gandorb said:

where's graycap?

@ 1:54, Bruno says: "Innovator is a very heavy word, I'm so honored, and it's a little ironic for me because I genuinely feel I'm just getting started"

It's not his fault these silly award shows wanna show him some love, yeah I'm the biggest Bruno fan around here and I'll be the first to say that he ain't NO innovator, but Bruno RARELY gets recognition in these type of award shows, he's the hardest working man in show buisness and yet all the accolades go to Beyoncé and her likes. I'm glad this happened.

And while he never broke any grounds musically, he really introduced this generation to many cool trends (that are influenced by the past, just like any other cool trends), his hairstyle is VERY popular amongst hair enthusiasts, even if he's mostly known for wearing fedoras. His funky dance moves and 90s hip hop swag are very popular trends nowadays, it's like Michael when he took those Fred Astaire moves, added some Jackie Wilson, some James Brown, some personal touches and then he formed his own style. Bruno also takes from JB, MJ, but IS HEAVILY influenced by Bobby Brown - Bell Biv Devoe new jack swing kinda style, which is a cool thing.

Shawy89 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Shawy89 said:

@ 1:54, Bruno says: "Innovator is a very heavy word, I'm so honored, and it's a little ironic for me because I genuinely feel I'm just getting started"

It's not his fault these silly award shows wanna show him some love, yeah I'm the biggest Bruno fan around here and I'll be the first to say that he ain't NO innovator, but Bruno RARELY gets recognition in these type of award shows, he's the hardest working man in show buisness and yet all the accolades go to Beyoncé and her likes. I'm glad this happened.

Shawy you know I'm a Bruno fan too and I defend him whenever I can from his detractors but as you and I both agree, he's in no way innovative. It's not his fault but at the same time it's still incorrect to award someone who isn't innovative an award for being innovative. Beyonce is overrewarded and overrated (I thought you liked her?) but her glut of undeserved awards and praise has nothing to do with Bruno receiving this award. He rarely gets recognized at award shows despite always putting on good live performances but because of that he shouldn't be getting awarded for something he isn't. I applaud Bruno for being the leading force in bringing old school sounds back to the mainstream. He's not the first mainstream act to have an old school flavor in his music but nowadays with pop music as rhythmless, soulless, undanceable, one dimensional and interchangeable as ever, Bruno's music stands out. However, being a trend-setter doesn't necessarily make someone an innovator. Bruno is simply bringing back what was heard before with a modern twist and that's cool but he shouldn't be getting heralded as original for doing so.

Of course. I agree with what you said. I think you and I share a very similar perspective or opinion when it comes to Bruno.

You know what, when 24K Magic (the single) came out, I was a bit disappointed, maybe felt weird, and here's why: I always thought that after Bruno made Unorthodox Jukebox, which is a very well-polished pop record, influenced by the sounds of the past, he will step up his game and do something completely "fresh". I'm not saying original, because that word never made sense to me, nothing is ever original. But still, I didn't want Bruno to be considered as a "dilettante" or a "carbon copy of Michael". I really hoped he'd work alone, experiment, think outside of the box (lyrically and sonically), hire new musicians, work with different folks in the field... and come up with an immaculate body of work, like Daft Punk did with Random Access Memories or like Kanye with MBDTF; Monumental pop music with many layers within, yet no sight of "copying" or "ripping off" a certain sound. Because, look, I know he can do that. He has a gift of melody, he knows what it takes to make a solid pop record, he's just NOT there yet for various reasons...

And I'd like to share a quote by one of my favorite filmmakers, Jean-Luc Goddard: "It doesn't matter where you take things from, what matters is where you take them to".

Bruno, currently, is still able to sing his ass off and dance and entertain, and he needed some material to do that on tour, hence the album 24K Magic which is packed with jams and throwback R&B songs (one of them is R&B perfection to me and y'all know it ). He's, like all of us, fond of that 90s R&B sound, and he wanted to be able to feel that emotion on stage.

As for experimentation, lyrical depth, musical innovation. I'm not sure if we'll ever see Bruno associated with those certain things, but I know he can pull it off. For now, I learned to enjoy the pop greatness that can be found in UJ and 24K (His debut is very mediocre but still it's his most famous album yet for obvious reasons: Radio-friendly music. It's the same reason why Ed Sheeran is now slaying the charts, because mediocre folk-pop-heartbreak-love ballads is what works best for the average listener today).

