no, not sycophant but very influenced. He wrote me once and said that he'd had falling out with many of his heroes when he wouldn't blindly follow them, I might still have that post on my old face book. He knew I loved him so he said he admired people but that they weren't important after a point and "fuck 'em" when they got made at him for not listening to what they said. He told me not to admire him so much as to look at him like a busstop. I couldn't tell you whether the name change was inspired by Prince or not but it seems suspicious that it happened at the same time and for the same reasons. Either way, he's a great talent in his own right, better singer than mj or Prince, better lyricist put a lot of care into the albums he put out in the early years.

Germanegro said:

PeteSilas said:

i always thought he was following prince's example with the name thing. I still struggle to call him sandanda whenever i post on his page because it just seems ridiculous. but, if that's what he wants to be called, like his hero, ali, he should be called that.

As outsiders viewing the spectacle it can look that way, but I doubt that he was looking at Prince and taking those notes--"hmm...name change? OK. Check!" His doing the splits onstage, however...was that taken from Prince, or James Brown?

>

He had friendships with plenty enough contemporaries beyond that one to aid in his soul-seeking. Although he and P. were artistic pals and friends he hadn't elevated Prince as an influence as high as he does The Beatles and other older artists. None of those Beatles changed their names with any transformation or crisis they may have had--just their religion, LOL.

>

And Sananda, despite his love for Prince, wasn't having Prince's Jehovah Witness testimonials. The last time Prince reached out to him he brushed him aside over that stickling point, I've read in Sananda's notes.

>

With all of that being said, I scoff at the notion that either incarnation of TTD/ Sananda was a sychophant of Prince/ . Doesn't matter much--I just had to get that off my chest.

TrivialPursuit said:

Germanegro said:

Listen to some songs from Sananda's "Nigor Mortis" album, then check out Valerie June's Organic Moonshine Roots movement exibited in her album "Pushin' Against a Stone" and that might help you get into his current vibe. Her sound aligns more toward what he's doing now with the Post-Modern Rock. His output now is just different from what happened in the 80s and 90s. Not for all, I guess. You might just feel that all of it is just a bunch of doody but sometimes I like the idea of helping people make the leap toward a sound that I like!

I had never heard of her but I looked up some of her stuff on youtube and thought that was a good comparison to Sananda's Post Millenium Rock.

PeteSlias said:

no, not sycophant but very influenced. He wrote me once and said that he'd had falling out with many of his heroes when he wouldn't blindly follow them, I might still have that post on my old face book. He knew I loved him so he said he admired people but that they weren't important after a point and "fuck 'em" when they got made at him for not listening to what they said. He told me not to admire him so much as to look at him like a busstop. I couldn't tell you whether the name change was inspired by Prince or not but it seems suspicious that it happened at the same time and for the same reasons. Either way, he's a great talent in his own right, better singer than mj or Prince, better lyricist put a lot of care into the albums he put out in the early years.

That's pretty cool that you'd traded words. It sounds to me like egos become at stake when these people get together, with demanding the obedience to one's teachings to the other as a condition of their friendship. That's an interesting observation, or my impression of the observation, anyway!

>

Sananda wrote a song in his Return to Zooathalon album that falls in line with his busstop comment, called "Don't Follow Me." That sentiment makes sense to me, too, that these entertainers should be seen by the majority of us as road-stops along the pathway to our real destinations. They entertain us, for crying out loud. They're not neccessarily our friends--they can't be real friends to each of us--althouth they love us for our support, and in the general sense of embracing the unity of humanity among the better of them.

