Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence

People brought up handicapped and blind kids up to The Beatles and thought the Fab 4 could cure them

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

no, he sold 40 million album in one swoop. It was not overated.

Yeah I never got that side of his fame either.

Number one no one is carrying me off passed out from a show that it took a miracle to get into in the first place!

laurarichardson said:

Free2BMe said:

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.

TheFman said:

songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

Also the 1st 4 singles the Jackson 5 released reached #1 on the Hot 100 and they had no music videos, and MTV didn't exist.

TheFman said:

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.

What really happened was the image perspective overtook the talent perspective and undermind it

This video says it all:

TheFman said:

MickyDolenz said:

TheFman said:

songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

That's silly,

the video's came as 2nd and 3th single, so the 'damage' was done for the next releases. And then the last single with the mega-video really took him on 'that' level, because of the video.

And Jackson 5 stuff was mainly before this happened, and he had not 'that' aura so that's irrelevant

Thriller was also my favorite album before Purple Rain came out, I'm not breaking anything down, just trying to say that yes that adoreship level was a tad too much.

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

You had to be there.

TheFman said:

MickyDolenz said:

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

That's silly,

the video's came as 2nd and 3th single, so the 'damage' was done for the next releases. And then the last single with the mega-video really took him on 'that' level, because of the video.

And Jackson 5 stuff was mainly before this happened, and he had not 'that' aura so that's irrelevant

Thriller was also my favorite album before Purple Rain came out, I'm not breaking anything down, just trying to say that yes that adoreship level was a tad too much.

The marketplace makes the decision on these things. Millions of albums being sold and fans screaming is not too much if it is real. That is the difference between a real phenomean and hype.

Seeing Michael Jackson live was the next biggest thing from seeing Jesus stand in front of you. That's how it felt back in the day, if you were a teenager, at the very least.

And, no, his fame wasn't just something that was caused and maintained by performing live "big songs" from Thriller like "Billie Jean" or "Beat It". People loved songs like "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal" and "Black Or White" just as much when they came out.

Yeah, sure. People should have been listening to Prince instead, but that's a whole another aspect of it.

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

TheFman said:

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

TheFman said:

laurarichardson said:

TheFman said:

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

No way! And he didn't diddle any kiddles either. This is all ignorance.

TheFman said:

laurarichardson said:

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

There was mania over both and I am not sure how you separate them both. How old are you?

I disagree with the premise of this thread. Michael Jackson fame was at a supernova level. Everybody knew Michael Jackson. He has maintained that fame (and notoriety) and young kids and teens are still aware of him. He is like Elvis, the Beatles as one of those names that retain perpetual acclaim despite the years. Cirque De Soleil, Youtube etc has maintained his vigor as a celebrity name.

If you mean (as I suspect I may have misinterpreted) did he deserve the fame, the status of being above others (and yes even as a fan of a lot of what he did the decreeing himself the King of Pop (and rock and rnb and soul) grated on the nerves in the end) To this I would say most people don't deserve fame to the extent they receive it. This is where hype and promotion, acclaim and the unchecked emotion of the fan(atic) comes into it.

I feel that Michael Jackson attained a Tsunami level of fame that once at that apex was able to sustain itself through lulls. It became accepted fact, common knowledge that he was a star. I believe the Beatles and Elvis (my two prime examples) achieved this status. How did this happen? I haven't got a definitive answer, like John Lennon once said, if he knew he would manage 10 groups and sit at home.

However, what I will say is that Michael Jackson hit STAR MOMENTS. For myself Prince became my favourite artist (with Bowie, the Beatles and the Cure closely following) at a particular moment. It was a definite time. Right after Let's Go Crazy (then he followed it up with The Beautiful Ones and it was like forget about it). Michael jackson had star moments. He had Billy Jean at the Mowton 25th, the Thriller video, Moonwalking, The Billy Jean video, in fact so many of the videos, the rock and pop mix with Beat It. It helps to have the mass hysteria effect, peer pressure and herd mentality as everyone bought or was aware of Thriller. STAR MOMENTS are when you become aware this person is special and no matter what you do they will always be a star or superstar in your mind (regardless of logic or output.

I remember how Michael Jackson was presented. His videos were events, specially airing on channels like an event. Did he maintain the quality to maintain that title. Of course not, because nobody can! But he had done enough to deserve and qualify that level of fame. In fact any other male artist has the plastic surgery and child molestation charges and they are sunk under a rock into the abyss of pop music trivia (Gary Glitter anyone?)

Michael Jackson had a stellar child star career, a credible teen career, parlayed that into the stellar Off the Wall, Thriler for its success is the hope diamond/ the centrepiece of his career (just a great album that sprouted wings), Bad was huge, Dangerous (is a fantastic album, a one-two punch as Prince was regaining zeitgeist with Diamonds and Pearls), and then it starts getting stretched....

History had some solid songs, Blood on the Dancefloor had a awesome single (IMHO), Invincible - I just wasn't feeling the hubris and hyperbole at this point, and perhaps the facepant and "razzle dazzle" was wearing off for me. So on a personal level subjectively, he did start to tarnish the fame that he had achieved, perhaps by overexposure, inconsistency acting like the aging heavyweight claiming he could still knock out the up and comers best with their middling performances (Prince had a stage of this).

However I still maintain he did enough to keep that star power for the public. I don't like to think he did anything bad with the kids, but lets just say it has cast a shadow on his legacy that I don't choose to explore intellectually.

laurarichardson said:

TheFman said:

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

There was mania over both and I am not sure how you separate them both. How old are you?

what's that supposed to mean?

CynicKill said:

Yeah I never got that side of his fame either.

Number one no one is carrying me off passed out from a show that it took a miracle to get into in the first place!

I know that's right! I always thought that too when I would see people passing out at his concerts.

If I recall, even MJ wondered about people passing out and even doing those types of stadium shows- he said he didn't know how people could even see anything.

robertgeorge said:

I disagree with the premise of this thread. Michael Jackson fame was at a supernova level. Everybody knew Michael Jackson. He has maintained that fame (and notoriety) and young kids and teens are still aware of him. He is like Elvis, the Beatles as one of those names that retain perpetual acclaim despite the years. Cirque De Soleil, Youtube etc has maintained his vigor as a celebrity name.

Agreed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

This one is beautiful.