I would assume he heard the Beat It solo and thought Eddie Van Halen is turning that solo out? Since he did a couple or more of MJ/Jackson 5 songs in Concert. I don't guess any of you all heard him play around with the Beat It solo at Soundcheck?

that solo is way outside P's skill set, he never did and never could play those symmetrical runs up and down the neck, never mind at the speed required...

Musician9 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Musician9 said:

that solo is way outside P's skill set, he never did and never could play those symmetrical runs up and down the neck, never mind at the speed required...

Wut?

Musician9 has a point. I don't believe I've heard run Prince do any tapping on the guitar.

MattyJam said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Musician9 said: Wut?

Musician9 has a point. I don't believe I've heard run Prince do any tapping on the guitar.

But that doesn't mean that it was because of the lack of skill. That's why I said wut? Just because he never did it doesn't mean he wasn't able to do it.

[Edited 6/1/18 6:49am]

Musician9 said:

that solo is way outside P's skill set, he never did and never could play those symmetrical runs up and down the neck, never mind at the speed required...

I bet Musicians1 - 8 would disagree with that.

RodeoSchro said:

Musician9 said:

that solo is way outside P's skill set, he never did and never could play those symmetrical runs up and down the neck, never mind at the speed required...

I bet Musicians1 - 8 would disagree with that.

ThatWhiteDude said:

MattyJam said:

Musician9 has a point. I don't believe I've heard run Prince do any tapping on the guitar.

But that doesn't mean that it was because of the lack of skill. That's why I said wut? Just because he never did it doesn't mean he wasn't able to do it.

[Edited 6/1/18 6:49am]

come on, if he could've he would've, that solo includes tremolo picking, pinch harmonics, tapping, four fingered symmetrical scales running up 5 strings and whammy bar dive bombs, akll at incredibly high speeds. I've seen our boy live and watched all the footage from all his tours and he's never done any of the skills I just listed, much less do them fast. Perhaps the notes in thatsolo are faster thabn your eyes can hear them, it's on a level P never got close to. Good guitarist but EVH is a bonafide master...

Musician9 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But that doesn't mean that it was because of the lack of skill. That's why I said wut? Just because he never did it doesn't mean he wasn't able to do it.

[Edited 6/1/18 6:49am]

come on, if he could've he would've, that solo includes tremolo picking, pinch harmonics, tapping, four fingered symmetrical scales running up 5 strings and whammy bar dive bombs, akll at incredibly high speeds. I've seen our boy live and watched all the footage from all his tours and he's never done any of the skills I just listed, much less do them fast. Perhaps the notes in thatsolo are faster thabn your eyes can hear them, it's on a level P never got close to. Good guitarist but EVH is a bonafide master...

Again, just because he didn't do it, doesn't mean he couldn't Maybe he just didn't like Van Halen's style.

My point is, the only way we could say that he didn't have the skill to do it, would be if he tried it and failed.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Musician9 said:

come on, if he could've he would've, that solo includes tremolo picking, pinch harmonics, tapping, four fingered symmetrical scales running up 5 strings and whammy bar dive bombs, akll at incredibly high speeds. I've seen our boy live and watched all the footage from all his tours and he's never done any of the skills I just listed, much less do them fast. Perhaps the notes in thatsolo are faster thabn your eyes can hear them, it's on a level P never got close to. Good guitarist but EVH is a bonafide master...

Again, just because he didn't do it, doesn't mean he couldn't Maybe he just didn't like Van Halen's style.

My point is, the only way we could say that he didn't have the skill to do it, would be if he tried it and failed.

okay, but by the same logic, many P fans on here, not saying you, then claim other better guitarists may be better but they can't play funk like P, and maybe those guitarists don't wanna play funk, but Ithe orgers are like P played more styles, which is a copout. But again, skill levels are clearly evident though with metal and hard rock guitarists, many of whom are playing neo-classical styles way beyond the realm of blues, rock, funk and even jazz, in essence, Paganini played on a guitar. I can pick out any P riff rock or otherwise with ease and play it, like a lot of guitarists, but EVH, far tougher to ciomprehend, ever see P stretch his hand over 5 frets and play with 4 fingers? No, never seen or heard him do it, it becomes a physical matter to a degree, Clapton and plyers like him can't do it either, outside their wheelhouse. But you have your opinion an dthat's what taste is all about...

