I want to start a Janet Jackson appreciation thread because her single "Together Again" was released 20 years ago today, on December 2, 1997. I was obsessed with this song in 1997/1998, so much so that I went to Target and purchased my first album ever, The Velvet Rope. Her vocals are stunning on "Together Again"...I think it's one of her best tracks vocally.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/...277625283/

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I also attended her State of the World tour concert in Philadelphia last month (November 13), and will write more about that tomorrow.

Okay I will bite, I knew of her since the Rhythm Nation days, but only really got into ehr alst year. I love Together Again, but Go Deep is my favourite off that album.

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Pretty much the four albums Control to Velvet Rope are her best and I know it sounds cliche, but Janet is my favoruite. My favourite songs are Diamonds and Runaway which are not on any of the four albums. I love 99% of her stuff though.

It's truly a beautiful song, I love the remixes to it as well, so much that it became the first CD single I purchased. Velvet rope was not my first janet album (I already had janet. and DOAD that I bought within a year of VR being released), but it is truly her most timeless.

She is truly one of the best and a big inspiration to me.

wonder505 said:

Janet has cute vocals but i dont consider it stunning. If she were anyone else i dont believe that person would be praised as such but Janet gets a pass. I would give her props for keeping in tune while performing such complicated dance moves for two hours. I attended the SOTW and loved every minute of it except for the ballads because I could not not hear her. With that said, my fav albums, one that i really play over and over are Rhythmn Nation and All for You. I felt both albums were perfection!

That's the thing about Janet; while she has a great catalogue and was truly a world-class dancer at her best ('choreographer's puppet' is a totally worthless term when nobody wants to apply it to ballerinas no matter how skilled the latter are), it seems people like Madonna and/or Britney Spears are targets for the 'talentless vocalists today or 'what they did to the music industry'.

But you'd have no choice but to include Janet and Paula Abdul along with Madonna for opening the doors to the likes of Britney Spears, JLO and now the Selena Gomezes if we're going to be real about it.

My favorite JJ albums are Rhythm Nation, Janet, and The Velvet Rope. All great.

wonder505 said:

morningsong said:

My favs Control, RN 1814 and The Velvet Rope......my all-time fav song/video is The Pleasure Principle (1986) its everything

Ralph Carter

I have nothing personally against Janet Jackson, who seems like a nice person, and God knows how she (relatively) kept her head straight in that family -- I also liked her on Diff'rent Strokes -- so she's all right with me as a person.

However...

I would actually "blame" her success, in small part, for the decline of the American music industry. In my view, Janet Jackson is a fairly no-talent singer/musician who rode her family coat-tails and big-budget MTV videos to huge celebrity. She basically inspired the boy-bands of the late-90s and today's drones of talentless minions lip-synching to "music" entirely created by corporate songwriters and trendy producers.

Of course, small-talent pretty faces, all-style-no-substance celebrities in music have been around forever -- she didn't start it -- but the model she created for how to do it via image and corporate songwriting and 'sexing yourself up' (for women) is basically the model followed by every low-talent ambitious entertainer since.

Again, I don't blame her personally and I wish her well. But to me she's actually the symbol for all that is wrong in American 'music' and entertainment. So, no appreciation.

Rebbie, Kim Fields, Al B. Sure!, David Damas, Gene Anthony Ray

ThePanther said:

She basically inspired the boy-bands of the late-90s

That was more New Edition than Janet. Maurice Starr, who was the producer on NE's debut album and NE were on his label Streetwise, was fired by the group. Then he discovered New Kids On The Block and got them a deal with Columbia Records. Their first album didn't do anything much, but then their 2nd Hangin' Tough blew up. After the New Kids, there were a bunch of guy singing groups, some with a more teen audience and others with a young adult audience. Without NE, those other groups probably would not have happened. Boyz II Men named themselves after a New Edition song and were discovered by Michael Bivins of the group. Bobby Brown came from NE and he was the most successful New Jack Swing related act. NE is one of the first acts (along with the Force MDs) to combine singing & rapping, which is what you have today with Nelly and singers having rap breaks instead of an instrumental break in their songs. TLC is basically a female version of Bell Biv DeVoe, and BBD is also from NE. TLC was huge in the 1990s. NE doesn't get the credit really, and the success of their biopic earlier this year was a big surprise to the industry.