>

Prince offered different explanations for his name change: (1) the symbol that spoke to him as defining his being that he designed and had considerd using for a time before actually doing so, and (2) the symbol to separate the old part of his career with WB Records from that of the independent artist and expel the notion of contractual obligations to the former partner. He'd use one or the other of those depending on the slant of a conversation. Similarly, both of 'em made the change under diress. Prince, however reclaimed his regular name after he placed a little distance bewteen himself and Warners, and I'm not sure that he made a legal change in the first place and only used the symbol as a moniker (I can't imagine him signing his tax forms *The Symbol*). Sananda on the other hand describes one series of dreams as his motivation, and through today only speaks of TTD in the third person, past-tense, so I don't believe he's ever reverting to his former name. I think the comparison of their individual name changes stems more from the simultaneous coincidence of their professional struggles. If Sananda had reached his ultimate breadown with Sony after the commerical tanking of Neither Fish Nor Flesh and made his change first, then people might accuse Prince of "once again chasing another pop culture trend" with his own circa-1994 name change. I guess how you make the call of Prince influencing TTD's name change depends on your angle from the prism of where you view the situation. TTD did follow Prince's lead by creating a symbol for himself, that's for sure, that winged-pen-with-initials, but he didn't try to make that his new name--that was strictly a brand symbol.

>

Sananda, Prince, and Michael each have and had their own very special voices, so I can't say one is over the other, overall. I simply admire each one's differences. Michael's vocal tics that he developed through his solo career do bother me, though. To me, his going pop messed with his style too much. I guess that attitude falls in line much like how people tired of Prince trying to rap in his music. Sometimes, to me, the thinness in Prince's voice along portions of his range stands out to me unfavorably. I've been pretty cool with all of Sananda's vocals, though, so I'll give him an extra big-up.

>

I do feel that Sananda is as mindful toward his creative output as he ever was. He has explained to people what he is doing. People can hear the changes of how he's proceeding today and decide that they don't like them, which is par for the course. The biggest and most freeing difference to him, I think, is his release from the committees that would vote against his choices. Like you say, that's his "fuck 'em" (critics be damned) attitude!

he's actually a damned fine writer and i love reading his musings. one of my favorite stories was when he said miles davis grabbed him by both shoulders, shook him and said "fuck 'em all!".

To me, TTD kinda lost it with the whole Sananda/pseudo deep philosophy thing. On the other hand, he always had that grandiose side to him. I feel that one thing that he is lacking in currently, is recording quality. A lot of his releases have old(er) tracks and you can really hear the difference, and I don't just mean the arrangements, which have gotten much sparser.

.

To each their own, but I've been having a hard time enjoying a full album after Wildcard. (like others here) I do follow what he's doing and buy some songs here and there to support what he's doing, as I really like his openness and letting us take a peek at his music as he's creating it. I might not dig all songs, but I like the process and often there's enough to enjoy in the tracks. (in spite of some cringe about his lyrics, not that that was any different with Prince though)

.

On another note, with this latest release, he seems to have finally released all the tracks that would have been on The Solar Return of Terence Trent D'Arby, so I'm compiling this precursor to Wildcard currently. If only I knew why Designated Fool and My Dark Places were supposed to be on there twice, as was alluded to in a previous post on the org years ago. Information on that album is very hard to find online. Anyone know Smak? He was quite knowledgeable, back in the day, even making the Sananda version of that TTD logo that is used to this day.

mediumdry said:

To me, TTD kinda lost it with the whole Sananda/pseudo deep philosophy thing. On the other hand, he always had that grandiose side to him. I feel that one thing that he is lacking in currently, is recording quality. A lot of his releases have old(er) tracks and you can really hear the difference, and I don't just mean the arrangements, which have gotten much sparser.

.

To each their own, but I've been having a hard time enjoying a full album after Wildcard. (like others here) I do follow what he's doing and buy some songs here and there to support what he's doing, as I really like his openness and letting us take a peek at his music as he's creating it. I might not dig all songs, but I like the process and often there's enough to enjoy in the tracks. (in spite of some cringe about his lyrics, not that that was any different with Prince though)

.

