Scorp said:

One dynamic led to the other.....moving beyond his natural being led to ambigous situations that put him in situations for allegations to surface...as early as 1989, based on that same false image, me as a teenage fan of his musical message, I could already see that sooner or later, he was setting himself up for allegations....that's why when the first allegations occurred in 93, it didn't suprise me at all...not one iota

and just like Nelson George's commentary post MJ's career, the psychology is the same of what Quincy said about "being the most normal guy I know" highlights how both men at different points tried to protect their memories of what MJ used to be........

and some realness needs to be applied here instead of all this beating around the bush..........when someone is accussed of something like that, or I should say when that same person continues to put himself in the same position as the first time and gets accused for it a second time, people who truly care about you are going to become frustrated with your actions and show anger in the process

and all this talk about Quincy Jones "abandoning" him, I saw zero of his supposed "friends" who showed up in that courtroom during that trial which wasn't a surprise to me at all....because they were cool on it, those six months during that trial, there was not one peep out of them, not even little bo peep

there wasn't this talk about abandonment during the years of Off The Wall or Thriller......

and fans act like the Quincy Jones of the world don't read, or have TV to watch where fans crap on him or coming up with fables talking about stuff like he didn't want the Billie Jean single on Thriller..just making up stuff right out the blue....and he knows there's an attempt to write him out of MJs history because not all, but the majority of them want Michael to be remembered as the King of Pop and nothing else

PeteSilas said:

his race issues and the legal issues aren't the same scorp. I don't think quincy had much issue with Mike changing his face but i don't know, at least publicly, he never said anything negative during the earlier eras, i still have a people article from the bad era where he calls michael "the most normal guy I know". Anyway, there are different types of people, haven't you ever been through some shit where people abandoned you? some kind of hard time, maybe even completely out of your control? I've seen people with health issues suddendly wonder where all their friends went, people who get in trouble with the law find out they have no friends or what have you. but sometimes there are the die hard friends, those are rare, quincy is not one of them. just look at cosby, everyone has turned on the man, even the people who looked up at him as a mentor over the years are making statements like "i don't know the man, i just worked with him" therefore, when you have a phylicia rashad stand up for Bill, that shows a mark of character if not good judgement because anyone who stands up for bill now faces ostracization too. even the girl who played rudy took heat for escorting the man to court.

[Edited 7/29/17 19:39pm]

I don't think any rightful person that doesn't want mj written out of history should do that to quincy or any other successful non-white person; and if anyone has said that (as far as I know I haven't really seen people say that), then you need better friends

[Snip - luv4u]

alphastreet said:

Scorp said:

One dynamic led to the other.....moving beyond his natural being led to ambigous situations that put him in situations for allegations to surface...as early as 1989, based on that same false image, me as a teenage fan of his musical message, I could already see that sooner or later, he was setting himself up for allegations....that's why when the first allegations occurred in 93, it didn't suprise me at all...not one iota

and just like Nelson George's commentary post MJ's career, the psychology is the same of what Quincy said about "being the most normal guy I know" highlights how both men at different points tried to protect their memories of what MJ used to be........

and some realness needs to be applied here instead of all this beating around the bush..........when someone is accussed of something like that, or I should say when that same person continues to put himself in the same position as the first time and gets accused for it a second time, people who truly care about you are going to become frustrated with your actions and show anger in the process

and all this talk about Quincy Jones "abandoning" him, I saw zero of his supposed "friends" who showed up in that courtroom during that trial which wasn't a surprise to me at all....because they were cool on it, those six months during that trial, there was not one peep out of them, not even little bo peep

there wasn't this talk about abandonment during the years of Off The Wall or Thriller......

and fans act like the Quincy Jones of the world don't read, or have TV to watch where fans crap on him or coming up with fables talking about stuff like he didn't want the Billie Jean single on Thriller..just making up stuff right out the blue....and he knows there's an attempt to write him out of MJs history because not all, but the majority of them want Michael to be remembered as the King of Pop and nothing else

[Edited 7/29/17 19:39pm]

I don't think any rightful person that doesn't want mj written out of history should do that to quincy or any other successful non-white person; and if anyone has said that (as far as I know I haven't really seen people say that), then you need better friends

LOL

[Snip - luv4u]

alphastreet said:

Scorp said:

One dynamic led to the other.....moving beyond his natural being led to ambigous situations that put him in situations for allegations to surface...as early as 1989, based on that same false image, me as a teenage fan of his musical message, I could already see that sooner or later, he was setting himself up for allegations....that's why when the first allegations occurred in 93, it didn't suprise me at all...not one iota

and just like Nelson George's commentary post MJ's career, the psychology is the same of what Quincy said about "being the most normal guy I know" highlights how both men at different points tried to protect their memories of what MJ used to be........

