Mariah Carey must be killed!

LaVisHh said:

She certainly sucks total ass, but they are ALL like that!!!

ALL OF THEM SUCK!!!

teller said:

Must kill Mariah... and all other R&B yodelers!!!

Not sure about the whining thing... but there is a lot shit in the charts nowadays, whatever the genre. Spikey-haired clean-cut wannabe rockers, assembly-line manufactured dumb pop shit, cheesy just-add-water electronic crap, bling-bling bullshit making a mockery of real hiphop... charts are shit. They've always been shit. The R&B whining you describe is no worse than any of the pop teeny bopper acts trying to do their dull ass ballads and hamming it up.

However I certainly wouldn't say "most modern R&B singers" are like that... don't judge the genre based on the crap in the top 10. There's plenty of quality new R&B / soul out there.

Ice you'd probably say that Stevie Wonder sings too many notes in his vocals, or that Marvin Gaye should be shouting rock tunes instead of soulful ballads...

ian said:

No, no, no... I even mentioned Marvin Gaye in the topic as someone who is great. I dig Stevie Wonder as well, but none of these new guys are even qualified to wipe the sweat from the nuts of Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder.

DigitalLisa said:

I've never heard of Kirk Colbain, so I'll assume you're referring to Kurt Cobain. Good point, but at least what he was doing was unique.



Sade always comes through clear as a bell, though...and with a minimum of caterwauling.

It has to do with the gospel and blues roots of R&B. It's a particular aesthetic that draws its origins from West African vocal styles.

If you've ever heard "world music" by folks like Salif Keita, Fela Kuti, Youssou Ndour, etc. a lot of their singing could be dismissed as "nasal whining." (It's not limited to African music either, as much of Indian and Asian vocal styles follow the same pattern.)

As far as the infusions of polyphonic, multisyllabic vocals that extend words, etc., again this is a gospel honed tradition in the black church that has the same origins. It's the improvisational element that is also found in jazz--take a straightforward song and add a different energy, twist it, add notes, etc. Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" offers one of the best examples of how a straightforward show tune is transformed in this way.

Funny when jazz was younger, many classicists dismissed it as vulgar and bastardized versions of classical musical style. Now, much of R&B's "whining" is parodied in comedy skits for doing much the same. But people steeped in the tradition recognize it for what it is.

IceNine said:

that makes 3 for the Mariah-must-die crowd. who's with us???

sorry nupowr...
I have loads of cd's from every continent and all the litle countries on the side; an not one of thos exotic records, singing styles whatever, get on my nerves as the pretentious scaling from many of the current r&b singers.

their songs are like trucks starting on the highway and due to drunken driving, just slalom accross the road, killing innocent people and ending in a huge apocalypse (the high pitch dolphin note, or the "rumbling of an earthquake" low)

what bothers me is the "style over substance" trend that has grown to monumental proportions in music today. i wouldn't want to just pick on r&b, because it is pervasive throughout many genres of music today.

what happens is that singers have certain vocal effects that they can convey emotions, a lilt here, a moan there, to accent and emphasize the emotion context of the song. but, what has happened is rather that effectively build to a point and use these stylistic devices, they moan everything, or they whine everything so any effect is lost, and it becomes a parody of itself.

when i listen to christina aguillera, mariah carey, etc. they are truely physically gifted vocalists, but they have to try to incorporate every device into every song, and so it just ends up sounding stupid.

it reminds me of guitarists like al dimeola or yngwie malmsteen, they are physically gifted musicians who musically masturbate, and say nothing.

they all graduated from the Keith Sweat School of Musical Whinery...?

Today's "whining" style is really a watered down version of Keith Sweat, who was a watered down version of Steve Arrington with Slave. That combined with Aaron Hall who was a watered down Charlie Wilson. I won't call Charlie a watered down Stevie Wonder but that seems to be where his style came from. No doubt Steve Arrington was a big time "whiner" But that was Steve's style of singing and it suited him and the songs well. But see back in the day most people had their own styles so it was cool. Most groups had a their own "sound" not only in their vocals but in their music as well. When you heard a Earth, Wind and Fire record for the first time, you knew it was EWF. Brass Construction sounded like BC. The Gap Band, Gap Band. Slave, Slave and so on. The only thing that could throw you off was if one of these acts produced a new up and coming group or singer. Then that act would take on their sound as well. But over all this is why I loved the music of the late 70's and Early 80's so much. You had all these talented cats writing, producing and performing their own shit. All coming up with something their very own. I agree most of these so-called R&B singers sound the same or come from the same tree. But truthfully I think it's worse with today's female singers. Most do the "If I can't hold a note I'll change pitch 2 or 3 times" bailout. SWV made a living out of this. Mary J too, although she can actually sing. Give me the sweet sounds of Patrice Rushen, Debra Laws, Stephanie Mills over this shit any day.