On another note, with this latest release, he seems to have finally released all the tracks that would have been on The Solar Return of Terence Trent D'Arby, so I'm compiling this precursor to Wildcard currently. If only I knew why Designated Fool and My Dark Places were supposed to be on there twice, as was alluded to in a previous post on the org years ago. Information on that album is very hard to find online. Anyone know Smak? He was quite knowledgeable, back in the day, even making the Sananda version of that TTD logo that is used to this day.

don't know smak, and ttd's, well you guys seem to have followed the post vibrator stuff way better than i have. I still like his writings, he wrote some great tributes to both Muhammad Ali and Prince on his page.

thetimefan said:

One hidden gem on Rise... are his covers of "If I Fell", "You gonna lose that girl" and Body and Soul". I'd like to hear a Sananda covers record where he sings classic songs. I think creatively he's avant-garde but even NFNF was avant garde in terms of the musical genres on it and that was a complete 180 in comparison to the pop soul of Introducing the hardline.

it wasn't as avante garde as everyone tried to say, their was plenty o' funk on that album and it was leagues past his great debut album artistically. Just too much ambition too soon and it killed the album, i really don't think it was his mouth. I don't think it was his record company either, going wierd in any kind of way on your second album isn't a good idea for anyone.

PeteSilas said:

thetimefan said:

One hidden gem on Rise... are his covers of "If I Fell", "You gonna lose that girl" and Body and Soul". I'd like to hear a Sananda covers record where he sings classic songs. I think creatively he's avant-garde but even NFNF was avant garde in terms of the musical genres on it and that was a complete 180 in comparison to the pop soul of Introducing the hardline.

it wasn't as avante garde as everyone tried to say, their was plenty o' funk on that album and it was leagues past his great debut album artistically. Just too much ambition too soon and it killed the album, i really don't think it was his mouth. I don't think it was his record company either, going wierd in any kind of way on your second album isn't a good idea for anyone.

Agreed. U have to establish a track record before that occurs.

Graycap23 said:

PeteSilas said:

it wasn't as avante garde as everyone tried to say, their was plenty o' funk on that album and it was leagues past his great debut album artistically. Just too much ambition too soon and it killed the album, i really don't think it was his mouth. I don't think it was his record company either, going wierd in any kind of way on your second album isn't a good idea for anyone.

Agreed. U have to establish a track record before that occurs.

.

In other news, NFNF made me a lifelong fan, I love the album. Whereas his first album was barely enough to get him noticed by me. I do recognize that the album was a bit too trippy for the general public. Much like Around The World In A Day (for many Prince's second album) was less so, but overal in the same neighbourhood.

mediumdry said:

Graycap23 said:

Agreed. U have to establish a track record before that occurs.

.

In other news, NFNF made me a lifelong fan, I love the album. Whereas his first album was barely enough to get him noticed by me. I do recognize that the album was a bit too trippy for the general public. Much like Around The World In A Day (for many Prince's second album) was less so, but overal in the same neighbourhood.

i loved it too, it was light years better than his debut production and songwriting wise. I still like the exuberance and rawness of his debut and consider it the best debut album ever.

You have heard Lewis Taylor's first album, right?

mediumdry said:

You have heard Lewis Taylor's first album, right?

never heard of them, if it's an artist post 90 i probably wouldn't be interested.

Well... if you like Prince, TTD, Marvin Gaye and multi-instrumentalists that can also sing and play well, with a sense of history and not afraid to try new things, that can rock and have soul.... Lewis Taylor's first album is as close to perfect as I can imagine any album be.

.

Yes, it is from '96, but with a pedigree that goes way back... try it and let me know what you think. Worst case scenario, you lose an hour. Best case, well....

mediumdry said:

I'm not hearing it.. can you give an example? I do hear that problem with TTD, he is very often just off key, generally a bit low.

mediumdry said:

I'm not hearing it.. can you give an example? I do hear that problem with TTD, he is very often just off key, generally a bit low.

ttd was off key a lot, thats a mammoth flaw in a singer of his ability but I love him anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I love TTD as well. Today I finally made the Solar Return album, based on an old tracklist I found. Even though it is basically a lot of tracks in alphabetical order, with Sweetness as first track, but it does have a nice flow. I made a double album out of it (or 4 LP "sides", in iTunes it is listed as 4 discs) and made a mock cover.

.

It's basically an expanded Wildcard album, but I might just prefer it to the official releases. And since there were already 3 versions, I think a 4th was warranted.

Graycap23 said:

I love Taylor but his bad habit of singing off key drives me nuts.

.