and some realness needs to be applied here instead of all this beating around the bush..........when someone is accussed of something like that, or I should say when that same person continues to put himself in the same position as the first time and gets accused for it a second time, people who truly care about you are going to become frustrated with your actions and show anger in the process

and all this talk about Quincy Jones "abandoning" him, I saw zero of his supposed "friends" who showed up in that courtroom during that trial which wasn't a surprise to me at all....because they were cool on it, those six months during that trial, there was not one peep out of them, not even little bo peep

there wasn't this talk about abandonment during the years of Off The Wall or Thriller......

and fans act like the Quincy Jones of the world don't read, or have TV to watch where fans crap on him or coming up with fables talking about stuff like he didn't want the Billie Jean single on Thriller..just making up stuff right out the blue....and he knows there's an attempt to write him out of MJs history because not all, but the majority of them want Michael to be remembered as the King of Pop and nothing else

[Edited 7/29/17 19:39pm]

I don't think any rightful person that doesn't want mj written out of history should do that to quincy or any other successful non-white person; and if anyone has said that (as far as I know I haven't really seen people say that), then you need better friends

I never mentioned friends, I'm referring to a body of fans and people placed in the position to dictate the narrative and how they want it to play out

I didn't mention anything about MJ being written out of the history books, I'm talking about the reinterpretation of the contribution that was actually made by contemporaries and the family act that fueled his success and to shape his musical direction to become the artist that he became.....

Rewind back to the years before all the static started, we heard plenty conversations about the contributions of those very people, and I'm talkin before Thriller.....we heard conversationsa and read articles about the Jacksons developing their sound by working with Kenneth Gamble and Leon Huff, who are defiinitely one of the best music producers we've ever seen, or the work the brothers achieved together when this stuff meant something, reading articles about how Randy worked with MJ in co-writing Shake Your Body to the Ground, a staple song during the Disco era and hows outlived that period sounding as fresh today as it was when it was actually created.........the Peacock symbol the brothers used to display on the back of their album covers....working with Paul McCartney in learning how to build on great songwriting.....or even how a ton of the best vocalists and musicians alive contributing to the creation of the Thriller LP.........or the great choreography that MJ worked with Michael Peters in developing for that Beat It video and the Thriller video............all that stuff was awesome......

fast forward to 2017, and none of that stuff is ever mentioned and hasn't been discussed in a very long time.....because it's all about rememering him as the King of Pop that usurps all those great memories......

mjscarousal said:

PeteSilas said:

his race issues and the legal issues aren't the same scorp. I don't think quincy had much issue with Mike changing his face but i don't know, at least publicly, he never said anything negative during the earlier eras, i still have a people article from the bad era where he calls michael "the most normal guy I know". Anyway, there are different types of people, haven't you ever been through some shit where people abandoned you? some kind of hard time, maybe even completely out of your control? I've seen people with health issues suddendly wonder where all their friends went, people who get in trouble with the law find out they have no friends or what have you. but sometimes there are the die hard friends, those are rare, quincy is not one of them. just look at cosby, everyone has turned on the man, even the people who looked up at him as a mentor over the years are making statements like "i don't know the man, i just worked with him" therefore, when you have a phylicia rashad stand up for Bill, that shows a mark of character if not good judgement because anyone who stands up for bill now faces ostracization too. even the girl who played rudy took heat for escorting the man to court.

Hun, Scorp hates MJ...period (regardless of how much he lies and says he doesn't). Its a lost cause going back and forth with him. He thinks anyone who has slandered MJ has not done anything wrong.

[Edited 7/30/17 1:24am]

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

Ah that's a shame, I have huge respect for Quincy Jones (especially over the last decade), hopefully he gets it all sorted.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Hun, Scorp hates MJ...period (regardless of how much he lies and says he doesn't). Its a lost cause going back and forth with him. He thinks anyone who has slandered MJ has not done anything wrong.

[Edited 7/30/17 1:24am]

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

You never have anything positive to say about Michael and you always defend people who slander him. Its obvious you don't like him and don't like things about his life, thats fine (I don't care) but you obsessively push your distorted views on MJ fans and derail MJ threads, its exhausting. I am sure there are anti MJ boards you can go on to passionately express your views about him. You are never objective at all when you talk about him and none of what you say can be backed by evidence.

[Edited 7/30/17 18:25pm]

PeteSilas said:

there are just as many semi-fans, or people who don't know as much about Mj/Q who think mj was created by q, just like there are mmany people who still think elvis was nothing more than a result of colonel tom parker. q is in no danger of that and you know it.

Exactly. Everyone knows Q was a bad MF and has a resume as long as the Bible.

