Menes said:

mjscarousal said:

My definition of selling out is when you abandon your principles, ideals, and in this case artistic intergrity in order to follow whats (popularly accepted or trendy) and that is exactly what Usher did. He was a respected R&B artist and built a dedicated following over time. His fans watched him grow up, struggle and reach superstardom. He was on track to being an Icon imo but he blew that

AFTER Confessions. I am guessing there was label pressure to top Confessions so he oblidge and abandoned R&B for while. Its sad because Usher now makes POP Trap music and his image is all over the place. Usher had a very geniune authentic style when he first came out that was seperate from the other MJ wannabe's. He was likable, down to earth and unlike most of his contemporaries, he has a diamond album, classic albums, and classic songs AND he has had the biggest peak by a Black pop artist that has came out over the last 20 years, no question.

[Edited 1/20/17 14:43pm]

Though "selling out" is synonymous and an extreme form of "abandon", its probably not the best way to describe someone's actions when in reality, he has creative control as an artist. In addition, that catch phrase has maligned many of African American artists , actors, actresses who have decided to do something against the norm . Who decides what's the norm? To you and I ( and I agree with you in some aspects of your post), these compromising modifications can be alarming, yet, they are historical in nature. It is more likely related to relevance than "selling out".

Why isn' it? He had creative control on all his albums (which you even agree), so if he wanted to continue to make R&B music, he would have. He choose to follow trends in order to stay relevant and it ended up hurting his legacy.

mjscarousal said:

Menes said:

Though "selling out" is synonymous and an extreme form of "abandon", its probably not the best way to describe someone's actions when in reality, he has creative control as an artist. In addition, that catch phrase has maligned many of African American artists , actors, actresses who have decided to do something against the norm . Who decides what's the norm? To you and I ( and I agree with you in some aspects of your post), these compromising modifications can be alarming, yet, they are historical in nature. It is more likely related to relevance than "selling out".

Why isn' it? He had creative control on all his albums (which you even agree), so if he wanted to continue to make R&B music, he would have. He choose to follow trends in order to stay relevant and it ended up hurting his legacy.

That's the point. It is his perogative. You defined that as "selling out".

Menes said:

mjscarousal said:

Why isn' it? He had creative control on all his albums (which you even agree), so if he wanted to continue to make R&B music, he would have. He choose to follow trends in order to stay relevant and it ended up hurting his legacy.

That's the point. It is his perogative. You defined that as "selling out".

IMO, it was because he was not choosing the EDM route because he wanted to be experimental, he saw that it was trendy at the time and was jumping on a trend in order to stay relavent. Your right, it is his prerogative but it is also my prerogative to call him a sell out for abandoning his R&B sound for a few forgettable hits.

mjscarousal said:

Menes said:

That's the point. It is his perogative. You defined that as "selling out".

IMO, it was because he was not choosing the EDM route because he wanted to be experimental, he saw that it was trendy at the time and was jumping on a trend in order to stay relavent. Your right, it is his prerogative but it is also my prerogative to call him a sell out for abandoning his R&B sound for a few forgettable hits.

You are correct. That is your perogative to call him a "sell out".

He was one of the top artists of the 2000s. I graduated from high school in 2004. Usher was huge. He continued to be successful when I was in college. He has had a few hit songs in the 2010s: "DJ Got Us Falling in Love," "Climax," and "There Goes My Baby." I think of his contemporaries as being artists like Ginuwine and Tyrese, both of whom I like very much. However, Usher has been much more commercially successful as a recording artist than either of them. Based on his career as a recording artist, Usher is a household name in the US. Tyrese is about equally as famous as Usher, in my opinion, but Tyrese's has come as much from being an actor than as from being a musician.

Usher is from a different generation than artists like Bruno Mars and Zayn Malik. As for artists like Chris Brown, Trey Songz, Jason Derulo, Miguel, Justin Bieber, and Omarion, Usher has influenced them, for sure. These aforementioned artists could be considered peers because they were popular during the 2000s or early 2010s, or in the case of Justin Bieber, collaborated with Usher. However, none of these artists besides Justin Bieber even come close to having the popularity or influence of Usher. Drake is hard to compare because, in my opinion, he falls more into the rapper category than singer category.

[Edited 1/28/17 15:59pm]

206Michelle said:

He was one of the top artists of the 2000s. I graduated from high school in 2004. Usher was huge. He continued to be successful when I was in college. He has had a few hit songs in the 2010s: "DJ Got Us Falling in Love," "Climax," and "There Goes My Baby." I think of his contemporaries as being artists like Ginuwine and Tyrese, both of whom I like very much. However, Usher has been much more commercially successful as a recording artist than either of them. Based on his career as a recording artist, Usher is a household name in the US. Tyrese is about equally as famous as Usher, in my opinion, but Tyrese's has come as much from being an actor than as from being a musician.

