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Printabledid any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing  | |
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SoulAlive said: did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing No too young but I can only imagine lol | |
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A friend of mine who was around for the J5 era, the Jacksons, Off The Wall, Thriller.... all of it said when the J5 went national with I Want You Back and were on the Ed Sullivan show, all the black kids in his neighborhood all felt like they had a stake in the group. "Something in the air changed" was his words
He said the Thriller period was unreal. He was everywhere but still elusive. The videos were shown on TV, everybody was talking about the Motown 25 performance and he had 7 top 10 singles in '83 before the Thriller single was out yet Michael wasn't out doing loads of interviews, not touring, and wasn't on shows like the Tonight Show or Soul Train or American Bandstand.
He was at the Victory tour and said the....demographic in the audience was a stark difference from the Destiny and Triumph tours "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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wow, 9 pages of replies!!! I wasn't expecting a (mostly positive) discussion on this. And I'm certainly not bashing MJ as someone here suggested I was. Like I said, I saw a comment from a random person asking was MJ a little overrated - this was years ago, but it popped into my head recently and I thought it would be juicy discussion material. |
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NorthC said: But there is one artist that you hear everywhere in the world. And that's Bob Marley. im glad I found an article to back up the absurdity of your statement. While Bob is very popular because he transcends music. MJ is up there as well. If not more famous. To be very clear.... I'm not comparing the volume of sales but the countries in which they appear Bob Marley America US – 41,935,000 Canada – 4,790,000 Argentina – N/A Brazil – N/A Mexico – N/A Asia – N/A Japan – N/A Oceania Australia – 2,485,000 New Zealand – 1,075,000 Europe – 51,810,000 UK – 9,880,000 France – 10,960,000 Germany – 7,790,000 Italy – 5,020,000 Spain – 2,350,000 Sweden – 1,150,000 Netherland – 2,205,000 Switzerland – 1,235,000 Austria – 805,000 Finland – 380,000 World – 120,150,000 America US – 83,200,000 Canada – 8,250,000 Argentina – 1,785,000 Brazil – 5,500,000 Mexico – 4,500,000 Asia – 25,690,000 Japan – 10,100,000 Oceania Australia – 5,360,000 New Zealand – 1,000,000 Europe – 90,730,000 UK – 26,275,000 France – 14,390,000 Germany – 13,750,000 Italy – 6,130,000 Spain – 4,115,000 Sweden – 1,975,000 Netherland – 3,930,000 Switzerland – 1,865,000 Austria – 1,250,000 Finland – 485,000 World – 235,440,000 | |
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^ I don't understand this post. A long list of Bob Marley's record sales is supposed to prove that saying you see and hear him everywhere in the world is absurd?
[Edited 11/22/17 8:30am] [Edited 11/22/17 8:35am] | |
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the short answer is, no, his fame was not overrated (artistry wasn't either but that's more subjective) and anyone who was alive and in the US at the time could vouch for this fact. | |
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All True.
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SoulAlive said: did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing I had thriller video view master slides passed down to me before bad era. I also apparently had sparkly gloves when not old enough to remember | |
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NorthC said: ^ I don't understand this post. A long list of Bob Marley's record sales is supposed to prove that saying you see and hear him everywhere in the world is absurd? [Edited 11/22/17 8:30am] [Edited 11/22/17 8:35am] Im not discounting the fact that he's popular nor am I talking about sales numbers. I'm only posting that to show the countries the artist albums were purchased. Isn't it safe to assume that if someone is more known than another then music purchases(no matter the amount) should show up in the same or more areas? Now if we are referring to Bob Marleys image as a cultural icon, that's totally different. | |
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+1
did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing
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Those sales figures posted several posts above indicate that Michael Jackson was about twice as popular as Bob Marley. | |
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Popularity is more than record sales. Plenty of people in the world don't have enough money to buy records. In Africa, Latin America and Asia there is a huge black market; you can buy anything on the streets including bootleg cassettes and later CDs for prices local people can afford. And those are the places where you'll hear Bob Marley coming out of the speakers. Not only him of course, but I remember walking down the streets in Nairobi and thinking, oh no, not Three Little Birds again.  | |
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It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated. The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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novabrkr said: Those sales figures posted several posts above indicate that Michael Jackson was about twice as popular as Bob Marley. Exactly! That's all I'm saying. Both are hugely popular though | |
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NorthC said: Popularity is more than record sales. Plenty of people in the world don't have enough money to buy records. In Africa, Latin America and Asia there is a huge black market; you can buy anything on the streets including bootleg cassettes and later CDs for prices local people can afford. And those are the places where you'll hear Bob Marley coming out of the speakers. Not only him of course, but I remember walking down the streets in Nairobi and thinking, oh no, not Three Little Birds again. America, UK and Japan are the biggest markets. In places like India, China and Africa there are huge black markets but MJ is still huge in those places. I'm not saying Bob Marley isn't huge. But you're trying to downplay MJ like he isn't one of the most popular figures ever. China Brazil @1:40 Africa India | |
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bonatoc said: It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated. How is Prince underrated? It's widely accepted that Prince is one of the most talented musicians EVER. Now many don't care for his music but that's personal taste. Lots of younger people don't know about Prince because he removed all of his music, videos and performers from the internet. | |
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The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic.
