rogifan said:

Surprisingly this list doesn’t suck. But putting Beyoncé and Taylor Swift above Aretha? Hell no. https://www.npr.org/2018/...t=20180410

I'm afraid to even look at the list. Putting those two on any "Greastest" list is a bit of stretch.

jaawwnn said:

MarkThrust said:

I like the idea of the list. I might prefer it be created by critics than fans, though. We end up with the '150 albums by the 30 women in music we can think of'. Which might be telling on it's own.

Here you go, the original critics list that this was an answer to:

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/24/538387823/turning-the-tables-150-greatest-albums-made-by-women/


it is a slightly more interesting list; non-english speakers, Chaka Khan, Donna Summer, Mary J. Blige, Barbara Streisand, jazz albums and Madonna albums that aren't her debut all got representation although i'm sure we'll find a reason to moan that it didn't follow each of our own specific tastes

[Edited 4/12/18 5:10am]

Thanks for posting. There's a dozen artists I thought should have been on the other list, represented here. Much more representative.

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

That's true, and obviously so. But when you're measuring greatest albums made by women, and you're polling NPR listeners/readers, it's surprising to see only 2 jazz albums made the cut.

That's because as you know, NPR has traditionally been one of the few major media outlets that provide a forum for jazz, and that's (presumably) based on their listener tastes/demands.

That doesn't nessessarily mean they buy jazz albums. Some people who listen to the radio don't buy albums at all. Maybe there's not enough people who have heard any particular jazz album that voted compared to Janet Jackson's Control which is on the list.

I never made that comment to the exclusion of particular artists.

It's a feasible/fair point you raise, given that the work of female jazz artists, even the great ones, are split and repackaged ad infinitum in "best of" compilations of varying degrees of quality.

But the lack of jazz albums on this list is striking.

[Edited 4/12/18 10:59am]

namepeace said:
I never made that comment to the exclusion of particular artists.

It's a feasible/fair point you raise, given that the work of female jazz artists, even the great ones, are split and repackaged ad infinitum in "best of" compilations of varying degrees of quality.

But the lack of jazz albums on this list is striking.

I wasn't talking about excluding anyone, but popularity. Because how much of the general public buy jazz albums period, especially ones by women? I've rarely seen jazz records chart high on the Top 200 and it was mostly people like Herb Alpert like I mentioned earlier and that was decades ago. You're not likely to find much jazz on Billboard's Top 30 albums in the last 10 or 15 years. On Youtube, jazz doesn't get the anywhere near the same amount of views as an act like Psy. I don't think many people today buy Ella Fitzgerald albums, and I think singers like Janet Jackson, Madonna, & Aretha Franklin are more known to the mainstream than a modern female jazz singer like Diana Krall or Esperanza Spalding. So I don't know what's surprising by jazz records not being known by the general public. Lists by the general public and critics are usually going to be different, because critics tend to dislike whatever is popular and the mainstream audience mainly listens to whatever is on Top 40 radio. I'd expect Taylor Swift to be high on a listeners list because she is popular right now, more than Aretha Franklin is with the audience who buys music now. She's sold way more record than Esperanza Spalding, so there's more people to vote for Taylor. Maybe there's people that voted for an album by Esperanza, but she might have placed at 210. So not high enough for a list of 150. Also, maybe jazz listeners are less likely to participate in such a survey, than a Beyoncé fan would. It's like on Michael Jackson fansites, people will post about any survey that he can be on and then they'll vote multiple times if it is allowed. They vote because they know about it and their votes places Mike high on the list. On the People's Choice Awards, it's the public voting, not the industry like the Grammys & Emmys

mjscarousel said:

Beyonce is the most overrated pop star ever. She has not produced any albums that have been more influential or groundbreaking than any Joni Mitchel, Aretha, Madonna, or Janet Jackson album. Hell, that Lemonade album is not even better than any of Fiona' Apple's or Janelle's albums. I could not name one song off that overrated Lemnade album if you asked me.

