MotownSubdivision said:

Graycap23 said:

His music VIDEO'S is the reason. The actual music simply isn't that good.

[Edited 3/27/17 13:02pm]

The music is great. It doesn't have to be influential to be that. An artist doesn't have to have their own sound to be influential or great either. Future has his own sound and its been influential so he must be great according to your logic. [Edited 3/27/17 13:13pm]

Who?

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

MJ is the biggest selling solo artist of all time, most of his best sellers sold more in global international markets. So how could he possibly not be known for his music? Was this suppose to be a early April fools joke?

His music VIDEO'S is the reason. The actual music simply isn't that good.

[Edited 3/27/17 13:02pm]

1 billion people in the world disagree

If his music isn't that good, why does it sell so much? Why does he have so many hits? Why does he have so many classics? Why does his albums chart every single year? Why does his music out sell most of the current artists? Why does his music inspire and influence generations? Why does his music influence multiple genres? Why is he the biggest selling artist of all time? You don't sell over a billion units worth of music simply because of your music videos.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

Its obvious you dont favor Michael but cmon with this bullshit seriously. There have been plenty of producers, musicians, composers and artists that have mimicked and are influenced by Michael's sound and catalog.

Sorry..........what exactly is the Mj sound?

If you don't like his music, your not going to agree with how it is described. Again, I understand you don't care for him but to argue his music has not been influential to music is utter bullshit and beyond ridiculous. Even non-MJ fans will rationally acknowledge his impact and influence on music.

CMT All-Time Top 40: Michael Jackson
Country Stars Count Down Their Favorite Artists
September 20, 2014; Written by CMT Staff

Michael Jackson moonwalks in at No. 12 on the list of CMT All-Time Top 40: Artists Choice.

A list of the most influential artists in history chosen by countrystars themselves, another honoree is revealed each week on CMT Hot 20 Countdown.

Chris Young, Charlie Worsham, LeAnn Rimes, Kenny Rogers and The Band Perry were just some of the country stars who cited the "king of pop" as a major influence.

"You know, there's not a lot of people who have sold that many records or had an impact on music in general as much as Michael Jackson," said Young. "I have a lot of Michael songs downloaded on my phone. It probably rivals any one countryartist that I have, except for a couple of guys. I mean, I doubt anybody wouldn't want to have the size and scope of his musical career, I don't care what genre you're in."

"How can you not respect and love Michael Jackson as an artist," Worsham agreed. "That's a persona that didn't exist until there was Michael.

"He was a part of so many different eras of music, and he's one of those guys who it didn't matter whether he was the most popular thing at the time or not, you had to take note of what he was doing. His influence on groove and beat and rhythm and the way he infused dancing and entertainment -- not just being a fantastic musician and singer -- is something I think we can all learn from, especially in today's world. You can't just get up and sing. You have to entertain people, and he was the quintessential entertainer."

"I think I always seem to relate [to Jackson] in a lot of ways because I was such a kid, too, when I started out," Rimes said. "To me, he is one of the best singers that's ever lived and entertainers. He had the most insane voice of any 5-year-old that I've ever heard, and the way he connected with the crowd, the way he was so multi-talented and really good at every bit of it. His music ... lived on and will live on forever."

"I met and got to know Michael Jackson pretty well," Rogers said. "There's a guy that was so troubled, but he was so talented. I watched that This Is It documentary. The guy ... had 19-year-old kids out of breath from dancing with him. ... Music wasn't just something he did. That's what he was. He was his music. He not only sang great, but he danced great. He understood what his package was and how to do it."

"Michael Jackson's one of my very favorite performers of all time," said Kimberly Perry of The Band Perry. "And actually, when we get ready to put together an ACM or a CMA Awards performance, we start by looking for Michael Jackson videos. We are always intensely inspired by his dancing but also just his presence onstage.

"You know our performance for 'Done' at the ACMs [in 2013]? There was this Michael video where he was starting his show, and he popped on to the stage somehow and just stood there. Now, we stood there for like five seconds for dramatic effect [during the ACM performance], but he stood there for about a minute. And the crowd was just roaring."

"I think it got louder actually," Neil Perry added.