I've been listening to Lewis Taylor a lot to find what you refer to. I cannot. I think you might be thinking of someone else... can you tell me where he sings off key?

mediumdry said:

Graycap23 said:

I love Taylor but his bad habit of singing off key drives me nuts.

.

I've been listening to Lewis Taylor a lot to find what you refer to. I cannot. I think you might be thinking of someone else... can you tell me where he sings off key?

Every cd after his 1st.

I'll post some specfic songs later.

[Edited 6/12/17 9:47am]

The latest album is great. Tone deaf...

Window is the shit:

https://www.reverbnation....40-windows

Windows is from the Java records sessions and was released in 2001, iirc. It was a free song, back in the day. Easy enough to hear from the production values.

.

And indeed, nice song.

I'm still waiting on the emergence of Prometheus and Pandora. I'd like to collect the full CD compilation and I'd thought we'd have it by now . Sananda's last announcement after the completion of chapter 3 was that there are more songs that he is working to add to this album. My guess is that we'll see a final version available to purchase some time after Prince's remastered Purple Rain deluxe collection comes out and he can ride whatever wave of 1980s nostalgia is generated among that era's music lovers by that piece of work. At any rate this kind of timing for a release wouldn't be a bad idea for him for him to execute! People remembering other musicians from the era could wonder whatever happened to 'ole so-and-so and go looking to collect whatever product he has out there.

TTD is batshit crazy. He thinks he's a genius but he's just eccentric and a bit delusional...HAVING SAID THAT I love all his albums up to and including "Wildcard". The man has an amazing voice. He could have been one of the great Soul singers of all time had he not gone nuts. I really rooted for him when "Symphony Or Damn" came out. I was hoping he'd make a comeback because the album is marvelous. I hate to say it but Black singers never get a second chance. For example. Had a black rapper released an album as shitty as "Encore" by Eminem he would now be forgotten. I say this and I'm white BTW

homesquid said:

TTD is batshit crazy. He thinks he's a genius but he's just eccentric and a bit delusional...HAVING SAID THAT I love all his albums up to and including "Wildcard". The man has an amazing voice. He could have been one of the great Soul singers of all time had he not gone nuts. I really rooted for him when "Symphony Or Damn" came out. I was hoping he'd make a comeback because the album is marvelous. I hate to say it but Black singers never get a second chance. For example. Had a black rapper released an album as shitty as "Encore" by Eminem he would now be forgotten. I say this and I'm white BTW

Either that, or consider that maybe he's just a bit smarter than YOU. I think we're all a bit delusional in some aspect of our life at some point--we've all got to think big every once in a while to keep things moving. Regardless, I'd wager that Sananda is not going to be making the kind of comeback that you're currently looking out for. Dude has got his game figured out well enough to keep his enterprise going and family and friends enthralled. In this age of web media he knows the size of his following, I'm sure, and can appreciate the gift of its growth. His voice has held up well at his age. His second chance is going fine; there are folks who appreciate his style today, and that helps keep the music flowing. If he were to approach a major label today he would be signed, but he would never take that route due to the constraints that they would undoubtedly place upon his creativity; being such an eccentric has permanently placed him at odds with that scene.

>

I'm not getting your example with hip-hop and Eminem; all artists have their ups and downs, and if a stinker album gets put out and something else great or good follows, people would pick up the new stuff, given a listen. Per the singing end of the performance spectrum, unless the person just completely disrespects the genre in some way or committs a murder--even if you're talking about a "White" singer in a "Black" soul/R&B landscape--people can pick up their game and be acknowledged for their accomplishment.

