StrangeButTrue said:

StrangeButTrue said:

StrangeButTrue said:

EmmaMcG said:

Never heard of her but while I concede that she has a point, I'd also like to point out that Bruno Mars is a pop star. He's not expected to reinvent the wheel when it comes to the type of music he puts out. All he's obliged to do is put out music that people will listen to. I don't like his music myself, but a lot of people do and his record sales is proof of that. I don't think he cares what this woman or anyone else for that matter thinks of him. He's doing the music he likes and making a lot of money doing it so more power to him. In trying to find out who Meshell is I gave her a quick Google and I was not surprised to see she has a new album coming out next week. Which probably explains why she said what she said about Bruno Mars. He's a bigger name than she is so she can mention his name as a way of promoting her own work. Smart move. I do have to question the wisdom in her calling Bruno Mars a karaoke artist when her new album is a covers album though.

I get your drift, but for better or worse she is about as far as anyone could get from being a karaoke singer. I haven't heard her covers, but I imagine some of them will almost be unrecognizable from the original. She didn't initiate the Bruno Mars topic, so I doubt it was her M.O. to make controversial statements about Bruno. She just responded honestly without regard to political correctness, which is exactly what I would expect her and only a few others to do in that situation.

Graycap23 said:

Lol.......a professional musician syas what I've been saying all along about Bruno Mars:

What did you think of Bruno that night at the Grammys?

What he’s doing is karaoke, basically. With “Finesse,” in particular, I think he was simply copying Bell Biv DeVoe. I think he was copying Babyface. And definitely there were some elements of Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis back when they worked with Human League. I feel like there’s just all these threads running through there but not in a genuine way.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8232751/meshell-ndegeocello-ventriloquism

ala....the great interpolator

People often jump to conclusions when they decide they wanna criticize some aspect of art, in this case: commercial music.

Yes, that is an art in itself. People just don't see it. Most music journalists and folks like Ms Meshell are very adamant about the very faux fact that music is supposed to be about reinvention, breaking new grounds, that lyrics are supposed to reflect the human condition, that the artist's vision ought to be personal. No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

You just can't ignore how much flairs Bruno puts into one 3 minute song. He's mastered the art of commercial music to the point where anything funky/uplifting from the 2010s will immediately be refered to as "Bruno Mars sound". And I'm the first to say that all instruments/composition ideas he uses on his recordings are heavily rooted in 90s R&B and such styles. He doesn't steal the music note for note, it's not a precise manifesteo like that. The only samples he used in his music is The Gap Band for Uptown Funk and Shai for Straight Up and Down. All of 24K Magic is original in terms of notes/chords, but not ideas & flair, which is what bothers people (?) --- Contradictory as fuck! If this same method was applied to an obscure genre like IDM or Tri hop or jazz hip hop, I assure you, critics won't give A SHIT, because to them that sort of music is by default a "prestigious" style of music that should be criticized only in terms of lyrics or sonic quality, not its roots/influences.

It's not even the "nothing is original" argument. It's just that renowned artists, whether filmmakers, designers, musicians... most challenge themselves to bring new stuff to the table. It shouldn't be the case. A good pop song sometimes is all it takes to uplift 10,000 people. Bruno does that like it's a piece of cake. His tour has broken records in all territories, most recently New Zealand. Get it? Guys? People love his sound, they love his voice. They don't care he stole Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' keyboard sound or the new-jack-swing drum syncopation. Here you go

[Edited 3/9/18 6:51am]

laurarichardson said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol.......a professional musician syas what I've been saying all along about Bruno Mars:

What did you think of Bruno that night at the Grammys?

What he’s doing is karaoke, basically. With “Finesse,” in particular, I think he was simply copying Bell Biv DeVoe. I think he was copying Babyface. And definitely there were some elements of Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis back when they worked with Human League. I feel like there’s just all these threads running through there but not in a genuine way.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8232751/meshell-ndegeocello-ventriloquism

Maybe Michelle needs to put out some music that people will actually like and buy before attacking someone else. She always has some shit to say but her music over the last 20 years has sucked ass.

She is a great bassist who should just be in some really great band and shut up.

Before you go off I know people who grew up with her in Maryland. Chick has always been strange and difficult to deal with it.

Maybe Prince was right about her.