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bonatoc said:
Oh you're speaking of fame. I thought you were referring to Prince's stature. I was like huh? He's widely respected. Prince was never going to be as famous as MJ. MJ as a child was very famous as well. There's no way Prince or really anyone was going to match that. Nor does it matter in the grand scheme of things either(for Prince). | |
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PeteSilas said: wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic. I don't think Elvis looked Indian at all. If anything he probably had a black distant relative from slavery. But they said they seen MJ in town. I wonder what town they were near. | |
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the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood. | |
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Interesting, never knew that | |
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PeteSilas said:
the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood. Everybody think they have Cherokee. They didn't even inhabit the area he's from. OT: I've been doing geanology research and what most people think is 'Indian' in their blood was mulattos/quadroons that called themselves Indians. Indians didn't really mix with others like that. Even in some Caribbean countries it's not Indian but multigenerationally African/European people. When the genealogy is traced, it's usually started with an African woman and European Make. In America it was taboo to mix like they did in the Caribbean. Which is why we aren't as mixed. [Edited 11/24/17 10:24am] | |
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trust me, people have done his geneology and yes he's cherokee, from two different sources i believe, you can google it if you don't believe me. it should be obvious he's indian just from looking at him though. another interesting bit of geneology was that his maternal grandmother was a jewess but for some reason, the jews I spoke to don't want him. Yet, according to their very own rules, he's jewish. People are wierd when it comes to race.
[Edited 11/24/17 10:40am] | |
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heres some pics of some of what us indians call "breeds" who were elvis' grandparents: http://www.elvis-aron-pre...alogy.html
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PeteSilas said: heres some pics of some of what us indians call "breeds" who were elvis' grandparents: http://www.elvis-aron-pre...alogy.html
Hmmm who knows but here's some more information about that subject 'As Riley started to research Morning Dove’s story, though, he says things just didn’t add up. For example, her name. Morning Dove is an English name. Riley notes that not only would the Cherokee have spoken their own language with native names, they usually had one-word names. So he doubts she was a Cherokee. More importantly, ‘Morning’ was Mansell’s mother’s first name, and ‘White’ was the name of nearby neighbors. He says these are good indicators that Mansell either renamed her or she chose an anglicized name. And Riley says there are other inconsistencies. “There were no Cherokees in south Alabama, very unlikely that William Mansell rode 900 miles [1450 kilometers] to North Carolina to get a Cherokee Indian woman when they’re all around him in south Alabama. Impossible that William Mansell ever married this Indian, two reasons: one, marrying as we see it, is not an Indian custom, and William Mansell already had a wife. She’s living in Marion County, Alabama, the same time William is living there with the Indian girl.” Riley also points out that Mansell fought with General Andrew Jackson, later president Jackson, who was well known for waging war on the Indians. One of the way soldiers like Mansell would have been compensated for their service was with land and captured Indians. Riley suggests it is more than likely that Mansell, like most European Americans of the time, viewed Native Americans as second-class citizens. “The most likely thing that happened,” he concludes, “is that Morning White Dove was a refugee from one of the Creek Indian Villages that were being destroyed in Alabama. And for whatever reason – he liked the way she looked, wanted some domestic help – he just took her and took her home.” While there is no record that William Mansell married Morning Dove, they did have four children, three of whom survived. She died at the age of 35, most likely in childbirth, delivering their daughter Morning Dizenia. Like her mother, Morning Dizenia helped nurse people in her community, and she married the town doctor. Her older brother, John, would someday become the great great grandfather of Elvis Presley.' https://en.geneanet.org/g...rises-html 'However, it is not clear if any documentary evidence has been produced that Morning Dove White was of Native American ancestry. At least one census entry for Morning Dove White’s son, John Mansell, describes him as “White”. Several other census listings of Morning’s other children list them as “White” as well. Research has shown that it is unlikely that Morning Dove White was a Cherokee, although it is possible that she had ancestry from another tribe. Background information on this can be found here.' http://ethnicelebs.com/elvis-presley | |
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PeteSilas said: trust me, people have done his geneology and yes he's cherokee, from two different sources i believe, you can google it if you don't believe me. it should be obvious he's indian just from looking at him though. another interesting bit of geneology was that his maternal grandmother was a jewess but for some reason, the jews I spoke to don't want him. Yet, according to their very own rules, he's jewish. People are wierd when it comes to race.
[Edited 11/24/17 10:40am] Read those thinks in the post above. They debunk those Cherokee and Jewish myths. Like I've said, I've done geneology and a red flag is the Cherokee claim. Most people don't have it and there's no evidence of it either. | |
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i'lll look at them closer later but i can tell you now, i know an indian when i see one and elvis is indian, also, saying a guy or a woman claimed white (you wouldn't know this) was not unusual and in fact very common for Indians in those days, that kind of confusion exists in my own family it's just called passing. women can get away with that easier than men for a lot of reasons. at any rate, his ancestors look even more indian than he does AND there were two indian ancestors not just morning dove.
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hell maybe i should pass for white, maybe it would make things easier, but no, i'm proud of what i am and would never do that. | |
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