Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

lol Don't Walk Away a hit ? This is the worst MJ song ever along with You Are My Life and Privacy. Americans have strange taste. in Europe, BTFLS and HEAVEN CAN WAIT wouldn't have been able to get some airplay.

.

I know about the 9/11 story, but 6 months after, I highly doubt MJ was still afraid of taking a plane. He still traveled all around the world. He just didn't want / or couldn't want to tour. In 2003 MJ himself said that if he toured again, he would be dead.

.

Don't you think Sony felt that it was weird too that they gave MJ 1 million dollar for CRY and that he didn't even show up on the music video ? That he refused to appear in BUTTERFLIES, after bitching them about it had to be released instead of CRY ?

.

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

.

Truth: he was funkier with the Jacksons.

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Sony are insane for not releasing "Whatever Happens" as a single.With a really good video featuring Carlos Santana,that song would have easily reached the Top 10 with no problem.

SoulAlive said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Sony are insane for not releasing "Whatever Happens" as a single.With a really good video featuring Carlos Santana,that song would have easily reached the Top 10 with no problem.

Innit. It was supposed to have been the fourth single. Mottola = prick.

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

lol Don't Walk Away a hit ? This is the worst MJ song ever along with You Are My Life and Privacy. Americans have strange taste. in Europe, BTFLS and HEAVEN CAN WAIT wouldn't have been able to get some airplay.

.

I know about the 9/11 story, but 6 months after, I highly doubt MJ was still afraid of taking a plane. He still traveled all around the world. He just didn't want / or couldn't want to tour. In 2003 MJ himself said that if he toured again, he would be dead.

.

Don't you think Sony felt that it was weird too that they gave MJ 1 million dollar for CRY and that he didn't even show up on the music video ? That he refused to appear in BUTTERFLIES, after bitching them about it had to be released instead of CRY ?

.

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

.

How so?

SoulAlive said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Sony are insane for not releasing "Whatever Happens" as a single.With a really good video featuring Carlos Santana,that song would have easily reached the Top 10 with no problem.

WH is one of the greatest Michael's songs in his carreer and sounds unlike anything else he had made.

Without debating the merits of the entire Invincible album and focusing on "Heaven Can Wait" as a song, it (IMO) is MJ's best ballad since Lady in My Life. It oozed the classic MJ slow jam sound but sounded contemporary at the same time.

I will be honest, I was not following him as heavily by the late 1990's/early 2000's, so the dealings with Sony and Tommy Mottola are above my level of understanding. I know he had issues, but not sure about promotion of Invincible and its overall prognosis. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks!

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

lol Don't Walk Away a hit ? This is the worst MJ song ever along with You Are My Life and Privacy. Americans have strange taste. in Europe, BTFLS and HEAVEN CAN WAIT wouldn't have been able to get some airplay.

.

I know about the 9/11 story, but 6 months after, I highly doubt MJ was still afraid of taking a plane. He still traveled all around the world. He just didn't want / or couldn't want to tour. In 2003 MJ himself said that if he toured again, he would be dead.

.

Don't you think Sony felt that it was weird too that they gave MJ 1 million dollar for CRY and that he didn't even show up on the music video ? That he refused to appear in BUTTERFLIES, after bitching them about it had to be released instead of CRY ?

.

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

.

By then, support for the album was done. Sony halted promotion by February 2002

He wanted Butterflies because it was a better single choice. Cry flopped but Butterflies did well without a video

214 said:

RODSERLING said:

lol Don't Walk Away a hit ? This is the worst MJ song ever along with You Are My Life and Privacy. Americans have strange taste. in Europe, BTFLS and HEAVEN CAN WAIT wouldn't have been able to get some airplay.

.

I know about the 9/11 story, but 6 months after, I highly doubt MJ was still afraid of taking a plane. He still traveled all around the world. He just didn't want / or couldn't want to tour. In 2003 MJ himself said that if he toured again, he would be dead.

.

Don't you think Sony felt that it was weird too that they gave MJ 1 million dollar for CRY and that he didn't even show up on the music video ? That he refused to appear in BUTTERFLIES, after bitching them about it had to be released instead of CRY ?

.

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

.

How so?

What is called in the US "adult contemporary rnb" has absolutely no audience in Europe, hence the failure of CRY.

.

Pieces of crap such as Insatiable, X's and Q's, Call My Name, This could Be uS, songs like that, get zero airplay in Europe.

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

lol Don't Walk Away a hit ? This is the worst MJ song ever along with You Are My Life and Privacy. Americans have strange taste. in Europe, BTFLS and HEAVEN CAN WAIT wouldn't have been able to get some airplay.

.

I know about the 9/11 story, but 6 months after, I highly doubt MJ was still afraid of taking a plane. He still traveled all around the world. He just didn't want / or couldn't want to tour. In 2003 MJ himself said that if he toured again, he would be dead.

