Or am I? Madonna once said this when the authorities asked her to tone down her Blond Ambition show. But with this new video being removed and now rumors about it being massively re-edited and neutered, could it be that the one time queen of controversy is compromising her artistic integrity? I don't know what I think. I want to see the original video. But I don't know if it's suitable for mainstream rotation. What are y'all's thoughts?

well She is in a Different time period of Her Career&also with the War going on She doesn't want to Be Assed out like Tim Robbins&Sussan Surreadan(Misspelled) they can't even go the Baseball Hall of Fame for the 15nth Anniversry of "Bull Durham" because the baseball HAll GM doesn't feel there choice of words on the subject of War is right.Madonna is thinking Business first&also this is Her 20 nth Year So She has alot riding on things.Business&sense Ya Know?Plus She is Split between America&England&the whole thing won't make Her look good coming like this.I thought the Video was cleaver as it was&Personally I think Don King should have a Pay per View of Bush&Sadaam in a Boxing Ring instead of sending troops over there.but that's me personally.I wish Madonna hadn't touched it up but I also understand the ramifacations.

I'd say a smart artist knows when to accept constructive criticism and edit themselves. (Something Prince has never learned the value of...)
In this case, I don't really know who's saying it should be toned down, but my thoughts are that she's decided this herself, not cause anyone else is urging her to do it. The decision is hers alone to make, and I don't think it compromises her integrity, but in this case, perhaps strengthens it.

Not to mention, now she's a mother. I think that's changed her perspectives greatly...
[This message was edited Sat Apr 12 10:53:44 PDT 2003 by CarrieMpls]

Show the damn video already!!!
People are offended by everything anyways.

Don't think she could do much more damage than the ignorant media has. But I respect her for taking into consideration the feelings of those who have lost loved ones during this time. Controversial? Well, I've never seen Madonna or Prince for that matter being controversial. I think people get fussed up over things they're not willing to face or even give a second thought to. Madonna can always 'back up' anything she does. She's not a 'shock value ' artist in my opinion. She's extraordinarily talented, and an extremely intelligent woman. I have seen this video available for download on Kazaa, but not sure if I should give it a go or not. Besides, I keep reading she'll most likely have it on the new album when it comes out or another DVD single. Let's hope so. I think the edited version perhaps is just for the MTV crowd. If it's on a dvd I hope it's unedited!!

Madonna finally sold out for real. She did this a few years ago. Or she just has gotten old.Having children and maturity Im sure is also part of the reason for this new approach. Its just like prince doing TRC and not cussing etc. I was wondering when Madonna was goign to go this route and she has, starting a while back though imo.

rdhull said:

When were the first signs of it for you?

I still think she's edgy and provocative, just in a different way.

She seems to be pushing spiritual, ironic and violence these days instead of fucking with gender politics.

TRON said:[quote]

rdhull said:

When she got married after her child was born. I remember a journalist stating that her getting married was not the shocking thing to do but what was probably expected. I always thought it was the opposite. I thought everyone would think Madonna would continue to be an unwed mother so that was not going to be shocking. But I was wrong. She went the traditional domestic route which can be shocking especially in her case...yet after that I knew she had a different perspective o things since having her baby...which is expected. Thats why it wasn't shocking. And thats when the worm turned imo.



I agree and I like this new stance actually. Im not sure if it fits her better, the times better, or me better. Probably all three. I dont feel the need to see Prince hump speakers anymore either. And her What It Feels Like For ..video directed by Guy and her Die Another Day shows her rebelliousness and edge-provacative side in richer terms than the full frontal in your face of Sex book and Justify My Love video type of edge. I for one like this new style for her actually. So I apologuize for saying she sold out in that aspect. She couldnt be over the top outrageous forever, thank god. And she didn't sell out completely because she still is provacative enough..she just doesn't try to shock as much or with such fervor about sexuality as she once did. But what is selling out to me is her changing it up (the video) and not letting the public decide if it was too offensive given the war climate..usually she would have more faith in the intelligence of the/her audience to see above that and let the videos stand..(only to be let down many times).



yes, and Im glad shes changed from sex to hypocrisy, irony etc issues...

i wouldn't go so far as to say she has totally sold out. in terms of artistic expression there are certain envelops to push, and certain times to push them.

