PHOENIX @PhoenixLaNegra

So...the bass line for Billie Jean was borrowed from Hall & Oates, they made a guitar lick from Vangelis funky for Billie Jean, then swiped the beat from Rick James' Ghetto Life...wow. Just wow.

SoulAlive said:

Quincy Jones was the producer,so wouldn’t he be the one who is guilty of “stealing” music from other sources? Or,is he implying that Michael created the music while he simply supervised the proceedings?

He seems to be doing both. He acted like MJ would just come in with something and then get it finished. But did he tell Q, "Oh I heard this song, let's us that" or did Q just know every single song ever written and recognize whatever MJ allegedly stole?

I would have loved to hear how Q, a man always with few reservations, went after MJ about his surgery.

I was shocked to hear about Cyndi Lauper - but you know, she was young. You're always surrounded by sycophants at times like that. It was probably more them than her. And the necklace story is on the VHS of We Are The World recording session.

SoulAlive said:

Quincy Jones was the producer,so wouldn’t he be the one who is guilty of “stealing” music from other sources? Or,is he implying that Michael created the music while he simply supervised the proceedings?

Quincy EVEN ADMITTED 2 Rick James that THEY borrowed/stoled some of the Bassline from "Give It To Me Baby" and made it "Thriller"!!!! But wouldn't Quincy be JUST as complicit??

woogiebear said:

Quincy EVEN ADMITTED 2 Rick James that THEY borrowed/stoled some of the Bassline from "Give It To Me Baby" and made it "Thriller"!!!! But wouldn't Quincy be JUST as complicit??

Except it was the legendary Rod Temperton who wrote "Thriller", not Quincy or MJ, and was originally called "Starlight". But I can see the comparison w/ the two...sorta.

I respect Quincy but I'm not feeling his interviews... At all.

My take on it is sometimes its not what a person says, but how they say it. And since Quincy is who he is, and has been where he's been, he should know that(which i know he does)...And not only know it, but respect it.

Anyway, he seems to not care, so whatever...

woogiebear said:

JoeyC said:

SoulAlive said:

JoeyC said:

I respect Quincy but I'm not feeling his interviews... At all.

My take on it is sometimes its not what a person says, but how they say it. And since Quincy is who he is, and has been where he's been, he should know that(which i know he does)...And not only know it, but respect it.

Anyway, he seems to not care, so whatever...

I feel the same way.I respect and admire him but it’s sad that this is how he wants to go out : by doing these provocative interviews and ruffling feathers.Maybe he’s just bored in his old age and wants to stir up some controversy? It’s not a good look for him,smh

Exactly. A lot of people look up to Quincy. The man is an elder statesman and he should do his best to act like one. He can leave all that controversial stuff for the kids.

I am interested in hearing his stories and such(even though i may not agree with some of his opinions). But not in the way he's approaching it.

[Edited 2/8/18 1:21am]

A lot of you have said the same how I feel about all this, but I thought I'd still post; I've always loved the guy (Q), his productions and solo albums, pretty much everything he's ever done and consider him one of my biggest influences.

But I've cringed every time in recent times whenever he's done an interview. It's especially rough because the media always picks it up and runs with it. It's also tough to watch his TV interviews or (rare) talk show appearances because his mind seems like it's slipping and he rambles about everything and everybody. Sometimes - I feel - when it isn't entirely factual or accurate... He worked with most people and had some innovations in the process, but not EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING.

Someone already posted it, but yeah, Greg Phillinganes talks about the DSTYGE thing on that Red Bull Music Academy lecture, and he didn't seem that pissed about it - the whole lecture is essential viewing, by the way!!

TrivialPursuit said:

Let's not forget that had it not been for those older artists, Prince wouldn't have had shit to play in the 90s when he disavowed his WB catalog until his contract was up and he only played those artists songs; the aftershow in Belgium is a good example of that.

.

What nonsense. Letitgo isn't a WB song? Pink Cashmere isn't a WB song? I Love U In Me isn't a WB song? Peach isn't a WB song? 7 isn't a WB song? http://www.princevault.co...March_1995

.

As for that aftershow: most of the band was playing on rented instruments, plus covers etc. were usual fare during aftershows.