Problem is, a lot of people have this belief that Michael was simply a singer that Q molded. I've even seen someone say on another site, "Quincy was the brains, Michael was just the face of the music."
Folks need to give both men the credit they deserve. It's simple as that

Then again, there's a lot of people who say Michael got all of his trademarks from Bob Fosse, even though a lot of it came from James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Joe Tex, Fred Astaire, and Gene Kelly...and a lot of Bob Fosse did in The Little Prince was ALREADY done by Gene Kelly and Sammy Davis Jr.

...but that's a whole other thread...

there really are, there's some sites that make you wonder how people can hate someone they never knew. Even if he was a molestor, even if, there are thousands of those, and many of them are confirmed molestors, why can't they turn their hate on some of them? Makes not sense, kind of like OJ and the hate he created, these people didn't even know nichole or ron, do people get this upset about every murder case? of course not, and look at tiger, he does something as minor as cheating, something which most men do if they can get away with it, and they use it to break his spirit, this country is sick and no one here is free from the sickness.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

You never have anything positive to say about Michael and you always defend people who slander him. Its obvious you don't like him and don't like things about his life, thats fine (I don't care) but you obsessively push your distorted views on MJ fans and derail MJ threads, its exhausting. I am sure there are anti MJ boards you can go on to passionately express your views about him. You are never objective at all when you talk about him and none of what you say can be backed by evidence.

[Edited 7/30/17 18:25pm]

ya, anytime you have a pop star of that kind of reach, it's way more than the music, way more. Michael had the timing, it was a time when america would accept a black superstar as not just one of the biggest but by far the biggest. He also was very clever in how he appeared non-threatening and childlike, asexual (a word which people applied to him even in death), it's sad because he got to be the biggest but he couldn't even be a man in this fucked up country. anyway, i'm veering off topic, MJ had the most charisma of any human of this age, with possibly Elvis deserving that designation. He also was a true visionary and businessman in the 80's, he used the new medium of video, sinking lots of his own money into them and raising the bar for everyone. He did something that probably pissed off a lot of white people when he bought the beatles catalogue, symbolically he was saying that not only was he bigger, but he owned them too! Of course his dancing skills and choreography had a lot ot do with his success, and the man looked good. Those are all things that quincy had nothing to do with, he was a piece of it yes, maybe even a part of the most important piece, the music, but still just a piece. That kind of success is about way more than great music, it's also the culture responding to itself in a figure like Michael. Were there big mistakes made? Hell ya, if he were here, i bet he'd say so himself. But he'd also say that those mistakes are what the people after him are suppossed to learn from so they can be just as great or greater in their own ways.

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

there are just as many semi-fans, or people who don't know as much about Mj/Q who think mj was created by q, just like there are mmany people who still think elvis was nothing more than a result of colonel tom parker. q is in no danger of that and you know it.

Exactly. Everyone knows Q was a bad MF and has a resume as long as the Bible.

Problem is, a lot of people have this belief that Michael was simply a singer that Q molded. I've even seen someone say on another site, "Quincy was the brains, Michael was just the face of the music."
Folks need to give both men the credit they deserve. It's simple as that

Then again, there's a lot of people who say Michael got all of his trademarks from Bob Fosse, even though a lot of it came from James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Joe Tex, Fred Astaire, and Gene Kelly...and a lot of Bob Fosse did in The Little Prince was ALREADY done by Gene Kelly and Sammy Davis Jr.

...but that's a whole other thread...

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

You never have anything positive to say about Michael and you always defend people who slander him. Its obvious you don't like him and don't like things about his life, thats fine (I don't care) but you obsessively push your distorted views on MJ fans and derail MJ threads, its exhausting. I am sure there are anti MJ boards you can go on to passionately express your views about him. You are never objective at all when you talk about him and none of what you say can be backed by evidence.

[Edited 7/30/17 18:25pm]

I know u dont like it, but the truth ain't comfortable

And I never talked down his talent or impact in this world, Ive never done that, but after reaching the pinnacle he received terrible advise that did not serve him well, there's no getting around that

so you think MJ killed r&B? interesting. The man wasn't perfect, we know that, however, the country he came from created, matched and exceeded his faults. In the end, Michael is a sympathetic, sad figure who many of us hurt badly for. I think James Baldwin was right when he stated that america was not kind ot his kind of success in the past. It's possible nothing he could have done would have changed his story after thriller. America just has it in for Black people and particularly black males.

anyway, you mention plastic surgery, that's kind of a seperate topic. people who are famous do have a lot of insecurities and voracious egos so any jackass who tells them they can keep them young or whatever is vulnerable, it's tragic but just like the above issues, you got to spread that blame around. you can't put it all on the crooked doctors. MJ wasn't the only one to do that, Elvis had a couple surgeries too, he had an eyelift before he died, if you look you can tell, his eyes used to be kind of slanted downwards, he also had a nose job. Like anything ego derived, there seems to never be such a thing as good enough.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Hun, Scorp hates MJ...period (regardless of how much he lies and says he doesn't). Its a lost cause going back and forth with him. He thinks anyone who has slandered MJ has not done anything wrong.