Eric Clapton did say Prince was the greatest Guitar player.I'm sure Prince could play the Beat it Solo

dance4me3121 said:

Eric Clapton did say Prince was the greatest Guitar player.I'm sure Prince could play the Beat it Solo

I'm not so sure. Slash attempted the solo at MJ's MSG 2001 anniverary shows and did a horrendous job. Like Prince, his forte is blues-rock lead playing and he is not adept at techniques like tapping and pinch harmonics and divebombs.

At the end of the day, these are stylistic choices and Prince was just not that kind of player. But then neither was Slash, so when someone steps outside of their comfort zone and attempts to play something by a master of another style, they are often shown up in doing so. I imagine Prince playing the EVH solo on Beat It would be a similar experience. Could he have mastered it with enough practise? Probably, as could most people if they put in the hours. But it would not have been as simple as Prince rolling up at Paisley one day and just busting out the Beat It solo off the cuff. These would've been new skills that he would've had to have taken the time to learn and master.

I have played things like Master Of Puppets and One, level 'recognizable' and i tried to lay my hands on that Beat It solo, but it's a MF!! Of the perhaps 150 solo's I studied, this animal was unplayable to me.

MattyJam said:

dance4me3121 said:

Eric Clapton did say Prince was the greatest Guitar player.I'm sure Prince could play the Beat it Solo

I'm not so sure. Slash attempted the solo at MJ's MSG 2001 anniverary shows and did a horrendous job. Like Prince, his forte is blues-rock lead playing and he is not adept at techniques like tapping and pinch harmonics and divebombs.

At the end of the day, these are stylistic choices and Prince was just not that kind of player. But then neither was Slash, so when someone steps outside of their comfort zone and attempts to play something by a master of another style, they are often shown up in doing so. I imagine Prince playing the EVH solo on Beat It would be a similar experience. Could he have mastered it with enough practise? Probably, as could most people if they put in the hours. But it would not have been as simple as Prince rolling up at Paisley one day and just busting out the Beat It solo off the cuff. These would've been new skills that he would've had to have taken the time to learn and master.

I remember Jeniffer Batten mentioning how hard it was to learn that solo for the Bad Tour. And hers isn't quite EVH either. But she still rocked it.

dance4me3121 said:

Musician9 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But that doesn't mean that it was because of the lack of skill. That's why I said wut? Just because he never did it doesn't mean he wasn't able to do it.

[Edited 6/1/18 6:49am]

come on, if he could've he would've, that solo includes tremolo picking, pinch harmonics, tapping, four fingered symmetrical scales running up 5 strings and whammy bar dive bombs, akll at incredibly high speeds. I've seen our boy live and watched all the footage from all his tours and he's never done any of the skills I just listed, much less do them fast. Perhaps the notes in thatsolo are faster thabn your eyes can hear them, it's on a level P never got close to. Good guitarist but EVH is a bonafide master...

Rick James had a guitarist playing hard rock type of licks and solos on his records in the mid-80s. Combining that with his funk / R&B -based stuff was just too damn tacky in the end. Prince's Hendrix -influenced approach fitted his music much better.

Musician9 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But that doesn't mean that it was because of the lack of skill. That's why I said wut? Just because he never did it doesn't mean he wasn't able to do it.

[Edited 6/1/18 6:49am]

come on, if he could've he would've, that solo includes tremolo picking, pinch harmonics, tapping, four fingered symmetrical scales running up 5 strings and whammy bar dive bombs, akll at incredibly high speeds. I've seen our boy live and watched all the footage from all his tours and he's never done any of the skills I just listed, much less do them fast. Perhaps the notes in thatsolo are faster thabn your eyes can hear them, it's on a level P never got close to. Good guitarist but EVH is a bonafide master...

Thats interesting how you describe that solo, the average person would not know what the heck you are talking about, Wow.

I don't think Prince was as technical good as EvH so I don't think he could bust out that solo without full on practise for months.

Just like Santana wouldn't handle an Yngwie Malmsteen solo without months of practising.

But I also doubt EvH could make your heart cry like Prince could even with months of practise.
EvH is just a perfectly awesome technical wizard on the guitar like Satriani or Steve Vai, just not much soul.

Yeah EVH was a beast, he smoked the guitar both literally and figuratively, so much swagger and the SKILL to back it up, he was one of the best I ever done seen. I guess the real question is could MJ have finger-clicked his way through the solo if need be.

JorisE73 said:

I don't think Prince was as technical good as EvH so I don't think he could bust out that solo without full on practise for months.

Just like Santana wouldn't handle an Yngwie Malmsteen solo without months of practising.