I would replace Lemonade with Janet's Velvet Rope and add Madonna's Ray of Light in the Top 10. Although I do think Adele's 21 is a classic it damn sure ain't above Aretha and the same goes for the Swift as well. Aretha should be in the Top 10. Industry and label propaganda at it again. These silly empty lists mean nothing.

Don't be mad at the artist lol. Now who is overrated is her Husband, if it wasn't for solid soulful beats with a 808 and drum machine sped up beats her husband wouldn't be. Sorry just wanted to hate on Lay-Z

lool said:

Goddess4Real said:

The list was ok.....however, unless I have overlooked it, where is Chaka Khan, Donna Summer and Barbra Streisand?

'Bad Girls' is #138. CK and Babs are absent. [Edited 4/12/18 0:49am]

Thanks

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:
I never made that comment to the exclusion of particular artists.

It's a feasible/fair point you raise, given that the work of female jazz artists, even the great ones, are split and repackaged ad infinitum in "best of" compilations of varying degrees of quality.

But the lack of jazz albums on this list is striking.

I wasn't talking about excluding anyone, but popularity. Because how much of the general public buy jazz albums period, especially ones by women? I've rarely seen jazz records chart high on the Top 200 and it was mostly people like Herb Alpert like I mentioned earlier and that was decades ago. You're not likely to find much jazz on Billboard's Top 30 albums in the last 10 or 15 years. On Youtube, jazz doesn't get the anywhere near the same amount of views as an act like Psy. I don't think many people today buy Ella Fitzgerald albums, and I think singers like Janet Jackson, Madonna, & Aretha Franklin are more known to the mainstream than a modern female jazz singer like Diana Krall or Esperanza Spalding. So I don't know what's surprising by jazz records not being known by the general public. Lists by the general public and critics are usually going to be different, because critics tend to dislike whatever is popular and the mainstream audience mainly listens to whatever is on Top 40 radio. I'd expect Taylor Swift to be high on a listeners list because she is popular right now, more than Aretha Franklin is with the audience who buys music now. She's sold way more record than Esperanza Spalding, so there's more people to vote for Taylor. Maybe there's people that voted for an album by Esperanza, but she might have placed at 210. So not high enough for a list of 150. Also, maybe jazz listeners are less likely to participate in such a survey, than a Beyoncé fan would. It's like on Michael Jackson fansites, people will post about any survey that he can be on and then they'll vote multiple times if it is allowed. They vote because they know about it and their votes places Mike high on the list. On the People's Choice Awards, it's the public voting, not the industry like the Grammys & Emmys

You say a lot here I agree with but still I wasn't talking about general audiences.

I was talking about NPR audiences.

liljojo said:

Where the hell is Ray Of Light, Stripped or Fijación Oral?

214 said:

Where the hell is Ray Of Light, Stripped or Fijación Oral?

I believe they're on the list you forgot to send in when they were accepting submissions.

jaawwnn said:

214 said:

Where the hell is Ray Of Light, Stripped or Fijación Oral?

I believe they're on the list you forgot to send in when they were accepting submissions.

Where?

214 said:

jaawwnn said:

I believe they're on the list you forgot to send in when they were accepting submissions.

Where?

Eh, possibly in a word document? I don't know if you write things longhand or what man.

jaawwnn said:

214 said:

Where?

Eh, possibly in a word document? I don't know if you write things longhand or what man.

Don't know what you're talkin about, but they are not on the list.

214 said:

Don't know what you're talkin about, but they are not on the list.

I don't think that poster said that they were on the list, but that if you wanted them to be there, then you should have voted for those records. It's a public survey, I guess anyone who signed up to that site could have voted.

MickyDolenz said:

214 said:

Don't know what you're talkin about, but they are not on the list.

I don't think that poster said that they were on the list, but that if you wanted them to be there, then you should have voted for those records. It's a public survey, I guess anyone who signed up to that site could have voted.

Ok I get it now.

jaawwnn said:

MarkThrust said:

I like the idea of the list. I might prefer it be created by critics than fans, though. We end up with the '150 albums by the 30 women in music we can think of'. Which might be telling on it's own.