[Edited 7/30/17 1:24am]

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

scorp, who do you think advised him of this? just wondering, not arguing. I always thought it was america's propaganda that made him do it, not any one person. The color thing did not hurt him nearly as bad as the molestation scandals, that's what really ruined his career and his life, not the other stuff.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

You never have anything positive to say about Michael and you always defend people who slander him. Its obvious you don't like him and don't like things about his life, thats fine (I don't care) but you obsessively push your distorted views on MJ fans and derail MJ threads, its exhausting. I am sure there are anti MJ boards you can go on to passionately express your views about him. You are never objective at all when you talk about him and none of what you say can be backed by evidence.

[Edited 7/30/17 18:25pm]

I know u dont like it, but the truth ain't comfortable

And I never talked down his talent or impact in this world, Ive never done that, but after reaching the pinnacle he received terrible advise that did not serve him well, there's no getting around that

Pete Silas

I said nothing about Michael Jackson destroying r&b

I said the system of race permeating the industry expoilted him as well as beginning to destabilize the r&b genre

PeteSilas said:

so you think MJ killed r&B? interesting. The man wasn't perfect, we know that, however, the country he came from created, matched and exceeded his faults. In the end, Michael is a sympathetic, sad figure who many of us hurt badly for. I think James Baldwin was right when he stated that america was not kind ot his kind of success in the past. It's possible nothing he could have done would have changed his story after thriller. America just has it in for Black people and particularly black males.

anyway, you mention plastic surgery, that's kind of a seperate topic. people who are famous do have a lot of insecurities and voracious egos so any jackass who tells them they can keep them young or whatever is vulnerable, it's tragic but just like the above issues, you got to spread that blame around. you can't put it all on the crooked doctors. MJ wasn't the only one to do that, Elvis had a couple surgeries too, he had an eyelift before he died, if you look you can tell, his eyes used to be kind of slanted downwards, he also had a nose job. Like anything ego derived, there seems to never be such a thing as good enough.

Scorp said:

alright, I'm a tell you exactly what I hate, and I'm gonna be as real as possible.....and I'm a leave this thread be.

this is exactly what I hate....I don't hate Michael Jackson, at all, especially towards the end when I look back on the totality of everything, I've learned through years of reading and observing how off base the music industry (what used to be the recording industry) has been because especially during the integrationist period of the 70s/80s, it did not allow premier artists to function property, it did not allow them to rely on true merit as their careers evelved, and encouraged many of those premier artists to push beyond their natural being with the notion if they did that, it would incur greater commercial sales across the board, and that formula never worked in the grand scheme and that stunted the future growth of the industry in terms of creativity and authenticity, and that's why it has detoriated to the point that it finds itself in now, and sense Michael Jackson had the greatest degree of talent and was a triple threat of sorts being a singer, musician, and performer, he was targeted to make the greatest degree of change.....whereas if it was any other artists besides Michael who had that degree of talent, that person would have been targeted in the same realm......

also, what I hate is how this industry through the veil of the pop ascension has totally destablized an entire genre in R&B and has left it in utter ruins, they exploited it for mass consumption, drained it of all it's resources and decades and decades of cultivation....

and since we are talking about this subject of hate.......I'll tell you what I despised and it should have been something all of us should have reacted in teh same fashion considering how tragic MJ's story ended.......I despise the manner in which those plastic surgeons operated on this man with impunity and got a kick out of taking a black man and turning him into a racial neutralizing presence...and I know it wasn't no black plastic surgeon who participating in that activity, not one.....yes, I absolutely despise that and think it was a crime what they did, because the universe never agreed with it and left MJ in a position where he became imprisoned within his own body of existence and it caused great turmoil in his life......yes I despise that part as I would with a wave of public figures who have went under the knife because they are compelled to take such action because they believe this is what they have to do to gain full acceptance and it does not work, all it really does it create a climate of cynicism

allot of beautiful women, white, black, latino, and asian, their looks have been destroyed and distorted by having unnecessary work done on themselves when they didn't need it, we can go down the line.......