"I think he's so cool because he crossed all genre boundaries, national/international boundaries, race boundaries. Everybody was in love with this guy," Kimberly concluded. "Just a phenomenal entertainer."

click link to watch video of them discussing MJ's impact
http://www.cmt.com/news/c...er=unknown

Jay-Z Speaks On His Favorite Album Of All Time Off The Wall

Urban pop singer and songwriter Tinashe took our On the Record challenge, in which she was given 45 seconds to talk about one of her all-time favorite records. Here, she discusses one monumental track, Michael Jackson's "She's Out of My Life," from 1979's _Off the Wall_. "Not a lot of people can give that kind of emotional performance on a song," she tells us.

Well known public figures & artists talk about Michael Jackson and how he influenced them.

Bruno Mars: Love & Respect For Michael Jackson

The Weeknd On Michael Jackson

Lady Gaga talks about Michael Jackson being an enormous influence on her.

Professor John Covach discusses the impact of Michael Jackson on music and pop culture in America

The Atlantic: Michael Jackson was the most influential artist of the 20th century

Hampton Stevens Jun 24 2010, 11:37 AM ET



>
Epic

Michael Jackson was the most influential artist of the 20th century. That might sound shocking to sophisticated ears. Jackson, after all, was only a pop star. What about the century's great writers like Fitzgerald and Faulkner? What about visual artists, like Picasso and Dali, or the masters of cinema from Chaplin to Kubrick? Even among influential musicians, did Michael really matter more than the Beatles? What about Louis Armstrong, who invented jazz, or Frank Sinatra, who reinvented it for white people? Or Elvis Presley, who did the same with blues and gospel, founding rock in the process? Michael Jackson is bigger than Elvis? By a countrymile.



First, there is no question that musicians in the 20th century had far more cultural impact than any other sort of artist. There is no such thing, for instance, as a 20th-century painter that is more famous than an entertainer like Sinatra. There are no filmmakers or movie stars that had more cultural sway than The Beatles, and no 20th-century writers who touched more lives than Elvis. Consider that thousands of human beings, from Bangkok to Brazil, make their living by pretending to be Elvis Presley. When was the last time you saw a good impression of Picasso? Even Elvis, though, is overshadowed by Jackson's career.



First, with the possible exception of Prince and Sammy Davis Jr., Michael Jackson simply had more raw talent as a performer than any of his peers. But the King of Pop reigns as the century's signature artist not just because of his exceptional talent, but because he was able to package that talent in a whole new way. In both form and content, Jackson simply did what no one had done before.



Louis Armstrong, for instance, learned music as a live performer and adapted his art for records and radio. Sinatra and Elvis were also basically live acts who made records, ultimately expanding that on-stage persona into other media through sheer force of charisma. The Beatles were a hybrid; a once-great live band made popular by radio and TV, forced by their own fame to become rock's first great studio artists.



Jackson, though, was something else entirely. Something new. Obviously he made great records, usually with the help of Quincy Jones. Jackson's musical influence on subsequent artists is simply unavoidable, from his immediate followers like Madonna and Bobby Brown, to later stars like Usher and Justin Timberlake.



Certainly, Jackson could also electrify a live audience. His true canvas, though, was always the video screen. Above all, he was the first great televisual entertainer. From his Jackson 5 childhood, to his adult crossover on the Motown 25th anniversary special, to the last sad tabloid fodder, Jackson lived and died for on TV. He was born in 1958, part of the first generation of Americans who never knew a world without TV. And Jackson didn't just grow up with TV. He grew up on it. Child stardom, the great blessing and curse of his life, let him to internalize the medium's conventions and see its potential in a way that no earlier performer possibly could.

The result, as typified by the videos for "," was more than just great art. It was a new art form. Jacksonturned the low-budget, promotional clips record companies would make to promote a hit single into high art, a whole new genre that combined every form of 20th century mass media: the music video. It was cinematic, but not a movie. There were elements of live performance, but it was nothing like a concert. A seamless mix of song and dance that wasn't cheesy like Broadway, it was on TV but wildly different from anything people had ever seen on a screen.
The oft-repeated conventional wisdom—that Jackson's videos made MTV and so "changed the music industry" is only half true. It's more like the music industry ballooned to encompass Jackson's talent and shrunk down again without him. Videos didn't matter before Michael, and they ceased to matter at almost the precise cultural moment he stopped producing great work. His last relevant clip, "Black or White," was essentially the genre's swan song. Led by Nirvana and Pearl Jam, the next wave of pop stars hated making videos, seeing the entire format, and the channel they aired on, as tools of corporate rock.