Here you go, the original critics list that this was an answer to:

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/24/538387823/turning-the-tables-150-greatest-albums-made-by-women/


it is a slightly more interesting list; non-english speakers, Chaka Khan, Donna Summer, Mary J. Blige, Barbara Streisand, jazz albums and Madonna albums that aren't her debut all got representation although i'm sure we'll find a reason to moan that it didn't follow each of our own specific tastes

[Edited 4/12/18 5:10am]

It's a much more interesting list:

150. The Roches - The Roches (Warner Bros., 1979)

149. Alicia Keys - Songs In A Minor (J Records, 2001)

148. Terri Lyne Carrington - The Mosaic Project (Concord Jazz, 2011)

147. Meredith Monk - Dolmen Music (ECM, 1981)

146. Patty Griffin - Flaming Red (A&M, 1998)

145. Oumou Sangare - Moussolou (Women) (Kartell/World Circuit, 1989)

144. The Breeders - Last Splash (4AD/Elektra, 1993)

143. Robyn - Body Talk (Konichiwa Records, 2010)

142. Iris DeMent - My Life (Warner Bros., 1993)

141. Joanna Newsom - Ys (Drag City, 2006)

140. Norah Jones - Come Away with Me (Blue Note, 2002)

139. The Bangles - All Over the Place (Columbia, 1984)

138. Cocteau Twins - Heaven or Las Vegas (4AD, 1990)

137. Ofra Haza - 50 Gates Of Wisdom (Yemenite Songs) (Shanachie, 1987)

136. Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band - Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band (Apple Records, 1970)

