RJOrion said:

Tontoman22 said:

Beyonce followed Donna Summer ...who kicked the door down for women (and all artists) to build career's on dance music. Summer was pop music's first female mega star selliing millions of records world wide and crossing into multiple genres. She was the first female to dominate the billboard charts. The first of the modern era to have #1 single and #1 album simultaneoulsy. The first to have 3 #1 singles, and 5 top 10's or 5 top 5's in a calendar year (1979). The first to have 2 songs in the top 3, (twice in 4 months). Billboard's top Hot 100 artist from 1976-82 (with 12 top 10's, 10 to 5s) pre-mtv era. Beyonce is compariable with Turner and Summer...not Ross. As far as the list, someone's opinon who is not very well informed....if any woman changed the face of pop music, Donna Summer sure did...

.i can dig the Donna Summer comparison...i used Diana Ross to compare the successful international commercialization of both ... Diana Ross was the first black r&b/pop artist to become an international superstar and branch out into other artistic endeavors like movies, tv, and fashion...and to sustain it over a long period of time ...Donna Summer was unfortunately pigeonholed as a disco artist, and because of that, her flame more or less went out when disco passed...

No....Ross was not the first black artist to become an international superstar. Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald preceded her, (we can/should also dropped the R & B, as the Supremes and most of Motown, was marketed pop and towards success on the pop charts, and a white audience) They were not R & B artists, like Dionne Warwick, who incidentally started charting internationally at the begining of 1964, and before the Supremes who starting charting internationally in the fall of 1964. Also the market internationally was expanded by Summer. Before her, it mainly consisted of the UK, the Netherlans and France. She opened up the markets across Europe (because she was there in the late 60s and earlier 70's on the stages and recording). Markets like Germany, Belguim, Italy, Sweden, Switerland, Austria, Norway..etc.. and the South American market. Disco did died (1980) and Summer did suffer a big decrease in airplay because of the rockers (Dj's - who refused to play artists associated with the genre), but she transceded disco and went beyond. Ross's last top 10 hit in the US market was 1984, Summer's was 1989. Relevant because Beyonce was born in 1981, Summer's 1983 HBO concert was played consistently throughout the 1980's and early 90's on MTV, in the early 90's they switched to Tina Turner. I have heard Beyonce talk about the influence of both Summer and Turner. Her musical style is certainly more reminscent of Summer (and the music trail she blazed). As far as Ross, braching out into fashion, her attempt at design through the movie Mahogany failed miserably. Also everyone was on tv, that was the medium back then, with the variety shows and music programs.

Tontoman22 said:

RJOrion said:

Tontoman22 said: .i can dig the Donna Summer comparison...i used Diana Ross to compare the successful international commercialization of both ... Diana Ross was the first black r&b/pop artist to become an international superstar and branch out into other artistic endeavors like movies, tv, and fashion...and to sustain it over a long period of time ...Donna Summer was unfortunately pigeonholed as a disco artist, and because of that, her flame more or less went out when disco passed...

No....Ross was not the first black artist to become an international superstar. Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald preceded her, (we can/should also dropped the R & B, as the Supremes and most of Motown, was marketed pop and towards success on the pop charts, and a white audience) They were not R & B artists, like Dionne Warwick, who incidentally started charting internationally at the begining of 1964, and before the Supremes who starting charting internationally in the fall of 1964. Also the market internationally was expanded by Summer. Before her, it mainly consisted of the UK, the Netherlans and France. She opened up the markets across Europe (because she was there in the late 60s and earlier 70's on the stages and recording). Markets like Germany, Belguim, Italy, Sweden, Switerland, Austria, Norway..etc.. and the South American market. Disco did died (1980) and Summer did suffer a big decrease in airplay because of the rockers (Dj's - who refused to play artists associated with the genre), but she transceded disco and went beyond. Ross's last top 10 hit in the US market was 1984, Summer's was 1989. Relevant because Beyonce was born in 1981, Summer's 1983 HBO concert was played consistently throughout the 1980's and early 90's on MTV, in the early 90's they switched to Tina Turner. I have heard Beyonce talk about the influence of both Summer and Turner. Her musical style is certainly more reminscent of Summer (and the music trail she blazed). As far as Ross, braching out into fashion, her attempt at design through the movie Mahogany failed miserably. Also everyone was on tv, that was the medium back then, with the variety shows and music programs.

neither Billie Holiday nor Dionne Warwick had the sustained international success and appeal that Diana Ross did...for one, Billie Holiday's substance abuse struggles and the limitations society put on black women at that time wouldnt allow it...as for Dionne Warwick, no disrespect but she just didnt ever have the physical appearance or the commercial marketablility that Diana Ross had....ever see Dionne Warwick as a lead in a major motion picture?...of course not, she wasnt an attractive woman...as superficial as that may seem, its one of the reasons she cant be categorized the same way as an international, well-rounded, multi-threat artist/performer....like Diana Ross, or Tina Turner, or even Beyonce...and regarding Beyonce's influence...todays artist will continue to have more influence than their historical predecessors, if for no other reason than the current electronic age allows todays artist to reach (and influence ) WAY more people..not because theyre more talented...in fact, most people that know about Billie Holiday today, know about her because of Diana Ross' award winning portrayal of her in "Lady Sings The Blues".... irony...