You mentioned Beyoncé, I don't like her as a person or as an artist. But I do like some of her songs and kinda appreciate or admire her for doing things differently with her Self-titled. I really dig that album, it kinda rings a bell now that I said it: Beyoncé WAS actually an artist that made throwback R&B soul music with a twist, until she worked on Self-titled and that's honestly a very well-made album, intriguing production, she, at times, sang about stuff that I don't relate to but yet it made perfect sense, and at times she really EXCELLED (like Rocket, or Partition). I don't like that she has to work with a SHITLOAD of people, but then again who doesn't these days ?

By the way, it seems that there's only few musicians who, nowadays, can make a pop record with funk, soul, R&B influences and still sound "fresh". Everyone is doing alternative, dark R&B hip hop music (like Solange, Bey, FKA Twigs, Weeknd...)

Even when Mark Ronson dropped Uptown Special, critics bashed him for making "shallow" funk music, and also the fact that the songs were "all over the place". Which is the same thing they bash Bruno with, except Bruno sings on his records.

MotownSubdivision said:

gandorb said:

Even Billboard's positive review of his award ceremony performance questioned his innovator status.

Well... they're right for once. Could I get a link to that review please?

www.billboard.com/articles/news/awards/7710219/2017-iheartradio-music-awards-performances-ranked

[Edited 3/6/17 15:29pm]

gandorb said:

MotownSubdivision said:

gandorb said: Well... they're right for once. Could I get a link to that review please?

www.billboard.com/articles/news/awards/7710219/2017-iheartradio-music-awards-performances-ranked

[Edited 3/6/17 15:29pm]

For some reason it is notn coming up as a link. They ranked his performance as the best of the 8 but had two statements that gently challenged the innovator title.

[Edited 3/6/17 17:09pm]

He is great, i love his music, his looks, his personality and him in general, is super cool. That said. he is not innovator at all. This award is a little foolish, but it doesn't take away anything from him.

Bruno himself has said several times that he isn't reinventing the wheel. He correctly noted that he is just getting started.

As long as he knows who he is and where he stands, then I don't see a problem.

Iheart simply invented a way to entice A-list artists like Bruno to show up to hype their brand.....simple as that.

innovator???...see?...this that bullshit im talkin about....they trying to force this boy down our collective throats...

RJOrion said:

innovator???...see?...this that bullshit im talkin about....they trying to force this boy down our collective throats...

an innovator?

I gotta pull out the the dictionary and see if they changed the meaning or something.....

Let me play devil's advocate and semantics for a minute here, just to present another idea here.

I believe in a music landscape like we have today where people produce dry, boring, uninventive, flat music. The good artists get lost in the haze of a producer credit's for those who can't hold a tune in a bucket, and can't whistle their way to the shower without auto-tune.

Bruno is 'innovative' (because that's the word we're using) in that he's brought back a sound we're all familiar with, and love greatly. "Tender Love" by Force MDs has been brought up more than once when talking about 24K Magic. I hear everything from Zapp, to Bell Biv Devoe on that record, in a fresh new way.

Everything goes in waves, and it's not surprising that something more retro-esque has become new again. It's a reflection of people's desires and tastes when it comes to music. They're tired of the tired. They're over the lame and shitty pop princess' wannabes and the claimants to the prince of pop throne. The Princes, the Tina Turners, the Michael Jacksons, the Whitneys, the George Michaels - all those voices that continued to pepper a mundane music scene are gone. Bruno isn't a savior of music, but he is one of the few folks (non-rock band) that play their music, write their songs, and can play what they put on record. They are doing what they admired; they're taking and emulating their legend's legacy into the new decade.

I think Cee Lo Green is another who is sort of doing that. The Lady Killer was one of those records; it's a great set. Bruno wrote "Fuck You", as a reminder. I welcome the injection of something fun and freshly/retro into the scene. I have great disdain for about 95% of what's on radio. It's just garbage, and most of it is forgotten in a year. No one's forgotten "Fuck You" when you mention it, or "Uptown Funk" or "Happy" or "Suit & Tie".

It's perhaps innovative that he's using old music, instead of new music. He's not created a new genre, but certainly helped in reminding people of when music was really good, and listenable from front to back, especially in a singles-driven market.

