paisleypark4 said:

214 said:

214 said:

Why do blacks complain when a white artist does black music and is successful? Because said white artist is IMMEDIATELY placed in the upper echelon, makes more money and is constantly listed towards the top of any best of lists...see Elvis Presley, New Kids on the Block (how on earth did they sell more than New Edition?) and Eminem. As for Eminem, the guy definitely has flow...that is undeniable...but he is NO ONE compared to the likes of Chuck D, KRS-ONE...hell, LL Cool J was better than Eminem IMHO, but whatever...

LMAO... ive been reading hiphop blogs and music blogs for years...and if there's one thing that is guaranteed to set off the innate racial tension between the people, its an Eminem debate.... EVERYTIME... some things will never change...

UncleJam said:

Why do blacks complain when a white artist does black music and is successful? Because said white artist is IMMEDIATELY placed in the upper echelon, makes more money and is constantly listed towards the top of any best of lists...see Elvis Presley, New Kids on the Block (how on earth did they sell more than New Edition?) and Eminem. As for Eminem, the guy definitely has flow...that is undeniable...but he is NO ONE compared to the likes of Chuck D, KRS-ONE...hell, LL Cool J was better than Eminem IMHO, but whatever...

same reason white folks complain when a black athlete makes millions of dollars straight out of high school without attending college...

UncleJam said:

Why do blacks complain when a white artist does black music and is successful? Because said white artist is IMMEDIATELY placed in the upper echelon, makes more money and is constantly listed towards the top of any best of lists...see Elvis Presley, New Kids on the Block (how on earth did they sell more than New Edition?) and Eminem. As for Eminem, the guy definitely has flow...that is undeniable...but he is NO ONE compared to the likes of Chuck D, KRS-ONE...hell, LL Cool J was better than Eminem IMHO, but whatever...

That is partly true. Not all but some do get more recognition I must say just like how Justin Timberlake casually just fell in place with the likes of Usher (being that he had the right producers behind him), as well he ALREADY had the caucasian teen fanbase that many r&b artists just do not have and honestly never catered to. The caucasian teen fanbase is larger than the r&b buying public...thats not just r&b but blues, country, rock...teen pop is the #1 buying market and not to be looked over. Thats what happend with Eminem. You think young white people was going to buy Chuck D and KRS One? You must be out your mind if anyone was to think that. Those are not artists that cater to the pop buying public.

I think Eminem mistakenly fell into that group and over and over again. Didnt help him showing up on TRL etc even stated that he was not interested in that market, even talking shit about them in his songs. That just made them even want him more. Cant deny that money.

That goes witrh NKOTB to Backstreet Boys too, they struggling in sales... they just had a larger fanbase in the 90s, even though they aint doing much now either and New Eidtion is much more recognized as a conglomerate than them. New Edition wasnt catering to pop charts like that, their music is r&b. They defenitly have more awards, concerts, greatest hit packages and albums than them.

RJOrion said:

UncleJam said:

Why do blacks complain when a white artist does black music and is successful? Because said white artist is IMMEDIATELY placed in the upper echelon, makes more money and is constantly listed towards the top of any best of lists...see Elvis Presley, New Kids on the Block (how on earth did they sell more than New Edition?) and Eminem. As for Eminem, the guy definitely has flow...that is undeniable...but he is NO ONE compared to the likes of Chuck D, KRS-ONE...hell, LL Cool J was better than Eminem IMHO, but whatever...

same reason white folks complain when a black athlete makes millions of dollars straight out of high school without attending college...

It's been upgraded:

"Why do you complain about too few black students/lawyers/doctors/politicians/professors/ballerinas? You're good at basketball and athletics, we're good at everything else!!"

I don't like Eminem. Yes, he's talented, but he wastes his rhymes on beef with other peeps. Thankfully, no-one has given props to Iggy Azalea or Macklemore. He's the most boring dude ever, but they must've liked him at school cause he looks like a nice guy.

While he is not in my Top 10, Em is definitly a talented lyrist and clever with word play. He is definitly superior to Jay Z in that respect who I always thought was a mediocre lyrist. When Em is at his best he is really good and when he is not, he is average but I dig a lot of his older material. I would pick him over Jay Z or Kanye any day of the week.

RJOrion said:

LMAO @ Eminem being "superior" to JayZ...

Jay Z is the most overrated rapper of all time. There are way better rappers than him. IMO, Eminem is one of them.