But I also doubt EvH could make your heart cry like Prince could even with months of practise.
EvH is just a perfectly awesome technical wizard on the guitar like Satriani or Steve Vai, just not much soul.

ahh, soul, the word people use when their chosen musician isn't up to a certain level of skill, it's a fave of the Orgers here, and so overused to defend a lck of ability. P's playng never made me cry because to me he never brought anything new to the axe, but that's what he had to concentrate on since there's a ceiling on technical ability. Now clearly you've never listened to much Van Halen and that makes me cry because of the unique and utterly mind-blowing sounds I'm hearing, nevermind the speed and tricks, the raw power and emotion, and Vai and Stariani are the same. you should check out the live versions of For The Love Of God by Vai if you want soul plus technique plus utter awesomeness, nothing even close in P's catalogue to compete with that one...

3 fun facts about the solo: 1) EVH spent only about 20 minutes in the studio, cut 2 takes and Quincy pieced together a portion of each solo. 2) Eddie foolishly askd for no credit or payment, but for a 6 pack of beer, losing out on millions over the decades not because he didn't believe it would be a hit, but because it was so effortless on his part. 3) of course the song was huge and it helped keep Van Halen's 1984 pinned at No. 2 on the album charts, preventing them from having their first #1 album. David Lee Roth goaded Eddie about it constantly, as well as mocking him for not getting paid...

Musician9 said:

JorisE73 said:

I don't think Prince was as technical good as EvH so I don't think he could bust out that solo without full on practise for months.

Just like Santana wouldn't handle an Yngwie Malmsteen solo without months of practising.

But I also doubt EvH could make your heart cry like Prince could even with months of practise.
EvH is just a perfectly awesome technical wizard on the guitar like Satriani or Steve Vai, just not much soul.

ahh, soul, the word people use when their chosen musician isn't up to a certain level of skill, it's a fave of the Orgers here, and so overused to defend a lck of ability.

Ouch! That's harsh. Kinda true though.

Musician9, have you ever checked out Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal? His playing is insane.

Musician9 said:

JorisE73 said:

I don't think Prince was as technical good as EvH so I don't think he could bust out that solo without full on practise for months.

Just like Santana wouldn't handle an Yngwie Malmsteen solo without months of practising.

But I also doubt EvH could make your heart cry like Prince could even with months of practise.
EvH is just a perfectly awesome technical wizard on the guitar like Satriani or Steve Vai, just not much soul.

ahh, soul, the word people use when their chosen musician isn't up to a certain level of skill, it's a fave of the Orgers here, and so overused to defend a lck of ability. P's playng never made me cry because to me he never brought anything new to the axe, but that's what he had to concentrate on since there's a ceiling on technical ability. Now clearly you've never listened to much Van Halen and that makes me cry because of the unique and utterly mind-blowing sounds I'm hearing, nevermind the speed and tricks, the raw power and emotion, and Vai and Stariani are the same. you should check out the live versions of For The Love Of God by Vai if you want soul plus technique plus utter awesomeness, nothing even close in P's catalogue to compete with that one...

Well as a fan of Vai I truly admire his skills but I've never heard raw emotion through his playing as I have with Prince. Skills and tricks doesn't do much for me emotionally. Prince, Santana and Hendrix all lack the skills EvH, Vai and Satriani have but there playing and sounds amaze me more.
It's like a soul singer versus an grunter, some people get more emotional by lyrics by a grunter or soul singer others by the sound. That's what I mean with 'soul'.

Musician9 said:

JorisE73 said:

I don't think Prince was as technical good as EvH so I don't think he could bust out that solo without full on practise for months.

Just like Santana wouldn't handle an Yngwie Malmsteen solo without months of practising.

But I also doubt EvH could make your heart cry like Prince could even with months of practise.
EvH is just a perfectly awesome technical wizard on the guitar like Satriani or Steve Vai, just not much soul.

ahh, soul, the word people use when their chosen musician isn't up to a certain level of skill, it's a fave of the Orgers here, and so overused to defend a lck of ability. P's playng never made me cry because to me he never brought anything new to the axe, but that's what he had to concentrate on since there's a ceiling on technical ability. Now clearly you've never listened to much Van Halen and that makes me cry because of the unique and utterly mind-blowing sounds I'm hearing, nevermind the speed and tricks, the raw power and emotion, and Vai and Stariani are the same. you should check out the live versions of For The Love Of God by Vai if you want soul plus technique plus utter awesomeness, nothing even close in P's catalogue to compete with that one...

heh well... I guess that often it's true, perhaps I could say it's even true by definition. While any of the ones you're mentioning surely can make a guitar cry in the vain Prince does, perhaps they've chosen not to go there and stay 'technically perfect' instead - like: faster, clearer, more complex. But that doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, to the listener.
Actually, imo, much more often those technically 'less' players - Prince, Santana, .. - come up with much more interesting and enjoyable riffs, solo's, melodies, bridges, etc. Maybe because they need to impress in another way, maybe because of whatever other reason.
Personally, Eruption is cacaphony to my ears and totally not enjoyable.
I'd like to know your opinion on SRV actually.