ThePanther said:

wonder505 said:

A little harsh. I feel without the MTV videos her songs are still very good songs. I think what your referring to is her making dance with tons of dancers on stage a big part of her live act. What we’re left with is a bunch of Janet copycats with crap songs, and lip synching to cds but with killer dance moves.

Well, she herself was basically copying her brother, but the difference being that he was actually extremely talented musically/vocally.

Low-talent pretty-faces built by star-making companies have been around since at least the 50s (if not earlier), but the Janet Jackson model is different -- it's more like, "control my own career by spending huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos". A lot of people have done that since.

ThePanther said:

wonder505 said:

A little harsh. I feel without the MTV videos her songs are still very good songs. I think what your referring to is her making dance with tons of dancers on stage a big part of her live act. What we’re left with is a bunch of Janet copycats with crap songs, and lip synching to cds but with killer dance moves.

Well, she herself was basically copying her brother, but the difference being that he was actually extremely talented musically/vocally.

Low-talent pretty-faces built by star-making companies have been around since at least the 50s (if not earlier), but the Janet Jackson model is different -- it's more like, "control my own career by spending huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos". A lot of people have done that since.

Janet's career is due to her teaming with Jam & Lewis who produced and wrote Control and Rhythm Nation.

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She also has amazing stage presence and pesonality which comes across in her videos, singing and ive perofrmance.

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She can carry a tune which nowadays is more than most, but her singing isn't what drover her stardom.

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Plus she co-wrote must of the stuff with Jam & lewis.

I was so glad Janet attended Oprah's 2005 LEGENDS weekend...That was a once in a Lifetime gathering featuring some of the most Powerful & Influential Black Women..

The Luncheon Group-photo is still breathtaking...Mighty Oprah is a bad, bad Woman...

ThePanther said:

ThePanther said:

wonder505 said:

A little harsh. I feel without the MTV videos her songs are still very good songs. I think what your referring to is her making dance with tons of dancers on stage a big part of her live act. What we’re left with is a bunch of Janet copycats with crap songs, and lip synching to cds but with killer dance moves.

Well, she herself was basically copying her brother, but the difference being that he was actually extremely talented musically/vocally.

Low-talent pretty-faces built by star-making companies have been around since at least the 50s (if not earlier), but the Janet Jackson model is different -- it's more like, "control my own career by spending huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos". A lot of people have done that since.

You have no choice but to include Madonna as one of the people who brought the decline of the music industry, as she also spent huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos.

The culmination of Madonna, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul resulted in a Britney Spears (who was much younger than any of the three but should be criticized from a musical standpoint mostly)

But MTV perhaps is the biggest driving force to explain why the music industry is what it is today.

nextedition said:

ThePanther said:

Well, she herself was basically copying her brother, but the difference being that he was actually extremely talented musically/vocally.

Low-talent pretty-faces built by star-making companies have been around since at least the 50s (if not earlier), but the Janet Jackson model is different -- it's more like, "control my own career by spending huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos". A lot of people have done that since.

I dont know why Janet gets criticize so much for this while lots of artist (madonna, justin timberlake to name a few) do the same. I never hear justin timberlake getting critisized for buying the hot producer of the moment

I dont care for Justin Timberlake but he does have a good live singing voice and he plays an instrument. But I dont watch his shows so if he lip synchs then I stand corrected.

What exactly is the difference in Janet & Madonna having dancers onstage and 1970s rock acts with pyro & giant pigs, wearing a dress & a fox head, monsters, light show, etc.? Like Genesis, Alice Cooper, KISS, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, etc. Before that there was Screamin' Jay Hawkins and his coffin and James Brown or The Temptations dancing onstage. Some jazz swing bands also had dancers onstage. Jazz was originally dance music. So was R&B & rock n roll. Music videos also existed long before MTV, when they were called soundies & scopitones. You can even say movie musicals like Singin' In The Rain were kinda music videos. So nothing new there.