135. The B-52's - The B-52's (Warner Bros., 1979)

134. Solange - A Seat at the Table (Saint/Columbia 2016)

133. Fanny - Fanny Hill (Reprise, 1972)

132. Shelby Lynne - I Am Shelby Lynne (Island/Mercury, 2000)

131. Shirley Horn - I Thought About You - Live At Vine St. (Verve Records, 1987)

130. Teena Marie - Wild and Peaceful (Motown Records, 1979)

129. Marianne Faithfull - Broken English (Island, 1979)

128. Pauline Oliveros, Stuart Dempster, Panaiotis - Deep Listening (New Albion, 1989)

127. Sonic Youth - Sister (SST, 1987)

126. The Carpenters - A Song for You (A&M Records, 1972)

125. Fiona Apple - Tidal (Work Group/Clean Slate/Columbia, 1996)

124. Carly Simon - No Secrets (Elektra, 1972)

123. Cris Williamson - The Changer and the Changed: A Record of the Times (Olivia Records, 1975)

122. Siouxsie and the Banshees - The Scream (Polydor, 1978)

121. Joni Mitchell - Hejira (Asylum, 1976)

120. Anita Baker - Rapture (Elektra, 1986)

119. The Slits - Cut (Island Records, 1979)

118. Chaka Khan - I Feel for You (Warner Bros., 1984)

117. Joan Jett - I Love Rock 'n' Roll (Boardwalk, 1981)

116. Macy Gray - On How Life Is (Epic, 1999)

115. La Lupe & Tito Puente - La Pareja (Fania/Tico Records, 1978)

114. Reba McEntire - Rumor Has It (MCA, 1990)

113. Aretha Franklin - Young, Gifted and Black (Atlantic Records, 1972)

112. Mercedes Sosa - Mercedes Sosa en Argentina (Universal Distribution/Philips, 1982)

111. Diamanda Galás - The Litanies of Satan (Y, 1982)

110. Miranda Lambert - Platinum (RCA Nashville, 2014)

109. Against Me! - Transgender Dysphoria Blues (Total Treble, 2014)

108. Gladys Knight and the Pips - Imagination (Buddah Records, 1973)

107. The Shangri-Las - Leader of the Pack (Red Bird Records, 1965)

106. No Doubt - Tragic Kingdom (Interscope, 1995)

105. Sheila E. - The Glamorous Life (Warner Bros., 1984)

104. ESG - Come Away With ESG (99 Records, 1983)

103. Umm Kulthum - Enta Omri (You Are My Life)(Sono, 1964)

102. Alabama Shakes - Sound & Color (ATO, 2015)

101. Eurythmics - Touch (RCA, 1983)

100. Buffy Sainte-Marie - It's My Way! (Vanguard Records, 1964)

99. Taylor Swift - Fearless (Big Machine Records, 2008)

98. Bikini Kill - Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah (Kill Rock Stars, 1993)

97. Mariah Carey - Daydream (Columbia Records, 1995)

96. Lil' Kim - Hard Core (Big Beat/Undeas Recordings, 1996)

95. Shakira - ¿Dónde Están los Ladrones? (Sony, 1998)

94. Sheryl Crow - Tuesday Night Music Club (A&M, 1993)

93. Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time (Jive Records, 1999)

92. Meshell Ndegeocello - Peace Beyond Passion (Maverick, 1996)

91. Alison Krauss And Union Station - New Favorite (Rounder, 2001)

90. Barbra Streisand - Funny Girl, Broadway Cast Album (Capitol Records, 1964)

89. Shania Twain - Come On Over (Mercury Records, 1997)

88. k. d. lang - Ingénue (Sire, 1992)

87. X - Los Angeles (Slash/Rhino, 1980)

86. Alice Coltrane - Journey in Satchidananda (GRP/Impulse!, 1971)

85. Joan Baez - Diamonds & Rust (A&M, 1975)

84. Roberta Flack - First Take (Atlantic, 1969)

83. Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billie Joe (Capitol Records, 1967)

82. Laura Nyro - New York Tendaberry (Columbia, 1969)

81. Sleater-Kinney - Dig Me Out (Kill Rock Stars, 1997)

80. Laurie Anderson - Big Science (Warner Bros., 1982)

79. Portishead - Dummy (Go! Beat, 1994)

78. The Bulgarian State Radio & Television Choir - Le Mystère Des Voix Bulgares (Nonesuch, 1987)

77. Aaliyah - Aaliyah (Blackground/Virgin America 2001)

76. Tammy Wynette - Stand By Your Man (Epic, 1969)

75. Donna Summer - Bad Girls (Casablanca, 1979)

74. The Raincoats - The Raincoats (Rough Trade, 1979)

73. Astrud Gilberto - The Astrud Gilberto Album (Verve Records, 1965)

72. The Runaways - The Runaways (Mercury, 1976)

71. Salt-N-Pepa - Blacks' Magic (London, 1990)

70. Stevie Nicks - Bella Donna (Modern, 1981)

69. Cyndi Lauper - She's So Unusual (Portrait/Sony 1983)

68. Rosanne Cash - King's Record Shop (Columbia, 1987)

67. Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got (Chrysalis Records, 1990)