I really enjoyed her album The World Has Made Me the Man of My Dreams. Her new album due out on 3/16/18 is streaming on NPR and it sounds great to my ears.

Shawy89 said:

People often jump to conclusions when they decide they wanna criticize some aspect of art, in this case: commercial music.

Yes, that is an art in itself. People just don't see it. Most music journalists and folks like Ms Meshell are very adamant about the very faux fact that music is supposed to be about reinvention, breaking new grounds, that lyrics are supposed to reflect the human condition, that the artist's vision ought to be personal. No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

You just can't ignore how much flairs Bruno puts into one 3 minute song. He's mastered the art of commercial music to the point where anything funky/uplifting from the 2010s will immediately be refered to as "Bruno Mars sound". And I'm the first to say that all instruments/composition ideas he uses on his recordings are heavily rooted in 90s R&B and such styles. He doesn't steal the music note for note, it's not a precise manifesteo like that. The only samples he used in his music is The Gap Band for Uptown Funk and Shai for Straight Up and Down. All of 24K Magic is original in terms of notes/chords, but not ideas & flair, which is what bothers people (?) --- Contradictory as fuck! If this same method was applied to an obscure genre like IDM or Tri hop or jazz hip hop, I assure you, critics won't give A SHIT, because to them that sort of music is by default a "prestigious" style of music that should be criticized only in terms of lyrics or sonic quality, not its roots/influences.

It's not even the "nothing is original" argument. It's just that renowned artists, whether filmmakers, designers, musicians... most challenge themselves to bring new stuff to the table. It shouldn't be the case. A good pop song sometimes is all it takes to uplift 10,000 people. Bruno does that like it's a piece of cake. His tour has broken records in all territories, most recently New Zealand. Get it? Guys? People love his sound, they love his voice. They don't care he stole Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' keyboard sound or the new-jack-swing drum syncopation. Here you go

[Edited 3/9/18 6:51am]

Got that right, making me dance and remember good music again.
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis praised Bruno during the Superbowl Live event in MPLS last month for representing.

Shawy89 said:

People often jump to conclusions when they decide they wanna criticize some aspect of art, in this case: commercial music.

Yes, that is an art in itself. People just don't see it. Most music journalists and folks like Ms Meshell are very adamant about the very faux fact that music is supposed to be about reinvention, breaking new grounds, that lyrics are supposed to reflect the human condition, that the artist's vision ought to be personal. No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

You just can't ignore how much flairs Bruno puts into one 3 minute song. He's mastered the art of commercial music to the point where anything funky/uplifting from the 2010s will immediately be refered to as "Bruno Mars sound". And I'm the first to say that all instruments/composition ideas he uses on his recordings are heavily rooted in 90s R&B and such styles. He doesn't steal the music note for note, it's not a precise manifesteo like that. The only samples he used in his music is The Gap Band for Uptown Funk and Shai for Straight Up and Down. All of 24K Magic is original in terms of notes/chords, but not ideas & flair, which is what bothers people (?) --- Contradictory as fuck! If this same method was applied to an obscure genre like IDM or Tri hop or jazz hip hop, I assure you, critics won't give A SHIT, because to them that sort of music is by default a "prestigious" style of music that should be criticized only in terms of lyrics or sonic quality, not its roots/influences.

It's not even the "nothing is original" argument. It's just that renowned artists, whether filmmakers, designers, musicians... most challenge themselves to bring new stuff to the table. It shouldn't be the case. A good pop song sometimes is all it takes to uplift 10,000 people. Bruno does that like it's a piece of cake. His tour has broken records in all territories, most recently New Zealand. Get it? Guys? People love his sound, they love his voice. They don't care he stole Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' keyboard sound or the new-jack-swing drum syncopation. Here you go

[Edited 3/9/18 6:51am]

"

No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

Thank for this. Some commonsense for once.

Just because Meshell has the same opinion of Gray doesn't make it fact. Like Gray always like to ram down our throats - think for yourself people! Enjoy what you enjoy!!

Shawy89 said:

People often jump to conclusions when they decide they wanna criticize some aspect of art, in this case: commercial music.