ThePanther said:

wonder505 said:

A little harsh. I feel without the MTV videos her songs are still very good songs. I think what your referring to is her making dance with tons of dancers on stage a big part of her live act. What we’re left with is a bunch of Janet copycats with crap songs, and lip synching to cds but with killer dance moves.

Well, she herself was basically copying her brother, but the difference being that he was actually extremely talented musically/vocally.

Low-talent pretty-faces built by star-making companies have been around since at least the 50s (if not earlier), but the Janet Jackson model is different -- it's more like, "control my own career by spending huge amounts of money on songwriters and videos". A lot of people have done that since.

These kinds of comments makes me so sad

MickyDolenz said:

What exactly is the difference in Janet & Madonna having dancers onstage and 1970s rock acts with pyro & giant pigs, wearing a dress & a fox head, monsters, light show, etc.? Like Genesis, Alice Cooper, KISS, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, etc. Before that there was Screamin' Jay Hawkins and his coffin and James Brown or The Temptations dancing onstage. Some jazz swing bands also had dancers onstage. Jazz was originally dance music. So was R&B & rock n roll. Music videos also existed long before MTV, when they were called soundies & scopitones. You can even say movie musicals like Singin' In The Rain were kinda music videos. So nothing new there.

Did any of those examples lip synch a good part of their careers?

wonder505 said:

MickyDolenz said:

What exactly is the difference in Janet & Madonna having dancers onstage and 1970s rock acts with pyro & giant pigs, wearing a dress & a fox head, monsters, light show, etc.? Like Genesis, Alice Cooper, KISS, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, etc. Before that there was Screamin' Jay Hawkins and his coffin and James Brown or The Temptations dancing onstage. Some jazz swing bands also had dancers onstage. Jazz was originally dance music. So was R&B & rock n roll. Music videos also existed long before MTV, when they were called soundies & scopitones. You can even say movie musicals like Singin' In The Rain were kinda music videos. So nothing new there.

Did any of those examples lip synch a good part of their careers?

According to the New York Times review of a concert many feel is one of the most influential ever, “Madonna has become so perfectionistic, and so athletic in her dancing, that she would clearly rather lip-sync than risk a wrong note...”

http://people.com/celebri...ars-later/

There's also this article from 2004,

"Since Madonna danced through the majority of songs on her Re-Invention tour, which bypassed San Diego, Everett’s comments don’t exactly bolster the case for her singing live. (For the record, James Brown, Tina Turner and many other gifted artists are living proof that you can simultaneously sing and dance – if you’re talented enough).
It’s no secret that Madonna has lip-synced for years, most notoriously on her Blonde Ambition tour of 1990, which found her talented six-man band miming at least some of its parts as well."

https://allaboutmadonna.c...estion.php

Everbody now is trying to blame Britney Spears for the downfall of the music industry when Madonna, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul all laid the foundation to do what she did as a performer/recording artist.

By the way, Cher started the use of autotune in the American music industry. So you can go ahead and add Cher to that list to.

[Edited 12/7/17 7:51am]

God Al B Sure was fine jesus

mnbvc said:

wonder505 said:

Did any of those examples lip synch a good part of their careers?

According to the New York Times review of a concert many feel is one of the most influential ever, “Madonna has become so perfectionistic, and so athletic in her dancing, that she would clearly rather lip-sync than risk a wrong note...”

http://people.com/celebri...ars-later/

There's also this article from 2004,

"Since Madonna danced through the majority of songs on her Re-Invention tour, which bypassed San Diego, Everett’s comments don’t exactly bolster the case for her singing live. (For the record, James Brown, Tina Turner and many other gifted artists are living proof that you can simultaneously sing and dance – if you’re talented enough).
It’s no secret that Madonna has lip-synced for years, most notoriously on her Blonde Ambition tour of 1990, which found her talented six-man band miming at least some of its parts as well."

https://allaboutmadonna.c...estion.php

Everbody now is trying to blame Britney Spears for the downfall of the music industry when Madonna, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul all laid the foundation to do what she did as a performer/recording artist.