RJOrion said:

i agree, there are a few mc's better than Hov...but Marshall Mathers aint one of them...JayZ has been running on fumes for about 10 years...but in his lengthy (for a hiphop artist) prime, no one put out more consistently great rap albums than JayZ... part of an mc's legacy are the beats he rhymes over...from Readonable Doubt to The Black Album, there is an amazing catalog of beats and rhymes, quality and consistency and longevity unmatched by any other MC...not a fanboy of his but i gotta give The Camel his due...

If your into gimmicky generic rap, sure! lol And most of his rhymes he stole from other rappers. Em is not in my Top 10 of best or greatest but he is a far superior lyrist and better with word play than Jay Z (that was the only thing I was really comparing). Also, I don't think what makes a great MC is solely based on production. There are wack rappers with great production. I don't see what albums or lyricism he has done that has been game changing for hip hop. I have never cared for Jay Z and I am not here for him. I love Nas and Tupac.

RJOrion said:

Eminem is/was the epitome of "gimmicky, generic rap"...but to each their own...i prefer Nas, Cam'ron, Jadakiss, Busta Rhymes, Pharoah Monch, and Jay Electronica over JayZ, as well... great rap music doesnt always have to have multi-syllabic rhyme patterns and shakespearean level lyricism...JayZ mastered the subtleties of flow and cadence, and the rhythmic placement of his words and adlibs...Eminem rarely switches up his flow and cadence, and his cartoonish delivery irritates most hiphop purists... [Edited 1/29/17 20:12pm]

You knocked it out of the park especially the last statement. Cartoonish delivery!

That's why I said he might as well be this guy.

RJOrion said:

Eminem is/was the epitome of "gimmicky, generic rap"...but to each their own...i prefer Nas, Cam'ron, Jadakiss, Busta Rhymes, Pharoah Monch, and Jay Electronica over JayZ, as well... great rap music doesnt always have to have multi-syllabic rhyme patterns and shakespearean level lyricism...JayZ mastered the subtleties of flow and cadence, and the rhythmic placement of his words and adlibs...Eminem rarely switches up his flow and cadence, and his cartoonish delivery irritates most hiphop purists... [Edited 1/29/17 20:12pm]

I never said that Em is in my top picks to be clear. IMO, There both gimmick rappers

but imo Eminem has more creatively structured lyrics.I don't see how you can call Eminem gimmicky rap but then argue that Jay Z is so much better with songs like Big Pimpin, HOV and some of the most generic gimmicky songs ever created. Even if you pull out some of Jay Z best songs it still doesn't compare to the creativity of the rappers that you listed.Jay Z raps about his riches, material things, his fame, women (basically similiar themes that most gimmick rappers talk about) and your only arguement is that he has better beats but music production does not reflect an MC skills AND when you tear the gliz and glam away, Jay Z lacks compared to the other rappers you mentioned in terms of PURE MC SKILL. Jay Z does nothing for me. I

There a ton of hip hop fans that love Eminem so don't even generalize hip hop fans with thinking a certain way. There are a ton of old school rappers who had the same animated and charismatic delivery as Eminiem such as Beastie Boys and they are held as Gods by Hip Hop fans and purists. TO BE CLEAR, I never said I was this Big Eminem fan but I do prefer him over Jay Z in terms of his songwritng and lyrics (at his best). I think he is very introspective, personable and very talented with his word play on some of his most commercial songs (his gimmick style is not the typical and I like that he at least discusses his personal life in his music) and I also would argue that his "cartoonish" as you say delivery has a lot to do with his appeal and uniqueness. IMO, he does switch up his flow and does more things with his voice, tone, flow than Jay Z. If we were to compare songs like Stan or The Way I Am for example to some of Jay Z's more commerical songs like Girls Girls Girls or Excuse Me etc those Em songs are more creatively and cleverly lyrically structured. Being a good MC/rapper is not just about flow IMO. Its how you deliver and express yourself and if you write your own music, how well you write and how out of the box you are with your creativity and Em definitly has that above Jay Z but thats my personal opinion.

