Are Prince, Madonna, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Sting, Pearl Jam, Springsteen and most other older musicians who have put out well reviewed to very well-reviewed albums in that last 10 years victims of ageism.

The music industry is the only industry I can think of in which age is looked as almost entirely a handicap. The film industry still has room for Meryl streep to make hit film (even if they are shitty they are promoted). In visual arts, no one gives a shit about your age. In literature, age is often actually an asset.

If this doesn't change, music is likely to get less and less interesting. I am all for the youth movement that started in the late 50's and continues to this day. But this youth movement had to grow up at some time, and their evolution into adulthood and maturity should be seen as a right of passage as well. The current youth movement isn't totally reinventing music like those in the 50's and 60's who nearly replaced swing with rock (jazz remained cool in an underground kind of way) .. or even the hip hop artists who replaced R and B. BTW how old was Miles Davis when he was doing that jazz fusion stuff (not 21 that's for sure)?

.Today, young artists are often just tweeking what the folks I mentioned were already doing and still attempting to do.

Example...my students love Uptown Funk and I am a fan of Bruno Mars (casually) but Prince has 100 funk songs better than that one. Prince's music, I am convinced, even on his last album, would sell like hotcakes if he were 21 years old. Adele's music, for example, sounds like an older woman recorded it but she is young so therefore its cool to like her old school vibe. The few songs I have heard from Lemonade by Beyonce I do think sound unique so I am not really talking about her. Mind you.

As for David Bowie, his death coupled with the overwhelming acclaim and timeliness of his album helped his sales. I am convinced that had they released P's confessional and intimate Piano and Microphone tour to CD and DVD (and promoted it wisely as his last statement on this earth), it would have done well too. But HNR phase II's lackluster sales and lack of attention was the result of ageism, limited exposure and a lack of backstory or narrative (and a confusing title that sounds too much like its much different predecessor).

[Edited 12/11/16 22:14pm]

[Edited 12/11/16 22:17pm]

the kids buying music aren't going to meryl streep movies

purplerabbithole said:

Are Prince, Madonna, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Sting, Pearl Jam, Springsteen and most other older musicians who have put out well reviewed to very well-reviewed albums in that last 10 years victims of ageism.

The music industry is the only industry I can think of in which age is looked as almost entirely a handicap. The film industry still has room for Meryl streep to make hit film (even if they are shitty they are promoted). In visual arts, no one gives a shit about your age. In literature, age is often actually an asset.

If this doesn't change, music is likely to get less and less interesting. I am all for the youth movement that started in the late 50's and continues to this day. But this youth movement had to grow up at some time, and their evolution into adulthood and maturity should be seen as a right of passage as well. The current youth movement isn't totally reinventing music like those in the 50's and 60's who nearly replaced swing with rock (jazz remained cool in an underground kind of way) .. or even the hip hop artists who replaced R and B. BTW how old was Miles Davis when he was doing that jazz fusion stuff (not 21 that's for sure)?

.Today, young artists are often just tweeking what the folks I mentioned were already doing and still attempting to do.

Example...my students love Uptown Funk and I am a fan of Bruno Mars (casually) but Prince has 100 funk songs better than that one. Prince's music, I am convinced, even on his last album, would sell like hotcakes if he were 21 years old. Adele's music, for example, sounds like an older woman recorded it but she is young so therefore its cool to like her old school vibe. The few songs I have heard from Lemonade by Beyonce I do think sound unique so I am not really talking about her. Mind you.

As for David Bowie, his death coupled with the overwhelming acclaim and timeliness of his album helped his sales. I am convinced that had they released P's confessional and intimate Piano and Microphone tour to CD and DVD (and promoted it wisely as his last statement on this earth), it would have done well too. But HNR phase II's lackluster sales and lack of attention was the result of ageism, limited exposure and a lack of backstory or narrative (and a confusing title that sounds too much like its much different predecessor).

[Edited 12/11/16 22:14pm]

[Edited 12/11/16 22:17pm]

I enjoyed your post, and sympathize with a lot of it. A few points to consider:

- The film industry, IMO, has an ageism problem that goes hand in hand with gender. Meryl Streep is a rare exception to the rule. Women are far less likely to get big roles after, say, 35, than men. Take your pick of most of the "America's Sweethearts" of film -- their star dims with age. Meanwhile, their male peers can continue to get big-budget leading roles -- oftentimes cast alongside much younger women.

