NorthC said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm not black no, but the curl he had was similar, maybe not a jheri curl but not too different, anyway, that's not worth arguing about, the point is, he wasn't daring to grow, that was obvious. He changed his image by lightening his skin and with bad he sort of tapped into the more urban images that rap was popularizing but in my opinion, he wasn't doing anything too risky and the changes he did make, like the plastic surgery was just to help him sell more. don't get me wrong, i love mike, i love Prince, I love Elvis i love a lot of artists but they all are human and they all make big, sometimes huge mistakes. Mike did more than enough, if he'd died right after thriller he'd have done more than enough. Would have been nice to see him do some different things though but it would have been nice to see a lot of things from my favorites artists, it's their lives and careers in the end.

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

it was close enough to a jheri curl and the same style he had for thriller. i think he could have done a more spontaneous show, all that regimented crap with a zillion dancers tired after awhile to me. Maybe he was afraid to be up there by himself, i don't know, not many musicians have the courage to get up all by themselves or even be the front man. lots of musicians, most of them hide from the spotlight because that's where all the attention goes. and before you say it, yes i know he did things alone, but way too much bullshit with a bunch of professional dancers that wasn't even necessary. In fact, it hurts his case, if all those people could do what he's doing then how hard is the shit? Prince apparently tried to tell him in their meeting in vegas that he thought a stripped down show would be the way to go but people don't change, michael was doing more of the useless bells and whistles for the this is it show.

You must not be black. It wasn't close to a jerri curl AT ALL. MJ could've done alot but he did t. I think a more stripped down smaller genie would've been great for him. But then again MJ shows are known for the spectacle as well. I think a great time to do the stripped show was in 95 and then he could've went back and forth after that. Lol at you thinking MJ couldn't perform by himself. That was never a problem of his. lol y'all say some wild shit on here

PeteSilas said:

Just like PeteSilas i wish he were much more spontaneous in his live performances and music in general. Thriller as i said some time ago was a blessing but at the same time was more a curse.

To the comment above "like MJ couldn't do the same thing"...

funnily enough... MJ had gone to Prince asking for some help about what to do (at least that's how I heard it...and there were Prince comments in quotations....these umpteen years ago) to freshen up with an audience again...

Prince had suggested that MJ just do a solo bit with maybe a piano and to showcase people his wonderful voice again.


But MJ declined.


I don't think MJ felt comfortable aging either. None do. But he always wanted to have the most BOMBASTIC performance ever... Although all of us would have sat in wonder...MJ wouldn't do it.

His "superhero" appeal would have to be bombasticness for the kids.

He didn't court the stage any other way. (with slight exceptions: She's Out of My Life....and to be: Speechless)

Blues & southern soul singer Bobby Rush still wears a Jheri Curl to this day.

2045RadicalMattZ said:

To the comment above "like MJ couldn't do the same thing"...

funnily enough... MJ had gone to Prince asking for some help about what to do (at least that's how I heard it...and there were Prince comments in quotations....these umpteen years ago) to freshen up with an audience again...

Prince had suggested that MJ just do a solo bit with maybe a piano and to showcase people his wonderful voice again.


But MJ declined.


I don't think MJ felt comfortable aging either. None do. But he always wanted to have the most BOMBASTIC performance ever... Although all of us would have sat in wonder...MJ wouldn't do it.

His "superhero" appeal would have to be bombasticness for the kids.

He didn't court the stage any other way. (with slight exceptions: She's Out of My Life....and to be: Speechless)

That was his obsession and unfortunately it played against him

purple05 said:

scorp84 said:

Can't "overrate" MJ's fame. It was/is what it was/is. There's just too many variables you have to consider when even thinking about discussing something like that. People attended the shows, bought the albums, and expressed themselves for a variety of different reasons.

No matter how much more talented you think Prince is, he just wasn't MJ. It was a combination of things plus MJs other worldly charisma that put him above his peers. At his peak MJ was the shit and that can't be denied

I'm not really entertaining the "Prince vs MJ" conversations, so I don't see how my statement can be seen that way. Besides the fact that their dominance of the music landscape kinda overlapped during a period in the 80's, they weren't really in the same peer group musically, being that Mike had about 10 years on Prince as a signed artist. I said you can't "overrate" his fame, because it's something you're unable to quantify. His reach is just too deep. As much as people like to say, "The Beatles this" or "Elvis that", MJ surpassed that beyond every measure. Some people get violently angry, uncomfortable, and ignorantly choose to dismiss this fact, but race was and still is a huge factor in that. A lot of people resented the fact that this black kid, who would grow into a man, attained a "God-like" "Superhero" type of stature, to the point it that drove many-a white boy and girl to utter the words "I want to be HIM". That's that.