she may have felt that at this point in time it would be inappropriate or un-wise to push that certain envelope. only time will tell if she has "sold out". i kind of doubt it, but you never know.

rdhull said:

I don't think Madonna should be crticized for this new approach to her career. She is much older now, she is a mother, she has changed a lot. I would hope someone slaps me if I behave the same way when I'm 40+ that I did in my early and mid-twenties. I believe as people mature they learn ways to incite debate and discussion without being as 'in-your-face'. To me it's the difference between being assertive and just being an ass. You can be assertive, stand up for yourself, your values, your point of view while respecting other people's beliefs and feelings. Or you can be an ass and just spout out whatever you want to say regardless of how it may impact others. A titch more boring? Yes. More classy and respectable? IMO, absolutely.

am I getting old???

rd, did I mention that you are cool?

medoc2003 said:

yeah I agree..I explained my change of stance in my following posts about not totally selling out



and this is the important factor here true. In times of turmoil whether it be wise or not commercially etc, isnt that the time to put things out in front? I know its not the sixties but still


yeah, I agree and I dont think she has sold out completely..just older, wiser, etc...

endorphin74 said:

I agree with this as I have already posted...but one day there will be a cultural icon that will always remain static and not fluid. Something we can all depend on to either bash, be shocked by, find comfort in, etc..all becasue we know they will always be there and always be the same. Whether or not thats a good thing is not the case.

yeah i think we were typing at the same tome, because when i clicked on the post your reply wasn't on there yet. i suck at typing so it takes me a while to proof read it 8 times to correct all the horrible errors.

TRON said:

not as much as you..you're damn near ice. Im an opinionated blowhard.

rdhull said:

You mean like Kelly Osbourne?

SHe hasn't tottally sold out but I'm dissapointed. She is making these changes for public opinion and that kind of sucks. The Madonna before would have been shocking and taboo and if people couldn't handle it, they can get screwed and by Cyndi Lauper CDs (or I guess today, it would be...uhhh...Pink). This war against free speech is going to be something that we will question in about 20 years. If Madonna would have done what we wanted to before, she would have been a hero. I just wonder how badly the video will be edited. And where is it suppose to be shown and when? I don't get cable anymore!

CarrieMpls said:

no!

But someone like lets say a Madonna or Prince...who are basically known for their sexual content and outrageousness..or even a cranky author etc or off the wall social commentator etc. To have them remain the same, using the same attutude will be something that th e audience or culture wuill always have to rely on. In other words when the world is going mad you can always say say "well at least so and so hasn't changed. Lets go see them-lets turn on___. We know what to expect and I want to escape for a while". There is comfort in remained familiarity imo.

You mean like Kelly Osbourne?


[/quote]

no!

But someone like lets say a Madonna or Prince...who are basically known for their sexual content and outrageousness..or even a cranky author etc or off the wall social commentator etc. To have them remain the same, using the same attutude will be something that th e audience or culture wuill always have to rely on. In other words when the world is going mad you can always say say "well at least so and so hasn't changed. Lets go see them-lets turn on___. We know what to expect and I want to escape for a while". There is comfort in remained familiarity imo.[/quote]
-----
kind of like the rolling stones or aerosmith. they're, what, both in their 60's, still out there doing (can't get no) satisfaction and walk this way.

.
[This message was edited Sat Apr 12 12:27:29 PDT 2003 by medoc2003]

rdhull said:

Definitely.

medoc2003 said:

---
kind of like the rolling stones or aerosmith. they're, what, both in their 60's, still out there doing (can't get no) satisfaction and walk this way.
[/quote]

yes and no..its damn near disgusting to see it but its comfortable. Plus Aerosmith in the seventies..that type is what Im talking about. They sold out many moons ago in the eighties and then became pop. Now if they and The Stones remained "rude" and not corporate then it would have been more like the stable icon.

The closest I can think of rigth off the top of my head though is someone like Johnny Rotten..he still plays up the "everyone is an asshole" schtick and flips off the interviewer and walks out. You know you wont see JR ( at least afaik) making a video that is rude and then thinking of editing it down for fear of offending, or see him vacuming and cleaning his oven. Or Norman Mailer writing a romance novel. Not saying that these are good and bad things ( no growth arguments etc) but its good to know there are some things you can still count on lol.