TrivialPursuit said:

Let me play devil's advocate and semantics for a minute here, just to present another idea here.

I believe in a music landscape like we have today where people produce dry, boring, uninventive, flat music. The good artists get lost in the haze of a producer credit's for those who can't hold a tune in a bucket, and can't whistle their way to the shower without auto-tune.

Bruno is 'innovative' (because that's the word we're using) in that he's brought back a sound we're all familiar with, and love greatly. "Tender Love" by Force MDs has been brought up more than once when talking about 24K Magic. I hear everything from Zapp, to Bell Biv Devoe on that record, in a fresh new way.

Everything goes in waves, and it's not surprising that something more retro-esque has become new again. It's a reflection of people's desires and tastes when it comes to music. They're tired of the tired. They're over the lame and shitty pop princess' wannabes and the claimants to the prince of pop throne. The Princes, the Tina Turners, the Michael Jacksons, the Whitneys, the George Michaels - all those voices that continued to pepper a mundane music scene are gone. Bruno isn't a savior of music, but he is one of the few folks (non-rock band) that play their music, write their songs, and can play what they put on record. They are doing what they admired; they're taking and emulating their legend's legacy into the new decade.

I think Cee Lo Green is another who is sort of doing that. The Lady Killer was one of those records; it's a great set. Bruno wrote "Fuck You", as a reminder. I welcome the injection of something fun and freshly/retro into the scene. I have great disdain for about 95% of what's on radio. It's just garbage, and most of it is forgotten in a year. No one's forgotten "Fuck You" when you mention it, or "Uptown Funk" or "Happy" or "Suit & Tie".

It's perhaps innovative that he's using old music, instead of new music. He's not created a new genre, but certainly helped in reminding people of when music was really good, and listenable from front to back, especially in a singles-driven market.

I absolutely loved reading this post!

If you look at how Merriam-Webster defines the word, you could be making a good argument
that in introducing something old "as if" it was new, then Bruno Mars is certainly meeting the re-
quirements for being innovative.

It's a crock of shit because there's not much innovation going on with Bruno Mars' music, but
semantically, like I said, you do make an excellent argument as he is trying to make what was
old new again as if it what was old is actually new.

TrivialPursuit I think you nailed it. It's sort of bittersweet. He's not innovative in the way Prince or MJ was but he's innovative in comparision to music today by using instruments to compose, arrange, sing live and keep music fresh and raw without beat driven gimmicks and souless dance pop music.

TrivialPursuit said:

wonder505 said:

TrivialPursuit I think you nailed it. It's sort of bittersweet. He's not innovative in the way Prince or MJ was but he's innovative in comparision to music today by using instruments to compose, arrange, sing live and keep music fresh and raw without beat driven gimmicks and souless dance pop music.

For anyone - I played devil's advocate. There is some truth in it, but ultimately I like Bruno. I'm not raving the Ooh Rah flag for him like I do others, but I enjoy his music. I do get a little bored w/ the braggadocio in some of the songs, but in general, I feel like it's the old brought into the new millennium too. He's not innovative with the production because it's been done, but it's certainly nicer to hear sometimes than another R&B or hip-hop song starting out with some tone deaf asshole grunting "uh ...uh... YEAH....uh... what.... uh..." My God I hate that shit so much.

This reminds me of a group from Australian called Confection. They are a husband & wife team that use the old keyboards and drum machines and make music today. They've been making music for a couple of decades. It's a foot in both worlds, like Bruno. Sneaky Sound System has the same synthy-pop sensibilities. (They're Australian, too).

I agree with what TrivialPursuit has said.

I think Janelle Monae is an example of someone whose music sounds funky and soulful (a la James Brown, Prince or Funkadelic), and yet futuristic, experimental and weird (a la Bowie, Kraftwerk, and yeah, Prince too)... "Mushrooms & Roses" from her debut is a really stand out track.

But you can't sound like this and be "mainstream". I really think it's damn hard for someone on Bruno's caliber to make something weird, and yet go platinum.

RJOrion said:

Cee-Lo Green is garbage too... his voice is unlistenable..seems like coonery

Man, aren't you tired of trolling? Go waste your time elsewhere.

Shawy89 said:

I agree with what TrivialPursuit has said.