.

Oh look, he played Peach during a previous aftershow: http://www.princevault.co...ch_1995-am . Sexy M.f.: http://www.princevault.co...ch_1995-am . Race and Dark: http://www.princevault.co...ch_1995-am . Race and Dark: http://www.princevault.co...ch_1995-am .

duped

[Edited 2/8/18 6:10am]

Quincy Jones is still resentful over the fact that Michael Jackson was able to prosper without him

Michael Jackson ♕‏ @MJJLegion 2h2 hours ago
In response to the claims that Michael ‘stole’ music: 1) The writers of ‘State Of Independence’ said Quincy told them HE and MJ were inspired by their album - and the songs still sound nothing alike. Quincy is desperately clutching at straws to discredit Michael.

Link to original article

http://teamrock.com/news/2016-07-20/jon-anderson-on-how-vangelis-album-inspired-thriller

So how did Michael steal when it was acknowledged by the both of them that they were inspired by the riff and made it known the artists it came from?

stole
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

Stevie Wonder acknowledged that Earth, Wind, & Fire's Shining Star inspired I Wish

Clark Sisters You Brought the Sunshine was inspired by Stevie Wonder's Master Baster

Madonna's Material Girl used the Jackson's bassline from Can You Feel It?

Michael Jackson #1 hits
Ben: written by Don Black and composed by Walter Scharf
Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough: Written and composed by Michael Jackson
Rock With You: written by English songwriter Rod Temperton
Billie Jean: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Beat It: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Say Say Say: written and composed by Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson
I Just Can't Stop Loving You: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Bad: written and composed by Michael Jackson
The Way You Make Me Feel: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Man in the Mirror: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Dirty Diana: written and composed by Michael Jackson
Black or White: written and composed by Michael Jackson
You Are Not Alone: written and composed by R. Kelly

Michael Jackson ♕‏ @MJJLegion
Finally, the claim that Michael was ‘greedy’ with song writing credits is absurd. His name appears only on the songs he actually wrote - he did not, unlike some singers, simply slap his name as a co-writer on every song on his albums after doing the bare minimum. So, enough.

As you can see MJ composed the majority of his #1 hits not only that but his songwriting and producing helped him win Grammys for Record of the Year, Song of the Year, & Album of the Year.

MJ's Home Demos before Quincy's input

Even before his remarkable solo career Michael written/co-written & produced with no Quincy's input.

"Blues Away" was the first published song written by lead singer Michael Jackson

The most successful of the Jacksons' recordings for Epic, "Shake Your Body" (originally demoed as "Shake a Body") was produced by the Jackson brothers, written by Randy and Michael, and featured Michael on lead vocals.

"This Place Hotel" (originally named "Heartbreak Hotel") was a hit recording by The Jacksons released in 1980. Written and composed by Michael, the song would precede Jackson's own hit, "Billie Jean", in its insecurity-plagued tale of confusion. While his brothers did not sing background vocals, they were credited with playing percussion on the album while brother Tito contributed a guitar solo.

His creative genius led him to be inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame back in 2002


Michael Jackson's remarkable 30-year career scaled unparalleled musical, commercial and critical heights. His myriad achievements included being responsible for the best-selling album of all time, pioneering the music-video medium, and virtually redefining the concept of the modern pop star. As a songwriter, he penned more than 150 songs, with more than 20 reaching multi-million performance status on American radio and television.

Michael Jackson spent four decades as a songwriter, performer, recording artist and public figure, and will be remembered as a consistent musical innovator and stylistic trendsetter.
Michael Jackson | Songwriters Hall of Fame

and He went on to create two highly important and successful albums in the 90's after Quincy Jones. So while Quincy contributed to Michael' legacy he wasn't responsible for it.

BartVanHemelen said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Let's not forget that had it not been for those older artists, Prince wouldn't have had shit to play in the 90s when he disavowed his WB catalog until his contract was up and he only played those artists songs; the aftershow in Belgium is a good example of that.

.

What nonsense.

Bart, go get bent. You know exactly what I meant. How hard does your dick get when you si and link a half dozen things to try and prove someone wrong, and then find out you're just a nitpicky little man?