IceNine said:

Preach on Ice, you my boy fo sho.

Get a clue muthafuckas, go to a Prince concert and see what showmanship really is, Throw on some Marvin or Stevie and find something interesting to sing or write about instead of feelin on some girls booty or something like that.

intha916 said:

My thoughts exactly on the original sound of the bands back in the day. When you would hear a new song on the radio you could place who was the band doing it because everyone developed an own sound and style and just improved on it and took it to the different places to fit each album.

zobilamouche said:

My discussion had nothing to do with what got on your nerves. It has to do with a singing style and vocal aesthetic that is not prominent among Euro and Euro american musical styles.

African, Arab, and Indian music don't even use the same musical scale, allowing for a different combination of notes and chords that would sound discordant to the uninitiated ear.

Lata Mangeshkar, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, as well as the Afropop artists I named earlier, all employ a vocal style that is highly nasal and reach pitches that can be quite piercing.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to put Mariah in the company of Nusrat or Salif or Youssou (Rachelle Ferrell and Patti Labelle come to mind as vocalists who employ polyphonic singing and scatting styles reminiscent of the best gospel & jazz singers)... just wanted to put that style of singing in a more general context, where I seldom see it discussed.

without R&B Music there would be no music.I can't believe a Racist&Loaded Post as such got to last this long.how dare you&what nerve you have? Ask Elvis,Pat Boone,Tom Jones,Rod Stewart,etc... about the Importance of the R&B Voice&it's Roots??Mariah Carey Can Sing/Sang Period.don't hate on the Range or Her gift.ask Joe Cocker where He got His Game from? Haters need to Drop there Hoods&Learn something before they Post Such Loaded Racist Crap.why do Most Modern White Rock Acts Still Rip off the Blues or Rap/Metal?? Answer that for Me?

@ mistermaxxx: I count the days...

mistermaxxx said:

What are you even talking about???

There is nothing racist about this post in any way.

mistermaxxx said:

how very reactionary of you...

mistermaxxx said:

Can you not recognize a difference between racism and disliking something because it is not appealing to you? While I love Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and those type of cats, I cannot stand any of these whiny guys that they pass off as R&B today. This is not racism, it is taste.

I hate having to spell things out.

Thank the Lord for intha916, Mistermaxxx, and NuPwrSoul for schooling the board. It would be so easy to go off. If peeps would specifically list who they don't like and why or what they've heard that irked them so, maybe I can understand. If it's personal preference, that's one thing, but to discredit a genre because your ears aren't trained to adapt to a style of singing is something else. Grant it, originality may be lacking, but that can be said for all the genres like rock, not just R&B. I'd pick the music my parent's listened to when I was young child over most of what is being played on the radio today. At the same time, there are some gems in R&B as well who may not be vocally powerful but lyrically stronger and projects positive messages.

funkyslsistah said:

exactly. and that was discussed during the course of this thread.

funkyslsistah said:

Going back to the beginning of this thread, I don't think it was ever meant to attack R&B as a whole, or attack any specific culture.

Many of the people posting on this thread seem to enjoy R&B. I think alot of todays R&B whiners are doing a discredit to an otherwise great form of music.

Tom said:

Precisely!

I even mentioned Marvin Gaye, Al Green and James Brown in the topic post and said that they were great. I love the older R&B guys, but the new guys mainly suck total ass.

It is funny that someone will ALWAYS try to call you racist if you dislike anything that is done by blacks. I cannot stand modern R&B but that does not make me a racist, it makes me someone who hates the tuneless fucking whining of modern R&B.

To balance this out a bit for those who cry racism every single time you turn around, I think that the state of modern rock music is pathetic as well. Corporate music sucks ass and modern rock is largely filled with a bunch of shitty bands who all try to sound just like each other and I cannot stand a goddamned one of them.

I guess I am a racist who hates whites too.

Tom said:

How would you feel if you saw that many Alternative Posers are doing a Disservice to a Great form of music? or Metal Acts were? or COuntry? terms we live by in a society are code words&one must think before they are suspected of wearing a "Hood" to issues at hand.

mistermaxxx said:

MANY fucking corporate whores are totally ruining rock music as we speak... modern rock mostly sucks and I cannot listen to it. Does this make me a racist against whites?

Could you give some examples of the "R&B whiners" you're talking about, please?

lameless said:

I don't know their names... I only know that I hate them when I hear them... and I can say that just about every single one that I hear sounds exactly like all the others.

IceNine said:

Mistermaxx isn't going to like this, but R Kelly.He's one.