.

Don't you think Sony felt that it was weird too that they gave MJ 1 million dollar for CRY and that he didn't even show up on the music video ? That he refused to appear in BUTTERFLIES, after bitching them about it had to be released instead of CRY ?

.

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

.

By then, support for the album was done. Sony halted promotion by February 2002

He wanted Butterflies because it was a better single choice. Cry flopped but Butterflies did well without a video

February ? BUTTERFLIES was still in top 40 in march 2002. In fact it quits the hot 100 only because of a rule that forbid any single to be in it more than 20 weeks.

.

Even in february/ march, 5/6 months after the 911, it was still time to do a world tour. That's why in march/ april of 2002, Sony proposed to MJ once again to tour, and he refused. Hence Sony gave up Invincible on their priorities.

.

In march/april of 2002, MJ was still looking for a new concept and director for UNBREAKABLE, but was unsatisfied and didn't want to give one cent to pay it.

If he wanted BTFLS, as you pointed it out, why did he refused to make a video for it ? If it's not to fuck Sony, of course.

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

I will be honest, I was not following him as heavily by the late 1990's/early 2000's, so the dealings with Sony and Tommy Mottola are above my level of understanding. I know he had issues, but not sure about promotion of Invincible and its overall prognosis. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks!

To sum it up, MJ refused to promote his own album, despite being given millions from Sony only to promote it, and 4 years to record it.

.

So, after 7 months of promotion, beginning with YRMW in august 2001, they gave up promoting it.

.

MJ accused them of sabotaging the promo of Invincible and being racist. End of MJ's ante-mortem carreer.

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

By then, support for the album was done. Sony halted promotion by February 2002

He wanted Butterflies because it was a better single choice. Cry flopped but Butterflies did well without a video

February ? BUTTERFLIES was still in top 40 in march 2002. In fact it quits the hot 100 only because of a rule that forbid any single to be in it more than 20 weeks.

.

Even in february/ march, 5/6 months after the 911, it was still time to do a world tour. That's why in march/ april of 2002, Sony proposed to MJ once again to tour, and he refused. Hence Sony gave up Invincible on their priorities.

.

In march/april of 2002, MJ was still looking for a new concept and director for UNBREAKABLE, but was unsatisfied and didn't want to give one cent to pay it.

If he wanted BTFLS, as you pointed it out, why did he refused to make a video for it ? If it's not to fuck Sony, of course.

Yes, February. Sony gave up on the support but the single was still doing well on the US R&B charts, which was why fans were surprised that Sony weren't going to do more since Your Rock My World was a hit and Butterflies had gone to #2 on the R&B chart.

MJ didn't do himself any favors. When he did the American Bandstand special, he performed Dangerous. WTF? Also, was it wise to tell Sony he was leaving the label after its release?

[Edited 6/12/17 15:42pm]

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

It was weird that Sony didn't have any commercials for Invincible. It was also weird that the record stores had NO promotion or posters. We actually had to ask the sales people where the album was in the store. Another thing is after the album sold out, the stores didn't restock. That had NEVER happened with a MJ album before. I knew then that there was shady BS going on with Motolla/Sony.

I remember the album was prominently promoted in Holland. I still have a promo poster from a record store and a display for the CD that they had. Even a TV advertisment.

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

February ? BUTTERFLIES was still in top 40 in march 2002. In fact it quits the hot 100 only because of a rule that forbid any single to be in it more than 20 weeks.

.

Even in february/ march, 5/6 months after the 911, it was still time to do a world tour. That's why in march/ april of 2002, Sony proposed to MJ once again to tour, and he refused. Hence Sony gave up Invincible on their priorities.

.

In march/april of 2002, MJ was still looking for a new concept and director for UNBREAKABLE, but was unsatisfied and didn't want to give one cent to pay it.

If he wanted BTFLS, as you pointed it out, why did he refused to make a video for it ? If it's not to fuck Sony, of course.

Yes, February. Sony gave up on the support but the single was still doing well on the US R&B charts, which was why fans were surprised that Sony weren't going to do more since Your Rock My World was a hit and Butterflies had gone to #2 on the R&B chart.

MJ didn't do himself any favors. When he did the American Bandstand special, he performed Dangerous. WTF? Also, was it wise to tell Sony he was leaving the label after its release?

[Edited 6/12/17 15:42pm]

If Sony gave up on the support for the album in february, BTFLS wouldn't be on the 40 in march. Airplay works with payola.

HEAVEN CAN WAIT itself wouldn't have spent 16 weeks on the rnb charts, without payola in airplay.

.

What was Sony supposed to do more to promote INVINCIBLE ? Without MJ's involvment, it was impossible. BTFLs was a hit, but it could have been better with a music video, a live performance on the tv, etc. Without Eve's remix financed by Sony, the single wouldn't have been a hit I'm afraid.