Where is LittleBlueCorvette? The biggest Jay Z stan I know

mjscarousal said:

RJOrion said:

Eminem is/was the epitome of "gimmicky, generic rap"...but to each their own...i prefer Nas, Cam'ron, Jadakiss, Busta Rhymes, Pharoah Monch, and Jay Electronica over JayZ, as well... great rap music doesnt always have to have multi-syllabic rhyme patterns and shakespearean level lyricism...JayZ mastered the subtleties of flow and cadence, and the rhythmic placement of his words and adlibs...Eminem rarely switches up his flow and cadence, and his cartoonish delivery irritates most hiphop purists... [Edited 1/29/17 20:12pm]

I never said that Em is in my top picks to be clear. IMO, There both gimmick rappers

but imo Eminem has more creatively structured lyrics.I don't see how you can call Eminem gimmicky rap but then argue that Jay Z is so much better with songs like Big Pimpin, HOV and some of the most generic gimmicky songs ever created. Even if you pull out some of Jay Z best songs it still doesn't compare to the creativity of the rappers that you listed.Jay Z raps about his riches, material things, his fame, women (basically similiar themes that most gimmick rappers talk about) and your only arguement is that he has better beats but music production does not reflect an MC skills AND when you tear the gliz and glam away, Jay Z lacks compared to the other rappers you mentioned in terms of PURE MC SKILL. Jay Z does nothing for me. I

There a ton of hip hop fans that love Eminem so don't even generalize hip hop fans with thinking a certain way. There are a ton of old school rappers who had the same animated and charismatic delivery as Eminiem such as Beastie Boys and they are held as Gods by Hip Hop fans and purists. TO BE CLEAR, I never said I was this Big Eminem fan but I do prefer him over Jay Z in terms of his songwritng and lyrics (at his best). I think he is very introspective, personable and very talented with his word play on some of his most commercial songs (his gimmick style is not the typical and I like that he at least discusses his personal life in his music) and I also would argue that his "cartoonish" as you say delivery has a lot to do with his appeal and uniqueness. IMO, he does switch up his flow and does more things with his voice, tone, flow than Jay Z. If we were to compare songs like Stan or The Way I Am for example to some of Jay Z's more commerical songs like Girls Girls Girls or Excuse Me etc those Em songs are more creatively and cleverly lyrically structured. Being a good MC/rapper is not just about flow IMO. Its how you deliver and express yourself and if you write your own music, how well you write and how out of the box you are with your creativity and Em definitly has that above Jay Z but thats my personal opinion.

Exactly. Em, Nas and Common fall in category with headphone rap. Jay Z falls in line with club rap with LL Cool J, Biggie. Jay Z can get deep at times but not whole album deep like the others. His albums are just not that personal.

mjscarousal said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

mjscarousal said:

While he is not in my Top 10, Em is definitly a talented lyrist and clever with word play. He is definitly superior to Jay Z in that respect who I always thought was a mediocre lyrist. When Em is at his best he is really good and when he is not, he is average but I dig a lot of his older material. I would pick him over Jay Z or Kanye any day of the week.

Coming from a person who thinks Michael was a superior artist to Prince......well.

Coming from a person who is a childish attention seeker and desperate troll... well.

paisleypark4 said:

mjscarousal said:

I never said that Em is in my top picks to be clear. IMO, There both gimmick rappers

but imo Eminem has more creatively structured lyrics.I don't see how you can call Eminem gimmicky rap but then argue that Jay Z is so much better with songs like Big Pimpin, HOV and some of the most generic gimmicky songs ever created. Even if you pull out some of Jay Z best songs it still doesn't compare to the creativity of the rappers that you listed.Jay Z raps about his riches, material things, his fame, women (basically similiar themes that most gimmick rappers talk about) and your only arguement is that he has better beats but music production does not reflect an MC skills AND when you tear the gliz and glam away, Jay Z lacks compared to the other rappers you mentioned in terms of PURE MC SKILL. Jay Z does nothing for me. I

There a ton of hip hop fans that love Eminem so don't even generalize hip hop fans with thinking a certain way. There are a ton of old school rappers who had the same animated and charismatic delivery as Eminiem such as Beastie Boys and they are held as Gods by Hip Hop fans and purists. TO BE CLEAR, I never said I was this Big Eminem fan but I do prefer him over Jay Z in terms of his songwritng and lyrics (at his best). I think he is very introspective, personable and very talented with his word play on some of his most commercial songs (his gimmick style is not the typical and I like that he at least discusses his personal life in his music) and I also would argue that his "cartoonish" as you say delivery has a lot to do with his appeal and uniqueness. IMO, he does switch up his flow and does more things with his voice, tone, flow than Jay Z. If we were to compare songs like Stan or The Way I Am for example to some of Jay Z's more commerical songs like Girls Girls Girls or Excuse Me etc those Em songs are more creatively and cleverly lyrically structured. Being a good MC/rapper is not just about flow IMO. Its how you deliver and express yourself and if you write your own music, how well you write and how out of the box you are with your creativity and Em definitly has that above Jay Z but thats my personal opinion.