Sorry to be the only one, but I actually enjoyed Tom McDermott's guitar work with Rick James. I don't think there was anything that sounded "tacky" about it.....Rck said he always wanted to do a "rock and roll" show wearing jeans and turning the amps up loud, but he said he would lose most of his black audience by doing that...P was able to do it because he crossed over (with the mid 80's rock audiences) with no problem.

TheFman said:

Musician9 said:

ahh, soul, the word people use when their chosen musician isn't up to a certain level of skill, it's a fave of the Orgers here, and so overused to defend a lck of ability. P's playng never made me cry because to me he never brought anything new to the axe, but that's what he had to concentrate on since there's a ceiling on technical ability. Now clearly you've never listened to much Van Halen and that makes me cry because of the unique and utterly mind-blowing sounds I'm hearing, nevermind the speed and tricks, the raw power and emotion, and Vai and Stariani are the same. you should check out the live versions of For The Love Of God by Vai if you want soul plus technique plus utter awesomeness, nothing even close in P's catalogue to compete with that one...

heh well... I guess that often it's true, perhaps I could say it's even true by definition. While any of the ones you're mentioning surely can make a guitar cry in the vain Prince does, perhaps they've chosen not to go there and stay 'technically perfect' instead - like: faster, clearer, more complex. But that doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, to the listener.
Actually, imo, much more often those technically 'less' players - Prince, Santana, .. - come up with much more interesting and enjoyable riffs, solo's, melodies, bridges, etc. Maybe because they need to impress in another way, maybe because of whatever other reason.
Personally, Eruption is cacaphony to my ears and totally not enjoyable.
I'd like to know your opinion on SRV actually.

Love SRV, again, another master of his craft. Damn shame he was taken from us like that, we can only imagine where he would have gone with his playing over the next 30 years. But like Jimi, he left enough to keep people studying his licks and techniques. Also, this isn't me bashing Prince, he was a good player, not a great one IMO, and I've followed him from 1999 onwards. He got better but I don't see anything incredible like other Orgers, just like you don't like Eruption, I can't hate you and say you have no taste, it's just not your cup of tea. P was lke a lot of players, same old licks in pentatonic, same old boxes on the neck, 2 notes per string up 3 strings, for a brief run at the end of every solo ad nauseum. His live solos are all the same, plus activating every BOSS pedal known to man to cover missed notes, come on, he couldn't play without a flange, phaser, delay, distortion, wah, and God knows what else turned on. I'm a guitarist, I know his tricks, I've used them too, they're quite simple, and he never broke free from his pedalboard, at the ened I saw his live rig, looked like the bridge of the Enterprise, a great player doesn't need that many pedals, not even Vai or Satriani use that many live. Glad you like Stevie though, he was trained by another blues pioneer Albert King. See, P's no pioneer on guitar, overall in music and composition, yes, on a single instrument, not even close, and that's the argument here, to my mind...

Musician9 said:

3 fun facts about the solo: 1) EVH spent only about 20 minutes in the studio, cut 2 takes and Quincy pieced together a portion of each solo. 2) Eddie foolishly askd for no credit or payment, but for a 6 pack of beer, losing out on millions over the decades not because he didn't believe it would be a hit, but because it was so effortless on his part. 3) of course the song was huge and it helped keep Van Halen's 1984 pinned at No. 2 on the album charts, preventing them from having their first #1 album. David Lee Roth goaded Eddie about it constantly, as well as mocking him for not getting paid...

Not only could have gotten paid for his immediate work but he could have also gotten royalty checks also, right? And I assume you play guitar also?

Musician9 said:

TheFman said:

heh well... I guess that often it's true, perhaps I could say it's even true by definition. While any of the ones you're mentioning surely can make a guitar cry in the vain Prince does, perhaps they've chosen not to go there and stay 'technically perfect' instead - like: faster, clearer, more complex. But that doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, to the listener.
Actually, imo, much more often those technically 'less' players - Prince, Santana, .. - come up with much more interesting and enjoyable riffs, solo's, melodies, bridges, etc. Maybe because they need to impress in another way, maybe because of whatever other reason.
Personally, Eruption is cacaphony to my ears and totally not enjoyable.
I'd like to know your opinion on SRV actually.