Usher is from a different generation than artists like Bruno Mars and Zayn Malik. As for artists like Chris Brown, Trey Songz, Jason Derulo, Miguel, Justin Bieber, and Omarion, Usher has influenced them, for sure. These aforementioned artists could be considered peers because they were popular during the 2000s or early 2010s, or in the case of Justin Bieber, collaborated with Usher. However, none of these artists besides Justin Bieber even come close to having the popularity or influence of Usher. Drake is hard to compare because, in my opinion, he falls more into the rapper category than singer category.

[Edited 1/28/17 15:59pm]

Excellent post!

This is why I say he is underrated because at his peak he was arguably the biggest Black current pop star.

Also his hit with WillIAM, "OMG" was a big hit too this decade.

mjscarousal said:

206Michelle said:

He was one of the top artists of the 2000s. I graduated from high school in 2004. Usher was huge. He continued to be successful when I was in college. He has had a few hit songs in the 2010s: "DJ Got Us Falling in Love," "Climax," and "There Goes My Baby." I think of his contemporaries as being artists like Ginuwine and Tyrese, both of whom I like very much. However, Usher has been much more commercially successful as a recording artist than either of them. Based on his career as a recording artist, Usher is a household name in the US. Tyrese is about equally as famous as Usher, in my opinion, but Tyrese's has come as much from being an actor than as from being a musician.

Usher is from a different generation than artists like Bruno Mars and Zayn Malik. As for artists like Chris Brown, Trey Songz, Jason Derulo, Miguel, Justin Bieber, and Omarion, Usher has influenced them, for sure. These aforementioned artists could be considered peers because they were popular during the 2000s or early 2010s, or in the case of Justin Bieber, collaborated with Usher. However, none of these artists besides Justin Bieber even come close to having the popularity or influence of Usher. Drake is hard to compare because, in my opinion, he falls more into the rapper category than singer category.

[Edited 1/28/17 15:59pm]

Excellent post!

This is why I say he is underrated because at his peak he was arguably the biggest Black current pop star.

Also his hit with WillIAM, "OMG" was a big hit too this decade.

mjscarousel, I knew I was missing a song. It was OMG. Thanks for the addition. Yes, and I agree that in the mid 2000s he was the biggest Black pop star. Right now, that title would have to go to Beyonce.

206Michelle said:

mjscarousal said:

Excellent post!

This is why I say he is underrated because at his peak he was arguably the biggest Black current pop star.

Also his hit with WillIAM, "OMG" was a big hit too this decade.

mjscarousel, I knew I was missing a song. It was OMG. Thanks for the addition. Yes, and I agree that in the mid 2000s he was the biggest Black pop star. Right now, that title would have to go to Beyonce.

No, the biggest Black pop star right now is Drake. He had the biggest selling album last year after Adele as well as the biggest single in which he a broke a record. I look at receipts when I define commercial peaks. I don't go off of hype because that doesn't tell the true story or reality. IMO, the ONLY reason why I say Usher was the biggest Black pop star in the mid 00's is because he has the receipts to back it up.

[Edited 1/29/17 16:18pm]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Are. Kelly is better.

We know R.Kelly is better but contrary to a popular "myth" Usher was the biggest Black pop star last decade

no.

mjscarousal said:

206Michelle said:

mjscarousel, I knew I was missing a song. It was OMG. Thanks for the addition. Yes, and I agree that in the mid 2000s he was the biggest Black pop star. Right now, that title would have to go to Beyonce.

No, the biggest Black pop star right now is Drake. He had the biggest selling album last year after Adele as well as the biggest single in which he a broke a record. I look at receipts when I define commercial peaks. I don't go off of hype because that doesn't tell the true story or reality. IMO, the ONLY reason why I say Usher was the biggest Black pop star in the mid 00's is because he has the receipts to back it up.

[Edited 1/29/17 16:18pm]

went to see him two times...the Confessions tour and the 8701 Tour. I said to myself..."He gotta be the hardest working young artist I have seen thus far!"

hats off to the man, i have no idea how he performed so hard singing live at times breathing hard through vocals at the same time but the man was on FIRE and 100% live.

I think he deserved the Vanguard award over Rihanna and/or Justin Timberlake as I doubt either has had much more memorable music videos and the fact that Usher has still sold more albums domestically and globally than either Rihanna or Justin Timberlake.

2020 said:

I had a huge discussion/argument with good friends about his success after Confessions I stated he was over rated and Confessions would be his peak and he would fall soon after. Turns out I was right. [Edited 2/5/17 8:40am]

His output after Confessions is just outright bad.......I tried to listen to the recent stuff and could only get thru a handfull of songs without skipping to the next track.

mnbvc said:

I think he deserved the Vanguard award over Rihanna and/or Justin Timberlake as I doubt either has had much more memorable music videos and the fact that Usher has still sold more albums domestically and globally than either Rihanna or Justin Timberlake.

