Interesting.

Shameful

I wanted to sit through this, but the hosts are terrible and are stumbling with stating the facts. They can't even tell you janet's middle name/album and can't decipher when britney sold records and some other things that are making my ears bleed....

alphastreet said:

I wanted to sit through this, but the hosts are terrible and are stumbling with stating the facts. They can't even tell you janet's middle name/album and can't decipher when britney sold records and some other things that are making my ears bleed....

>

I agree. Some of the facts are just...

They credited MMMBop to Justin Timberlake...

But I just posted to get a point of view outside of the org echo chamber.

Based on these comments, watching the video will probably make me even more pissed! lol However, I do agree that Janet Jackson has been black balled for some time by the industry. She is very underrated and does not get the respect and honor that she deserves.

IDK after Velvet Rope she kind just fell into a rutt to me

Janet Jackson: A Displaced Legend

mjscarousal said:

Based on these comments, watching the video will probably make me even more pissed! lol However, I do agree that Janet Jackson has been black balled for some time by the industry. She is very underrated and does not get the respect and honor that she deserves.

I agree as well, though there have been moments where she was respected again eg. unbreakable release, number ones tour, feedback charting higher than in years etc. it was just never the same buzz. It saddens me that some of her older, underrated work gets ignored as a result.

The industry didn't black-ball Janet Jackson. Instead, her fans grew up. And when we grow up,
we leave behind certain features associated with the past. I grew up listening to Michael Jackson
and Prince. But at some point, my monkey ass got old and I stopped really caring about them as I
discovered new artists to enjoy who fit my old-ass worldview better than two Jheri curl black guys
from the 80s who looked like chicks.

The same thing probably happened with Janet Jackson. Stars, literally and figuratively, do not
burn forever. Cosmologists and astronomers all realize that at some point, the Sun will die. The
same can be said of Janet Jackson's career and popularity.

Dasein said:

The industry didn't black-ball Janet Jackson. Instead, her fans grew up. And when we grow up,
we leave behind certain features associated with the past. I grew up listening to Michael Jackson
and Prince. But at some point, my monkey ass got old and I stopped really caring about them as I
discovered new artists to enjoy who fit my old-ass worldview better than two Jheri curl black guys
from the 80s who looked like chicks.

The same thing probably happened with Janet Jackson. Stars, literally and figuratively, do not
burn forever. Cosmologists and astronomers all realize that at some point, the Sun will die. The
same can be said of Janet Jackson's career and popularity.

I also agree with you here, cause though I still listened to janet, I wasn't listening to her consistently anymore about a year before then, and I had posters of her before and had seen her numerous times. Was still a fan but not obsessive like then though I still go to her tours. My music taste in general changes all the time, and still does...but though many got over mj, also cause of having their own lives to tend to as well and growing up, he still had a major fanbase in other parts of the world, and though I know his numbers got lower and lower, thosewere a lot higher than janet's post-superbowl era, and his past was more appreciated than hers until it took certain things with her like a tour to re-launch herself or a movie. Having said that, though I think both are still cool cause I grew up with them and inspired me, I do listen to janet way more these cause she's soothing, and he just gives me a headache because I'm angry all over again about what happened to him and really avoid thinking about it and have gotten better at it. In fact, if I'm talking about him with anyone these days, it's only here and I try to focus on the positive memories when his music brought that to my life, rather than focusing on his.

[Edited 12/20/16 12:19pm]

It pretty much can be summed up in she never was that powerful and justin timberlake. Shes black and a women and has to be perfect at all times but she portrayed herself as sex kitten and that takes away from a respectability she couldve had which wouldve led to more power and clout.

Now imagine the same superbowl thing happening to beyonce somehow I beleive the majority of people would go in on justin timberlake and he wouldve actually suffered more. Even though beyonce portrays herself in a very provoctive way she seems to carry more of respectability about herself than her comtempories and morely a sense of power and control that I never got from janet. I think that could have something to do with each others vocal styling (janet the small like whisper voice very docile very much in a womens place compared to beyonces powerful contrallto). Among other things janets family history etc.

Im not comparing the two in a whos better or whatever just thinking about the scenario if one was in the others place. How would things play out differently.