Vivica Fox was a beautiful woman naturally and her looks have been destroyed by going under the knife....Priscilla Presley was a pretty woman and now her looks are distorted for good, Lark Vorhees who used to star in The Head of the Class, those surgeons destroyed her appearance so much to where she barely takes pictures anymore,......Men have been destroyed by this stuff too, Kenny Rogers almost died from that stuff and his appearance is now forever distorted, and he was a cool looking guy in his middle age......all that plastic surgery actually accelerates the aging process and it puts the person who's been worked on continuously in position to where they have to keep undergoing procedures to maintain their look or to try and correct the damage that's already been done..............these plastic surgoeons are playing on people's insecurities and a person has already had too much surgery when you can tell that they have had it....and half of those so-called plastic surgeons are not even board certified, but they play on the fact that the demand for plastic surgery outweighs the people who are qualified to do it....and these non-qualified people are hacking away at people's god given looks and it causes a great deal of grief in the end......none of those individuals ever needed it.

and even in the end when Michael had signed up for those concerts in 2009, he was going to the plastic surgeon then to try and rebuild his appearance because it had collapsed after years and decades of extreme transformational procedures........

Take that element out of the equation, all these public figures I mentioned, their lives would be and would have been much healthier and happy in the long run

I hope that answered your question about hate.

[Edited 7/30/17 17:56pm]

Cloudbuster said:

poor james, i wonder why MJ never visited him in prison, or for that matter, Prince. the story goes, mj wanted to be with Brown's body for hours before the service. always wondered why those guys couldn't go visit the man in his darkest hour. I would have in their shoes.

That issue became the central theme in his life abd career, and it was definitely the central theme when he saw record sales of Bad that sold 18 million copies less domestically vs its predecessor just as music and cultural history Nelson George said was going to happen

Im not trying to be negative, but thats what happened during those years

PeteSilas said:

scorp, who do you think advised him of this? just wondering, not arguing. I always thought it was america's propaganda that made him do it, not any one person. The color thing did not hurt him nearly as bad as the molestation scandals, that's what really ruined his career and his life, not the other stuff.

Scorp said:

I know u dont like it, but the truth ain't comfortable

And I never talked down his talent or impact in this world, Ive never done that, but after reaching the pinnacle he received terrible advise that did not serve him well, there's no getting around that

That Bashir documentary really did him in...

purplethunder3121 said:

That Bashir documentary really did him in...

it realy did, that really sealed his coffin.

Scorp said:

PeteSilas said:

scorp, i know all about the man, i'd probably still be a fan if he hadn't made all those comments. I stand by my statement, michael just gave him more juice, the record company didn't even like the idea of him as producer, which i'm sure you know. His biggest talent is as a social animal and a bullshitter, that's his biggest talent. No doubt he's great though but i'm no longer a fan.

You know better than that. That's your anger at QJ getting to you. Set the personal stuff aside.

Working with MJ did for Quincy was made him boatloads of money, and as you indicated, helped build a bridge for his career to flourish in the MTV Age. This is because MJ was like no other artist QJ had ever worked with before. He was a singular talent.

By the same token . . . Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad don't become the legendary albums they became without Quincy Jones. MJ was already a seasoned veteran by the time they got together, and as Scorp said, MJ had learned so much from other great professionals. But QJ was, and is, as singular a talent as a producer and arranger as MJ was a singer-writer and entertainer.

There are those who think MJ was just a studio creation of QJ. That's not true.

But MJ fanatics would like people to believe QJ was along for the ride. That's equally as ridiculous.

Those albums are such monumental achievements that there's more than enough credit to go around. To both giants.

namepeace said:

alphastreet said:

In full agreement with this; though perhaps it happens as a defensive response to what mainstream publications do in pitting the two men against each other with Quincy getting credit cause giving it to two people is too much for them; and then this gets internalized among the fans who do that, which results in acting the same way, though this comes out of comments made by Quincy.

That's fair; as I said in reply #67, the success of Thriller was so monumental that it's completely foreseeable that the relationship would get messy. QJ and MJ are tied to each other forever, and that has to chafe both big egos after a while. I think fans choose sides, just as they did with Prince and MJ.


He had michaels back after 93 with getting him on vibe if you read about getting him on the cover , with the second charges the comments probably came out of bitterness after helping him get back on track (Quincy heard invincible too and approved from what I remember so they were right) though I agree it was not the platform to say what he did. [Edited 7/31/17 10:15am]

To QJ, I think perhaps he thought that speaking out about MJ after his death would seem less petty and his comments would be put in historical context. Collaborators talk about each other critically/negatively all the time. But this is no ordinary collaborator; this is MJ. As clearly indicated here, his fans don't take kindly to that.

namepeace said:

PeteSilas said:

scorp, i know all about the man, i'd probably still be a fan if he hadn't made all those comments. I stand by my statement, michael just gave him more juice, the record company didn't even like the idea of him as producer, which i'm sure you know. His biggest talent is as a social animal and a bullshitter, that's his biggest talent. No doubt he's great though but i'm no longer a fan.