I have to admit that I'm disappointed. I would rather have her pull it altogether than completely change it for mass consumption. Madonna has always been an artist in my opinion- her songs, videos and image carefully thought out to convey strong messages. Since 1989, to me it has never seemed that her videos/image were crafted with the intent to sell lots of records.

That said, I can understand pulling the video if she had second thoughts about it. However, completely changing it so that it can be shown seems like an attempt to sell the album rather than an attempt to purely convey a message. She didn't alter "What It Feels Like for a Girl" so that it would be played on MTV.

So the video they show on VH1 wednesday will be butchered? No one can think of new ways for publicity.

I have mixed feelings about all this.I truly understand why Madonna pulled the video.The conservative,pro-war crowd were just sharpening their knives,ready to go after her for having a different point of view.But,at the same time,I think many other people (even fans) would have misinterpreted the video,found it offensive and the backlash would have taken away from the song's original message (which actually has nothing to do with the war) and the album itself.


Personally,I think the video is brilliant,one of her best videos ever.I'm just glad that it's all over the net,so that fans and anyone else can see it if they choose.It would have been terrible if it was pulled BEFORE any of us had a chance to see it.In many ways,it doesn't feel like she has "pulled" it at all.I watch it several times a day...lol...as far as i'm concerned,it has been released.

What's the deal with the newly,re-edited video? I keep hearing all these rumors and I don't know what to believe.Does a new video exist and when will it be shown on TV?

And to those of who still haven't seen the video,here is a site where you can see it. In the top right hand corner,click on "American Life" and you will be able to see the video in Quicktime format...


http://homepage.mac.com/Kylebingley



.
[This message was edited Sun Apr 13 8:59:28 PDT 2003 by DavidEye]

i've seen the video, and it'd only offend those who get easily offended. it ain't that bad...i honestly don't see why madonna wants 2 pull the plug on the whole thing.

if u didn't want 2 make such a statement and would worry that you'd offend folks so much, ya shouldnt've done it 2 begin with.


mine!!!

The original video is nothing to write home about, IMO. So maybe a new one would help.

As for her decision to release a different version, if I were her record label, she'd better. Don't be spending half a million dollars of my money making it, then on a whim pull it.

rdhull said:

copy. print. save

My thoughts:

I think it's a good idea that she pulled this video. Not because I support the current war. I think it was great that she was making a statement with her art, and all of that. I'm glad she pulled it, because I don't want to see Madonna as a hypocrite.

In some of her recent interviews about the song/album, she has said that a lot of it is about getting priorities in order: not being obssessed with celebrity, fashion, popular culture, etc. That so many trivial things take precedent these days, and that when there are important things, we tend to trivialize them too.

I think the message of the video is great. That we take serious things and play dress-up with them, and we become preoccupied with the idealized/fictionalized/sanitized(?)/popculturalized version of them.

Why I think pulling the video was a good idea, and saves her from being hypocritical is that, even though I like the message she was conveying (or, rather, that she was conveying a message, even one I don't agree with), considering war has broken out in the 2 months it was filmed, the video itself becomes part of the problem that she's decrying and trivializes war. She's made pop art out of an anti-war statement. She's made pop culture out of war.

Now, 2 months ago, this was all a pretty neat idea. In the time since, things have gotten serious in the world. In the meantime, she's made statements that the song/album is about getting over all the trivial pop culture bullshit, and caring more about what's really important. That she chose an anti-war message to express this is unfortunate, as the video itself becomes part of the problem she's rallying against.

Moonbeam said:

Actually, I don't think she's edited it for public opinion.

I read an article yesterday about Madonna and Warner Bros. being on the outs. They kept telling her they wished she wouldn't make this video because everyone knew that war was looming, but she did it anyway. Warner Bros. was going to compensate her for production costs. So then she pulled it, and they said that they weren't going to pay for it. Which seems fair, and kind of makes me think that she was "pulling a Prince." I have a feeling that we're seeing a re-edited version, rather than seeing it pulled, as a reaction to WB not wanting to pay for something that's not going to see the light of day. Madonna wants her fucking money, and Madonna gets what Madonna wants

Hey,I went to Tower Records to pick up the 2-track "American Life" CD single and I also bought the new issue of "Q" with Madonna on the cover.It's a GREAT interview with some kickass photos!! Actually,the whole magazine is fantastic,and there's even an article on Prince (something about his most essential recordings).