- The popular music industry has always been about the younger audience. Older artists are constantly being nudged or forced from the spotlight by younger artists, because that's the way the industry cycle works. From a purely business standpoint, the industry seemingly couldn't care less about listeners once they hit 30 or 35.

- I get your point about the lack of innovation in music. I think part of it is generational perspective. (Boomers used to shade Prince as being a Jimi or Sly clone, lest we forget.) But I think there is a difference in the industry today; I get the sense that labels are less inclined to allow artists to grow, and the age of the pop/R&B DJ with wide latitude to choose what to play are long gone. So, a lot of promising artists are given short leashes with labels, and ultimately, move on to the indie scene.

- Music lovers now must look at music scene as a rummage sale. You're going to have to work a little harder to find innovative, interesting music. But it's there.

MoBettaBliss said:

the kids buying music aren't going to meryl streep movies

Reminds me of the "surprise" #1 albums from Barbra Streisand, and all the other names in the thread starter.

purplerabbithole said:

I am all for the youth movement that started in the late 50's and continues to this day. But this youth movement had to grow up at some time, and their evolution into adulthood and maturity should be seen as a right of passage as well. The current youth movement isn't totally reinventing music like those in the 50's and 60's who nearly replaced swing with rock (jazz remained cool in an underground kind of way) .. or even the hip hop artists who replaced R and B.

That's how I feel. This is why I see rap changing (this half-decade trap and mumble trend) and am kinda letting it go about its business.

Even country continues to "change" but I feel like this garbage is only more and more commercial. I suppose some listeners thought the same about jazz fusion.

Cinny said:

MoBettaBliss said:

the kids buying music aren't going to meryl streep movies

Reminds me of the "surprise" #1 albums from Barbra Streisand, and all the other names in the thread starter.

Thats because her long time adult fans are buying it not these kids.

paisleypark4 said:

Cinny said:

Reminds me of the "surprise" #1 albums from Barbra Streisand, and all the other names in the thread starter.

Thats because her long time adult fans are buying it not these kids.

I'm sayin'. That's the worst thing about ageism in the industry. Imagine if they actually promoted them!

Cinny said:

Reminds me of the "surprise" #1 albums from Barbra Streisand, and all the other names in the thread starter.

I think Babs is buying her Albums with her own money...Trump does the same thing with his books...New Yorkers play Dirty...

heathilly said:

With all do respect these performers work in popular music. And that is an industry that always skewed to the new and young. These people could still make music and their fans can still enjoy it. But they had their time in the spotlight it comes a time where you gracefully bow out or you fade out because the youth want something new and different. And as much as I go in on Bruno mars for his rehash act he's a younger person and he's doing what he's doing and having fun and that's what popular music is about. Those old people no matter how great they are or whatever they did is old they had their time in the spotlight. They will always be respected. But once again no young person wants to hear a 50 year old point of view on anything.

You're right, as always in the org, some people are melodramatic, it's a nostalgia issue; everyone has their moment to shine and once they do, well it's time for the next.

Well i am a young person, and i do love old music, so that's not true, i love Bob Dylan and he is above 70 years.

Chancellor said:

214 said:

heathilly said:

With all do respect these performers work in popular music. And that is an industry that always skewed to the new and young. These people could still make music and their fans can still enjoy it. But they had their time in the spotlight it comes a time where you gracefully bow out or you fade out because the youth want something new and different. And as much as I go in on Bruno mars for his rehash act he's a younger person and he's doing what he's doing and having fun and that's what popular music is about. Those old people no matter how great they are or whatever they did is old they had their time in the spotlight. They will always be respected. But once again no young person wants to hear a 50 year old point of view on anything.

You're right, as always in the org, some people are melodramatic, it's a nostalgia issue; everyone has their moment to shine and once they do, well it's time for the next.

Well i am a young person, and i do love old music, so that's not true, i love Bob Dylan and he is above 70 years.

aww thanks

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

aww thanks

What about a 40 or 45+ year old POV? It's happened before.

The point is human beings for the most part dont like to be told what to do and prefer to do things in their own way. Especially when its against a percieved authority figure. Age represents authority youth represents freedom. And this happens in cycles whats new young and subversive eventally become old stone solid rules that feels imposing to the youth. Of couse theres outliers but even for the most part when a young person is connected to an old artist of a different generaation there into that old artist material when they were young in there 20s especially for pop music. And if that artist is still alive there holding on for them to do something with the same youthful exubrence of their earlier work. And there more a fan of what they used to be than what they currently are. There more a fan of the overall persona and what they represent than the actual current music their making.

[Edited 12/15/16 9:30am]