You know better than that. That's your anger at QJ getting to you. Set the personal stuff aside.

Working with MJ did for Quincy was made him boatloads of money, and as you indicated, helped build a bridge for his career to flourish in the MTV Age. This is because MJ was like no other artist QJ had ever worked with before. He was a singular talent.

By the same token . . . Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad don't become the legendary albums they became without Quincy Jones. MJ was already a seasoned veteran by the time they got together, and as Scorp said, MJ had learned so much from other great professionals. But QJ was, and is, as singular a talent as a producer and arranger as MJ was a singer-writer and entertainer.

There are those who think MJ was just a studio creation of QJ. That's not true.

But MJ fanatics would like people to believe QJ was along for the ride. That's equally as ridiculous.

Those albums are such monumental achievements that there's more than enough credit to go around. To both giants.

Very good post, on the musical front, this is how I always viewed their collaboration together, as equal contributiors

[Edited 7/31/17 11:56am]

PeteSilas said:

damn shame, i used to be the biggest q fan too, now here i am wanting to roll his wheelchair off a dock.

I agree with all your perspectives on Quincy Jones and thank you for being bold enough to share them because I knew people were going to run in here and defend Quincy and of course criticize MJ and MJ fans. Character and intergrity is much more than what you accomplish. Your character defines who you are. When you called Q a bullshitter you were referring to the way he treats people, his character, not his music abilities or talents but again for some people that precedes more than character, it doesn't for me. At the end of the day regardless of how MJ felt behind close doors about Quincy, Michael never publicly disrespected or defamed Quincy the way Quincy DID him. The point you made about Elvis was spot on too but you have to remember Elvis was a White man, not only a White but the Great White Hope for Whites. People are not going to be overly critical about his life and behaviors compared to MJ because of that reason. Its always a double standard when it comes to MJ. He is an easy target to be criticized. It always amazes that people can shit on Michael but they can still be defended lol I knew right away people were going to run in here and say "Quincy a legend he deserves respect for what he did producing MJ albums" negating all the hateful and disrespectful things he has said about MJ over the years which is the only thing being put in questioned. Its almost as if because Quincy is a legend people feel its okay for him to be disrespectful, that is the sad part. I dont give a damn if he produce Michael's first 3 albums or if he is a legend, he is a shitty person and a shitty friend, period.

[Edited 7/31/17 12:49pm]

mjscarousal said:

PeteSilas said:

damn shame, i used to be the biggest q fan too, now here i am wanting to roll his wheelchair off a dock.

I agree with all your perspectives on Quincy Jones and thank you for being bold enough to share them because I knew people were going to run in here and defend Quincy and of course criticize MJ and MJ fans. Character and intergrity is much more than what you accomplish. Your character defines who you are. When you called Q a bullshitter you were referring to the way he treats people, his character, not his music abilities or talents but again for some people that precedes more than character, it doesn't for me. At the end of the day regardless of how MJ felt behind close doors about Quincy, Michael never publicly disrespected or defamed Quincy the way Quincy DID him. The point you made about Elvis was spot on too but you have to remember Elvis was a White man, not only a White but the Great White Hope for Whites. People are not going to be overly critical about his life and behaviors compared to MJ because of that reason. Its always a double standard when it comes to MJ. He is an easy target to be criticized. It always amazes that people can shit on Michael but they can still be defended lol I knew right away people were going to run in here and say "Quincy a legend he deserves respect for what he did producing MJ albums" negating all the hateful and disrespectful things he has said about MJ over the years which is the only thing being put in questioned. Its almost as if because Quincy is a legend people feel its okay for him to be disrespectful, that is the sad part. I dont give a damn if he produce Michael's first 3 albums or if he is a legend, he is a shitty person and a shitty friend, period.

[Edited 7/31/17 12:49pm]

You're so stuck on Quincy Jones just like u and a wave of Michael's current following have crapped on that mans family for the past 30 uears for absolutely nothing, Jermaine, Janet, Rebbie, Randy, all if them get crapped by his following because of MJs false image.....

