jjhunsecker said:

214 said:

I was about to say the same as soon as i read the quoted post.

But it does make me question if his music criticism of one specific Black woman is necessarily "racially motivated", (as some seem to imply) , especially in light of his own personl life and history of activism , and who his professed music heroes happen to be

[Edited 2/16/17 13:00pm]

I highly doubt it Carlos doesnt rub me as racist. His comment seemed like a passing thing. The model songs part was a little shady though considering he did perform with her before.

heathilly said:

214 said:

You're damn right sir.

Finally someone with some sense.

Please re-read the original post thatt I was responding to. The orger caimed that Sanatana was OK with Jennifer Lopez's music, while daring to criticize Beyonce for putting glitz and showmanship over music. To me, the clear implication was that his opinion was racially motivated. I responded by not only pointing out that all hsi personal musical heroes were Black, but he has fought for civil rights, and enetered in the closest personal relationships with black women. That would sure be a FUNNY way to express "racial bias"

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

But it does make me question if his music criticism of one specific Black woman is necessarily "racially motivated", (as some seem to imply) , especially in light of his own personl life and history of activism , and who his professed music heroes happen to be

[Edited 2/16/17 13:00pm]

I highly doubt it Carlos doesnt rub me as racist. His comment seemed like a passing thing. The model songs part was a little shady though considering he did perform with her before.

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

Finally someone with some sense.

Please re-read the original post thatt I was responding to. The orger caimed that Sanatana was OK with Jennifer Lopez's music, while daring to criticize Beyonce for putting glitz and showmanship over music. To me, the clear implication was that his opinion was racially motivated. I responded by not only pointing out that all hsi personal musical heroes were Black, but he has fought for civil rights, and enetered in the closest personal relationships with black women. That would sure be a FUNNY way to express "racial bias"

Yes that poster put a racial angle on it and I understood that and I understood your point of view too. But I was saying in general just because someone has a fav black whatever doesnt negate them from being racist. Ive met alot of racist people who love Jimi hendrix and Michael Jackson and it was odd and disturbing but thats besides the point. Anyway thats why I brought up compartmentalization.

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

I highly doubt it Carlos doesnt rub me as racist. His comment seemed like a passing thing. The model songs part was a little shady though considering he did perform with her before.

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

If thats the case I wonder what he though about MJ whos litterally the poster child for extravagent shows and dancing and props and smoke and lights etc. He did do whatever happens with him. At the sametime I think it also has to do with someoone old rejecting something new and different which is natural.

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

Please re-read the original post thatt I was responding to. The orger caimed that Sanatana was OK with Jennifer Lopez's music, while daring to criticize Beyonce for putting glitz and showmanship over music. To me, the clear implication was that his opinion was racially motivated. I responded by not only pointing out that all hsi personal musical heroes were Black, but he has fought for civil rights, and enetered in the closest personal relationships with black women. That would sure be a FUNNY way to express "racial bias"

Yes that poster put a racial angle on it and I understood that and I understood your point of view too. But I was saying in general just because someone has a fav black whatever doesnt negate them from being racist. Ive met alot of racist people who love Jimi hendrix and Michael Jackson and it was odd and disturbing but thats besides the point. Anyway thats why I brought up compartmentalization.

I would think, in general, liking a particular musician who may be of a different race, and marrying and living with and having a family with and creating a life with someone of a different background may not necessarily be in the same sphere of things, in terms of how you relate to that race ...it's POSSIBLE, but I wonder how likely

[Edited 2/16/17 13:29pm]

jjhunsecker said:

Chancellor said:

I Love Santana and The Rock KING has a right to speak his mind, but he always praises Jennifer Lopez and her FINE but non-singing azz self...He'll never TRASH a fellow Latino/Latina Artist but he's loose with the Tongue when it comes to Negros...

Yeah, Santana can sit down on that one...

Don't know if this is relevant, but I'll put this out there : you do know that Carlos Santana was previously mariied to and is currently married to Black women ? His curent wife is a drummer

I was about to point that out,too it's ridiculous for anyone to think that Carlos is racist just because he dared to criticize Beyonce

...

[Edited 2/16/17 13:29pm]

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

If thats the case I wonder what he though about MJ whos litterally the poster child for extravagent shows and dancing and props and smoke and lights etc. He did do whatever happens with him. At the sametime I think it also has to do with someoone old rejecting something new and different which is natural.

The thing is there is nothing new or different about Beyonce. She's been in the business since the 90s and everything she brings to the table has already been brought.

Maybe if this were 1997 instead of 2017, you could accuse Carlos of hating on the new kid on the block.