Prince purposely did not play "Prince" music during those later slave years. But good for you that you pulled out some songs from The Hits and a Batman track. Brah-vo.

purple05 said:

thesoulbrother said:

About ten years ago I was talking to a radio veteran who worked closely with Michael. He told me then that Michael had stolen several of his hit songs and basically received credit for other people's work. I didn't want to believe it. Hmmm...

Who is this person? Where are they getting it from? He probably heard it from Quincy. The only songs where the credits are funny are DSTYGE- Greg wrote a C section which is why Quincy says 10%. But outside of that the demo can be heard online Stranger in Moscow- No proper demo has been released but brad forget his last name, comes up with more he help contribute to that song each time he tells the story Speed Demon- It was a horn section that apparently Jerry Hay didn’t get credited for but he was compensated. Outside of that where were people left off credits? There are some cases where on Invincible and Dangerous(teddy stuff) where he probably received writing credit as an exchange for him recording the songs. Moreso on Invincible than Dangerous. But where are these hits that he ‘stole’? I’m reading in another board that he helped write off the mask with Greg G but wasn’t credited. He should’ve gotten credit for you are not alone but didn’t. It works both ways. They posted this as well.

Some who worked with Michael felt that having musicians execute his ideas was a form of cheating. One musician, who worked with Michael for over 15 years and will remain unnamed, said: “The problem with Michael is that he would often have musical secretaries. He would sit down with a musician and have them play parts he had in his head. If a musician played a certain part, Michael would then say, ‘No not like that’, and then when the musician played it differently, he would say, ‘Yeah like that, like that!’ On the musician’s part, this would sometimes be classed as writing.” Another musician, who also worked with Michael for over 15 years, shares a similar view. “Sometimes what musicians would do for Michael would border on writing. Michael would sing a note to a musician, and he would play a chord, sometimes making writing decisions without getting credited for it.” Matt Forger totally disagrees with this viewpoint. “These were situations where Michael worked with different people to help him realise his ideas; sometimes the people working with him contributed ideas as well,” he said. “It would have to be a case-by-case evaluation. I worked on many songs that Michael created from scratch. Others may have opinions of their own, but other people were not responsible for writing his hit songs. They may have played a part, but it was usually in support of him.” Bill Bottrell is also in Michael’s corner. “Michael was better than most at knowing the difference between writing and everything else that goes on,” he said. “We split our compositions clearly and fairly.” After the creation of a demo Michael would then take it to the main studio, such as Westlake, where the session musicians would record a final musical track. Michael would then add his vocals. After this, it was a case of sweetening the track before the engineers (usually Bruce Swedien) mixed it.

What difference does it make who said it? I don't care of MJ stole "Mary Had a Little Lamb!" It doesn't take away from the fact that Michael Jackson was one of the baddest motherfuckers to grace the stage! It doesn't take away from his talents. And I love Quincy Jones and it doesn't diminish his truth. He spoke his mind and I respect a man who has the nerve to tell it like it is in an industry where people sugarcoat shit. Now did he go off the deep end a bit? Yeah, because some of those people aren't here to defend themselves. Nevertheless, the man kept it real in his own way and it doesn't take away from anyone's gifts.

SoulAlive said:

rogifan said:

[/b]I hate to get into this publicly, but Michael stole a lot of stuff. He stole a lot of songs. [Donna Summer’s] “State of IndependenceOriginally written by Vangelis and longtime Yes front man Jon Anderson, “State of Independence” was recorded by Donna Summer in 1982. Jones produced Summer’s version, Michael Jackson helped out on backing vocals, and the song’s central riff does sound awfully similar (albeit faster) to the iconic bass riff on Jackson’s hit single “Billie Jean.”

I really don't hear much of a similarity between "State Of Independence" and "Billie Jean".In any case,Quincy produced both songs so wouldn't that make him guilty of stealing the music? lol

Thought it was just me. As someone else later posted, I can hear more of a resemblance to Hall & Oates "I Can't Go For That" than to the Donna Summer song.

