if they will count LeToya & LaTavia or just Michelle. Beyoncé has won (22) and been nominated for more Grammys than a lot of those older R&B acts. Only Stevie Wonder has won more than her and if she wins 3 more she will be tied with him. She has to get 9 more to tie with 1st place with Georg Solti. It's like Lil Wayne has more Hot 100s than James Brown & Elvis Presley. So that might mean Wayne will eventually get in. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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MickyDolenz said:
I think it's likely that Destiny's Child will get in the 1st year they qualify. Maybe not for the group itself, but because of Beyoncé's success. I wonder if they will count LeToya & LaTavia or just Michelle. Beyoncé has won (22) and been nominated for more Grammys than a lot of those older R&B acts. Only Stevie Wonder has won more than her and if she wins 3 more she will be tied with him. She has to get 9 more to tie with 1st place with Georg Solti. It's like Lil Wayne has more Hot 100s than James Brown & Elvis Presley. So that might mean Wayne will eventually get in. Destiney Child gettin in depends on groups like TLC or En Vogue gettin in. And then 70s-80s groups like Emotions, Pointer Sisters are not in. Would they just skip a whole genetation of female groups? Ronnets, Supremes, Vandellas, ect and 60s girls groups are in. 70s, 80s, early 90s missing. I mean Jackson 5 didn't get in first year bu Mike did. And DC while successful, Beyonce blows their success out the water. And it's not like DC influenced any one. Hie many girl groups have came out since DC debuted on the charts. Danity Kane lol. Pussy Cat Dolls. 2 groups. PRINCE: Always and Forever
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This is what I'm talking about, the highest grossing tours in 2017 from Pollstar: There's 3 acts who debuted in the 1960s (Paul McCartney, Rolling Stones, Roger Waters) You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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Who did Percy Sledge influence? Also, they skipped Salt N Pepa & LL Cool J to induct Tupac & NWA. They put in Madonna before Donna Summer. Although there were female rappers before them, Salt N Pepa was the first to become popular in themselves rather thant having 1 or 2 songs to become hits. They also had crossover success and a lot of MTV play unlike Sha Rock, the Roxannes or The Sequence. There were punk groups before Green Day as well. Why not Fishbone? The 1970s punk groups didn't sell as well or get pop airplay like Green Day or Blink 182 did. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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^^Also The Supremes & Ronettes are in. Mary Wells isn't. But not many females have been inducted period. Rock (and rap) are primarily considered male genres. I remeber when they had Album Oriented Rock (AOR) stations, few women were played and most were in a band with guys like Fleetwood Mac. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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Your post is very interesting to read and I agree with a lot of what you said.
I read interviews from old-school R&B and funk artists too and they said they received more love and had a good following in Europe and Asia and I read articles about some of the 80s and 90s rappers stay touring in Asia countries because it helped their careers stay alive. I always thought funk music especially doesn't get the same and respect here in the States outside maybe the South region and the bigger cities like New York and LA.