Germanegro said:

homesquid said:

TTD is batshit crazy. He thinks he's a genius but he's just eccentric and a bit delusional...HAVING SAID THAT I love all his albums up to and including "Wildcard". The man has an amazing voice. He could have been one of the great Soul singers of all time had he not gone nuts. I really rooted for him when "Symphony Or Damn" came out. I was hoping he'd make a comeback because the album is marvelous. I hate to say it but Black singers never get a second chance. For example. Had a black rapper released an album as shitty as "Encore" by Eminem he would now be forgotten. I say this and I'm white BTW

Either that, or consider that maybe he's just a bit smarter than YOU. I think we're all a bit delusional in some aspect of our life at some point--

Naw that's not it. Believe me but anyway it's not unusual for such exceptionally gifted people to be a bit detacthed from reality. My post reads like an insult to TTD in retrospect but I have mega respect for him. I just wish (for hissake) he hadn't sabotaged his own career. He could have achieved nearly Prince-like levels of esteem. He clearly has the talent. His post-Wildcard output is hit and miss tho'. Like Prince post WB the "quality control" just isn't there, which dilutes a lot of inspired work. I admit I have always wanted him to just make a straight ahead soul album with tracks like "Holding On To You" and "If You Let Me Stay" because of that voice but I guess you could say "Hardline" was THAT album and he just wanted more. My comments about Eminem mean this. TTD experienced a flop ("Neither Fish Nor Flesh" despite being a great record) and despite coming back hard with an album brimming with potential hits he just wasn't given the time. Rap is a bit different so I want you to name one black rapper that had a flop album that made a comeback to the same level of fame as before. ONE. Eminem released a crap album "Encore" but it didn't slow him down a bit even tho' his comeback album was also rather shitty. I'm telling you it's white privilege. Show me one black rap artist/group that released an undenaiably flop/crap album and it didn't ruin their career. Just one is all I ask.

homesquid said:

Germanegro said:

Either that, or consider that maybe he's just a bit smarter than YOU. I think we're all a bit delusional in some aspect of our life at some point--

Naw that's not it. Believe me but anyway it's not unusual for such exceptionally gifted people to be a bit detacthed from reality. My post reads like an insult to TTD in retrospect but I have mega respect for him. I just wish (for hissake) he hadn't sabotaged his own career. He could have achieved nearly Prince-like levels of esteem. He clearly has the talent. His post-Wildcard output is hit and miss tho'. Like Prince post WB the "quality control" just isn't there, which dilutes a lot of inspired work. I admit I have always wanted him to just make a straight ahead soul album with tracks like "Holding On To You" and "If You Let Me Stay" because of that voice but I guess you could say "Hardline" was THAT album and he just wanted more. My comments about Eminem mean this. TTD experienced a flop ("Neither Fish Nor Flesh" despite being a great record) and despite coming back hard with an album brimming with potential hits he just wasn't given the time. Rap is a bit different so I want you to name one black rapper that had a flop album that made a comeback to the same level of fame as before. ONE. Eminem released a crap album "Encore" but it didn't slow him down a bit even tho' his comeback album was also rather shitty. I'm telling you it's white privilege. Show me one black rap artist/group that released an undenaiably flop/crap album and it didn't ruin their career. Just one is all I ask.

I can't squabble with your outline of Sandana's career, but yeah, imma' say that for you to raise an armchair diagnosis that the guy is a nut was way over, IMHO! From his TTD orgin, in the publicity game, he did what he did as young person coming fresh into the biz with a different idea on how to engage the press and it caused him some PR damage. A lot of people didn't like it--although I'd be cool with it. Boast as much as you like, no prob for me! I'll just laugh at yo' azz if the actual product comes out sounding silly.

>

As far as the hip-hop analysis is concerned, I see where white privilege can potentially come into play for white artists--the sheer number of people from that demographic of listeners (who could be less discerning in their taste? I don't know, just a random thought) can be vastly greater than the numbers tuning in to the majority of the pool of black artists, and as such, the white demographic could float the "lesser-Eminem" more support than they would to other, darker-skinned rappers. As far as the existence of black artists arising from a major breakdown, I'm not sweating the research on that. A case of that may not exist and you know what you're talking about; I'll just admit that I don't. What about a mediocre black artist, as a slightly variant scenario, however? If one was to raise their game and make some spectacular ish do you think some people might catch on and show that former-mediocre artist some love? I guess it only has to happen once to show some potential for success.

>

BTW, I wonder if Sananda would support a guest-rap on one of his tracks, someday, the same way that he utilizes a guest orchestra or lead guitarist in his compositions; it could be pretty hype if done right.