Billie Holliday, Dionne Warwick, Josephine Baker, Ella Fitzgerald, Sara Vaughan...they were all talented pioneers...but their reach was much more limited than today's artist...and therefore so was their influence... a couple of them had even died before we could really learn the extent of their greatness...no disrespect to them, or their legacies...Diana Ross could STILL sell out a show...and shes like 74 years old...

RJOrion said:

Tontoman22 said:

No....Ross was not the first black artist to become an international superstar. Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald preceded her, (we can/should also dropped the R & B, as the Supremes and most of Motown, was marketed pop and towards success on the pop charts, and a white audience) They were not R & B artists, like Dionne Warwick, who incidentally started charting internationally at the begining of 1964, and before the Supremes who starting charting internationally in the fall of 1964. Also the market internationally was expanded by Summer. Before her, it mainly consisted of the UK, the Netherlans and France. She opened up the markets across Europe (because she was there in the late 60s and earlier 70's on the stages and recording). Markets like Germany, Belguim, Italy, Sweden, Switerland, Austria, Norway..etc.. and the South American market. Disco did died (1980) and Summer did suffer a big decrease in airplay because of the rockers (Dj's - who refused to play artists associated with the genre), but she transceded disco and went beyond. Ross's last top 10 hit in the US market was 1984, Summer's was 1989. Relevant because Beyonce was born in 1981, Summer's 1983 HBO concert was played consistently throughout the 1980's and early 90's on MTV, in the early 90's they switched to Tina Turner. I have heard Beyonce talk about the influence of both Summer and Turner. Her musical style is certainly more reminscent of Summer (and the music trail she blazed). As far as Ross, braching out into fashion, her attempt at design through the movie Mahogany failed miserably. Also everyone was on tv, that was the medium back then, with the variety shows and music programs.

neither Billie Holiday nor Dionne Warwick had the sustained international success and appeal that Diana Ross did...for one, Billie Holiday's substance abuse struggles and the limitations society put on black women at that time wouldnt allow it...as for Dionne Warwick, no disrespect but she just didnt ever have the physical appearance or the commercial marketablility that Diana Ross had....ever see Dionne Warwick as a lead in a major motion picture?...of course not, she wasnt an attractive woman...as superficial as that may seem, its one of the reasons she cant be categorized the same way as an international, well-rounded, multi-threat artist/performer....like Diana Ross, or Tina Turner, or even Beyonce...and regarding Beyonce's influence...todays artist will continue to have more influence than their historical predecessors, if for no other reason than the current electronic age allows todays artist to reach (and influence ) WAY more people..not because theyre more talented...in fact, most people that know about Billie Holiday today, know about her because of Diana Ross' award winning portrayal of her in "Lady Sings The Blues".... irony...

Read what I wrote, I refered to Dionne as being a R & B artist and not a pop aritst. Don't know why you went on about her not being as successful as Ross ....never implied it. Secondly, we must deal in realities...Ross recieved a Golden Globe Award for best new star...period. Liv Ulmann won the award for best actress. You are either misinformed or deliberately stretching the truth. The comment about people knowing Billie Holiday, because of the movie is laughable, the movie is over 45 years old and not some kind of most watched classic or something, it's all but forgotten (except by her fans). Also, as far as international stardom, Ross appeared in the top 10 aritsts, worldwide 3 times (twice with the Supremes in 64 & 65 and once as a solo artist in 80) Turner once in 84, Summer 4 times (76,77,78,79) and was the top female artist of the decade worldwide. Beyonce 5 times (twice with DC in 2000 & 2001, & 2003,2006,2009). Ross definitely kept a level of stardom in 70's through television and movies but that was mostly in the US market, her music didn't sell particualary well at home or worldwide. Her most commerically succesful time as a solo artist, was from 80-84 (where in the US she had 8 top 10 hits). Her 1980 album (her biggest) and her duet with Lionel Richie (her biggest hit), help her secured her deal with RCA in 81, in the US. But she only managed 4 more top 10's and albums sales weren't what was anticipated. RCA released her before her 7 album deal was completed. Yes, she has always been a big music star in the UK, but international scence is more vast as we know....

RJOrion said:

Billie Holliday, Dionne Warwick, Josephine Baker, Ella Fitzgerald, Sara Vaughan...they were all talented pioneers...but their reach was much more limited than today's artist...and therefore so was their influence... a couple of them had even died before we could really learn the extent of their greatness...no disrespect to them, or their legacies...Diana Ross could STILL sell out a show...and shes like 74 years old...

There are many music artist of her generation who can sell out shows, but they cannot sell out the big venues like the current artist of today.