.

In Europe, CRY was released along, for the first time in MJ's dicography, a real unreleased B-Side "SHOUT". I thought at the time it would be largely enough to make it a top 5, but the fans decided to not buy it. This is so sad, because if CRY would have been a top 5/10, there would have been a following single.

.

You're right, instead of performing DANGEROUS, he should have done UNBREAK or something from INVINCIBLE.He even cancelled his performance of WHATEVER HAPPENS for the grammys in february 2002, officially because Santana couldn't be here.

.

MJ was contracted to Sony for two more albums (which were NUMBER ONES and ULTIMATE), and numerous reeditions until 2012. It would have been impossible for him to leave, so i don't think it was a problem for Sony anyway.

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

To sum it up, MJ refused to promote his own album, despite being given millions from Sony only to promote it, and 4 years to record it.

.

So, after 7 months of promotion, beginning with YRMW in august 2001, they gave up promoting it.

.

MJ accused them of sabotaging the promo of Invincible and being racist. End of MJ's ante-mortem carreer.

This is what Motolla/Sony was leaking to the media. They sabotaged Invincible and then made it seem as if it was Michael's fault. Insiders have said that everything Michael was saying about Motolla/Sony sabotaging the album was true. Really, it didn't take Einstein to ascertain what Motolla was doing.

Insiders also said that MJ made everything to screw up promotion of the album in order to put the blame on Sony.

.

Let's stick to the facts : Sony spent 20 millions in recording and 25 millions in promotion of INVINCIBLE. Including 4 millions for YRMW and 1 million for CRY. MJ refused to be involved in the creation of the music video, he refused to do CRY, BTFLS.

.

He wanted only to do UNBREAK, but fired 2 directors because nobody came with a real good concept.

.

If Sony wanted to fuck up the promotion, they would have released YOU ARE MY LIFE as a lead single without a music video, they woildn't have done 5 color editions, etc.

.

No need to be einstein to know that. Every other rnb artist at the time benefited from much less promotion than MJ, but sold more.

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

It was weird that Sony didn't have any commercials for Invincible. It was also weird that the record stores had NO promotion or posters. We actually had to ask the sales people where the album was in the store. Another thing is after the album sold out, the stores didn't restock. That had NEVER happened with a MJ album before. I knew then that there was shady BS going on with Motolla/Sony.

Nonsense...the album sold 2.1 millions in the US by pure magic ? You know that is impossible, right?

.

Look at the chartrun of the album, it doesn't seem like the album wasn't reapprovisionned at all :

1* -3-4- 11-17-25-28- ( 05-01-2002:) 26-25-27-(certified 2*PLATINUM) - 24- 25-27-27-35-40-46-53-71-89-104-126-123-130-124-174-173-198 (28 weeks).

When the album was certified 2*PLATINUM in shipment, it was in fact 1.55 million sales. So there was more than enough shipment.

.

The worst is that in Europe, there was still in 2007 initial shipments from november 2001 ! Record stores didn't get rid off the initial shipments

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Yes, February. Sony gave up on the support but the single was still doing well on the US R&B charts, which was why fans were surprised that Sony weren't going to do more since Your Rock My World was a hit and Butterflies had gone to #2 on the R&B chart.

MJ didn't do himself any favors. When he did the American Bandstand special, he performed Dangerous. WTF? Also, was it wise to tell Sony he was leaving the label after its release?

[Edited 6/12/17 15:42pm]

If Sony gave up on the support for the album in february, BTFLS wouldn't be on the 40 in march. Airplay works with payola.

HEAVEN CAN WAIT itself wouldn't have spent 16 weeks on the rnb charts, without payola in airplay.

.

What was Sony supposed to do more to promote INVINCIBLE ? Without MJ's involvment, it was impossible. BTFLs was a hit, but it could have been better with a music video, a live performance on the tv, etc. Without Eve's remix financed by Sony, the single wouldn't have been a hit I'm afraid.

.

In Europe, CRY was released along, for the first time in MJ's dicography, a real unreleased B-Side "SHOUT". I thought at the time it would be largely enough to make it a top 5, but the fans decided to not buy it. This is so sad, because if CRY would have been a top 5/10, there would have been a following single.

.

You're right, instead of performing DANGEROUS, he should have done UNBREAK or something from INVINCIBLE.He even cancelled his performance of WHATEVER HAPPENS for the grammys in february 2002, officially because Santana couldn't be here.

.

MJ was contracted to Sony for two more albums (which were NUMBER ONES and ULTIMATE), and numerous reeditions until 2012. It would have been impossible for him to leave, so i don't think it was a problem for Sony anyway.