Really, Usher should have been making tracks with Tim and Pharrell and stuck to that formula instead of chasing trends like Justin has done with his past three albums. It helped mold his sound. Usher doesnt really have a sound.

mnbvc said:

I think he deserved the Vanguard award over Rihanna and/or Justin Timberlake as I doubt either has had much more memorable music videos and the fact that Usher has still sold more albums domestically and globally than either Rihanna or Justin Timberlake.

I to this day think that the industry had some sort of an agenda in trying to crown Justin as the new King of Pop back in 2013. All they needed was a reason: he's releasing his first album in over 6 years? Let's run with it!

His comeback was welcomed but man it wasn't the monumental occasion they were probably expecting. 20/20 only topped the charts for 3 weeks total. Granted, it was the longest time an album spent at #1 in 2013 but for as big a deal as his return was being made out to be, you'd think JT was having a run on the charts like the one Drake had last year. None of 20/20's singles even went #1 which is baffling still.

JT had much stiffer competition to contend with in 2013 than Drake did in 2016 but the success of his comeback was way overblown.

[Edited 2/6/17 16:02pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

mnbvc said:

I think he deserved the Vanguard award over Rihanna and/or Justin Timberlake as I doubt either has had much more memorable music videos and the fact that Usher has still sold more albums domestically and globally than either Rihanna or Justin Timberlake.

I to this day think that the industry had some sort of an agenda in trying to crown Justin as the new King of Pop back in 2013. All they needed was a reason: he's releasing his first album in over 6 years? Let's run with it!

His comeback was welcomed but man it wasn't the monumental occasion they were probably expecting. 20/20 only topped the charts for 3 weeks total. Granted, it was the longest time an album spent at #1 in 2013 but for as big a deal as his return was being made out to be, you'd think JT was having a run on the charts like the one Drake had last year. None of 20/20's singles even went #1 which is baffling still.

JT had much stiffer competition to contend with in 2013 than Drake did in 2016 but the success of his comeback was way overblown.

[Edited 2/6/17 16:02pm]

From what I remember, there was a big lack of hype once the album finally came out. One woman on the radio said, "wheres the pop hit? This r&b is okay, but its not what brought us into songs like Sexy Back...". I think the 20/20 Experience was not catered to the pop crowd like the last album was and plus others were more important it seemed especially going up against Robin Thicke's "Blurred lines". i bet Justin felt shitty looking over Pharrell for that hit, even though Robin also came up with that idea. "Mirrors" was meh, don't know what he or the label was thinking about when they released "Tunnel Vision". "Not A Bad Thing" was a step back in the right direction though.

paisleypark4 said:

mnbvc said:

I think he deserved the Vanguard award over Rihanna and/or Justin Timberlake as I doubt either has had much more memorable music videos and the fact that Usher has still sold more albums domestically and globally than either Rihanna or Justin Timberlake.

Really, Usher should have been making tracks with Tim and Pharrell and stuck to that formula instead of chasing trends like Justin has done with his past three albums. It helped mold his sound. Usher doesnt really have a sound.

Usher had a sound and with Confessions he really enhanced that sound in other areas. My Way and 8701 sound similiar in terms of sound. Jermaine Dupri and Baby face both produced My Way and 8701. Jermaine also produced Confessions.The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his sound. He should get back with Baby face and JD since they had good chemistry musically.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Ersha's music was more mature 15-20 years ago than it is today. I got that Master P ... really.

It really was. He was a teenager singing sexy songs like "Nice and Slow" and he was sanging on that song too!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Ersha's music was more mature 15-20 years ago than it is today.

100% correct.

mjscarousal said:

paisleypark4 said:

Really, Usher should have been making tracks with Tim and Pharrell and stuck to that formula instead of chasing trends like Justin has done with his past three albums. It helped mold his sound. Usher doesnt really have a sound.

Usher had a sound and with Confessions he really enhanced that sound in other areas. My Way and 8701 sound similiar in terms of sound. Jermaine Dupri and Baby face both produced My Way and 8701. Jermaine also produced Confessions.The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his sound. He should get back with Baby face and JD since they had good chemistry musically.

That's what I meant. After that he started chasing trends and working with people that don't really fit his persona. Understandable but loses identity.

paisleypark4 said:

paisleypark4 said:

mjscarousal said:

Usher had a sound and with Confessions he really enhanced that sound in other areas. My Way and 8701 sound similiar in terms of sound. Jermaine Dupri and Baby face both produced My Way and 8701. Jermaine also produced Confessions.The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his sound. He should get back with Baby face and JD since they had good chemistry musically.

That's what I meant. After that he started chasing trends and working with people that don't really fit his persona. Understandable but loses identity.

Oh okay then I agree!

Jam & Lewis also did good work with Usher on 8701.

PrettyMan72 said:

Jam & Lewis also did good work with Usher on 8701.

Your right, they did! He should collab with them too.