Janet Jackson as an overall entertainer is excellent, but I never got over her weak voice and how she lipsynched the majority of her performances during her hey day and even worse now. and much of her greatness I think, is due to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. If she were to produce something on her own, then maybe I can really see how talented she is. I saw her live once and though I loved the music, she was lip synching so bad and out of synch, I realize will never pay for her live again.

The industry didn't black ball Janet Jackson. Once black female singers hit 40, their hit making days are over. No high charting singles, very little to no radio support. The only way they can make money is by constantly touring or collecting royalties from previous songs that hopefully they wrote.

kitbradley said:

alphastreet said:

Dasein said:

The industry didn't black-ball Janet Jackson. Instead, her fans grew up. And when we grow up,
we leave behind certain features associated with the past. I grew up listening to Michael Jackson
and Prince. But at some point, my monkey ass got old and I stopped really caring about them as I
discovered new artists to enjoy who fit my old-ass worldview better than two Jheri curl black guys
from the 80s who looked like chicks.

The same thing probably happened with Janet Jackson. Stars, literally and figuratively, do not
burn forever. Cosmologists and astronomers all realize that at some point, the Sun will die. The
same can be said of Janet Jackson's career and popularity.

I also agree with you here, cause though I still listened to janet, I wasn't listening to her consistently anymore about a year before then, and I had posters of her before and had seen her numerous times. Was still a fan but not obsessive like then though I still go to her tours. My music taste in general changes all the time, and still does...but though many got over mj, also cause of having their own lives to tend to as well and growing up, he still had a major fanbase in other parts of the world, and though I know his numbers got lower and lower, thosewere a lot higher than janet's post-superbowl era, and his past was more appreciated than hers until it took certain things with her like a tour to re-launch herself or a movie. Having said that, though I think both are still cool cause I grew up with them and inspired me, I do listen to janet way more these cause she's soothing, and he just gives me a headache because I'm angry all over again about what happened to him and really avoid thinking about it and have gotten better at it. In fact, if I'm talking about him with anyone these days, it's only here and I try to focus on the positive memories when his music brought that to my life, rather than focusing on his.

[Edited 12/20/16 12:19pm]

Michael Jackson/his legacy has a huge advantage due to the fact that his music never fails to attract the new generation. Streaming and YouTube are now the dominant platforms for millennials to experience music. I just checked the statistics and Michael is doing very well on streaming platforms considering he debuted before the digital age of music. None of his peers come close to his streaming numbers.

MJ has been the #62 most streamed artist on Spotify this year - with only current artists ahead of him. MJ had 110 million streams on Spotify this year.

The closest classic act to him are Queen (so I don't quite understand how they made the Beatles win the "classic rock" category - unless they arbitrarily decided that Queen aren't classic rock). Queen are at #65 with 106 million streams while The Beatles streamed around 85 million this year. They are regularly at around #110-120. But Spotify is trying to hype and push them hard.

BTW, The Jackson 5 streamed an additional 33 million and the Jacksons another 7.7 million.

I am going to post a full Top 50-Top 100 later if anyone is interested. And yep, Drake is #1 on Spotify with 390 million streams. Rihanna 2nd with 343 million and Major Lazer is 3rd with 312 million.

On YouTube (which is the biggest streaming platform) MJ is at #26 with 1.99 billion streams (will be easily 2 billion by the end of the year). On YT it is Justin Bieber who is #1 (5.09 billion streams) with Rihanna #2 (3.91 billion) and Sia 3rd (2.89 billion). Interestingly Spotify's #1, Drake is only at #48 on YT (1.43 billion streams) - way below MJ, among others.

Another thing it's been seven years since his passing and four of his albums has never left the billboard 200 album chart, which is crazy because after the first or two years of an artist's passing their album disappear from the chart. He's been selling at close to or exactly a million albums these past few years. According to Billboard only 30% of his album sales come from the U.S.

SoulAlive said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

kitbradley said:

The only way they can make money is by constantly touring or collecting royalties from previous songs that hopefully they wrote.

Janet didn't do herself any favors with the constant postponements and cancellations of tourdates.When you're a veteran artist,touring is your bread and butter....one of the few ways that you can still stay relevent.If you screw that up,what else is there?