I think Janelle Monae is an example of someone whose music sounds funky and soulful (a la James Brown, Prince or Funkadelic), and yet futuristic, experimental and weird (a la Bowie, Kraftwerk, and yeah, Prince too)... "Mushrooms & Roses" from her debut is a really stand out track.

But you can't sound like this and be "mainstream". I really think it's damn hard for someone on Bruno's caliber to make something weird, and yet go platinum.

I love Janelle's stuff. The ArchAndroid was such a great set of music, and The Electric Lady continued the vibe. She still has a few installments of the Cynthia story to finish. But I hope she wraps it soon and does something completely different again in the future.

It's funny that Prince was as mainstream as he wasn't. Yet he sent notes to George Michael, Whitney, Janelle, and Bruno. Even he saw the ones who had talent in there somewhere, and were worthy of attention (his or otherwise).

I agree with your "mainstream" comment. However, for lack of a better word (and as I pointed out earlier), isn't it rather innovative to bring that sort of sound to the mainstream and make it a hit? Another word for innovative is clever. And frankly, it is clever to put out such a song like "Uptown Funk" and have it be larger than a one-hit novelty song. These days, something like 24K Magic is weird compared to the bullshit by people like Chris Brown, Rihanna, and any random Disney star trying to break into the adult market. I'll take the former over the latter anyday.

I, for one, believe that nobody is an innovator as a whole. There are some artists like Stevie, The Beatles, Michael etc. that bring something new to what has been done before, a new element, new sound. It's not like Michael created a new music genre by himself, he added something to the pop/soul/r&b music.

Shawy89 said:

RJOrion said:

Cee-Lo Green is garbage too... his voice is unlistenable..seems like coonery

Man, aren't you tired of trolling? Go waste your time elsewhere.

you obviosly dont know what "trolling" is... grow up, Clown

RJOrion said:

Shawy89 said:

Man, aren't you tired of trolling? Go waste your time elsewhere.

you obviosly dont know what "trolling" is... grow up, Clown

Guys be nice, please. Or else get the fuck out of here.

TrivialPursuit said:

Shawy89 said:

I agree with what TrivialPursuit has said.

I think Janelle Monae is an example of someone whose music sounds funky and soulful (a la James Brown, Prince or Funkadelic), and yet futuristic, experimental and weird (a la Bowie, Kraftwerk, and yeah, Prince too)... "Mushrooms & Roses" from her debut is a really stand out track.

But you can't sound like this and be "mainstream". I really think it's damn hard for someone on Bruno's caliber to make something weird, and yet go platinum.

I love Janelle's stuff. The ArchAndroid was such a great set of music, and The Electric Lady continued the vibe. She still has a few installments of the Cynthia story to finish. But I hope she wraps it soon and does something completely different again in the future.

It's funny that Prince was as mainstream as he wasn't. Yet he sent notes to George Michael, Whitney, Janelle, and Bruno. Even he saw the ones who had talent in there somewhere, and were worthy of attention (his or otherwise).

I agree with your "mainstream" comment. However, for lack of a better word (and as I pointed out earlier), isn't it rather innovative to bring that sort of sound to the mainstream and make it a hit? Another word for innovative is clever. And frankly, it is clever to put out such a song like "Uptown Funk" and have it be larger than a one-hit novelty song. These days, something like 24K Magic is weird compared to the bullshit by people like Chris Brown, Rihanna, and any random Disney star trying to break into the adult market. I'll take the former over the latter anyday.

It has to do with marketing though.

A new sound is not exactly new, it's refined, altered in a personal way. Daft Punk took a lot from Kraftwerk, Philip Glass and Giorgio Moroder's playbooks but added some funk within... and of course with new technology you can always label, or market your sound as something "new" and "fresh". This is why whenever there's a song with vocoder singing in it, or even a talkbox... people quickly refer to Daft Punk.

I mean this is a very complex issue, all these philosophical questions have formed quite a compound centerpiece in the art world; "Does originality exist in art?". "What is original?", "What is true and what is fake?".... Especially music, every chord progression has been done before, every drum beat, probably every note of every bassline, every string arrangement.... so it all comes down to a combination of 1. Right timing 2. Smart marketing 3. Being talented. That way probably every artist can get away with "being heavily influenced" and therefore can make his brand stand out as something of sheer quality.

Jus a talented kid. Let im grow.