The greatest impact of the music video wasn't on music, but video. That is, on film and television. The generation that grew up watching '80s videos started making movies and TV shows in the '90s, using MTV's once-daring stylistic elements like quick cuts, vérité-style hand-helds, nonlinear narrative and heavy visual effects and turning them into mainstream TV and film movie conventions.



If Jackson had only been a great musician who also invented music video, he still wouldn't have mattered as much. Madonna, his only worthy heir, was almost as gifted at communicating an aesthetic on-screen. The aesthetic Jacksoncommunicated, however, was much more powerful, liberating and globally resonant than hers. It was more powerful than what Elvis and Sinatra communicated, too. Hence, that whole "Most Influential Artist" thing.

http://www.theatlantic.co...e/58616/2/

Michael Jacksons influence on African American culture

Graycap23 said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

The Atlantic: Michael Jackson was the most influential artist of the 20th century

Hampton Stevens Jun 24 2010, 11:37 AM ET



>
Epic

Michael Jackson was the most influential artist of the 20th century. That might sound shocking to sophisticated ears. Jackson, after all, was only a pop star. What about the century's great writers like Fitzgerald and Faulkner? What about visual artists, like Picasso and Dali, or the masters of cinema from Chaplin to Kubrick? Even among influential musicians, did Michael really matter more than the Beatles? What about Louis Armstrong, who invented jazz, or Frank Sinatra, who reinvented it for white people? Or Elvis Presley, who did the same with blues and gospel, founding rock in the process? Michael Jackson is bigger than Elvis? By a countrymile.



First, there is no question that musicians in the 20th century had far more cultural impact than any other sort of artist. There is no such thing, for instance, as a 20th-century painter that is more famous than an entertainer like Sinatra. There are no filmmakers or movie stars that had more cultural sway than The Beatles, and no 20th-century writers who touched more lives than Elvis. Consider that thousands of human beings, from Bangkok to Brazil, make their living by pretending to be Elvis Presley. When was the last time you saw a good impression of Picasso? Even Elvis, though, is overshadowed by Jackson's career.



First, with the possible exception of Prince and Sammy Davis Jr., Michael Jackson simply had more raw talent as a performer than any of his peers. But the King of Pop reigns as the century's signature artist not just because of his exceptional talent, but because he was able to package that talent in a whole new way. In both form and content, Jackson simply did what no one had done before.



Louis Armstrong, for instance, learned music as a live performer and adapted his art for records and radio. Sinatra and Elvis were also basically live acts who made records, ultimately expanding that on-stage persona into other media through sheer force of charisma. The Beatles were a hybrid; a once-great live band made popular by radio and TV, forced by their own fame to become rock's first great studio artists.



Jackson, though, was something else entirely. Something new. Obviously he made great records, usually with the help of Quincy Jones. Jackson's musical influence on subsequent artists is simply unavoidable, from his immediate followers like Madonna and Bobby Brown, to later stars like Usher and Justin Timberlake.



Certainly, Jackson could also electrify a live audience. His true canvas, though, was always the video screen. Above all, he was the first great televisual entertainer. From his Jackson 5 childhood, to his adult crossover on the Motown 25th anniversary special, to the last sad tabloid fodder, Jackson lived and died for on TV. He was born in 1958, part of the first generation of Americans who never knew a world without TV. And Jackson didn't just grow up with TV. He grew up on it. Child stardom, the great blessing and curse of his life, let him to internalize the medium's conventions and see its potential in a way that no earlier performer possibly could.

The result, as typified by the videos for "," was more than just great art. It was a new art form. Jacksonturned the low-budget, promotional clips record companies would make to promote a hit single into high art, a whole new genre that combined every form of 20th century mass media: the music video. It was cinematic, but not a movie. There were elements of live performance, but it was nothing like a concert. A seamless mix of song and dance that wasn't cheesy like Broadway, it was on TV but wildly different from anything people had ever seen on a screen.
The oft-repeated conventional wisdom—that Jackson's videos made MTV and so "changed the music industry" is only half true. It's more like the music industry ballooned to encompass Jackson's talent and shrunk down again without him. Videos didn't matter before Michael, and they ceased to matter at almost the precise cultural moment he stopped producing great work. His last relevant clip, "Black or White," was essentially the genre's swan song. Led by Nirvana and Pearl Jam, the next wave of pop stars hated making videos, seeing the entire format, and the channel they aired on, as tools of corporate rock.