More B.S. Never thought I would see Prince in this category; that's what makes me sad. MJ was musical lightning in his heyday; Prince kept spinning out great songs, hit or miss, over all his years. They were both extraordinary musical artists in their prime years...and that's how they should be remembered and celebrated.

purplethunder3121 said:

i'm not black but i had a black stepdad and friends, i remember the jheri curl and all the grease. My stepdad actually made a deal with some guy to take a cat off his hands for fifty bucks so he could keep his jheri curl, i've joked many times over the years about that because he hated that cat. Anyway, Michael was the biggest, as I said, worldwide, maybe Ali is more popular, maybe but Michael was a phenomenon, not only was he phenomenal, his impact on people was phenomenal, i mentioned how the world stopped after he died, the net crashed, i still remember white people filling the city streets walking backwards as an ode to the moonwalk. and ya, there was a huge price for that fame, he spent so much time in courtrooms and in hiding that it had to kill his creativity.

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm not black no, but the curl he had was similar, maybe not a jheri curl but not too different, anyway, that's not worth arguing about, the point is, he wasn't daring to grow, that was obvious. He changed his image by lightening his skin and with bad he sort of tapped into the more urban images that rap was popularizing but in my opinion, he wasn't doing anything too risky and the changes he did make, like the plastic surgery was just to help him sell more. don't get me wrong, i love mike, i love Prince, I love Elvis i love a lot of artists but they all are human and they all make big, sometimes huge mistakes. Mike did more than enough, if he'd died right after thriller he'd have done more than enough. Would have been nice to see him do some different things though but it would have been nice to see a lot of things from my favorites artists, it's their lives and careers in the end.

Ok I see what you're saying but if you aren't black and most likely a make you probably don't understand hair. Especially not black hair. A jerri curl refers to a chemical process that was used to make the hair a lose curl. You had to keep activator in it as well. The activator was known for causing a mess. Trust if he had kept a jerri curl, MJ would've never lived that down lol Apparently his hair never grew back where he was burned so he started wearing hair pieces. I think he looked better when he wore his hair pieces short apprised to long. Some of those wigs in his later years were down right awful. I'm sure they were expensive as well. Yea I would've liked to see him experiment more but I think he cared too much about what people thought. He was afraid of rejection. He tried to grow his facial hair out and got upset because the media was saying he got facial hair implants. He should've kept it and found a new wig stylist.

2045RadicalMattZ said:

purplethunder3121 said:

More B.S. Never thought I would see Prince in this category; that's what makes me sad. MJ was musical lightning in his heyday; Prince kept spinning out great songs, hit or miss, over all his years. They were both extraordinary musical artists in their prime years...and that's how they should be remembered and celebrated.

It's coming man. ....some douche kid born in the 2000's is gonna come up and say PRINCE IS OVERRATED. ....Mark my words. I know it'll be hard not to back slap the ignorant asshole sonofabitch, but you may have to

sure but that's human nature, in the herd mentality, there always has to be one who goes "wait but". It happens online too, you ever see a thread going one way, unanimous and then some asshole has to come in and ruin it by pointing out all the contrary facts? Just human nature.

2045RadicalMattZ said:

purplethunder3121 said:

More B.S. Never thought I would see Prince in this category; that's what makes me sad. MJ was musical lightning in his heyday; Prince kept spinning out great songs, hit or miss, over all his years. They were both extraordinary musical artists in their prime years...and that's how they should be remembered and celebrated.

It's coming man. ....some douche kid born in the 2000's is gonna come up and say PRINCE IS OVERRATED. ....Mark my words. I know it'll be hard not to back slap the ignorant asshole sonofabitch, but you may have to

Shoot, I was in high school in the 2000s and someone said that to me THEN.

In fact, people thought I was kinda weird for being a huge fan of Michael and Prince. That's why this whole VS crap never made sense to me. I got it DOUBLE

bboy87 said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

purplethunder3121 said: It's coming man. ....some douche kid born in the 2000's is gonna come up and say PRINCE IS OVERRATED. ....Mark my words. I know it'll be hard not to back slap the ignorant asshole sonofabitch, but you may have to

Shoot, I was in high school in the 2000s and someone said that to me THEN.

In fact, people thought I was kinda weird for being a huge fan of Michael and Prince. That's why this whole VS crap never made sense to me. I got it DOUBLE

See, that's the weird beauty of it. I played the hell out of Prince's music when my son was young; by the time he was 18 he was teaching himself guitar and bass (with a music background) and Prince was one of his music heroes. He mastered some of Prince's guitar solos. We went to 13 Prince concerts together between 2010 and 2014. Some terrific memories. Wouldn't change it for the world!

purplethunder3121 said:

Michael Jackson could sing out tunes using only a microphone and still be a showstopper. This was evident in the 1970s when he performed at dances.

Michael Jackson deserved ALL the fame that he's received, gained by love, blood, sweat, and tears! I wish he'd have reached back to his performing sibs a little more during his career after his independent streak was established; that might have elevated the ole' school R&B style a bit more in pop prominence. It's amazing to find the number of Jackson fans who don't know much of that genre's acts & history. Such an awareness trend is also the same among many fans of the Purple One, so I suppose the industry is mainly to blame for that effect. The situation has a lot to do with what they choose to promote--we see the effects to this day.

>

Michael Jackson fans can be a little troublesome however, when making comparisons between Michael and whomever other artist, though. He's always going to be the greatest!

scorp84 said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

PeteSilas said:

Very Sweet.

purplethunder3121 said:

bboy87 said:

Shoot, I was in high school in the 2000s and someone said that to me THEN.