Its amazing to think what would be mjs full potential if he didnt fall into so many traps. His accomplishments never fail to amaze me.

alphastreet said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

Another thing it's been seven years since his passing and four of his albums has never left the billboard 200 album chart, which is crazy because after the first or two years of an artist's passing their album disappear from the chart. He's been selling at close to or exactly a million albums these past few years. According to Billboard only 30% of his album sales come from the U.S.

I agree mj never stopped being a success, even when at his worst his back catalogue still sold. Thanks for sharing that article, which 4 albums are currently on billboard?

Thriller, Bad, Number Ones, & The Essential greatest hits

[Edited 12/21/16 14:46pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

IDK after Velvet Rope she kind just fell into a rutt to me

Jimmy said it himself. The label started wanting to push other producers on her. Birtney, Beyonce, J.Lo etc were taking over. She had to compete. I think Janet was feeling under the pressure, didnt have much to write about. Started over sexualizing her image. So glad those eras are behind her now.

I was too young to experience Janet in her prime (was born June 93) so for those who were around during her heyday was she a powerhouse Globally? I know she dominated in the U.S. think to Billboard archives, Youtube clips, etc

One person was tweeting about Janet & the state of her career a while ago on twitter

Charles Broccoli Retweeted josh ✨

SoulAlive said:

paisleypark4 said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

paisleypark4 said:

Jimmy said it himself. The label started wanting to push other producers on her. Birtney, Beyonce, J.Lo etc were taking over. She had to compete. I think Janet was feeling under the pressure, didnt have much to write about. Started over sexualizing her image. So glad those eras are behind her now.

She definitely needed to branch out. Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam's music was way dated [Edited 12/22/16 0:19am]

The last recording they did for her was excellent and I was not a big fan of Janet Jackson.

Black radio simply refused to play it and she received no promotion Black ball city

While that asshole Justin has not been able to give his music away.

CharismaDove said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

I was too young to experience Janet in her prime (was born June 93) so for those who were around during her heyday was she a powerhouse Globally? I know she dominated in the U.S. think to Billboard archives, Youtube clips, etc

One person was tweeting about Janet & the state of her career a while ago on twitter

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 6

Charles Broccoli Retweeted josh ✨

Yes. Her legacy. Janet Jackson has grown so disillusioned with the industry since 2009 that she has been careless in preserving it.

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 6

For an artist of Janet Jackson's stature, Unbreakable was an abysmal failure worldwide. Sales were absolutely embarrassing

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 6

Janet Jackson no longer registers as a global force on the charts. It's a complete shame. SHE may not care. But her fans do. @0fficial_j0sh

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 6

Janet Jackson stayed out of the spotlight for TOO long when her career and legacy were already in jeopardy. And now she doesn't even care.

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 6

Her fans shouldn't have to work as hard as they do to remind everyone why Janet Jackson was so great

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 10

@boyg0newild @jillianmallory Madonna simply learned early on that one must evolve to remain relevant. This is what Janet Jackson didn't do.

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly Dec 10

@boyg0newild @jillianmallory After Janet and half of The Velvet Rope, Janet Jackson found her comfort zone and stayed there. It cost her.

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly 23h23 hours ago

@jillianmallory Well, Janet Jackson is still blacklisted. All thanks to a titty and some bad career choices after a bad performance stunt.

Charles Broccoli ‏@hotterthanjuly 22h22 hours ago

@_Inyo_ @ConvosInACafe Janet Jackson has longevity. What she no longer has is staying power. Unbreakable came, saw and failed to conquer.

Geez I dont know who that guy is but he reminds me of the obsessive Prince fans who always want top numbers and accomplishments. Who tf cares. I feel bad for both Janet and Prince bc they're the two artists most commonly compared to MJ -- and there's no way but down when you compare ANYONE to the King of Pop save Elvis/Beatles. J & P fans both need to realize they're fans of fantastically successful artists. NO, they won't have any new hits because they're veterans. But they've proved enough already. Appreciate Janet before she dies, she's a 50 yr old woman w/ a baby I doubt she cares about this shit. Good on her. Independent artists are usually better than the big ones anyway