[Edited 2/16/17 13:34pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

If thats the case I wonder what he though about MJ whos litterally the poster child for extravagent shows and dancing and props and smoke and lights etc. He did do whatever happens with him. At the sametime I think it also has to do with someoone old rejecting something new and different which is natural.

The thing is there is nothing new or different about Beyonce. She's been in the business since the 90s and everything she brings to the table has already been brought.

When I said something new I was more talking about the sound of contemporary music that beyonce inhabits. Older people hate newer music.

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The thing is there is nothing new or different about Beyonce. She's been in the business since the 90s and everything she brings to the table has already been brought.

When I said something new I was more talking about the sound of contemporary music that beyonce inhabits. Older people hate newer music.

All right but even then, how often has he criticized current music and its artists? Is Carlos notorious for knocking new mainstream acts?

jjhunsecker said:

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

Carlos' favorite artists are people like Miles Davis,Aretha Franklin,and of course he really liked Prince.Beyonce has talent but too often,she relies on gimmicks,props and other visual distractions.She constantly makes "visual albums" instead of just letting her music speak for itself.Adele gets up onstage and simply SINGS.Her voice and her voice alone is what people experience and it's refreshing to see.I think that's what Carlos was trying to say.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

When I said something new I was more talking about the sound of contemporary music that beyonce inhabits. Older people hate newer music.

All right but even then, how often has he criticized current music and its artists? Is Carlos notorious for knocking new mainstream acts?

I really couldnt tell you because I dont know squat about carlos but I did see a video of him calling all new music shallow hollow synthetic plastic and unnecessary. Which he has a point though

Carlos Santana with his wife,drummer Cindy Blackman

SoulAlive said:

jjhunsecker said:

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

Carlos' favorite artists are people like Miles Davis,Aretha Franklin,and of course he really liked Prince.Beyonce has talent but too often,she relies on gimmicks,props and other visual distractions.She constantly makes "visual albums" instead of just letting her music speak for itself.Adele gets up onstage and simply SINGS.Her voice and her voice alone is what people experience and it's refreshing to see.I think that's what Carlos was trying to say.

I agree with this he was probally try to say something like this. But the only problem I have with this is the whole if sit on a stool and play a guitar or stand in one place and sing its makes you more of an artist. Than someone who simply is performs in the way of Lady Gaga MJ Beyonce etc.

heathilly said:

namepeace said:

You're discussing concepts of compartmentalization in quite the absolutist tone.

No need to heath-splain, friend.

We got you.

[Edited 2/16/17 10:48am]

heath-splain? I think everything I said has been pretty fair minded and factual.

Again, I understood your point, and I actually said it was well taken. But you took it a bit further than that by presuming folks don't understand compartentalization or human psychology.

They understood what you were saying, they just had a different take on the degree and context of compartmentalization in this particular case.

Which is why I suggested that you weren't being exactly fair to Carlos Santana, given the factual background of his marriage and family.

namepeace said:

heathilly said:

namepeace said: heath-splain? I think everything I said has been pretty fair minded and factual.

Again, I understood your point, and I actually said it was well taken. But you took it a bit further than that by presuming folks don't understand compartentalization or human psychology.

They understood what you were saying, they just had a different take on the degree and context of compartmentalization in this particular case.

Which is why I suggested that you weren't being exactly fair to Carlos Santana, given the factual background of his marriage and family.

For the third time I was never speaking about carlos I was speaking in generalities. As far as further explaining human sike I wanted to get my point across properly and already cleared this up with babynoz.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

If thats the case I wonder what he though about MJ whos litterally the poster child for extravagent shows and dancing and props and smoke and lights etc. He did do whatever happens with him. At the sametime I think it also has to do with someoone old rejecting something new and different which is natural.

The thing is there is nothing new or different about Beyonce. She's been in the business since the 90s and everything she brings to the table has already been brought.

Maybe if this were 1997 instead of 2017, you could accuse Carlos of hating on the new kid on the block.

[Edited 2/16/17 13:34pm]

But now she's presented as this supreme goddess that no one can dare disagree with, and her loss of the Grammy for Album of the year is presented as a national tragedy on par with the assissination of JFK

SoulAlive said:

jjhunsecker said:

He has a very purist ideal of artists expressing themselves , without regard to commerce or how they are perceived by the industry. I'm sure at least part of his sees Beyonce as part of the music industry "machine", with all her glitz and glamor and fragrences and clothing lines and commercials and videos....and he probably sees Madonna and Kary Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink the exact same way

Carlos' favorite artists are people like Miles Davis,Aretha Franklin,and of course he really liked Prince.Beyonce has talent but too often,she relies on gimmicks,props and other visual distractions.She constantly makes "visual albums" instead of just letting her music speak for itself.Adele gets up onstage and simply SINGS.Her voice and her voice alone is what people experience and it's refreshing to see.I think that's what Carlos was trying to say.

