MickyDolenz said:

laurarichardson said:

My guess is RnB stations played "Dancing On The Ceiling" due to payola. I have never heard that song on RnB radio since the 80's not even on the RnB oldies stations.

All songs on Top 40 stations are on there by payola. Payola doesn't sell records. People are not going to buy record they don't like. They're not going to call in to the station to request it either. Many songs played on the radio flop. A record back then couldn't get to the top 10 without people buying it. So that means the R&B audience liked Dancing On The Ceiling enough to spend money on the 45 or the album it came from.

Payola includes the practice of record companies’ actually purchasing music to make a song or act appear more popular than they are. Back in the day the charts were calculated by sales and radio spins now that may not be the case today but you could use payola to boost your spins and sales.

I doubt very many people who like RnB music were buying “Dancing On The Ceiling” I am inclined to think that Motown who was shady as hell inflated the record spins and purchased singles to get a high chart position.

I can remember people clowning Lionel hard over the record not just music fans but radio D.Js.

phunkdaddy said:

Mickey who are you having this conversation with about the post Lionel Commodores music

being funk oriented?

I never saw anyone here say as much. Most people tuned the post Lionel Commodores out

after Nightshift. We both could agree that Lionel made his exit at the right time because their popularity would have waned just like EWF was waning by 1983. They were both replaced by Kool & The Gang as the Universal Band reaching audiences on R&B and pop radio. Meanwhile most r&b fans had turned their attention to all the synth funk bands up until 1986.

I even forgot the post Lionel lineup released an album called Rock Solid.

Like Laura mentioned no one was checking for the post Lionel Commodores after Nightshift and they

barely sniffed the charts again with Going To The Bank. Why the post Lionel Commodores were

releasing music for the Short Circuit soundtrack is a mystery to me especially with the musical

backbone of the group Milan Williams(keys) and Ronald LaPread(bass) still intact for a minute.

When they left it was really all she wrote.

As far as the popularity of Dancing On The Ceiling it was a given that it was gonna make

a splash on pop radio. I am surprised that it charted that high on R&B charts because I didn't hear

it that much as opposed to Say You, Say Me. Also folks didn't have to buy singles in mass quantity for it to chart high back in the day. Folks did request records on radio back then that's why some stations had a weekly most requested song of the day honor. When new singles came out

they often had what they called radio add ons so some had more than others and generally got

more airplay based off that and requests. So airplay and requests factored into chart success

back then. I don't know about now. I remember buying the Dancing On The Ceiling album and

forgiving Lionel for the first single but when I bought it home and listened to it I took it back to the

record store the next day and before I even got out the parking lot to the record store I sold

it to the first soccer mom I saw.

Thank you. I knew I was not crazy. Dancing On the Ceiling did not chart high on the RnB charts because people were actually buying it.

I don't like alot of Lionel's post-Can't Slow Down music,but I do like his 1992 single "Do It To Me".That song was surprisingly soulful.The bridge is my favorite part of the song....

my friends.....they say I'm a dreamer

to give us one more try

laurarichardson said:

I doubt very many people who like RnB music were buying “Dancing On The Ceiling” I am inclined to think that Motown who was shady as hell inflated the record spins and purchased singles to get a high chart position.

I can remember people clowning Lionel hard over the record not just music fans but radio D.Js.

If that's the case, how come Motown couldn't make El DeBarge successful? They tried pushing him pop. El didn't get the huge mainstream popularity like Lionel, Michael Jackson, Tina Turner, & Billy Ocean did. Your taste doesn't determine what other people like. You said you don't like Elvis Presley or country music, but Elvis is one of the biggest selling acts in history and lots of people visit Graceland every year. Country has been mainstream since the Garth Brooks/Shania Twain/Dixie Chicks days in the 1990s. Garth is also one of the biggest selling acts and the only one to have 7 diamond albums in the USA. Michael Jackson & The Beatles didn't even do that. Also, Adele makes adult contemporary music and she's one of the few modern acts who sells a lot of CDs. Lil' Wayne had more songs chart on the Hot 100 pop chart than any other act in history, including Elvis, James Brown, & The Beatles. Most of the R&B chart today are rap songs, so that's what's popular now. Yet people on this site is always saying what's popular now is no good (like trap beats), especially whenever a Beyoncé thread comes up. No, maybe it's more their taste is old fashioned. It's good music to the people who like it, and that's why it gets hundreds of millions of views on Youtube. Folks have complained about popular music since the big band era of the 1930s & 1940s.