Exactly. Em, Nas and Common fall in category with headphone rap. Jay Z falls in line with club rap with LL Cool J, Biggie. Jay Z can get deep at times but not whole album deep like the others. His albums are just not that personal.

AGREE

Now that I think about it and as I look back at Em's albums, he really is not a gimmick rapper. 8 Mile was a really good album and Jay Z has done nothing lyrically that tops that.

I do think Eminem can be gimmicky buthe does have whole albums that are pretty deep like his first and second and he is a more superior lyrist and more clever with word play than Jay Z. He tells a story with his music and is very introspective. I don't see how anybody with a straight face can tell me those gimmicky Jay Z songs are better than those deep and complex lyrically Eminem songs I listed.

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said:

Common, Black Thought, Talib Kweli, Grand Puba, Yasmin Bey formerly known as Mos Def,

Posdunos and Dave of De La Soul, KRS One all would smash Eminem on the mike.

mechanicalemotion17 said:

mjscarousal said:

Coming from a person who is a childish attention seeker and desperate troll... well.

Not at all...but as much as you detest anyone saying anything even relatively nice about Beyonce, not so surprising that you hate Jay Z. So those who challenge you are childish attention seeking trolls? Pffft

I am not talking about everybody, I am talking about you. You came in here mentioning Prince and MJ when that has nothing to do with this thread topic. YES, you are childish and a troll because you do this in almost every single thread I respond in. I understand you hate MJ and MJ fans but why do you have to troll every single thread I respond in and ruin the thread for others?

mechanicalemotion17 said:

mjscarousal said:

I never said that Em is in my top picks to be clear. IMO, There both gimmick rappers

but imo Eminem has more creatively structured lyrics.I don't see how you can call Eminem gimmicky rap but then argue that Jay Z is so much better with songs like Big Pimpin, HOV and some of the most generic gimmicky songs ever created. Even if you pull out some of Jay Z best songs it still doesn't compare to the creativity of the rappers that you listed.Jay Z raps about his riches, material things, his fame, women (basically similiar themes that most gimmick rappers talk about) and your only arguement is that he has better beats but music production does not reflect an MC skills AND when you tear the gliz and glam away, Jay Z lacks compared to the other rappers you mentioned in terms of PURE MC SKILL. Jay Z does nothing for me. I

There a ton of hip hop fans that love Eminem so don't even generalize hip hop fans with thinking a certain way. There are a ton of old school rappers who had the same animated and charismatic delivery as Eminiem such as Beastie Boys and they are held as Gods by Hip Hop fans and purists. TO BE CLEAR, I never said I was this Big Eminem fan but I do prefer him over Jay Z in terms of his songwritng and lyrics (at his best). I think he is very introspective, personable and very talented with his word play on some of his most commercial songs (his gimmick style is not the typical and I like that he at least discusses his personal life in his music) and I also would argue that his "cartoonish" as you say delivery has a lot to do with his appeal and uniqueness. IMO, he does switch up his flow and does more things with his voice, tone, flow than Jay Z. If we were to compare songs like Stan or The Way I Am for example to some of Jay Z's more commerical songs like Girls Girls Girls or Excuse Me etc those Em songs are more creatively and cleverly lyrically structured. Being a good MC/rapper is not just about flow IMO. Its how you deliver and express yourself and if you write your own music, how well you write and how out of the box you are with your creativity and Em definitly has that above Jay Z but thats my personal opinion.

All the things you're attributing to Em. Can also be said about Nikki Menage if thats the case. How do you feel about her tho?

Why didn't you just respond with this original question instead of childishly bringing Prince and MJ into this thread topic?

mjscarousal said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

mjscarousal said:

I am not talking about everybody, I am talking about you. You came in here mentioning Prince and MJ when that has nothing to do with this thread topic. YES, you are childish and a troll because you do this in almost every single thread I respond in. I understand you hate MJ and MJ fans but why do you have to troll every single thread I respond in and ruin the thread for others?

Sorry..everytime I see your comments I think "there's that annoying Michael Jackson chick. I bet she's going to say something ridiculous. " and you never disappoint!

For someone who hates Michael Jackson, you sure love mentioning him in every unrelated thread that has nothing to do with him. As a matter of fact, I hardly ever see you in the Prince section. Why don't you spend your time on prince.org talking about Prince instead of worrying about where I post? lol You are a looney tune and this is my last response to you so have fun trolling!