Exactly ! What Santana praises is musical artistry, as opposed to "show business" (Which is probably how he perceives Beyonce)

heathilly said:

SoulAlive said:

Carlos' favorite artists are people like Miles Davis,Aretha Franklin,and of course he really liked Prince.Beyonce has talent but too often,she relies on gimmicks,props and other visual distractions.She constantly makes "visual albums" instead of just letting her music speak for itself.Adele gets up onstage and simply SINGS.Her voice and her voice alone is what people experience and it's refreshing to see.I think that's what Carlos was trying to say.

I agree with this he was probally try to say something like this. But the only problem I have with this is the whole if sit on a stool and play a guitar or stand in one place and sing its makes you more of an artist. Than someone who simply is performs in the way of Lady Gaga MJ Beyonce etc.

And unlike Beyonce, Lady Gaga and Michael Jackson (and even Britney Spears) have actually proven to write music.

[Edited 2/16/17 15:48pm]

214 said:

babynoz said:

I dunno, I laughed when he fell down the stairs and did his whole intro wearing one shoe.

When his dad was in the audience with the hot girl on his lap, then his mom and the hot dude.

But i watch his show often, so.....

That guy is annoying. Wich one is the hot guy? i see not hot guy.

The hot guy was sitting on his mom's lap.

heathilly said:

babynoz said:

Sure I read it. However, we were discussing Santana's comments and there is no logic in you bringing up compartmentalization in that context if you were not trying to apply it to him, is there?

You tried it on the low and got called on it. Using my three little words to interject that concept and concluding that I must not understand human psychology is quite a stretch.

I was replying to jjhunsecker comment further up the thread because his comment sounded naive. I truly and honestly could careless about Carlos existent much less his comment or who he's with. His music is irrelevant to me. So no need to try something on the "low". I think you just took my statement out of context.

How could I have taken something out of context when you quoted me? All I did was agree with Namepeace and got pounced on and accused of not understanding human psychology.

All he did was correctly point out that having black wives and kids is a little deeper than having "black friends".

jjhunsecker said:

jjhunsecker said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The thing is there is nothing new or different about Beyonce. She's been in the business since the 90s and everything she brings to the table has already been brought.

Maybe if this were 1997 instead of 2017, you could accuse Carlos of hating on the new kid on the block.

[Edited 2/16/17 13:34pm]

But now she's presented as this supreme goddess that no one can dare disagree with, and her loss of the Grammy for Album of the year is presented as a national tragedy on par with the assissination of JFK

Well hell, 22 isn't nearly enough, ya know. A godess can never have too many grammies.

jjhunsecker said:

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

214 said:

That guy is annoying. Wich one is the hot guy? i see not hot guy.

The hot guy was sitting on his mom's lap.

His mom was sitting on Nick Jonas' lap (not pictured above) and Heidi Klum was sitting on his father's lap.

Hudson said:

babynoz said:

The hot guy was sitting on his mom's lap.

His mom was sitting on Nick Jonas' lap (not pictured above) and Heidi Klum was sitting on his father's lap.

Thanks, I know not who these people were.

Hudson said:

babynoz said:

The hot guy was sitting on his mom's lap.

His mom was sitting on Nick Jonas' lap (not pictured above) and Heidi Klum was sitting on his father's lap.

Nick Jonas certainly is a hot dude, and that ass,though.

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

Musicslave said: Decent point

As an older person, I find it hard to grasp how someone could think there was LESS racism in 1974 than there is now (which is NOT to say it's been eliminated) . I think a Stevie Wonder today would be just as praised as he was in the 1970s. Where I DO agree where there is a divide over tastes , it involves hip-hop music, or what is perceived as related to it (such as Beyonce). Many Grammy voters are trained musicians and songwriters, and they see hip-hop as less "musical", and it's practitioners as less "skilled". Probably something similar to what Keith Richards (a man who worships Black musicians) once said : to paraphrase Keith, Blacks used to make the greatest music- Blues, Jazz, Soul, R&B, Gospel- and now it's just "pushing buttons" and "making beats"...

Great post!

Anybody who argues that there is more racism in today's industry compared to the past does not know their history. This is an entitled generation and I am sick and tired of people calling "racism" on everything when that is not necessarily the case.