Yes, that is an art in itself. People just don't see it. Most music journalists and folks like Ms Meshell are very adamant about the very faux fact that music is supposed to be about reinvention, breaking new grounds, that lyrics are supposed to reflect the human condition, that the artist's vision ought to be personal. No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

You just can't ignore how much flairs Bruno puts into one 3 minute song. He's mastered the art of commercial music to the point where anything funky/uplifting from the 2010s will immediately be refered to as "Bruno Mars sound". And I'm the first to say that all instruments/composition ideas he uses on his recordings are heavily rooted in 90s R&B and such styles. He doesn't steal the music note for note, it's not a precise manifesteo like that. The only samples he used in his music is The Gap Band for Uptown Funk and Shai for Straight Up and Down. All of 24K Magic is original in terms of notes/chords, but not ideas & flair, which is what bothers people (?) --- Contradictory as fuck! If this same method was applied to an obscure genre like IDM or Tri hop or jazz hip hop, I assure you, critics won't give A SHIT, because to them that sort of music is by default a "prestigious" style of music that should be criticized only in terms of lyrics or sonic quality, not its roots/influences.

It's not even the "nothing is original" argument. It's just that renowned artists, whether filmmakers, designers, musicians... most challenge themselves to bring new stuff to the table. It shouldn't be the case. A good pop song sometimes is all it takes to uplift 10,000 people. Bruno does that like it's a piece of cake. His tour has broken records in all territories, most recently New Zealand. Get it? Guys? People love his sound, they love his voice. They don't care he stole Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' keyboard sound or the new-jack-swing drum syncopation. Here you go

[Edited 3/9/18 6:51am]

.

Its true, people truly don't care that his sound sounds like other people's sound. People also voted for Donald Trump and encourage each other to eat Tide Pods.

EmmaMcG said:

StrangeButTrue said:

The OP omitted the follow-up question which addresses EmmaMcG's post on her cover album:

.

How fine is that balance between karaoke and artistic interpretation?

.

It’s really a matter of musicality and being able to manipulate the tropes in a way that makes it feel personal. It can’t just be a pastiche, where you’re copying or mimicking an old sound or just doing karaoke. There has to be a form of sincerity.

.

Also this piece a bit later in the article explains the inspiration for the cover album concept:

.

What was it that inspired you to focus on this particular era?

.

I guess it was sparked by just sitting around with my friends and sometimes we enjoy each other’s company by dialing through the periods of music that most affected us. The covers idea was more so the result of a very intense year I experienced with the death of a parent and the dementia of another. And it was nice to just sit with tunes that you love and you know in and out in an emotional way. It was cathartic for me to try to give them another life, these songs.

[Edited 3/8/18 13:43pm]

Ah, so she's a hypocrite. I see.

Either you've never really heard Meshel's music in depth or you don't read too carefully because to me it's very clear what she's talking about. She interprets music with a huge range of personal investment in the sound and meaning she's giving the basic song structure and lyrics written by other people in this album. That's what true musicians are capable of doing that karaoke singer's can't. That's what separated Nina Simone from every other singer that played songs written for others. She makes them her OWN. It's never an issue of imitation because she has no need to do that. She's working basically in her own genre/style since many albums ago.

StrangeButTrue said:

Shawy89 said:

People often jump to conclusions when they decide they wanna criticize some aspect of art, in this case: commercial music.

Yes, that is an art in itself. People just don't see it. Most music journalists and folks like Ms Meshell are very adamant about the very faux fact that music is supposed to be about reinvention, breaking new grounds, that lyrics are supposed to reflect the human condition, that the artist's vision ought to be personal. No. The de facto attribution you can bestow on music is that it should bring people together (whether in bad or good). That's the only thing any song should have in order to be good, universally speaking.

You just can't ignore how much flairs Bruno puts into one 3 minute song. He's mastered the art of commercial music to the point where anything funky/uplifting from the 2010s will immediately be refered to as "Bruno Mars sound". And I'm the first to say that all instruments/composition ideas he uses on his recordings are heavily rooted in 90s R&B and such styles. He doesn't steal the music note for note, it's not a precise manifesteo like that. The only samples he used in his music is The Gap Band for Uptown Funk and Shai for Straight Up and Down. All of 24K Magic is original in terms of notes/chords, but not ideas & flair, which is what bothers people (?) --- Contradictory as fuck! If this same method was applied to an obscure genre like IDM or Tri hop or jazz hip hop, I assure you, critics won't give A SHIT, because to them that sort of music is by default a "prestigious" style of music that should be criticized only in terms of lyrics or sonic quality, not its roots/influences.