Lisa Marie and Debbie Rowe have been attacked after they backed out of the false image

Everything, everything that has been associated with his life and career post Thriller has been marred

The kid he had in his pepsi commercial in 1987, ala Jimmy Safechuck.......dead end

Now this Robson cat who testified on his behalf in 2005....dead end

John Landis, who directed the greatest video of all time, after doing an interview saying how he grew mad about the way Michael was trying to change his body, MJ didnt speak to him for two years......dead end

Fans calling Ola Ray a crackhead because she was sad of the way Michael destroyed his life with all the surgery......dead end

Even the esteem journalist, the late Ed Bradley was attacked by fans after that interview with MJ during that 2003 interview on 60 minutes

It's all rooted in his transformation when if u take thar out the mix, 95 percent of the talk about Michael would not exist and it would have been all about the music

He was a beautiful person the way he was and if he had embraced that, the media would not have been able to get to him

[Edited 7/31/17 18:18pm]

maybe, maybe not. In Q's bio there was one guy who said that quincy's success really exceeded his talent, I forget who it was, but I think they also mentioned his social skills being the key. Quite humble for quincy to allow that kind of opinion in his bio. What could quincy do exactly? he was known as a horrible trumpet player (not that I would know what a great trumpet player is) I've seen him pick at the piano and it's nothing impressive. He can't sing. So, that leaves his compositional skill, his knowledge of various forms of music, I think he is frankly a genius in that area. But I still believe his biggest talent is as a bullshitter as a people person. I see it as insincere, I mentioned he was in seattle showing great interest in the small time musicians here, but you have to ask yourself, who's he doing that kind of thing for? I think he does it strictly for ego. Some guys have that gift, they'll steal the undwear off of you and have you thanking them for it. The Michael statements came at a bad time and they didn't make any sense, even if they were true, it doesn't matter. Hell, Elvis' manager is hated by many of his fans too and there are legitimate reasons for it but even as cold and hardhearted that guy was, he never said a bad thing publicly about elvis, never. And he could have said a lot of things.

namepeace said:

PeteSilas said:

scorp, i know all about the man, i'd probably still be a fan if he hadn't made all those comments. I stand by my statement, michael just gave him more juice, the record company didn't even like the idea of him as producer, which i'm sure you know. His biggest talent is as a social animal and a bullshitter, that's his biggest talent. No doubt he's great though but i'm no longer a fan.

You know better than that. That's your anger at QJ getting to you. Set the personal stuff aside.

Working with MJ did for Quincy was made him boatloads of money, and as you indicated, helped build a bridge for his career to flourish in the MTV Age. This is because MJ was like no other artist QJ had ever worked with before. He was a singular talent.

By the same token . . . Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad don't become the legendary albums they became without Quincy Jones. MJ was already a seasoned veteran by the time they got together, and as Scorp said, MJ had learned so much from other great professionals. But QJ was, and is, as singular a talent as a producer and arranger as MJ was a singer-writer and entertainer.

There are those who think MJ was just a studio creation of QJ. That's not true.

But MJ fanatics would like people to believe QJ was along for the ride. That's equally as ridiculous.

Those albums are such monumental achievements that there's more than enough credit to go around. To both giants.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree with all your perspectives on Quincy Jones and thank you for being bold enough to share them because I knew people were going to run in here and defend Quincy and of course criticize MJ and MJ fans. Character and intergrity is much more than what you accomplish. Your character defines who you are. When you called Q a bullshitter you were referring to the way he treats people, his character, not his music abilities or talents but again for some people that precedes more than character, it doesn't for me. At the end of the day regardless of how MJ felt behind close doors about Quincy, Michael never publicly disrespected or defamed Quincy the way Quincy DID him. The point you made about Elvis was spot on too but you have to remember Elvis was a White man, not only a White but the Great White Hope for Whites. People are not going to be overly critical about his life and behaviors compared to MJ because of that reason. Its always a double standard when it comes to MJ. He is an easy target to be criticized. It always amazes that people can shit on Michael but they can still be defended lol I knew right away people were going to run in here and say "Quincy a legend he deserves respect for what he did producing MJ albums" negating all the hateful and disrespectful things he has said about MJ over the years which is the only thing being put in questioned. Its almost as if because Quincy is a legend people feel its okay for him to be disrespectful, that is the sad part. I dont give a damn if he produce Michael's first 3 albums or if he is a legend, he is a shitty person and a shitty friend, period.

[Edited 7/31/17 12:49pm]

You're so stuck on Quincy Jones just like u and a wave of Michael's current following have crapped on that mans family for the past 30 uears for absolutely nothing, Jermaine, Janet, Rebbie, Randy, all if them get crapped by his following because of MJs false image.....

Lisa Marie and Debbie Rowe have been attacked after they backed out of the false image

Everything, everything that has been associated with his life and career post Thriller has been marred

The kid he had in his pepsi commercial in 1987, ala Jimmy Safechuck.......dead end

Now this Robson cat who testified on his behalf in 2005....dead end

John Landis, who directed the greatest video of all time, after doing an interview saying how he grew mad about the way Michael was trying to change his body, MJ didnt speak to him for two years......dead end

Fans calling Ola Ray a crackhead because she was sad of the way Michael destroyed his life with all the surgery......dead end

Even the esteem journalist, the late Ed Bradley was attacked by fans after that interview with MJ during that 2003 interview on 60 minutes

It's all rooted in his transformation when if u take thar out the mix, 95 percent of the talk about Michael would not exist and it would have been all about the music

He was a beautiful person the way he was and if he had embraced that, the media would not have been able to get to him

[Edited 7/31/17 18:18pm]

No

If he didn't have a dysfunctional childhood and a physically and emotionally abusive father he probably would not have grew into an emotionally damaged man. His father didn't tell him he was beautiful and that is probably why he didn't think he was. His father told him he was Ugly, "God you are so ugly" (this is what a father said to HIS child everyday) and you sit here and say that he should have embraced his beauty when from a toddler into teenhood Michaels father constantly told him he was ugly and inadequate????? I see you want to re-write history and blame everything on MJ because of your mental instability. EVERYTHING is all Michael's fault according to you and nobody has done anything questionable to him, keep being delusional hater.

[Edited 8/1/17 3:55am]

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

You're so stuck on Quincy Jones just like u and a wave of Michael's current following have crapped on that mans family for the past 30 uears for absolutely nothing, Jermaine, Janet, Rebbie, Randy, all if them get crapped by his following because of MJs false image.....

Lisa Marie and Debbie Rowe have been attacked after they backed out of the false image

Everything, everything that has been associated with his life and career post Thriller has been marred

The kid he had in his pepsi commercial in 1987, ala Jimmy Safechuck.......dead end

Now this Robson cat who testified on his behalf in 2005....dead end

John Landis, who directed the greatest video of all time, after doing an interview saying how he grew mad about the way Michael was trying to change his body, MJ didnt speak to him for two years......dead end

Fans calling Ola Ray a crackhead because she was sad of the way Michael destroyed his life with all the surgery......dead end

Even the esteem journalist, the late Ed Bradley was attacked by fans after that interview with MJ during that 2003 interview on 60 minutes

It's all rooted in his transformation when if u take thar out the mix, 95 percent of the talk about Michael would not exist and it would have been all about the music

He was a beautiful person the way he was and if he had embraced that, the media would not have been able to get to him

[Edited 7/31/17 18:18pm]

No

If he didn't have a dysfunctional childhood and a physically and emotionally abusive father he probably would not have grew into an emotionally damaged man. His father didn't tell him he was beautiful and that is probably why he didn't think he was. His father told him he was Ugly, "God you are so ugly" (this is what a father said to HIS child everyday) and you sit here and say that he should have embraced his beauty when from a toddler into teenhood Michaels father constantly told him he was ugly and inadequate????? I see you want to re-write history and blame everything on MJ because of your mental instability. EVERYTHING is all Michael's fault according to you and nobody has done anything questionable to him, keep being delusional hater.

[Edited 8/1/17 3:55am]

ahhhhh

the art of media manipulation......

when Oprah asked him in that interview in 1993 about whether he started having plastic surgery was because he didn't like the way he looked during his teenage years...his exact words were "no not really, it's no big deal"........and he was not the only Jackson to be pushed to change their look...the majority of the family act, including the matriarch and patriach underwent some sort of surgery during that time

nobody was talking this stuff about beatdowns and abuse during OTW and Thriller when sales were meeting expectations......this narrative did not kick in until 1988-1989.......and there's no way his father said that to him every single day.....that's media manipulation kicked in into overdrive

nobody was talking dysfunctionality during the years of Jackson Five prominence, the real dysfunction is how influence w/in a high profiled industry based on image building pushes people to contort their being to gain what they perceive to be the targeted mode of acceptance

when his sister was trying to attain the same level of fame he had, she claimed sexual abuse at the hands of her father (and I know right off jump street that wasn't true, that went through one ear and then went out the other), and then 10 years later by 1995, she refuted her own claims and said none of that was true and said she was coerced to say all that stuff

Joe Jackson was not perfect as no parent is, and he didn't take no stuff off his children, yeah, he was overbearing at times, and he made mistakes...no doubt about it, but this current narrative over the years has gone beyond the realm of natural decorum and entered this state of the point of no return

if Joe Jackson was not invested in the careers of his sons allowed them to remain a teenage act, as Tito Jackson said in that Jackson American Dream movie "they won't have any use for us, they're gonna just overdub us anyway"...if Joe Jackson didn't encourage them to grow professionally.......there never would have been a Enjoy Yourself or Show You The Way to Go, there would not have been a Destiny album or Triumph Album, and there would not have been an OTW album by the end of the 70s.......

When Thriller was released in 1982 and through 1983, Michael Jackson stood and presented himself as a grown man, which is a major reason why he garnered the support of a wave of adult record buyers to help that album become the greatest selling ever, it wasn't just kids and teenagers who bought that.........

[Edited 8/1/17 4:49am]