El DeBarge is a truly talented guy,but Motown never paired him with the right producer.They weren't willing to spend the big bucks Can you imagine how El's career would have turned out if Motown arranged for Jam and Lewis to produce an album for him? Or gotten Quincy Jones to produce his album? As I understand it,Motown was having some financial problems around that time (mid-to-late 80s) and they were trying to cut costs.El would have thrived if he was on a label that was willing to spend the big bucks to promote him.

MickyDolenz said:

If that's the case, how come Motown couldn't make El DeBarge successful? They tried pushing him pop. El didn't get the huge mainstream popularity like Lionel, Michael Jackson, Tina Turner, & Billy Ocean did.

I apologize to the OP for going wildly off-topic

sooooo.....what's going on with Lionel and Mariah? Have the new dates been announced?

MickyDolenz said:

laurarichardson said:

I doubt very many people who like RnB music were buying “Dancing On The Ceiling” I am inclined to think that Motown who was shady as hell inflated the record spins and purchased singles to get a high chart position.

I can remember people clowning Lionel hard over the record not just music fans but radio D.Js.

If that's the case, how come Motown couldn't make El DeBarge successful? They tried pushing him pop. El didn't get the huge mainstream popularity like Lionel, Michael Jackson, Tina Turner, & Billy Ocean did. Your taste doesn't determine what other people like. You said you don't like Elvis Presley or country music, but Elvis is one of the biggest selling acts in history and lots of people visit Graceland every year. Country has been mainstream since the Garth Brooks/Shania Twain/Dixie Chicks days in the 1990s. Garth is also one of the biggest selling acts and the only one to have 7 diamond albums in the USA. Michael Jackson & The Beatles didn't even do that. Also, Adele makes adult contemporary music and she's one of the few modern acts who sells a lot of CDs. Lil' Wayne had more songs chart on the Hot 100 pop chart than any other act in history, including Elvis, James Brown, & The Beatles. Most of the R&B chart today are rap songs, so that's what's popular now. Yet people on this site is always saying what's popular now is no good (like trap beats), especially whenever a Beyoncé thread comes up. No, maybe it's more their taste is old fashioned. It's good music to the people who like it, and that's why it gets hundreds of millions of views on Youtube. Folks have complained about popular music since the big band era of the 1930s & 1940s.

El Debarge was not promoted by Motown because he was high out of his ass. Ex Motown executives said so on Unsung. El messed his own carreer up.

I am not going to waste my time explaining payola/ record company purchases to you anymore

You believe what you want to believe and I never said anything about country or Elvis not being popular I just do not understand why you think people on this board care about Elvis or country music? Prince is our Elvis.

laurarichardson said:

El Debarge was not promoted by Motown because he was high out of his ass. Ex Motown executives said so on Unsung. El messed his own carreer up.

I am not going to waste my time explaining payola/ record company purchases to you anymore

You believe what you want to believe and I never said anything about country or Elvis not being popular.

Since when does being on drugs stop anyone from being successful in the music business or Hollywood? If that was the case, The Rolling Stones, Whitney Houston, The Beatles, Ozzy Osbourne, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, Mötley Crüe, and many others wouldn't have sold a lot. Some of the managers and record label CEOs did drugs too. Marvin Gaye & Rick James were on drugs and they was on Motown. Marvin was one of their most successful acts.

laurarichardson said:

I just do not understand why you think people on this board care about Elvis or country music? Prince is our Elvis.

This is the non-Prince section, so what does he have to do with anything posted in this part? You don't see me posting in his section. I don't think many of the people who post in the Prince section, even look at this part of the site. If they do, they never post or comment, no matter what the topic is. Most threads started in this section die pretty quickly unless it's about Madonna, Beyoncé, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, or the Jackson family, and then it's usually because trolls always start mess in them, and then it devolves into arguments. So you can't say that the most of the other threads not about country are any more popular here.

.

You did comment in another thread about why there was so many country acts on the Grammys instead of R&B acts. That's because in the mainstream, country is more popular than R&B, so major 4 TV networks are more likely going to feature someone who is going to draw more viewers to watch their program. That's why I said what you like doesn't have anything to do with what is popular or what other people like.

Since when does being on drugs stop anyone from being successful in the music business or Hollywood? If that was the case, The Rolling Stones, Whitney Houston, The Beatles, Ozzy Osbourne, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, Mötley Crüe, and many others wouldn't have sold a lot. Some of the managers and record label CEOs did drugs too. Marvin Gaye & Rick James were on drugs and they was on Motown. Marvin was one of their most successful acts.