It's not even the "nothing is original" argument. It's just that renowned artists, whether filmmakers, designers, musicians... most challenge themselves to bring new stuff to the table. It shouldn't be the case. A good pop song sometimes is all it takes to uplift 10,000 people. Bruno does that like it's a piece of cake. His tour has broken records in all territories, most recently New Zealand. Get it? Guys? People love his sound, they love his voice. They don't care he stole Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis' keyboard sound or the new-jack-swing drum syncopation. Here you go

[Edited 3/9/18 6:51am]

.

Its true, people truly don't care that his sound sounds like other people's sound. People also voted for Donald Trump and encourage each other to eat Tide Pods.

Everybody is influcenced by somebody. No one seemed to mind Prince's Sly Stone influnces.

You missed the point big time.

gandorb said:

She just responded honestly without regard to political correctness, which is exactly what I would expect her and only a few others to do in that situation.

Yeah, like her or not, she speaks the truth as she feels it. I've never known her to skirt around topics. She's straight forward and you either take it or leave it. She's not asking anyone to listen to her words as gospel, she's telling what she, as a person who knows rock & r&B genres and the musicianship behind them as well as many of the historical greats, hears and sees when she listens to him

http://www.newsweek.com/b...sei-838558

.

From the article:

.

This isn't the first time Sensei called out the "24K Magic" singer, and it likely won't be the last. "There’s been a question of whether or not he’s a cultural appropriator for quite some time now; it’s just really bubbled over since his Grammy win," she said. "Generally speaking, we focus solely on white appropriators. Yet artists like Bruno who are persons of color, but aren’t Black, muddy the waters a bit."

.

In the modern era of racial politics, where artists like Katy Perry, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus and others are held accountable for borrowing from non-white cultures, it's worth including Mars in that conversation. Perhaps this debate signals a need for more nuance when it comes to the topic of cultural appropriation—or maybe, as Sensei believes, it's simply time for Mars to face the ire his white peers are all too familiar with.

.

As for critics who say African-Americans have bigger fish to fry than Mars getting funky uptown? "Bruno is someone who, in my opinion, is willingly benefiting from his racial ambiguity in order to utilize the system of white supremacy to get ahead. That makes him an agent of white supremacy, and that makes this a BIG FISH."

March 9, 2018: A number of activists are calling for Black people to "boycott" Bruno Mars. The activists believe that Bruno is "culturally appropriating" African American culture.

"Bruno Mars is 100 percent a cultural appropriator," Youtuber Sensei Aishitemasu states. "He is racially ambiguous. He is not black, at all, and he plays up his racial ambiguity to be able to do cross-genre and going into different places."

"I don't even think that Michael Jackson, now, in this day in age, would be able to get to the point that he got to previously," she continued. "And a huge part of that is because people have realized that they prefer their black music and their black culture from a non-black face," adding "Bruno Mars got that Grammy because white people love him because she's not black, period. The issue is: We want our black culture from non-black bodies. And Bruno Mars is like — bam, I'll give it to you."

This is not the first time that he has been accused of appropriating Black culture. Throughout 2017 there were several thinkpieces online debating the issue.

A writer for The Root came under fire from Mars fans when she posted a thread about him saying:

"I really need y'all to stop with this Bruno Mars praise and be more critical about the ways we understand appropriation. Bruno Mars does not identify as Black. Let's get that clear at the outset. These claims that Bruno Mars is "bringing Funk back" are erasive to Black Funk artists who pioneered the tradition. FUNK. NEVER. LEFT. Yes, he gives "credit" to Funk artists on occasion. He also has a primarily white audience which has no memory or care for Black artists."

I'll pass, which really doesn't mean much since Bruno ain't making that much money off me anyways. So I guess I'll just sit and watch and smh.

lezama said:

EmmaMcG said:

lezama said:

Either you've never really heard Meshel's music in depth or you don't read too carefully because to me it's very clear what she's talking about. She interprets music with a huge range of personal investment in the sound and meaning she's giving the basic song structure and lyrics written by other people in this album. That's what true musicians are capable of doing that karaoke singer's can't. That's what separated Nina Simone from every other singer that played songs written for others. She makes them her OWN. It's never an issue of imitation because she has no need to do that. She's working basically in her own genre/style since many albums ago.