The greatest impact of the music video wasn't on music, but video. That is, on film and television. The generation that grew up watching '80s videos started making movies and TV shows in the '90s, using MTV's once-daring stylistic elements like quick cuts, vérité-style hand-helds, nonlinear narrative and heavy visual effects and turning them into mainstream TV and film movie conventions.



If Jackson had only been a great musician who also invented music video, he still wouldn't have mattered as much. Madonna, his only worthy heir, was almost as gifted at communicating an aesthetic on-screen. The aesthetic Jacksoncommunicated, however, was much more powerful, liberating and globally resonant than hers. It was more powerful than what Elvis and Sinatra communicated, too. Hence, that whole "Most Influential Artist" thing.

http://www.theatlantic.co...e/58616/2/

He is also the most influential artist in the 21st century. He has influenced the millenial generation as well.

LiLi1992 said:

Graycap23 said:

His music VIDEO'S is the reason. The actual music simply isn't that good.

[Edited 3/27/17 13:02pm]

Why does his catalog continue to sell so well around the world then? He constantly has albums in the charts of the largest countries. If it was only the videоs, his music would not have a future, it would have remained in the past, but no, he is still one of the best-selling artists of the era of the 70s-90s.

Not only that, his albums out sell the current artists. Last year he was hailed as the best selling pop male artist by Billboard because of his sales. He has been dead for 8 years now and his music is still selling, anybody arguing MJ is not known for his music is a straight hater by denying his legitimate receipts and impact. BAD was just certified a diamond album a month ago for crying out loud!

mjscarousal said:

LiLi1992 said:

Graycap23 said: Why does his catalog continue to sell so well around the world then? He constantly has albums in the charts of the largest countries. If it was only the videоs, his music would not have a future, it would have remained in the past, but no, he is still one of the best-selling artists of the era of the 70s-90s.

Not only that, his albums out sell the current artists. Last year he was hailed as the best selling pop male artist by Billboard because of his sales. He has been dead for 8 years now and his music is still selling, anybody arguing MJ is not known for his music is a straight hater by denying his legitimate receipts and impact. BAD was just certified a diamond album a month ago for crying out loud!

Indeed ... I think you can debate who had more influence, Madge or MJ, but to argue MJ's music wasn't of quality or it had no influence is plain crazy talk.

If anything, the more time goes by since his passing the better his sales might get as we move further away from the craziness MJ had in his life. Its rose tinted glasses but given enough time people stop focusing on the babies dangled off balconies and the children invited to share his bed and instead think more about the good stuff like the music and videos.

mjscarousal said:

LiLi1992 said:

Graycap23 said: Why does his catalog continue to sell so well around the world then? He constantly has albums in the charts of the largest countries. If it was only the videоs, his music would not have a future, it would have remained in the past, but no, he is still one of the best-selling artists of the era of the 70s-90s.

Not only that, his albums out sell the current artists. Last year he was hailed as the best selling pop male artist by Billboard because of his sales. He has been dead for 8 years now and his music is still selling, anybody arguing MJ is not known for his music is a straight hater by denying his legitimate receipts and impact. BAD was just certified a diamond album a month ago for crying out loud!

MJ's is unsophissticated music for stupid people who think they like their message deep. Like Adele fans or Coldplay fans.

And as with the Rrump and Brexit vote, there are millions of them out there.

He is a singer and a dancer, who nicked his most famous move. He is supremely over rated. The best bits of the MJ songs is all either Quincy Jones or Cleethorpes finest, Rod Temperton.

How do you measure influence?

RicoN said:

mjscarousal said:

Not only that, his albums out sell the current artists. Last year he was hailed as the best selling pop male artist by Billboard because of his sales. He has been dead for 8 years now and his music is still selling, anybody arguing MJ is not known for his music is a straight hater by denying his legitimate receipts and impact. BAD was just certified a diamond album a month ago for crying out loud!

MJ's is unsophissticated music for stupid people who think they like their message deep. Like Adele fans or Coldplay fans.

And as with the Rrump and Brexit vote, there are millions of them out there.

He is a singer and a dancer, who nicked his most famous move. He is supremely over rated. The best bits of the MJ songs is all either Quincy Jones or Cleethorpes finest, Rod Temperton.