Don't really know about that. The remix with Eve got airplay for sure, but the album version was what drove its popularity. I remember hearing the remixes of You Rock My World and Butterflies on the radio but it was only on occasion (I lived in California so I can't speak for other areas) I still feel physical CD releases in the US could've helped a bit.

Butterflies peaked at #2 on the R&B chart in January '02 and #14 and Invincible was still doing well on the R&B album chart (It was #5 the week Butterflies peaked)

I've always seen what happened to Invincible as Michael and Sony not agreeing and when Sony gave up, Michael went on the attack. Michael also screwed up for sure by not doing a performance or video for Butterflies and Sony could've had CD singles in the US (People DID still buy them but the market was shrinking)

I think M. Prince discussed the cancelled Grammy performance in that same podcast I mentioned

http://www.themjcast.com/episode-052-michael-prince-special/

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.

-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

It was weird that Sony didn't have any commercials for Invincible. It was also weird that the record stores had NO promotion or posters. We actually had to ask the sales people where the album was in the store. Another thing is after the album sold out, the stores didn't restock. That had NEVER happened with a MJ album before. I knew then that there was shady BS going on with Motolla/Sony.

There WAS a commercial for the album. I didn't see it in 2001-2002 but I remember fans saying they saw it. It's on Youtube now

bboy87 said:

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said: It was weird that Sony didn't have any commercials for Invincible. It was also weird that the record stores had NO promotion or posters. We actually had to ask the sales people where the album was in the store. Another thing is after the album sold out, the stores didn't restock. That had NEVER happened with a MJ album before. I knew then that there was shady BS going on with Motolla/Sony.

There WAS a commercial for the album. I didn't see it in 2001-2002 but I remember fans saying they saw it. It's on Youtube now

In France there was a huge promotion on tv, IIRC 9 promotionnals had been made.

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

If Sony gave up on the support for the album in february, BTFLS wouldn't be on the 40 in march. Airplay works with payola.

HEAVEN CAN WAIT itself wouldn't have spent 16 weeks on the rnb charts, without payola in airplay.

.

What was Sony supposed to do more to promote INVINCIBLE ? Without MJ's involvment, it was impossible. BTFLs was a hit, but it could have been better with a music video, a live performance on the tv, etc. Without Eve's remix financed by Sony, the single wouldn't have been a hit I'm afraid.

.

In Europe, CRY was released along, for the first time in MJ's dicography, a real unreleased B-Side "SHOUT". I thought at the time it would be largely enough to make it a top 5, but the fans decided to not buy it. This is so sad, because if CRY would have been a top 5/10, there would have been a following single.

.

You're right, instead of performing DANGEROUS, he should have done UNBREAK or something from INVINCIBLE.He even cancelled his performance of WHATEVER HAPPENS for the grammys in february 2002, officially because Santana couldn't be here.

.

MJ was contracted to Sony for two more albums (which were NUMBER ONES and ULTIMATE), and numerous reeditions until 2012. It would have been impossible for him to leave, so i don't think it was a problem for Sony anyway.

Don't really know about that. The remix with Eve got airplay for sure, but the album version was what drove its popularity. I remember hearing the remixes of You Rock My World and Butterflies on the radio but it was only on occasion (I lived in California so I can't speak for other areas) I still feel physical CD releases in the US could've helped a bit.

Butterflies peaked at #2 on the R&B chart in January '02 and #14 and Invincible was still doing well on the R&B album chart (It was #5 the week Butterflies peaked)

I've always seen what happened to Invincible as Michael and Sony not agreeing and when Sony gave up, Michael went on the attack. Michael also screwed up for sure by not doing a performance or video for Butterflies and Sony could've had CD singles in the US (People DID still buy them but the market was shrinking)

I think M. Prince discussed the cancelled Grammy performance in that same podcast I mentioned

http://www.themjcast.com/episode-052-michael-prince-special/

The music video of BTFLS was supposed to be the remix with Eve.

.

I think the music video would have launched it in the top 10, and have better effect on the album.

.

Releasing a CD-single would have helped the single to gain some ranks on the Hot 100, but would have diminished the album sales.

.

What a frustrating era.

RODSERLING said:

The music video of BTFLS was supposed to be the remix with Eve.

.

I think the music video would have launched it in the top 10, and have better effect on the album.

Source? You keep making these random claims without citing evidence.

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

RODSERLING said:

Derek1984 said:

I've been out of the loop for a while. Just wondering, has anything unreleased been leaked in the past year?

Oh yes

Which songs?
[Edited 6/14/17 23:23pm]

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

In France there was a huge promotion on tv, IIRC 9 promotionnals had been made.

In America, there was NOT a huge promotion on TV, or record stores.

So how come it sold 2 millions in two months ? INVINCIBLE has success in only 2 countries : France and the US. And the US are really hard to convince, eespecially knowing that MJ was far less popular than in Europe.