Love SRV, again, another master of his craft. Damn shame he was taken from us like that, we can only imagine where he would have gone with his playing over the next 30 years. But like Jimi, he left enough to keep people studying his licks and techniques. Also, this isn't me bashing Prince, he was a good player, not a great one IMO, and I've followed him from 1999 onwards. He got better but I don't see anything incredible like other Orgers, just like you don't like Eruption, I can't hate you and say you have no taste, it's just not your cup of tea. P was lke a lot of players, same old licks in pentatonic, same old boxes on the neck, 2 notes per string up 3 strings, for a brief run at the end of every solo ad nauseum. His live solos are all the same, plus activating every BOSS pedal known to man to cover missed notes, come on, he couldn't play without a flange, phaser, delay, distortion, wah, and God knows what else turned on. I'm a guitarist, I know his tricks, I've used them too, they're quite simple, and he never broke free from his pedalboard, at the ened I saw his live rig, looked like the bridge of the Enterprise, a great player doesn't need that many pedals, not even Vai or Satriani use that many live. Glad you like Stevie though, he was trained by another blues pioneer Albert King. See, P's no pioneer on guitar, overall in music and composition, yes, on a single instrument, not even close, and that's the argument here, to my mind...

The bridge of the Enterprise

In my book, SRV was/is the greatest. Does Jimi better than Jimi. Trained by A King but very influenced by JH.

Musician9 said:

TheFman said:

heh well... I guess that often it's true, perhaps I could say it's even true by definition. While any of the ones you're mentioning surely can make a guitar cry in the vain Prince does, perhaps they've chosen not to go there and stay 'technically perfect' instead - like: faster, clearer, more complex. But that doesn't mean that one is 'better' than the other, to the listener.
Actually, imo, much more often those technically 'less' players - Prince, Santana, .. - come up with much more interesting and enjoyable riffs, solo's, melodies, bridges, etc. Maybe because they need to impress in another way, maybe because of whatever other reason.
Personally, Eruption is cacaphony to my ears and totally not enjoyable.
I'd like to know your opinion on SRV actually.

Love SRV, again, another master of his craft. Damn shame he was taken from us like that, we can only imagine where he would have gone with his playing over the next 30 years. But like Jimi, he left enough to keep people studying his licks and techniques. Also, this isn't me bashing Prince, he was a good player, not a great one IMO, and I've followed him from 1999 onwards. He got better but I don't see anything incredible like other Orgers, just like you don't like Eruption, I can't hate you and say you have no taste, it's just not your cup of tea. P was lke a lot of players, same old licks in pentatonic, same old boxes on the neck, 2 notes per string up 3 strings, for a brief run at the end of every solo ad nauseum. His live solos are all the same, plus activating every BOSS pedal known to man to cover missed notes, come on, he couldn't play without a flange, phaser, delay, distortion, wah, and God knows what else turned on. I'm a guitarist, I know his tricks, I've used them too, they're quite simple, and he never broke free from his pedalboard, at the ened I saw his live rig, looked like the bridge of the Enterprise, a great player doesn't need that many pedals, not even Vai or Satriani use that many live. Glad you like Stevie though, he was trained by another blues pioneer Albert King. See, P's no pioneer on guitar, overall in music and composition, yes, on a single instrument, not even close, and that's the argument here, to my mind...

I wonder how a good player sells around 100 Million records???

How many have you sold? I see you take the time out to do alot of P bashing around here.

http://prince.org/msg/7/452900?&pg=2

rogifan said:

Musician9 said:

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Rogifan said, Not better than true guitarists.

Guitarhero said, Rogifan this guy is a troll, probably a failed musician a no body in the world of music. You can see the jealousy in some of his posts. If you credit Prince with being even good at something he will accuse you idol worship for Prince. Probably thinks he is also a average bass player, dancer, singer, writer and producer. Nothing this guy says is worth replying too. He has lost all credit with saying Prince is a average guitar player. PLEASE! When it comes to Princes's guitar playing i will only listen to what his guitar playing peers say, which i have found mostly positive. I have also seen many great guitar players live and Prince was one of the best. Oh no i will be accused of idol worshiping Prince. Damn.

[Edited 6/6/18 14:16pm]