By the way, Cher started the use of autotune in the American music industry. So you can go ahead and add Cher to that list to.

[Edited 12/7/17 7:51am]

Damn, I guess I'll add Madonna to the list.

wonder505 said:

Did any of those examples lip synch a good part of their careers?

Lip syncing concerts existed before Milli Vanilli too. On some of those Dick Clark style package tours of the 1950s and 1960s, and acts performing at sock hops, either lip lynced or sang over a record playing. Because generally it was too expensive to carry bands around for several doo wop & vocal groups, who basically sang 2 or 3 songs each. Same for 1970s disco and 1980s dance groups who performed in clubs. Many of these acts didn't dance either, it was more a financial reason to do so.

Part of the reason the popularity of bands started to die out in the late 1970s (at least with R&B) is because of disco & the rise of the DJ. It was cheaper for clubs to hire a DJ to play records than to hire a band, who had several members, especially horn bands. Then hip hop in the beginning had a DJ to mix & scratch records for MCs to rap over. So they didn't really need a band either. Some rap did have session musicians on the records, like Kurtis Blow & Whodini. So did Sugarhill Records, but they generally replayed music from other records. Then when samplers came out, that kinda eliminated the need to paying session musicians. Originally, people just sampled stuff without permission, until laws were created around 1990. An album like Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys would be too expensive to make if it came out after samples had to be cleared. Today there's DJs like Skrillex who draw huge crowds and he just push buttons mostly. Maybe sunth dance acts like Erasure & Pet Shop Boys contributed to not really needing a traditional band either. Just a guy with a computer and/or pre-programmed keyboard parts.

wonder505 said:

mnbvc said:

According to the New York Times review of a concert many feel is one of the most influential ever, “Madonna has become so perfectionistic, and so athletic in her dancing, that she would clearly rather lip-sync than risk a wrong note...”

http://people.com/celebri...ars-later/

There's also this article from 2004,

"Since Madonna danced through the majority of songs on her Re-Invention tour, which bypassed San Diego, Everett’s comments don’t exactly bolster the case for her singing live. (For the record, James Brown, Tina Turner and many other gifted artists are living proof that you can simultaneously sing and dance – if you’re talented enough).
It’s no secret that Madonna has lip-synced for years, most notoriously on her Blonde Ambition tour of 1990, which found her talented six-man band miming at least some of its parts as well."

https://allaboutmadonna.c...estion.php

Everbody now is trying to blame Britney Spears for the downfall of the music industry when Madonna, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul all laid the foundation to do what she did as a performer/recording artist.

By the way, Cher started the use of autotune in the American music industry. So you can go ahead and add Cher to that list to.

[Edited 12/7/17 7:51am]

Damn, I guess I'll add Madonna to the list.

Might as well add Cher. After all, the use of autotune in the music industry in America started with her.

MickyDolenz said:

What exactly is the difference in Janet & Madonna having dancers onstage and 1970s rock acts with pyro & giant pigs, wearing a dress & a fox head, monsters, light show, etc.? Like Genesis, Alice Cooper, KISS, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, etc. Before that there was Screamin' Jay Hawkins and his coffin and James Brown or The Temptations dancing onstage. Some jazz swing bands also had dancers onstage. Jazz was originally dance music. So was R&B & rock n roll. Music videos also existed long before MTV, when they were called soundies & scopitones. You can even say movie musicals like Singin' In The Rain were kinda music videos. So nothing new there.

because they are women who became not only hugely successful but very influencial, so of course they will be discredited. they gets criticized for dancing? how dare they actually entertain their fans.

It's not fair to compare her to selena gomez selena can't even dance like janet, that kid has no soul.