She seems very arrogant, which I don't like. Now, I'll admit that I'd never even heard of her before reading this thread but having heard some of her stuff on YouTube, I'm not impressed. And for the record, I don't like Bruno Mars either but I still think that this woman is being incredibly arrogant in calling out another artist as karaoke. What gives her the right to make assertions like that? How can she determine the artistic expression or lack of it in another artist's music? She's entitled to her own opinion but to present your opinion as fact is another thing entirely.

Well fair enough. She's said thing in the past that I've disagreed with too. I think she has a point here, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, they occupy two different worlds in music.

RJOrion said:

March 9, 2018: A number of activists are calling for Black people to "boycott" Bruno Mars. The activists believe that Bruno is "culturally appropriating" African American culture.

"Bruno Mars is 100 percent a cultural appropriator," Youtuber Sensei Aishitemasu states. "He is racially ambiguous. He is not black, at all, and he plays up his racial ambiguity to be able to do cross-genre and going into different places."

"I don't even think that Michael Jackson, now, in this day in age, would be able to get to the point that he got to previously," she continued. "And a huge part of that is because people have realized that they prefer their black music and their black culture from a non-black face," adding "Bruno Mars got that Grammy because white people love him because she's not black, period. The issue is: We want our black culture from non-black bodies. And Bruno Mars is like — bam, I'll give it to you."

This is not the first time that he has been accused of appropriating Black culture. Throughout 2017 there were several thinkpieces online debating the issue.

A writer for The Root came under fire from Mars fans when she posted a thread about him saying:

"I really need y'all to stop with this Bruno Mars praise and be more critical about the ways we understand appropriation. Bruno Mars does not identify as Black. Let's get that clear at the outset. These claims that Bruno Mars is "bringing Funk back" are erasive to Black Funk artists who pioneered the tradition. FUNK. NEVER. LEFT. Yes, he gives "credit" to Funk artists on occasion. He also has a primarily white audience which has no memory or care for Black artists."

I can't get behind any of this argument. This hyper racial territorialization schtich is really dumb. If you don't like someone, don't listen to them. If somebody you're more in tune with in funk, R&B or whatever isn't getting recognition that you think they should have, then promote them! Give them the attention they deserve! There's zero need to crap in someone else's lane.

.

I'm not even a fan of Mars, but I can't support people who want to act as cultural guardians for the rest of a community as though the rest of the world shares their perspective. They need to take several seats.

what sucks is when people comprare him 2 prince prince is a musican first this kind is something generated by the record companies to make a hit record yeah i like his little music but there is nothing great about it he makes lazy music no real energy

the project is streaming on NPR... i dig it

If Prince was here right now looking at this bullshit

EmmaMcG said:

Nah. Meshell has a solid fan base. And they're across the spectrum. I've seen her perform live at least 4 times and she always has a solid turn out. People into Bruno MIGHT like her music but I'd guess they're into a more mature sound if they're consistent buyers of her music and shows.

Germanegro said:

She's looking for the easiest promo to get R&B fans to try her music as a juxtaposition to Bruno's steez. Music is a tough biz.

Mars has a level of musicianship that isn't necessarily "karaoke-ish" and he stays in his lane. So,
I think Ndegeocello is kinda hating on this dude simply for being 2018's version of a pop star.

Yes, I'm one of her fanbase and also a listener across the spectrum. I think Bruno is alright. He does a different thing than Me'shell. She's also not selling to stadium audiences, not that she cares, but with that said she speaks in her music mag interviews to delineate the difference between Bruno and her own interpretive technique to let some of the thirsty masses in on her own artistic efforts and turn more ears to listen up to her music, and hopefully pay for the treat. You've got to blow your horn when you can to have a chance to collect hard-earned

lezama said:

Nah. Meshell has a solid fan base. And they're across the spectrum. I've seen her perform live at least 4 times and she always has a solid turn out. People into Bruno MIGHT like her music but I'd guess they're into a more mature sound if they're consistent buyers of her music and shows.

Germanegro said:

She's looking for the easiest promo to get R&B fans to try her music as a juxtaposition to Bruno's steez. Music is a tough biz.

Meshell has a devout fanbase. Her remark has nothing to do with sales boasting. Not everybody who has a different opinion is "hating". Why are people so touchy?