*

Q's the man, though...

thesoulbrother said:

Geesh, Quincy just going around smacking everybody.

morningsong said:

Someone on Twitter earlier said to me that Q would be nothing without MJ. I had to school them on the fact that Q was in his mid-40s (at least) when he met MJ on The Wiz set. And that his history up to that point was 100x more varied and incredible than anything MJ had been through to that point. They said, "Well I didn't know about Q until Thriller." That was the end of the conversation for me. LOL

morningsong said:

Somebody posted this on another forum

By OTW_
What I don't get is, Quincy has celebrated his greatest success with Michael and he hardly has anything nice to say about the man. Why? What did MJ do to him that made him so bitter? Is he still pressed that MJ left him or what? Here they ask him about Michael and all he can say is that MJ "stole" music and talk about his plastic surgery?

For someone supposedly trained in classical music Quincy should know better than to call this "stealing". Music history is full of borrowings and inspiration and there is a big difference between that and stealing.
I am sorry but whether MJ took that riff from this song or elsewhere State of Independence is no Billie Jean, so it is hardly "stealing"

Quincy always sounds so incredibly bitter about MJ, trying to play him down so hard. The man gave Q his biggest success ever and he doesn't have a nice word to say about him? They ask him about MJ and all he can come up with is that he is a "thief"? Isn't really there any nice memories that Quincy could share about MJ?
Something about Michael's talent, Michael's personality, something that just doesn't ooze bitterness? Does he ever acknowledge Michael's genius? You know songs like Billie Jean, WBSS, Beat It, DSTYGE, WDAN, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana etc etc. did not write themselves. MJ wrote those songs. I noticed that Quincy only ever praises songs that weren't written by MJ but by outside songwriters. He loves to go on about Man in the Mirror being MJ's best song ever. That may be his genuine opinion (and I don't deny it is a great song, though I don't think it is greater than Billie Jean or WBSS or WDAN), but at this point I start to suspect he is jealous of Michael's creativity and deliberately plays it down. And he deliberately talks up the songs of outside songwriters as if those made Michael Jackson. I wonder if that's because he brought in several of those outside songwriters, so by playing those songs up can make him feel that HE made Michael Jackson? Is that it?

Because when it comes to Michael's own songs he always plays them down.

And MJ never said a bad word about this guy. Think about that!

Originally posted on Lipstickalley

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqe7sm

He's got called out on being a thief himself on soul train, I wonder why he didn't mention this.

around 23:30

thesoulbrother said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Goddess4Real said:

purple05 said:

I just woke up to all my moonwalker friends wishing death and disrespecting the fuck out of Quincy. I may not agree with everything he's saying but I can not do that much! Man they do too much.

purple05 said:

thesoulbrother said:

What difference does it make who said it? I don't care of MJ stole "Mary Had a Little Lamb!" It doesn't take away from the fact that Michael Jackson was one of the baddest motherfuckers to grace the stage! It doesn't take away from his talents. And I love Quincy Jones and it doesn't diminish his truth. He spoke his mind and I respect a man who has the nerve to tell it like it is in an industry where people sugarcoat shit. Now did he go off the deep end a bit? Yeah, because some of those people aren't here to defend themselves. Nevertheless, the man kept it real in his own way and it doesn't take away from anyone's gifts.

It does make a difference who said it because everyone isn’t credible. Whether you share that or not is up to you.. Also I don’t think Quincy isn’t telling ‘his truth’. He telling his version of other people’s ‘truth’ and in the case of MJ it’s exaggerated. Quincy was hush when he was asked about his ‘truth’. To make it seem like MJ was just stealing other artist work is a diss to his legacy. Also there are collaboraters of MJs who say different.

Chief... I am not about to get on a message board and name drop! That's no secret that MJ borrowed, took, stole, or however the hell you wanna call it from other musicians! Regardless to what the man did, it DOES NOT diminish Michael Jackson's talents! It doesn't! Quincy Jones can say that Michael farted in his dinner and pissed on his leg but that ain't gonna take anything away from the fact that Off the Wall is a masterpiece. It won't take away from the fact that Michael Jackson is THE only entertainer that could make the hardest gangbanger sit in the front row and scream like a bitch! Trust me... Michael Jackson's legacy is safe and secure and will be for many years to come.

thesoulbrother said: