liljojo said:

Thank you everybody and everyone for your posts and point of views. With that being said, I'm glad to have gained knowledge and insight from that time period. Didn't mean for the Elvis thing to be so heavy in discussion but I wanted to read some opinions and like I said earlier no matter how much evidence you bring up once the older generation have made a decision it's a wrap. Only the youth will be more open to hearing all sides as we are still growing and learning. But Elvis generation within the black community will never see him as black rights musical Icon. Same thing for black artists also, look at Michael Jordan great NBA star outside of that he's considered a coon. Elvis stardom started when racism tension was extremely still high.

Prince on using the word SLAVE: Although I understand what he was trying to say I believe SWEATSHOP industry should have been used but he's not a politically correct person or journalist neither am I but the music is industry like other industries are built on sweatshop mentality. ThePanther, now that I got a chance to look completely over your post, I missed that wendy's or low level executive comment. I won't read much into it but if you ever debate racism in USA against the black community please don't say that wendy's line as that will be taken as a very racist statement and depending on the person will land you in a verbal or physical fight because all they heard was "if Prince wasn't on a contract he would be a poor black fool at wendy's or a black person barely graduating from college and get a the lowest level job." But I get your point and will leave it there. Prince was not a slave neither was MJ.

As for MJ and Prince only fighting when they got their big paydays and was losing steam in the industry is somewhat true. What a lot of us not understanding is generation X and my generation was growing up to believe that the only way to make money was to get a big contract deal with a big time Record companines. What a lot of people don't know is before Prince and MJ went public or was losing steam they did help others in private throughout the late 80's and 90's. Jay-Z, Puff Daddy, Jennifer Lopez, Eddie Murphy, The Wayans family, MC Hammer, Master P, and more have all said that Prince, MJ, Quincy Jones, Oprah, George Lucas, and some others gave them guidance through the entertainment industry. That's why the 90's became the open black star millionaires decade. Prince used to hold parties sometimes to talk about how to sell music online as the internet in the 90's was blossoming and still growing today. Michael did his best to help Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Usher, Will Smith, and some others about the industry and how not to look to the record company to network your talent and not to sign contracts to the point you can't get paid off of your own hardwork. Something he learned from James Brown. Also before you go public and fight you need to have some kind name recognition and a history to show you have experience in the area you trying to tell the people about. Would you listen to Vanilla Ice trying to tell you about LA gangs? Would you listen to Jason Whitlock tell you about self health? Remove the fame and experience from Prince and MJ and the majority wouldn't listen to them at all. Society have taught us that if you're not rice and famous not to listen to you and if you tell the truth to attack first and maybe listen when the artist is dead.

Payola Comment: This is actually as old as the music record label industry. It's illegal but you know that didn't stop radio stations from receiving a lot of money to play records. Payola is the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest, and thanks to the internet Payola is no longer relevant to have a hit record. I'm not going to pay you millions for what I can do myself online through social media (Facebook, Youtube, DailyMotion, SnapChat, Instagram to name a few). But back in the days the radio DJ's made a lot of money off this and so did James Brown who brought a lot of radio stations himself. James made a lot of money off this which leads to the reason his first band didn't understand why they wasn't being paid. Payola was very much the reason for artists careers outside of BET MTV VH1 music shows. Lou Rawls said "Janet Jackson outside me? I can sing better than that bitch". But Janet having the looks, MJ help, and Payola behind her career became a huge success.

My views on race: My view on the matter of everything is, like any business in the USA when it comes to the black community especially black men, we are looked at as the lowest piece of shit in parts of the USA. I have yet to see any artist get put in jail for speaking out for equality for his own race like Cassius Clay was. All they taught back then and showed back then was that the only thing black people was good for was picking cotton, taking orders from a white man, being pimps and hoes, drug dealers and other illegal activity, and mentally retarded humans. Then in the 80's we was seen as only entertainment puppets whether it was acting, sports, or interns. A lot of people say well go back to Africa if you feel that way, and due to rape and race mixing I can now in 2017 tell y'all the same. Not until White men and White women started having black babies did race start becoming more important to the lighter complexion community. So anybody that feels being black back then was so easy or easy still in USA are you willing to trade your white skin to that of a darker complexion? Are you willing to be screamed at " sing you dirty ni66er" and respond "yes sir master, i dance you master". I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's. Being rich and black doesn't remove you from being black and people being racist in America towards you. Oprah just experienced a racist woman telling her she doesn't have enough money to buy the bag she was looking at. I don't agree that the word SLAVE should have been used by Prince but I understood what he was trying to say. Every business have their sweatshop ways with the healthcare industry being highest. Now outside of the USA, black people have a pretty much fair playground. If it wasn't for me going outside of the USA to canada, south america, Paris, and Italy I wouldn't know how it feels to not be followed by cops or looked at as if I'm going to rob or shoot someone or like a piece of shit. So racism against blacks is really not a global thing, thank the heavenly father. If it wasn't for Jane Elliott I would think no matter how many explaination good blacks from MLK to others have explained and showed, white americans would never understand. If it wasn't for racism, sex, and drugs Hip-Hop wouldn't be so violent and degrading. If it wasn't people like the herd black puppet like Jason Whitlock then we can move forward and heal. It's sad that blacks are now seen as a fashion phase like the movie Get Out showed.

Now if you want to challendge my opinion and views, come with it. And please don't try telling me how to live as a black man in america if you're not a black male or a mother of a black male. Outside of that I don't mind hearing you all views on what I just posted.

[Edited 6/10/17 19:44pm]

[Edited 6/10/17 23:18pm]

I agree hun but your not going to get any authentic and intellectual discussions on this predominately White site. Don't let the critcisms get to ya!

I find it comical people are really stanning for Elvis and making him seem like the Great White Hope for Black folks in this thread. Elvis did not give not one damn about us. He didn't build no music schools for us and he damn sure did not pay any of his Black songwriters that wrote all his music so they can miss me with that bullshit. He did not advocate for ANY of the Black musicians and performers he copied. During the 1950's (racially divided and segregated period for Black musicians and Black people) that would have meant a lot. I have yet to see any evidence of it in this thread but they LOVE to have so much criticism for MJ and Prince who actually did advocate and promote Black performers/artists, so dont pay these people no mind.

[Edited 6/12/17 13:15pm]

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said:

liljojo said:

Thank you everybody and everyone for your posts and point of views. With that being said, I'm glad to have gained knowledge and insight from that time period. Didn't mean for the Elvis thing to be so heavy in discussion but I wanted to read some opinions and like I said earlier no matter how much evidence you bring up once the older generation have made a decision it's a wrap. Only the youth will be more open to hearing all sides as we are still growing and learning. But Elvis generation within the black community will never see him as black rights musical Icon. Same thing for black artists also, look at Michael Jordan great NBA star outside of that he's considered a coon. Elvis stardom started when racism tension was extremely still high.

Prince on using the word SLAVE: Although I understand what he was trying to say I believe SWEATSHOP industry should have been used but he's not a politically correct person or journalist neither am I but the music is industry like other industries are built on sweatshop mentality. ThePanther, now that I got a chance to look completely over your post, I missed that wendy's or low level executive comment. I won't read much into it but if you ever debate racism in USA against the black community please don't say that wendy's line as that will be taken as a very racist statement and depending on the person will land you in a verbal or physical fight because all they heard was "if Prince wasn't on a contract he would be a poor black fool at wendy's or a black person barely graduating from college and get a the lowest level job." But I get your point and will leave it there. Prince was not a slave neither was MJ.

As for MJ and Prince only fighting when they got their big paydays and was losing steam in the industry is somewhat true. What a lot of us not understanding is generation X and my generation was growing up to believe that the only way to make money was to get a big contract deal with a big time Record companines. What a lot of people don't know is before Prince and MJ went public or was losing steam they did help others in private throughout the late 80's and 90's. Jay-Z, Puff Daddy, Jennifer Lopez, Eddie Murphy, The Wayans family, MC Hammer, Master P, and more have all said that Prince, MJ, Quincy Jones, Oprah, George Lucas, and some others gave them guidance through the entertainment industry. That's why the 90's became the open black star millionaires decade. Prince used to hold parties sometimes to talk about how to sell music online as the internet in the 90's was blossoming and still growing today. Michael did his best to help Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Usher, Will Smith, and some others about the industry and how not to look to the record company to network your talent and not to sign contracts to the point you can't get paid off of your own hardwork. Something he learned from James Brown. Also before you go public and fight you need to have some kind name recognition and a history to show you have experience in the area you trying to tell the people about. Would you listen to Vanilla Ice trying to tell you about LA gangs? Would you listen to Jason Whitlock tell you about self health? Remove the fame and experience from Prince and MJ and the majority wouldn't listen to them at all. Society have taught us that if you're not rice and famous not to listen to you and if you tell the truth to attack first and maybe listen when the artist is dead.

Payola Comment: This is actually as old as the music record label industry. It's illegal but you know that didn't stop radio stations from receiving a lot of money to play records. Payola is the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest, and thanks to the internet Payola is no longer relevant to have a hit record. I'm not going to pay you millions for what I can do myself online through social media (Facebook, Youtube, DailyMotion, SnapChat, Instagram to name a few). But back in the days the radio DJ's made a lot of money off this and so did James Brown who brought a lot of radio stations himself. James made a lot of money off this which leads to the reason his first band didn't understand why they wasn't being paid. Payola was very much the reason for artists careers outside of BET MTV VH1 music shows. Lou Rawls said "Janet Jackson outside me? I can sing better than that bitch". But Janet having the looks, MJ help, and Payola behind her career became a huge success.

My views on race: My view on the matter of everything is, like any business in the USA when it comes to the black community especially black men, we are looked at as the lowest piece of shit in parts of the USA. I have yet to see any artist get put in jail for speaking out for equality for his own race like Cassius Clay was. All they taught back then and showed back then was that the only thing black people was good for was picking cotton, taking orders from a white man, being pimps and hoes, drug dealers and other illegal activity, and mentally retarded humans. Then in the 80's we was seen as only entertainment puppets whether it was acting, sports, or interns. A lot of people say well go back to Africa if you feel that way, and due to rape and race mixing I can now in 2017 tell y'all the same. Not until White men and White women started having black babies did race start becoming more important to the lighter complexion community. So anybody that feels being black back then was so easy or easy still in USA are you willing to trade your white skin to that of a darker complexion? Are you willing to be screamed at " sing you dirty ni66er" and respond "yes sir master, i dance you master". I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's. Being rich and black doesn't remove you from being black and people being racist in America towards you. Oprah just experienced a racist woman telling her she doesn't have enough money to buy the bag she was looking at. I don't agree that the word SLAVE should have been used by Prince but I understood what he was trying to say. Every business have their sweatshop ways with the healthcare industry being highest. Now outside of the USA, black people have a pretty much fair playground. If it wasn't for me going outside of the USA to canada, south america, Paris, and Italy I wouldn't know how it feels to not be followed by cops or looked at as if I'm going to rob or shoot someone or like a piece of shit. So racism against blacks is really not a global thing, thank the heavenly father. If it wasn't for Jane Elliott I would think no matter how many explaination good blacks from MLK to others have explained and showed, white americans would never understand. If it wasn't for racism, sex, and drugs Hip-Hop wouldn't be so violent and degrading. If it wasn't people like the herd black puppet like Jason Whitlock then we can move forward and heal. It's sad that blacks are now seen as a fashion phase like the movie Get Out showed.

Now if you want to challendge my opinion and views, come with it. And please don't try telling me how to live as a black man in america if you're not a black male or a mother of a black male. Outside of that I don't mind hearing you all views on what I just posted.

[Edited 6/10/17 19:44pm]

[Edited 6/10/17 23:18pm]

I agree hun but your not going to get any authentic and intellectual discussions on this predominately White site. Don't let the critcisms get to ya!

I find it comical people are really stanning for Elvis and making him seem like the Great White Hope for Black folks in this thread. Elvis did not give not one damn about us. He didn't build no music schools for us and he damn sure did not pay any of his Black songwriters that wrote all his music so they can miss me with that bullshit. He did not advocate for ANY of the Black musicians and performers he copied. During the 1950's (racially divided and segregated period for Black musicians and Black people) that would have meant a lot. I have yet to see any evidence of it in this thread but they LOVE to have so much criticism for MJ and Prince who actually did advocate and promote Black performers/artists, so dont pay these people no mind.

[Edited 6/12/17 13:15pm]

Well, I'm Black, and I think you're not being honest here: nobody ever, in this thread, made it
seem like Elvis Presley was the Great White Hope for Black folks. You pulled that straight outta
yer butthole, Carousal, and I know you did because I posted history which tells us Elvis Presley
did not like being called the King of Rock N Roll and deferred to Fats Domino. You continue to
present Prince and Michael Jackson as these recording artists who were chiefly concerned with
advocating for Black performers and artists but they were not; they were out to get their own first,
and once their relationships with the recording industry began to sour (coincidentally alongside
their waning popularity and the dramatic paradigm shift within the recording industry), they then
became vocal advocates for recording artists having more freedom.

Get your story straight, and you're the last person in this message board who ought to be criticizing
someone for being a "stan" as anytime the surname "Jackson" is mentioned, you fall flat on your
face in full reverential worship.

Dasein said:

ThePanther said:

liljojo said:

I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's.

I didn't say any such thing.

If you're going to go off on a rant against another poster, you should at least try to read and understand what that person said.

Just so you know I wasn't doing a rant at you, I don't do rants online.
Next, I never said (ThePanther said) nowhere in that highlighted sentence or placed words on you that you didn't say. You posted the junior highschool education sarcastic remark towards me and I just said that's not junior highschool education and put your name on there so you won't sue me for copyright infringement.

What I did call you out on that you smartly refuse to respond to is these low level jobs (Wendy's, or low level music executive comment) and which I could have taken as because Prince is a black man he's only smart enough for low level low paying jobs, but I said I understand what you are trying to say. So to say I didn't try to understand your post is not true and you are reaching when you don't have to. Your post never made me mad or anything. I appreciate your views and posts I'm not going to fuss anybody out for having a different opinion or views than mine. So take your own advice and try to read and understand what I'm saying before casting judgement. Or do you think I'm below you because my grammar mistakes on a online board bothers too much to read?

Side note: If my grammar is off on this post........ sorry and again ThePanther I appreciate your posts and I'm not mad because the views you said was misleading wasn't my views. Those was Prince and MJ views so that's why I didn't take offense. I posted videos so you can see it's not my views and even explained how I felt personally including not using the word slave but sweatshop. I'm one of the most understanding posters and human. Hell I'm catching hell right now because I don't agree with Bill Maher being a called racist.

Now I said my piece on Elvis and I don't know Elvis that's why I used opinions from people that was alive in his generation because I don't know. MJ I do know did A LOT for the black community in the background. A lot of these HBCU's and NAACP got boat loads of money from him to the point I don't understand why he gave so much. Prince also did too, but I know sooner or later somebody going to say the Alexander O'Neal line "Prince was only black when it benefits him" which I don't know. Game on, got to go brb

Whats so wrong in saying that MJ and Princ advocated for Black people that were marginalized in their music and projects? Its almost like yall get mad that these artists did this and stood up for something. Yall are weird. In saying that does not mean that they did not also care about their music and their careers but YES they did do it and that is partially apart of their legacy as well and I will ALWAYS speak on it because a lot of artists didn't do what they did.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:21pm]

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree hun but your not going to get any authentic and intellectual discussions on this predominately White site. Don't let the critcisms get to ya!

I find it comical people are really stanning for Elvis and making him seem like the Great White Hope for Black folks in this thread. Elvis did not give not one damn about us. He didn't build no music schools for us and he damn sure did not pay any of his Black songwriters that wrote all his music so they can miss me with that bullshit. He did not advocate for ANY of the Black musicians and performers he copied. During the 1950's (racially divided and segregated period for Black musicians and Black people) that would have meant a lot. I have yet to see any evidence of it in this thread but they LOVE to have so much criticism for MJ and Prince who actually did advocate and promote Black performers/artists, so dont pay these people no mind.

[Edited 6/12/17 13:15pm]

It sounds as if you lack a basic understanding of how the music business works, particularly the songwriting aspect of it. As most of Elvis's songs were written by others, and many were covers of previously released works, the songwriters would receive broadcast royalties (for radio and TV airplay) and mechanical royalties (for sales on a record) for their songs recorded by Elvis. He never claimed to actually write these songs. And you can imagine that having your songs recorded by someone as popular as Elvis could be quite lucrative. However, I suspect that nothing short of Elvis moving out of Graceland, and moving in 10 Black families rent free would have ever satisfied you

I understand how it works but you continue to miss my point. This is not about the music industry. This is about your implication that Elvis Presley was an advocator for Black musicians during this period.

If Elvis was this big advocator for Black musicians, why didn't he advocate that these Black songwriters were properly credited for their work? A lot of these songwriters got NO credit and no royalities at all during this period. It sounds like you keep negating the racism and bigotry that inflicted African Americans and Black musicians during this period. Regardless of what you say, Elvis HAD the clout to make a difference in this racially charge era that marginalized Black musicians.

YOU can continue to think Elvis was this Great White hope for Black musicians in the 1950s (when he didn't do nothing for Black musicians) and we can agree to disagree.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:18pm]

liljojo said:

ThePanther said:

I didn't say any such thing.

If you're going to go off on a rant against another poster, you should at least try to read and understand what that person said.

Just so you know I wasn't doing a rant at you, I don't do rants online.
Next, I never said (ThePanther said) nowhere in that highlighted sentence or placed words on you that you didn't say. You posted the junior highschool education sarcastic remark towards me and I just said that's not junior highschool education and put your name on there so you won't sue me for copyright infringement.

What I did call you out on that you smartly refuse to respond to is these low level jobs (Wendy's, or low level music executive comment) and which I could have taken as because Prince is a black man he's only smart enough for low level low paying jobs, but I said I understand what you are trying to say. So to say I didn't try to understand your post is not true and you are reaching when you don't have to. Your post never made me mad or anything. I appreciate your views and posts I'm not going to fuss anybody out for having a different opinion or views than mine. So take your own advice and try to read and understand what I'm saying before casting judgement. Or do you think I'm below you because my grammar mistakes on a online board bothers too much to read?

Side note: If my grammar is off on this post........ sorry and again ThePanther I appreciate your posts and I'm not mad because the views you said was misleading wasn't my views. Those was Prince and MJ views so that's why I didn't take offense. I posted videos so you can see it's not my views and even explained how I felt personally including not using the word slave but sweatshop. I'm one of the most understanding posters and human. Hell I'm catching hell right now because I don't agree with Bill Maher being a called racist.

Now I said my piece on Elvis and I don't know Elvis that's why I used opinions from people that was alive in his generation because I don't know. MJ I do know did A LOT for the black community in the background. A lot of these HBCU's and NAACP got boat loads of money from him to the point I don't understand why he gave so much. Prince also did too, but I know sooner or later somebody going to say the Alexander O'Neal line "Prince was only black when it benefits him" which I don't know. Game on, got to go brb

Exactly. These people commenting don't know all what MJ did for Black people and urban youth (donated Millions of dollars of causes, charities, scholarships, etc). I am shocked to see them throwing their own (Prince) under the bus and defending (Elvis) whose whole career was a white wash version of Black talent and he did not give nothing back to Black musicans. I dont care if they get mad at what I have to say, its the truth. Im shocked to see them caping for him on this site. They can like him but to imply he advocated and stood up for the Black musicians during the 1950 is COMPLETE exaggeration.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:28pm]

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said: It sounds as if you lack a basic understanding of how the music business works, particularly the songwriting aspect of it. As most of Elvis's songs were written by others, and many were covers of previously released works, the songwriters would receive broadcast royalties (for radio and TV airplay) and mechanical royalties (for sales on a record) for their songs recorded by Elvis. He never claimed to actually write these songs. And you can imagine that having your songs recorded by someone as popular as Elvis could be quite lucrative. However, I suspect that nothing short of Elvis moving out of Graceland, and moving in 10 Black families rent free would have ever satisfied you

I understand how it works but you continue to miss my point. This is not about the music industry. This is about your implication that Elvis Presley was an advocator for Black musicians during this period.

If Elvis was this big advocator for Black musicians, why didn't he advocate that these Black songwriters were properly credited for their work? A lot of these songwriters got NO credit and no royalities at all during this period. It sounds like you keep negating the racism and bigotry that inflicted African Americans and Black musicians during this period. Regardless of what you say, Elvis HAD the clout to make a difference in this racially charge era that marginalized Black musicians.

YOU can continue to think Elvis was this Great White hope for Black musicians in the 1950s (when he didn't do nothing for Black musicians) and we can agree to disagree.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:18pm]

I'm not negating the racism that existed then, or now, at all. Those Black (and white- such as Leiber and Stoller, who wrote many Elvis hits) WERE credited for their works . Elvis never claimed he wrote those songs, so HE wasn't ripping them off. Many Black musicians- from BB King to Fats Domino to Howlin Wolf, credited Elvis for opening the "mainstream" (read White) market to Rock and Roll and Rhythm music, He did a lot in that regard, and gave a lot of credit to his influences, but obviously not enough to satisfy you 60 years later

mjscarousal said:

Whats so wrong in saying that MJ and Princ advocated for Black people that were marginalized in their music and projects? Its almost like yall get mad that these artists did this and stood up for something. Yall are weird. In saying that does not mean that they did not also care about their music and their careers but YES they did do it and that is partially apart of their legacy as well and I will ALWAYS speak on it because a lot of artists didn't do what they did.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:21pm]

This is another misdirection on your part: just like nobody is making Elvis Presley seem like the
Great White Hope for Black people, nobody is mad that Prince and Michael Jackson advocated, at
some point in their careers, for the rights of recording artists as a whole while writing songs that
addressed social inequality.

We are pointing out two things to you:

1) Prince and Michael Jackson were not chiefly concerned with advocating for anybody else but
themselves.

2) Elvis Presley should not be criticized for being called the King of Rock N Roll when he a) didn't
like being called that and b) deferred to those Black American recording artists who influenced him;
and, he should not be criticized for not advocating more strenuously for Black American recording
artists as it is not ethically or practically incumbent upon him to have done so.

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

I understand how it works but you continue to miss my point. This is not about the music industry. This is about your implication that Elvis Presley was an advocator for Black musicians during this period.

If Elvis was this big advocator for Black musicians, why didn't he advocate that these Black songwriters were properly credited for their work? A lot of these songwriters got NO credit and no royalities at all during this period. It sounds like you keep negating the racism and bigotry that inflicted African Americans and Black musicians during this period. Regardless of what you say, Elvis HAD the clout to make a difference in this racially charge era that marginalized Black musicians.

YOU can continue to think Elvis was this Great White hope for Black musicians in the 1950s (when he didn't do nothing for Black musicians) and we can agree to disagree.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:18pm]

I'm not negating the racism that existed then, or now, at all. Those Black (and white- such as Leiber and Stoller, who wrote many Elvis hits) WERE credited for their works . Elvis never claimed he wrote those songs, so HE wasn't ripping them off. Many Black musicians- from BB King to Fats Domino to Howlin Wolf, credited Elvis for opening the "mainstream" (read White) market to Rock and Roll and Rhythm music, He did a lot in that regard, and gave a lot of credit to his influences, but obviously not enough to satisfy you 60 years later

Agreed.

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Whats so wrong in saying that MJ and Princ advocated for Black people that were marginalized in their music and projects? Its almost like yall get mad that these artists did this and stood up for something. Yall are weird. In saying that does not mean that they did not also care about their music and their careers but YES they did do it and that is partially apart of their legacy as well and I will ALWAYS speak on it because a lot of artists didn't do what they did.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:21pm]

This is another misdirection on your part: just like nobody is making Elvis Presley seem like the
Great White Hope for Black people, nobody is mad that Prince and Michael Jackson advocated, at
some point in their careers, for the rights of recording artists as a whole while writing songs that
addressed social inequality.

We are pointing out two things to you:

1) Prince and Michael Jackson were not chiefly concerned with advocating for anybody else but
themselves.

2) Elvis Presley should not be criticized for being called the King of Rock N Roll when he a) didn't
like being called that and b) deferred to those Black American recording artists who influenced him;
and, he should not be criticized for not advocating more strenuously for Black American recording
artists as it is not ethically or practically incumbent upon him to have done so.

This is not true.

You argued that I implied MJ and Prince spent their whole entire career as advocators and (didn't care about anything else or their own careers )and I NEVER said that.

WHERE did I say that this is all they cared about in their careers? I never said that, however, minimizing their efforts and contributions as advocators for social justice is just as "misdirected" and biased which some of you all have shown through out this thread.

Also, I am entitled to my opinion about Elvis. Elvis is very overrated and he did nothing for Black musicains. That is MY opinion which I am entitled to have and yall stanning for him like he the Great White Hope when he was just a water down version of Jackie Wilson is not going to change anything. I have brought legitimate arguments about Elvis that justifies my criticims of him. None of yall have yet to provide anything he has done for Black musicians. But yall got so much b.s. to say about MJ and Prince.

This thread is a joke, seriously.

[Edited 6/13/17 7:17am]

mjscarousal said:

This thread is a joke, seriously.

[Edited 6/13/17 7:17am]

Finally you got something right.

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

I understand how it works but you continue to miss my point. This is not about the music industry. This is about your implication that Elvis Presley was an advocator for Black musicians during this period.

If Elvis was this big advocator for Black musicians, why didn't he advocate that these Black songwriters were properly credited for their work? A lot of these songwriters got NO credit and no royalities at all during this period. It sounds like you keep negating the racism and bigotry that inflicted African Americans and Black musicians during this period. Regardless of what you say, Elvis HAD the clout to make a difference in this racially charge era that marginalized Black musicians.

YOU can continue to think Elvis was this Great White hope for Black musicians in the 1950s (when he didn't do nothing for Black musicians) and we can agree to disagree.

[Edited 6/12/17 21:18pm]

I'm not negating the racism that existed then, or now, at all. Those Black (and white- such as Leiber and Stoller, who wrote many Elvis hits) WERE credited for their works . Elvis never claimed he wrote those songs, so HE wasn't ripping them off. Many Black musicians- from BB King to Fats Domino to Howlin Wolf, credited Elvis for opening the "mainstream" (read White) market to Rock and Roll and Rhythm music, He did a lot in that regard, and gave a lot of credit to his influences, but obviously not enough to satisfy you 60 years later

There are Black songwriters that were NOT credited for writing his songs. I have seen documentaries and research about his hits and even his unknown songs. Not ALL those Black songwriters were credited.

I never said he ripped off or took credit. I said that he was a white wash version of Black talent and he copied mostly from Black musicians and performers. Given that they largely influenced him he could have advocated more for them. It would have greatly benefited them. There are many of those era rock n roll pioneers that also note Elvis was not the real King of Rock n Roll and they discuss the racism that went into his success.You have minimized the impact of racism and discrimination in the success of Elvis. That is a LARGE reason why he was able to copy Black musicians and performers and be more successful than them.

You still don't know what it means to truly advocate for someone. I have given you examples of what true advocating is so why do you keep arguing that Elvis being influenced by Black musicians is the same? Why do you keep saying what other Black musicians have said about Elvis? Stevie praised Drake and John Legend does that mean they are great legendary artists too!??? You are being very biased in this discussion. I HAVE acknowledged that Elvis was influenced by Black musicians.....but that is not the same as adovcating. Advocating means to actually DO SOMETHING, risk something, by using your platform and resources to stand up for somebody/group (who don't have a voice). Elvis did not do that.

Lets just agree to disagree.

ThePanther said:

mjscarousal said:

This thread is a joke, seriously.

[Edited 6/13/17 7:17am]

Finally you got something right.

Not so much the thread topic but these comments.

They are being overly critical about two Black artists that advocated for other Black artists and social causes but instead they defend a White man who did nothing for Black people, musicians or social causes.

This thread is a joke.

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

This is another misdirection on your part: just like nobody is making Elvis Presley seem like the
Great White Hope for Black people, nobody is mad that Prince and Michael Jackson advocated, at
some point in their careers, for the rights of recording artists as a whole while writing songs that
addressed social inequality.

We are pointing out two things to you:

1) Prince and Michael Jackson were not chiefly concerned with advocating for anybody else but
themselves.

2) Elvis Presley should not be criticized for being called the King of Rock N Roll when he a) didn't
like being called that and b) deferred to those Black American recording artists who influenced him;
and, he should not be criticized for not advocating more strenuously for Black American recording
artists as it is not ethically or practically incumbent upon him to have done so.

This is not true.

You argued that I implied MJ and Prince spent their whole entire career as advocators and (didn't care about anything else or their own careers )and I NEVER said that.

WHERE did I say that this is all they cared about in their careers? I never said that, however, minimizing their efforts and contributions as advocators for social justice is just as "misdirected" and biased which some of you all have shown through out this thread.

Also, I am entitled to my opinion about Elvis. Elvis is very overrated and he did nothing for Black musicains. That is MY opinion which I am entitled to have and yall stanning for him like he the Great White Hope when he was just a water down version of Jackie Wilson is not going to change anything. I have brought legitimate arguments about Elvis that justifies my criticims of him. None of yall have yet to provide anything he has done for Black musicians. But yall got so much b.s. to say about MJ and Prince.

This thread is a joke, seriously.

[Edited 6/13/17 7:17am]

No; I asked that you not make it seem as if Prince and Michael Jackson were initially and mostly
interested in making sure others were good before themselves; and that to frame their gripes with
the record industry as freedom fighting/advocating was merely your martyrizing two of your idols.

Nobody is "stanning" for Elvis Presley; instead, we're telling you that you're criticism of him for not
being the advocate you erroneously think Michael Jackson and Prince were is wrongheaded. I love
Billy Corgan and Elliott Smith; yet, they never argued for the rights of Black recording artists.
Does that mean then that I should criticize them for as much? Of course not! What you're doing
here is wanting to find fault with Presley so you create this standard you think he won't be able to
meet in order to then justify the fault-finding - but, this is really disingenuous on your part. And,
nobody said anything disparaging about Michael Jackson or Prince, so for you to say we "got so
much b.s. to say about" them is another disingenuous misdirection on your part.

And please stop with this "I'm entitled to my opinion" stuff. Of course you're entitled to your opin-
ion, just like someon is entitled to have the opinion that the Earth is flat, not round. But, if you are
entitled to your opinion, then I am likewise entitled to tell you when your opinion is stupid.

mjscarousal said:

ThePanther said:

Finally you got something right.

Not so much the thread topic but these comments.

They are being overly critical about two Black artists that advocated for other Black artists and social causes but instead they defend a White man who did nothing for Black people, musicians or social causes.

This thread is a joke.

This is so fucking ridiculous and not true. And, because you're grasping for straws, or, you don't
understand the arguments I'm offering, now you're trying to frame this discussion as if I'm defend-
ing a white man to the detriment of two Black men who fought for my rights.

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

This is not true.

You argued that I implied MJ and Prince spent their whole entire career as advocators and (didn't care about anything else or their own careers )and I NEVER said that.

WHERE did I say that this is all they cared about in their careers? I never said that, however, minimizing their efforts and contributions as advocators for social justice is just as "misdirected" and biased which some of you all have shown through out this thread.

Also, I am entitled to my opinion about Elvis. Elvis is very overrated and he did nothing for Black musicains. That is MY opinion which I am entitled to have and yall stanning for him like he the Great White Hope when he was just a water down version of Jackie Wilson is not going to change anything. I have brought legitimate arguments about Elvis that justifies my criticims of him. None of yall have yet to provide anything he has done for Black musicians. But yall got so much b.s. to say about MJ and Prince.

This thread is a joke, seriously.

[Edited 6/13/17 7:17am]

No; I asked that you not make it seem as if Prince and Michael Jackson were initially and mostly
interested in making sure others were good before themselves; and that to frame their gripes with
the record industry as freedom fighting/advocating was merely your martyrizing two of your idols.

Nobody is "stanning" for Elvis Presley; instead, we're telling you that you're criticism of him for not
being the advocate you erroneously think Michael Jackson and Prince were is wrongheaded. I love
Billy Corgan and Elliott Smith; yet, they never argued for the rights of Black recording artists.
Does that mean then that I should criticize them for as much? Of course not! What you're doing
here is wanting to find fault with Presley so you create this standard you think he won't be able to
meet in order to then justify the fault-finding - but, this is really disingenuous on your part. And,
nobody said anything disparaging about Michael Jackson or Prince, so for you to say we "got so
much b.s. to say about" them is another disingenuous misdirection on your part.

And please stop with this "I'm entitled to my opinion" stuff. Of course you're entitled to your opin-
ion, just like someon is entitled to have the opinion that the Earth is flat, not round. But, if you are
entitled to your opinion, then I am likewise entitled to tell you when your opinion is stupid.

You need to read. I never said that BUT they did advocate for Black artists and they DID advocate for social causes and they DID advocate for themselves against the system.

Where is the lie? What is untrue about that? NO lies told.

You keep saying Elvis did all this shit for Black people and still haven't provided any evidence for it. Ya'll are the one martyrizing Elvis as some figure that stood up for Black musicians when he did not.

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Not so much the thread topic but these comments.

They are being overly critical about two Black artists that advocated for other Black artists and social causes but instead they defend a White man who did nothing for Black people, musicians or social causes.

This thread is a joke.

This is so fucking ridiculous and not true. And, because you're grasping for straws, or, you don't
understand the arguments I'm offering, now you're trying to frame this discussion as if I'm defend-
ing a white man to the detriment of two Black men who fought for my rights.

How is this not true???

You keep minimizing all what Prince and MJ did and criticizing them but hyping up Elvis like he did the same as them when he did not.

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

No; I asked that you not make it seem as if Prince and Michael Jackson were initially and mostly
interested in making sure others were good before themselves; and that to frame their gripes with
the record industry as freedom fighting/advocating was merely your martyrizing two of your idols.

Nobody is "stanning" for Elvis Presley; instead, we're telling you that you're criticism of him for not
being the advocate you erroneously think Michael Jackson and Prince were is wrongheaded. I love
Billy Corgan and Elliott Smith; yet, they never argued for the rights of Black recording artists.
Does that mean then that I should criticize them for as much? Of course not! What you're doing
here is wanting to find fault with Presley so you create this standard you think he won't be able to
meet in order to then justify the fault-finding - but, this is really disingenuous on your part. And,
nobody said anything disparaging about Michael Jackson or Prince, so for you to say we "got so
much b.s. to say about" them is another disingenuous misdirection on your part.

And please stop with this "I'm entitled to my opinion" stuff. Of course you're entitled to your opin-
ion, just like someon is entitled to have the opinion that the Earth is flat, not round. But, if you are
entitled to your opinion, then I am likewise entitled to tell you when your opinion is stupid.

You need to read. I never said that BUT they did advocate for Black artists and they DID advocate for social causes and they DID advocate for themselves against the system.

Where is the lie? What is untrue about that? NO lies told.

You keep saying Elvis did all this shit for Black people and still haven't provided any evidence for it. Ya'll are the one martyrizing Elvis as some figure that stood up for Black musicians when he did not.

No, you need to read:

I said that "I've asked that you not make it seem as if. . . "; I never mounted a counter-argument
against you by stating that you had asserted anything.

And here you go again with making shit up:

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

This is so fucking ridiculous and not true. And, because you're grasping for straws, or, you don't
understand the arguments I'm offering, now you're trying to frame this discussion as if I'm defend-
ing a white man to the detriment of two Black men who fought for my rights.

How is this not true???

You keep minimizing all what Prince and MJ did and criticizing them but hyping up Elvis like he did the same as them when he did not.

Carousal, what did I say in this thread that made you believe that I am "hyping up Elvis like he did
the same" as Michael Jackson and Prince? If you're going to make claims like this, you need to
show evidence, so, again, point out anything I said in this thread that could be interpreted as "hyp-
ing up Elvis".

All I've essentially said about Elvis Presley in this thread was:

1) he didn't like being called the King of Rock N Roll; that was the racist white press's doing, not
his own

2) he publicly deferred to Fats Domino (a Black man) when he was called the King of Rock N Roll

3) he acknowledged his artistic indebtedness to other Black American recording artists who
preceded him

4) he didn't advocate strenuously for Black American recording artists, but it was not incumbent
upon him to do so ethically or practically

This is hardly "hyping" him up or saying he did "all this shit for Black people."

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

No, you need to read:

I said that "I've asked that you not make it seem as if. . . "; I never mounted a counter-argument
against you by stating that you had asserted anything.

And here you go again with making shit up:

You keep saying Elvis did all this shit for Black people . . .

No, I fucking didn't. Nowhere in this thread can you point to anything I said that is even remotely
close to this (among others) strawman argument you've pulled straight outta yer butthole!

I can read fine. I have noted that MJ and Prince advocated for THEMSELVES as well as for social causes. So you even implying with your "seem as if" remark that I suggested MJ/Prince just advocated for others doesn't make any sense.

Whatever on the last bit about Elvis, yes you have. We can agree to disagree.

You don't think MJ and Prince have done anything for Black musicians and causes and you think Elvis has, fine whatever think what you want to think. You really need to stop commenting on MJ because you are unfamiliar with his career and things he has done, that is evident everytime you talk about him. Do some research first before you make claims that are not true.

[Edited 6/13/17 10:05am]

^

You see? When someone accuses you of something, and you ask them for proof, and they
can't provide any, or refuse to, usually you can bet the farm that the accuser is full of doo-
doo, and may even try to hide behind some other goofy excuse like "I'm too tired" or "It's
not worth my time" or "I don't have to" or "I don't want to".

Lawd this thread has went so far off what I was trying to post about

Mods: What did you learn from this liljojo

Liljojo: I need to go back to the trying board and we think my delivery so next time my thread will not have others on the edge unless it's debating and not sarcastic remarks degrading each other.

Everyone who's still coming in this thread reading I didn't mean for Elvis to become a main part. Just posted some opinions and views by others from that era. Next, I don't know how folks read my first post and considered that to be my views when I clearly said I was typing what MJ and Prince said. But what's bothering me the most is the sarcasm being thrown around to belittle each other. I'm 32 and feel we can all without going at each personally agree to disagree.

I started the thread to gain knowledge on why Prince and MJ felt and thought the way they did. Never meant for this to turn into a Elvis, Prince, and MJ bashing. Hell I'm shocked at the Prince comments . But I will make a thread later with only Prince no Michael. I'm very curious to say why some of y'all say Prince have never done close to nothing for the black community. I can not debate with you all on Prince because I don't know but as for Michael Jackson I know the truth about him giving back and helping the black community to the point he couldn't pay his staff at neverland. I don't really trust charities and would whether give it to the people myself. If people came out and said how much any artist have gave and done I think it would blow our minds. But that's none of our business I guess, and with me being a person who have signed checks with a different name on it and put it in people mail boxes or on apartment doors, I can understand wanting to be under the radar. But giving comes with a hard price. Once people find out you're a giver they take advantage of you or appreciate you. You can never give enough to some people and give too much to others. The understanding of being grateful and knowing you aren't the heavenly father who can heal and fix all things goes out the window. People will make you feel as if you only did things to bring attention to yourself, show that you are better than them, or they just jealous and very envious of their idea of your lifestyle. I'm speaking from experience because I love to give and spread positivity due to seeing people overjoyed and happy is like a drug for me and makes me feel great inside, I can't explain the joy it gives me.

So I do I believe Elvis stayed in his realm that he can handle because you can tell talking about race was very uncomfortable for him and he did the best he knew and understood. Can't knock the man for that. But he still gets the he didn't do enough tag, he ain't the heavenly father.

Do I believe Prince stayed in his realm that he can handle and understand because you can tell he felt uncomfortable talking about racism also and stayed within the record industry realm. Yes!

After seeing the results that was going on from people who was in the non-violet movement with Martin Luther King Jr getting killed and beat I don't blame Elvis because like Dick Gregory and others said you had to be willing to die for marching in those days. I can't find the book I read in highschool at the library back home where Elvis talks about doing drugs to get the vivid images of the lynchings of black innocent people including black kids back when he stayed in Tupelo, Mississippi and how nothing much changed when his family later moved to Memphis, Tenn. One of his black friends was murdered because a white woman accussed the little black boy of looking at her and trying to rape her. Elvis continued to say, that that wasn't true and he told his mom but she told him never to repeat what he said. God I wish I could find the book and I can give you the writer entire story. What I give Elvis credit is acknowledging that racism did exist and that he alone had no answer or cure for it other than people have to change themselves from such a hatred state of mind. It's people on this board when I first came here some years back that was supporting the NAAWP which a racist backlash at NAACP smdfh (That's not up for debate, it's by a ex KKK member David). And it's a lot of people that feel Barack Obama being president was the end of all racism. Chile please! But Elvis did what I think he could handle, just like Prince and MJ. None of the 3 and others went as far as Sly Stone, Cassius Clay, MLK, Malcolm Little, Dick Gregory, Frank Sinatra, and some others. At the end of the day we are all humans and can only do as much as we can understand and comprehend. Everybody not willing to die for what you are willing to die for or fight the same way you fight or think the same way you think. I will finalize my post by saying I never intended to have this thread where bashing artists would start. If anyone feel that way, that's on you and your opinion. I'm not sorry for my views or posts because I made great valid points that was never rebuttaled. And just to give a personal racist story that left me speechless here read at your own risk.

I was driving down I-75 towards Jacksonville and got stuck in a road congestion. So I was playing Spin Doctors song "Two Princes" (that's my song), then Helena by My Chemical romance,

The Sign by Ace of Base. This driver next to me didn't get mad until Barbie Girl by Aqua came on and I kept playing the breakdown part (Come on barbie lets go party) and this white lady rolled her window down and screamed at "For fucking christ sacks turn that annoying shit off you fucking black cracker ass cracker. I was like and confused because i've never been called a black cracker before but I Snoop Dogg Ballin' song and she told me to turn that up . Shout out to Duval, Florida lol

liljojo said:

Everyone who's still coming in this thread reading I didn't mean for Elvis to become a main part. Just posted some opinions and views by others from that era.

After seeing the results that was going on from people who was in the non-violet movement with Martin Luther King Jr getting killed and beat I don't blame Elvis because like Dick Gregory and others said you had to be willing to die for marching in those days. I can't find the book I read in highschool at the library back home where Elvis talks about doing drugs to get the vivid images of the lynchings of black innocent people including black kids back when he stayed in Tupelo, Mississippi and how nothing much changed when his family later moved to Memphis, Tenn. One of his black friends was murdered because a white woman accussed the little black boy of looking at her and trying to rape her. Elvis continued to say, that that wasn't true and he told his mom but she told him never to repeat what he said. God I wish I could find the book and I can give you the writer entire story. What I give Elvis credit is acknowledging that racism did exist and that he alone had no answer or cure for it other than people have to change themselves from such a hatred state of mind. It's people on this board when I first came here some years back that was supporting the NAAWP which a racist backlash at NAACP smdfh (That's not up for debate, it's by a ex KKK member David). And it's a lot of people that feel Barack Obama being president was the end of all racism. Chile please! But Elvis did what I think he could handle, just like Prince and MJ. None of the 3 and others went as far as Sly Stone, Cassius Clay, MLK, Malcolm Little, Dick Gregory, Frank Sinatra, and some others. At the end of the day we are all humans and can only do as much as we can understand and comprehend. Everybody not willing to die for what you are willing to die for or fight the same way you fight or think the same way you think. I will finalize my post by saying I never intended to have this thread where bashing artists would start. If anyone feel that way, that's on you and your opinion. I'm not sorry for my views or posts because I made great valid points that was never rebuttaled. And just to give a personal racist story that left me speechless here read at your own risk.

The above is aligned with the New York Times article I posted where we see Elvis Presley ack-
nowledging that he's indebted to Black American recording artists, and that he was not a racist,
and that he did not like being called the "King of Rock n Roll" especially with his pal, Fats Dom-
ino, standing nearby.

I think what drove Carousal bat-shit crazy was this part of your original post, which kinda contra-
dicts what you wrote above:

Dasein said:

^

You see? When someone accuses you of something, and you ask them for proof, and they
can't provide any, or refuse to, usually you can bet the farm that the accuser is full of doo-
doo, and may even try to hide behind some other goofy excuse like "I'm too tired" or "It's
not worth my time" or "I don't have to" or "I don't want to".

liljojo said:

Lawd this thread has went so far off what I was trying to post about

Mods: What did you learn from this liljojo

Liljojo: I need to go back to the trying board and we think my delivery so next time my thread will not have others on the edge unless it's debating and not sarcastic remarks degrading each other.

Everyone who's still coming in this thread reading I didn't mean for Elvis to become a main part. Just posted some opinions and views by others from that era. Next, I don't know how folks read my first post and considered that to be my views when I clearly said I was typing what MJ and Prince said. But what's bothering me the most is the sarcasm being thrown around to belittle each other. I'm 32 and feel we can all without going at each personally agree to disagree.

I started the thread to gain knowledge on why Prince and MJ felt and thought the way they did. Never meant for this to turn into a Elvis, Prince, and MJ bashing. Hell I'm shocked at the Prince comments . But I will make a thread later with only Prince no Michael. I'm very curious to say why some of y'all say Prince have never done close to nothing for the black community. I can not debate with you all on Prince because I don't know but as for Michael Jackson I know the truth about him giving back and helping the black community to the point he couldn't pay his staff at neverland. I don't really trust charities and would whether give it to the people myself. If people came out and said how much any artist have gave and done I think it would blow our minds. But that's none of our business I guess, and with me being a person who have signed checks with a different name on it and put it in people mail boxes or on apartment doors, I can understand wanting to be under the radar. But giving comes with a hard price. Once people find out you're a giver they take advantage of you or appreciate you. You can never give enough to some people and give too much to others. The understanding of being grateful and knowing you aren't the heavenly father who can heal and fix all things goes out the window. People will make you feel as if you only did things to bring attention to yourself, show that you are better than them, or they just jealous and very envious of their idea of your lifestyle. I'm speaking from experience because I love to give and spread positivity due to seeing people overjoyed and happy is like a drug for me and makes me feel great inside, I can't explain the joy it gives me.

So I do I believe Elvis stayed in his realm that he can handle because you can tell talking about race was very uncomfortable for him and he did the best he knew and understood. Can't knock the man for that. But he still gets the he didn't do enough tag, he ain't the heavenly father.

Do I believe Prince stayed in his realm that he can handle and understand because you can tell he felt uncomfortable talking about racism also and stayed within the record industry realm. Yes!

After seeing the results that was going on from people who was in the non-violet movement with Martin Luther King Jr getting killed and beat I don't blame Elvis because like Dick Gregory and others said you had to be willing to die for marching in those days. I can't find the book I read in highschool at the library back home where Elvis talks about doing drugs to get the vivid images of the lynchings of black innocent people including black kids back when he stayed in Tupelo, Mississippi and how nothing much changed when his family later moved to Memphis, Tenn. One of his black friends was murdered because a white woman accussed the little black boy of looking at her and trying to rape her. Elvis continued to say, that that wasn't true and he told his mom but she told him never to repeat what he said. God I wish I could find the book and I can give you the writer entire story. What I give Elvis credit is acknowledging that racism did exist and that he alone had no answer or cure for it other than people have to change themselves from such a hatred state of mind. It's people on this board when I first came here some years back that was supporting the NAAWP which a racist backlash at NAACP smdfh (That's not up for debate, it's by a ex KKK member David). And it's a lot of people that feel Barack Obama being president was the end of all racism. Chile please! But Elvis did what I think he could handle, just like Prince and MJ. None of the 3 and others went as far as Sly Stone, Cassius Clay, MLK, Malcolm Little, Dick Gregory, Frank Sinatra, and some others. At the end of the day we are all humans and can only do as much as we can understand and comprehend. Everybody not willing to die for what you are willing to die for or fight the same way you fight or think the same way you think. I will finalize my post by saying I never intended to have this thread where bashing artists would start. If anyone feel that way, that's on you and your opinion. I'm not sorry for my views or posts because I made great valid points that was never rebuttaled. And just to give a personal racist story that left me speechless here read at your own risk.

I was driving down I-75 towards Jacksonville and got stuck in a road congestion. So I was playing Spin Doctors song "Two Princes" (that's my song), then Helena by My Chemical romance,

The Sign by Ace of Base. This driver next to me didn't get mad until Barbie Girl by Aqua came on and I kept playing the breakdown part (Come on barbie lets go party) and this white lady rolled her window down and screamed at "For fucking christ sacks turn that annoying shit off you fucking black cracker ass cracker. I was like and confused because i've never been called a black cracker before but I Snoop Dogg Ballin' song and she told me to turn that up . Shout out to Duval, Florida lol

This thread is a mess ain't it?

I am shocked about the Prince comments too. They are misinformed about what he has done for Black people on his OWN site! I am not shocked about their remarks on Michael because the org hates the Jacksons but its interesting how they are minimizing the impact Prince made and had on the Black community in terms of giving back when this is a Prince fan site.

I also kinda disagree when you say MJ's impact wasn't the same as MLK. Yea of course MJ did not end Jim Crow and segregation but I think his music had a lot to do with bringing different races of people together. He was the first Black pop star with that particularly reach. Hes right up there with MLK, Nelson Mendala in terms of global figures. When I went to South Africa, there was a picture of Nelson Mendela right beside Michael. We might sit back and say these people were "just artists" but they weren't just artists to a lot of people around the world. Mjs music brought a lot of racises and cultures together. I agree with you, many here are not familiar with the charities, contributions and humanitarian work of these artists.

^

Utterly ridiculous.

mjscarousal said

This thread is a mess ain't it?

I am shocked about the Prince comments too. They are misinformed about what he has done for Black people on his OWN site! I am not shocked about their remarks on Michael because the org hates the Jacksons but its interesting how they are minimizing the impact Prince made and had on the Black community in terms of giving back when this is a Prince fan site.

I also kinda disagree when you say MJ's impact wasn't the same as MLK. Yea of course MJ did not end Jim Crow and segregation but I think his music had a lot to do with bringing different races of people together. He was the first Black pop star with that particularly reach. Hes right up there with MLK, Nelson Mendala in terms of global figures. When I went to South Africa, there was a picture of Nelson Mendela right beside Michael. We might sit back and say these people were "just artists" but they weren't just artists to a lot of people around the world. Mjs music brought a lot of racises and cultures together. I agree with you, many here are not familiar with the charities, contributions and humanitarian work of these artists.

I just can't put MJ in the same ball park as MLK, he come close with the spread world peace and harmony message and non-violence but MLK start seperating with religious belief and contractual obiligations for MJ. MLK was a preacher and MJ was pop artist phenom which made him more known than MLK. I'm a MJ DIEHARD admirer love him to the end. Sometimes it hurts to hear his songs. Miss the days I can listen to his music without getting sad, and the era that gets to me is the Jackson 5 kid era because I lost my child/infant in 2015. But back on topic, MJ will never be seen as a MLK figure outside his fan base and even within due especially 1993 and again 2005 I think it was but the child molestation charges really fucked him up along with his stubborness and little rebel spirit. I have a brother and he's the baby plus a virgo like Michael and if they feel they aren't doing anything wrong they will continue doing whatever it is and will debate you to the end of life and hell abyss. When Michael wasn't being MJ and humanized himself and was just himself was the best of Michael Joseph Jackson the human, not the superstar. This even carried over into his songs for example people act like the BAD album is terrible but love and respect Man in The Mirror Dirty Diana & Leave Me Alone. Again people don't like HIStory disc 2 album but Scream, They Don't Care About Us, Stranger in Moscow (the song about my life lol), Hip Hop fans love This Time Around, the hidden gem Tabloid Junkie, Earth Song, and You're Not Alone folks love those songs. Damn history got some jams on it lol minus Little Susie, that song scares the shit out of me which I have to give him props for. But I hate little susie, it's like a hidden chunky or that killer clown IT theme song. Michael fight was towards the entertainment industry for the black community and fighting the injustice of the entertainment industry because he had that experience more which cost his life to be a Target. Especially after he came to several other artists rescue with Mariah Carey being the highest and then made RACIST Elvis fans mad when he married Lisa Presly, Lisa own mom was against it. Michael was cray cray man. He did stuff on purpose. Michael and the black community relationship became strained when they felt he turned his back on his family (whatever to that lol), skin color change, and really bad when Don King called him a rich ni66er. Then the church community mainly Christianity and Catholic churches was against him and later jehovah witnesses. So Michael really never gave much of a fuck around the mid 90's as he felt the black community turned their back on him so MJ starting working towards world peace instead of the betterment of the black community. MJ and the black community didn't start getting back together and healing until the 2nd case happen but little did they know that MJ will be gone a few years later in 2009 which is why it was really hard for the black community to handle his death. Which is why I know how die-hard Prince admirers are feeling, that shit feels like a piece of your life is gone. MLK never suffered like MJ because they blow his fucking head off. So for all of you that want to know what the non-violence routine brings you go read MLK history, and for you that want to know how raw truth can get your ass killed by your own black community go read Malcolm Little, 2pac, Christopher Wallace, and Eminem & T.I. friends that was murdered. Being well known never mix good with raw truth as it can cost your life at the end.

Generational understandings and differences is what make us all clash. Myis the 90's and 00's music era and 2pac was my Cassius Clay or MLK. So I understand where you coming from MJcarousal. I like hard raw truth just like 2pac was giving, MJ didn't dare cross the lines 2pac crossed nor Elvis or Prince. Real hip-hop is telling the truth in it's rawest form which is why a lot of people don't like rap and thought it would be dead by now but it is not the strongest music genre. Eminem was the biggest surprised because he was the first time I saw a white guy be treated like a black make. Love people like him!

[Edited 6/14/17 17:37pm]

Dasein said:

liljojo said:

Everyone who's still coming in this thread reading I didn't mean for Elvis to become a main part. Just posted some opinions and views by others from that era.

After seeing the results that was going on from people who was in the non-violet movement with Martin Luther King Jr getting killed and beat I don't blame Elvis because like Dick Gregory and others said you had to be willing to die for marching in those days. I can't find the book I read in highschool at the library back home where Elvis talks about doing drugs to get the vivid images of the lynchings of black innocent people including black kids back when he stayed in Tupelo, Mississippi and how nothing much changed when his family later moved to Memphis, Tenn. One of his black friends was murdered because a white woman accussed the little black boy of looking at her and trying to rape her. Elvis continued to say, that that wasn't true and he told his mom but she told him never to repeat what he said. God I wish I could find the book and I can give you the writer entire story. What I give Elvis credit is acknowledging that racism did exist and that he alone had no answer or cure for it other than people have to change themselves from such a hatred state of mind. It's people on this board when I first came here some years back that was supporting the NAAWP which a racist backlash at NAACP smdfh (That's not up for debate, it's by a ex KKK member David). And it's a lot of people that feel Barack Obama being president was the end of all racism. Chile please! But Elvis did what I think he could handle, just like Prince and MJ. None of the 3 and others went as far as Sly Stone, Cassius Clay, MLK, Malcolm Little, Dick Gregory, Frank Sinatra, and some others. At the end of the day we are all humans and can only do as much as we can understand and comprehend. Everybody not willing to die for what you are willing to die for or fight the same way you fight or think the same way you think. I will finalize my post by saying I never intended to have this thread where bashing artists would start. If anyone feel that way, that's on you and your opinion. I'm not sorry for my views or posts because I made great valid points that was never rebuttaled. And just to give a personal racist story that left me speechless here read at your own risk.

The above is aligned with the New York Times article I posted where we see Elvis Presley ack-
nowledging that he's indebted to Black American recording artists, and that he was not a racist,
and that he did not like being called the "King of Rock n Roll" especially with his pal, Fats Dom-
ino, standing nearby.

I think what drove Carousal bat-shit crazy was this part of your original post, which kinda contra-
dicts what you wrote above:

Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

The thing is, is that the New York Times article suggests that the reason why the Black American
community chafed at Presley is because of the rumor started about him where he said something
like "The only thing Black people can do for me is to shine my shoes and buy my records" while
the white media is proclaiming him as the aforementioned. But, it was a rumor; Presley never said
such a thing, so if you consider that in addition to him not wanting to be called the aforementioned,
I think you are then forced to reassess your conception of Presley and his pop culture significance.

That's actually a quote I got off another fan site. My first post have none of my views in it which is why my views are different from others opinions. I dont care for Elvis like that nor his music just like a lot of Elvis fans don't care for rap music but I love rap music, some pop and rock, and adore jazz music. Hell I would whether listen to the Eagles hotel california song on repeat over any Elvis song. But I will listen to jailhouse rock over any Paul McCourtney song minus say say say and this is the man as they have MJ in them songs lol.