I also agree I would love to see some women artists like Evelyn King and Stacy Lattisaw and Mary Jane Girls and Klymaxx in R&B and funk hall of fame unless they already there or even Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for at least Evelyn King as she went mainstream with a few of her songs. | |
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Friend... lets be real here. I can speak for many people and say that I could care less about playing with a Maze featuring Frankie Beverly Lego set or a Charlie Wilson doll! Yeah... that's real cute that the Stones, Macca, and Bon Jovi got those nice trinkets. Maze hasn't had a record in 25 years and can still have everyone in the Superdome on their feet and having a good time. Those acts that you mentioned have huge, corporate, money-making machines behind them and I am not knocking them at all. But I can guarandamntee you that at the end of a show, I have a snowball chance in hell of shaking Mick and Keith's hand. I love going to R&B and hip-hop shows because I walk away with memories. Yes, I had a damn good time seeing Eric B and Rakim recently. You know what made that experience one that I will never forget? Having these hip-hop LEGENDS take the time to show me love, personally thank me, AND sign my vinyl albums. I think it's pretty damn awesome to go to the Essence Fest in New Orleans and see Patti LaBelle in Popeyes eating a two-piece and signing autographs for fans. You mention the Tom Joyner cruise but guess what? My kinfolk went on one and came back with a camera full of pictures of everyone they met and hung out with from Charlie Wilson to the Isleys. Is Paul McCartney gonna sign my Abbey Road album? Please. I once saw Mint Condition at the Arena several years ago and had a chance to meet Stokley afterwards. You know what that man said to me? "We are going to a jazz cafe and woud love for you to come and hang out with us." I did just that and had a blast. I doubt like hell Keith Richards would personally invite me anywhere. Oh... but they'll take my hard earned dollars because they are playing stadiums. Man... it's not about all that bullshit. Give me an up close and personal experience with one of my favorite artists anyday of the week versus sitting up in a damn nosebleed seat for an overpriced seat! | |
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Because it's a damn popularity contest, chief! Not to mention, the RRHOF plays it safe. It's all about crossover and popularity. I love NWA but Ice Cube makes comedies and Dre makes headphones now. They are safe. Public Enemy? You can thank Flava Flav and VH-1 for their induction. Tupac is now a t-shirt and Biggie sells Oreos. I could go on for days and days about artists that should be in the RRHOF but are not. Motley Crue and Living Colour should be in. Where's Bad Brains? They influenced the Beastie Boys! And the ladies? Please. Where's Janet Jackson? Should have been in years ago. Chaka Khan? Labelle? It's all a popularity contest, man. Didn't they just induct Nina Simone and Sister Rosetta Tharpe? Are you serious? And truth be told, I am sure a lot of R&B and hip-hop artists could care less about the RRHOF. That shit is like the damn Oscars. What did Phife Dawg say: "I never let a statue tell me how nice I am!" To hell with them shits, B. | |
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I already know that. That's what I've said all along. I was explaining to LittleBLUECorvette that's why the acts he posted in the OP are not likely to get in and also in the other thread about Rick James. It's not about popularity per se but partly about who Jann Wenner likes. It's a Rolling Stone museum. You can guess who is more likely to get in or not if you've ever read it for a period of time. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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That's all well & good, but my point is that whites usually support older acts in ways blacks generally don't and buying a doll or a fancy box set are examples of that. It's like Michael Jackson is not likely to have video games, bubble gum, or a Cirque show if he hadn't crossed over big with Thriller. Not that people can get an autograph from Mick Jagger or shake his hand. I think the Stones audience is aware of that, and is not what they're going to their concerts for. Like there's CDs of various takes including studio chatter of The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Elvis Presley. That's not likely to happen with the average R&B act because there's probably not really much of an audience who is interested in hearing Teddy Pendergrass messing up a take. My point is that the labels put out these types of releases for rock & pop acts and many R&B albums are out of print in the US and you have to buy an expensive import from Japan. Classic rock is written & talked about more in the media than classic R&B. That is a way for new audiences to hear about them. Going to the Essence Fest or a Tom Joyner cruise is not the same thing as buying the acts albums today. The labels are about money and if old R&B albums sold today (or at least stream) like Elvis or Michael Jackson, then they are likely to give them the same type of attention. Zapp or Midnight Star are not likely to get releases like these.
A Boy From Tupelo: The Complete 1953-1955 Recordings You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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Ok, baby. You have a great day. Be blessed, now! | |
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yeah I agree.That stuff doesn't mean much to me,either.I only care about the music and the shows.Let those rock bands have those silly gimmicks,lol. | |
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Merchandising like dolls & games or jackets with a band logo on them helps those classic rock acts to continue to release music and not really have to worry about selling a lot of their new albums or having a radio hit. Same for people like Eddie Van Halen who has a guitar series for sale. B.B. King had a Lucille model to buy a museum, and music nightclubs to make money. Some of those veteran R&B & funk bands don't have a record deal and recording time is expensive. Ringo Starr still releases an album every 2 or 3 years, he doesn't have to tour or release anything if he doesn't want to. Few if any early rappers release new music even if they do shows. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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