I understand what could be the source of this post's enmity towards Michael Jackson as the Org,
and in particular, this forum, is obsessed with him to the point of idolization; it's super annoying.
And trust me, I think Thriller is definitely overrated and that Michael Jackson stopped coming up
with new ideas that were interesting after Dangerous.

But he's probably the most popular entertainer of the 20th century (for a good reason) and I think
you're either trolling hard or just writing vituperatively for the sake of it.

Dasein said:

How do you measure influence?

like being under the influence, say if someone's given you some jesus juice to drink.

Kid Rock.

RicoN said:

mjscarousal said:

Not only that, his albums out sell the current artists. Last year he was hailed as the best selling pop male artist by Billboard because of his sales. He has been dead for 8 years now and his music is still selling, anybody arguing MJ is not known for his music is a straight hater by denying his legitimate receipts and impact. BAD was just certified a diamond album a month ago for crying out loud!

MJ's is unsophissticated music for stupid people who think they like their message deep. Like Adele fans or Coldplay fans.

And as with the Rrump and Brexit vote, there are millions of them out there.

He is a singer and a dancer, who nicked his most famous move. He is supremely over rated. The best bits of the MJ songs is all either Quincy Jones or Cleethorpes finest, Rod Temperton.

What's wrong with unsophisticated music? Doesn't have to be Beethoven's fifth to be good. Elvis Hound Dog, Beatles I Want To Hold Your Hand ... they weren't sophisticated.

Or did you really mean 'people who don't like the same music I like are stupid'?

Much pop is sophisticated.

Because Michael Jackson basically defined what the music video was forever after... he is the most influential.

DaveT said:

RicoN said:

MJ's is unsophissticated music for stupid people who think they like their message deep. Like Adele fans or Coldplay fans.

And as with the Rrump and Brexit vote, there are millions of them out there.

He is a singer and a dancer, who nicked his most famous move. He is supremely over rated. The best bits of the MJ songs is all either Quincy Jones or Cleethorpes finest, Rod Temperton.

What's wrong with unsophisticated music? Doesn't have to be Beethoven's fifth to be good. Elvis Hound Dog, Beatles I Want To Hold Your Hand ... they weren't sophisticated.

Or did you really mean 'people who don't like the same music I like are stupid'?

Beethoven's 9th!

nothing is wrong with unsophisticated music, it's usually the best and most affecting. I was more on about his lyrics/message

people who don't like the same music as me are taseteless, not necessarily stupid. Lots of clever people like crap heavy metal, they are really clever, but still listen to shit!

paisleypark4 said:

Because Michael Jackson basically defined what the music video was forever after... he is the most influential.

He didn't though, that's revisionist and wrong. He just spent lots of money hiring talented people to make videos for him. Only 2 are any good really, Billy Jean and Thriller, which is just a riff on American Werewolf in London.

paisleypark4 said:

Because Michael Jackson basically defined what the music video was forever after... he is the most influential.

Mj pushed the video format so much so........that it over shadowed the actual music.

I can think of a few songs that I actually hated....but I like the video.

That is the impact that video has.

Where would Mj's career be........without the video? No where near where it is now.

Dasein said:

Michael Jackson was the closest thing to a consensual virtuoso performer that the late 20th century pop culture produced

Michael Jackson was inducted as one of America's irreplaceable dance treasure by the Dance Heritage Coalition

Dance comprises an entire world of spiritual and secular ideas, stories, emotions, and human experience, understood and expressed through movement. The rich history of dance in America serves as a reflection and a record of the nation's increasingly diverse, dynamic culture.
In the Fall of 1999, the Dance Heritage Coalition solicited nominations for America's Irreplaceable Dance Treasures: the First 100. Over 900 nominations from across the full range of American dance artistry, forms, and traditions were submitted and vetted through a three-stage process of selection committees made up of experts from across the country.
The list of America's Irreplaceable Dance Treasures: the First 100 is intended to heighten public interest in the magnificence and richness of America's dance heritage and the imperative to document and preserve it for future generations.

An irreplaceable dance treasure has:

- Made a significant impact on dance as an art form
- Demonstrated artistic excellence
- Enriched the nation's cultural heritage
- Demonstrated the potential to enhance the lives of future generations
- Shown itself worthy of national and international recognition

Every dancer inducted has an essay written about their impact on dance

Michael Jackson by Carrie Stern
Short version (10 pages)
http://www.danceheritage....tessay.pdf

Long version (21 pages)
http://www.danceheritage....gessay.pdf