Yeah wouldn't say that fan's opinion from twitter is the best opinion of Janet's career. Some fans are still mad Janet didn't promote Unbreakable the way they wanted. Then at the same time they are the same fans that know Janet did a decent amount of promo for Damita Jo, 20 Y.O, and Discipline yet still call those albums "flops" despite them selling decent for an older artist. Some fans have a problem with her lack of promotion of Unbreakable while others don't have a problem with it. I'm a fan that doesn't have a problem with the lack of promotion and I even said (on a different forum) prior to the Unbreakable era I wouldn't be surprised if for the next era/any future era she didn't do traditional promo when she returned to music especially if she went independent which we knew she might do since people around/within Janet's camp kept hinting that she was very likely going to go independent. Then I knew for sure when Rhythm Nation Records was announced she wasn't going to be doing traditional promo anymore.

I mean Janet isn't Madonna, Mariah Carey, Jennifer Lopez, etc. when it comes to promoting and staying in the spotlight and she never has been. When Janet did promote she was often very repetive in interviews and then as it regards to her staying in the spotlight in between eras it isn't something she has done her entire career. Literally during her prime she would "disappear" when she had nothing to promote. Also unlike the artists I mentioned who didn't get into the business until their late teens/early twenties can't necessarily fault Janet for wanting to get away from the spotlight when she can considering she has been around the spotlight since she was a toddler and in the entertainment business in some form herself rather it was acting,singing,performing/touring, etc. since she was 7. Also the break from Discipline to Unbreakable is also overstated by fans that say she was out of the spotlight for 7 years which to them is "too long". She might of not realeased an album of new material for 7 years (i.e no album of new matearial between 2008 until late 2015) but she was still very active/in the spotlight from 2009 to 2012. I mean during the time span of 2009 to 2012 she promoted the Number Ones album, promoted 2 movies (Why Did I Get Married Too and For Colored Girls), went on nearly a year long tour, was in 3 Blackglama campaigns, and promoted Nutrisystem. So if you really break it down Janet was only out of the spotlight/not often seen for only 2 1/2 years (2013 to mid-2015). Also in general album sales often decrease when an artists gets older but also in general sales now are low for artists regardless of the promo or how successful the singles are but I guess some fans still want to be able to brag about the sales in "stan wars" and I've never been one of those fans that cared about the sales I care about the music. If an artists music is good I could care less about sales because sales don't effect me at the end of the day. The music is what I enjoy and even those fans that might not like the way she went about Unbreakable's promo they can't honestly say it is a bad album because it is widely considered by many fans and most critics her best album since The Velvet Rope.

[Edited 12/22/16 10:33am]

alphastreet said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree.There was never some big,industry-wide conspiracy to ruin her career.What happened is,she simply got older and is now a veteran artist.

Though there is some truth to this since Whitney, Toni and Marihs sales decreased too between all for you and Dj, just a little while was starting to climb the charts before disappearing after the SuperBowl. I still think if all nite don't stop was performed and the album came out almost immediately , her sales would have been higher.

She was 38 when she got blacklisted from MTV and radio. Mariah had a #1 single at that age 4 years later. It should have been another successful era for her following up All For You with its two massive radio hits.

Almost all artists have a nosedive around 40 years old on the radio, male or female...black or white. Yes, there are exceptions but even these are quite limited in sustaining their pop success while over 40. If you look at the top 40 in any given year or week, the vast majority of the artists are well under 40. Same is true for mainstream "Urban/ R&B radio as well. Historically, the vast number of album buyers have been well under 40, and if memory serves me well this peaks around college age. Similarly, contemporary radio station also are most listened by the 16 to 30 year olders. That's not just true now, it always has been. Most younger listeners don't want to just follow their parent's favorites. They want their own favorites (I know there are many exceptions to this). It is true with a particular type of sound as well, such as the Jimmy Jam sound. Janet benefited greatly from it while it was the pop/urban sound the era, but then it no longer served her. With a weak voice like Janet's, production was more key for her than some other singers. I don't think she would ever had so many hits if she hadn't caught the wave of Jimmy Jam. She is so fortunate to have had her success rather than the victim portrayed in this thread. By the way, I always rather liked her personality in the early days, and also think that it helped pave the way for her early success as well. She became less accessible with time and harder to relate to, which also hurt her image and her career.

[Edited 12/22/16 14:14pm]

[Edited 12/22/16 14:14pm]