66. Miriam Makeba - Pata Pata (Reprise, 1967)

65. Cassandra Wilson - Blue Light 'Til Dawn (Blue Note, 1993)

64. Spice Girls - Spice (Virgin, 1996)

63. Madonna - Like a Virgin (Sire, 1984)

62. Dixie Chicks - Wide Open Spaces (BMG/Sony, 1998)

61. Destiny's Child - The Writing's on the Wall (Columbia, 1999)

60. The Pretenders - Pretenders (Sire, 1980)

59. Indigo Girls - Indigo Girls (Epic, 1989)

58. Labelle - Nightbirds (Epic, 1974)

57. Mary J. Blige - What's the 411? (Uptown/MCA, 1992)

56. X-Ray Spex - Germfree Adolescents (EMI, 1978)

55. The Go-Gos - Beauty And The Beat (I.R.S., 1981)

54. Nico - Chelsea Girl (Verve, 1967)

53. Linda Ronstadt - Heart Like A Wheel (Capitol, 1974)

52. Bonnie Raitt - Nick Of Time (Capitol/EMI, 1989)

51. Sarah Vaughan - Sassy Swings Again (Mercury, 1967)

50. Hole - Live Through This (DGC, 1994)

49. Rickie Lee Jones - Pirates (Warner Bros., 1981)

48. Etta James - Rocks The House (Argo, 1964)

47. Celia Cruz - Son con Guaguanco (Emusica/Fania, 1966)

46. Emmylou Harris - Wrecking Ball (Elektra, 1995)

45. Dusty Springfield - Dusty in Memphis (Atlantic, 1969)

44. Heart - Dreamboat Annie (Mushroom, 1976)

43. M.I.A. - Kala (XL/Interscope, 2007)

42. Ella Fitzgerald - Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Johnny Mercer Song Book (Verve, 1964)

41. Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman (Elektra, 1988)

40. The Staple Singers - Be Altitude: Respect Yourself (Stax, 1972)

39. Gillian Welch - Time (The Revelator) (Acony Records, 2001)

38. Odetta - It's a Mighty World (RCA Victor, 1964)

37. Kate Bush - Hounds Of Love (EMI, 1985)

36. Grace Jones - Nightclubbing (Island Records, 1981)

35. Blondie - Parallel Lines (Chrysalis, 1978)

34. Tina Turner - Private Dancer (Capitol, 1984)

33. Queen Latifah - All Hail The Queen (Tommy Boy, 1989)

32. Björk - Post (Elektra, 1995)

31. Liz Phair - Exile In Guyville (Capitol/EMI/Matador, 1993)

30. Adele - 21 (Columbia/XL, 2011)
29. Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill (Maverick, 1995)

28. Nina Simone - Nina Simone Sings the Blues (RCA Victor, 1967)

27. Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes (Atlantic, 1992)

26. TLC - CrazySexyCool (LaFace, 1994)

25. Ani Difranco - Little Plastic Castle (Righteous Babe Records, 1998)

24. Loretta Lynn - Coal Miner's Daughter (Decca, 1970)

23. Aretha Franklin - Amazing Grace (Atlantic, 1972)

22. Sade - Diamond Life (Sony, 1984)

21. PJ Harvey - Rid Of Me (Island Records, 1993)

20. The Ronettes - Presenting the Fabulous Ronettes Featuring Veronica (Philles Records, 1964)

19. Selena - Amor Prohibido (EMI Latin, 1994)

18. Lucinda Williams - Car Wheels On A Gravel Road (Mercury, 1998)

17. Janet Jackson - Control (A&M, 1986)

16. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours (Warner Bros., 1977)

15. Diana Ross and the Supremes - Where Did Our Love Go (Motown, 1964)

14. Whitney Houston - Whitney Houston (Arista, 1985)

13. Madonna - Like a Prayer (Sire, 1989)

12. Erykah Badu - Baduizm (Universal, 1997)

11. Dolly Parton - Coat Of Many Colors (RCA Records, 1971)

10. Carole King - Tapestry (Ode, 1971)

9. Amy Winehouse - Back To Black (Island, 2006)

8. Janis Joplin - Pearl (Columbia, 1971)

7. Patti Smith - Horses (Arista, 1975)

6. Beyoncé - Lemonade (Parkwood/Columbia, 2016)

5. Missy Elliott - Supa Dupa Fly (The Goldmind/Elektra, 1997)

4. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man The Way I Love You (Atlantic, 1967)

3. Nina Simone - I Put A Spell on You (Philips, 1965)

2. Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Ruffhouse/Columbia, 1998)

1. Joni Mitchell - Blue (Reprise, 1971)

Women of color holding down 5 of the top 6 slots on the critics list!

gandorb said:

Women of color holding down 5 of the top 6 slots on the critics list!

Pretty awesome isn't it? I like the critics choices the best.

I like Kate Bush, but she was definitely overrepresented on the fan list.

sexton said:

I like Kate Bush, but she was definitely overrepresented on the fan list.

I really like Kate too, yet agree with your assessment. Too many other great albums by other artists to chose from. If they insisted on having so many of her albums, I wish they would have included the amazing Ariel album.

Glad to see Shakira in this list.