Dude you do not read well. I am telling you two Motown ex said on the program Unsung that the company stopped promoting El because of drug use. If the record company decides they do not want to put money into you because of you drug antics they are done. El was not at the sales level of the groups you mentioned and he was not white the last time I looked.

----

Because the other artist posted in this forum are performing pop/rnb music. You ever notice the small amount of interest in the country crap you post on this board. I do not see the point of it.

Please see the article below. County music is not the top selling genre of music it just appears it is because the media keeps trying to jam it down our throats.

http://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/rock-music-twice-popular-pop-america-rb-rules-streaming/

MickyDolenz said:

laurarichardson said:

El Debarge was not promoted by Motown because he was high out of his ass. Ex Motown executives said so on Unsung. El messed his own carreer up.

I am not going to waste my time explaining payola/ record company purchases to you anymore

You believe what you want to believe and I never said anything about country or Elvis not being popular.

Since when does being on drugs stop anyone from being successful in the music business or Hollywood? If that was the case, The Rolling Stones, Whitney Houston, The Beatles, Ozzy Osbourne, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, Mötley Crüe, and many others wouldn't have sold a lot. Some of the managers and record label CEOs did drugs too. Marvin Gaye & Rick James were on drugs and they was on Motown. Marvin was one of their most successful acts.

laurarichardson said:

I just do not understand why you think people on this board care about Elvis or country music? Prince is our Elvis.

This is the non-Prince section, so what does he have to do with anything posted in this part? You don't see me posting in his section. I don't think many of the people who post in the Prince section, even look at this part of the site. If they do, they never post or comment, no matter what the topic is. Most threads started in this section die pretty quickly unless it's about Madonna, Beyoncé, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, or the Jackson family, and then it's usually because trolls always start mess in them, and then it devolves into arguments. So you can't say that the most of the other threads not about country are any more popular here.

.

You did comment in another thread about why there was so many country acts on the Grammys instead of R&B acts. That's because in the mainstream, country is more popular than R&B, so major 4 TV networks are more likely going to feature someone who is going to draw more viewers to watch their program. That's why I said what you like doesn't have anything to do with what is popular or what other people like.

^^I clicked on your article here's a chart for album sales (rather than streaming).

R&B/hip hop is only 2 percent more than country. Country is also slightly ahead of pop, but pretty much even. It's not R&B in itself that makes it ahead of country. It's because it's combined with hip hop. Hip hop is what is popular. Without hip hop, R&B wouldn't have that much by itself. There's rap in some country songs now, and there's an entire sub genre called "hick hop".

.

These are the top 15 albums on this weeks Billboard album charts for the Top 200 (pop chart) and R&B/Hip Hop. There's few actual R&B albums on both. The majority are rap albums. On the R&B chart, there's only 3 out of 15 albums that could be considered R&B, which are Bruno Mars, Rihanna, & The Weeknd. If you count the RCA Vol. 4 compilation that has songs from different genres, then 4. On the pop chart there's 2 R&B albums - Bruno Mars & The Weeknd, they're on both charts. There's 4 rap albums, 2 of them by the same person (Future) and 3 country albums. One of them is a compilation by Garth Brooks. So it is hip hop that is more popular than country, not R&B. Or country might be even with hip hop, depending on how much of the 14% is rap and how much is R&B.

.

Billboard 200
1 Future - Hndrxx
2 Future - Future
3 Bruno Mars - 24K Magic
4 Little Big Town - The Breaker
5 Soundtrack - Trolls
6 Migos - Culture
7 The Weeknd - Starboy
8 Soundtrack - Moana
9 Big Sean - I Decided.
10 Aaron Watson - Vaquero
11 Soundtrack - La La Land
12 Soundtrack - Fifty Shades Darker
13 John Mayer - The Search For Everything: Wave Two (EP)
14 Metallica - Hardwired...To Self-Destruct
15 Garth Brooks - The Ultimate Collection


R&B/Hip-Hop Albums
1 Future - Hndrxx
2 Future - Future
3 Bruno Mars - 24K Magic
4 Migos - Culture
5 The Weeknd - Starboy
6 Big Sean - I Decided.
7 Post Malone - Stoney
8 Drake - Views
9 Rihanna - Anti
10 Various Artists - The RCA-List, Vol 4
11 Chance The Rapper - Coloring Book
12 Nav - Nav
13 J. Cole - 4 Your Eyes Only
14 Travis Scott - Birds In The Trap Sing McKnight
15 Rae Sremmurd - Sremmlife 2