In fact, people thought I was kinda weird for being a huge fan of Michael and Prince. That's why this whole VS crap never made sense to me. I got it DOUBLE

See, that's the weird beauty of it. I played the hell out of Prince's music when my son was young; by the time he was 18 he was teaching himself guitar and bass (with a music background) and Prince was one of his music heroes. He mastered some of Prince's guitar solos. We went to 13 Prince concerts together between 2010 and 2014. Some terrific memories. Wouldn't change it for the world!

purple05 said:

I think MJ cared too much about what people thought of him. I think the accusations in 93, fucked him to a point of no return though. Very sad to see him self destruct and be destroyed like that.

PeteSilas said:

i mentioned how the world stopped after he died, the net crashed, i still remember white people filling the city streets walking backwards as an ode to the moonwalk. and ya, there was a huge price for that fame, he spent so much time in courtrooms and in hiding that it had to kill his creativity.

MJ = KING Of Entertainment!

purple05 said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

It's coming man. ....some douche kid born in the 2000's is gonna come up and say PRINCE IS OVERRATED. ....Mark my words. I know it'll be hard not to back slap the ignorant asshole sonofabitch, but you may have to

I hope not. Prince will NEVER be overrated

he won't, Jon Bream called him the most complete pop star ever and it's true but there will always, always be naysayers with anyone. Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali are about as good as fighters get and there have been people, usually opponents who deride them. Consensus generally rules though, sugar ray robinson is always called "pound for pound the greatest fighter to ever live" and Ali is generally acknowledged as the greatest heavyweight and star of the sport.

i don't know, his heyday was 45 years ago so his fame naturally isn't what it was but in his time he was cited as "the most recognizable man on earth" and he was. Him being Muslim introduced a lot of the worlds population to him when a lot of those people might not even have understood what he actually did for a living. MJ, of course is known all over the americas and europe, how deep into the other spots on earth I don't know.

purple05 said:

I don't even think Ali is more popular than MJ but he's up there. Yea MJ just had a special effect on people. Love him or hate em. That's something you can't recreate. It's also why I don't understand the need for Beyoncé to be pushed as the new MJ. She's not and she will even tell you that. I don't even think it was the sane. I think MJ cared too much about what people thought of him. I think the accusations in 93, fucked him to a point of no return though. Very sad to see him self destruct and be destroyed like that. PeteSilas said:

i'm not black but i had a black stepdad and friends, i remember the jheri curl and all the grease. My stepdad actually made a deal with some guy to take a cat off his hands for fifty bucks so he could keep his jheri curl, i've joked many times over the years about that because he hated that cat. Anyway, Michael was the biggest, as I said, worldwide, maybe Ali is more popular, maybe but Michael was a phenomenon, not only was he phenomenal, his impact on people was phenomenal, i mentioned how the world stopped after he died, the net crashed, i still remember white people filling the city streets walking backwards as an ode to the moonwalk. and ya, there was a huge price for that fame, he spent so much time in courtrooms and in hiding that it had to kill his creativity.

purple05 said:

scorp84 said:

I'm not really entertaining the "Prince vs MJ" conversations, so I don't see how my statement can be seen that way. Besides the fact that their dominance of the music landscape kinda overlapped during a period in the 80's, they weren't really in the same peer group musically, being that Mike had about 10 years on Prince as a signed artist. I said you can't "overrate" his fame, because it's something you're unable to quantify. His reach is just too deep. As much as people like to say, "The Beatles this" or "Elvis that", MJ surpassed that beyond every measure. Some people get violently angry, uncomfortable, and ignorantly choose to dismiss this fact, but race was and still is a huge factor in that. A lot of people resented the fact that this black kid, who would grow into a man, attained a "God-like" "Superhero" type of stature, to the point it that drove many-a white boy and girl to utter the words "I want to be HIM". That's that.

I'm sorry Scorp, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was agreeing with you. People always say MJ wasn't as prolific as Prince and Madonna and he wasn't in his later years but he had been professionally touring and recording since the mid 60s. By the mid 80 he had been a professional for about 20 years, Madonna and Prince not even 10 years by that point. Let that sink in for a moment..... Worldwide... MJs only peer is the Beatles. Elvis is fantastic but MJ did surpass him. I noticed lots of those white baby boomers rarely if ever give the black artist their due. That goes for Prince, MJ, James, Little Richard, Chuck, etc [Edited 11/18/17 17:47pm]

My bad, purple05. It's all love.

As a child of the 80's, who was there to witness that madness firsthand.....I have to say MJ was NOT overrated. That shit was real!!!!! I remember my best friend having the real, leather " Beat It" jacket, and me having the imitation Thriller coat. Gosh, those times were soooo crazy. We were walking around with glitter gloves and everything. And it was from the very young to the very old. Every female in my family was on board. I remember when he came to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. We chased what was probably an imersonator to his limo. Crazy but fun times. There will never be another time like that.

I had the fake,red "Beat It" jacket it was considerably cheaper than the "real" one,which was around $300 if I remember correctly.