novabrkr said:

I won't question the US sales, but the worldwide sales figures seem a bit hard to believe.

Typically, American artists sell about the same amount of albums elsewhere in the world as they do domestically. I know that Beyonce is a big star in many other areas as well, but 3-4 times more albums sold elsewhere? Where exactly?

Just check out the chart positions for the third album, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...sha_Fierce

It didn't even enter the TOP10 in many important countries, like Germany, France or Italy.

Those sales figures the OP posted are inaccurate and Beyonce has sold less. When I checked the RIAA certifications for the self titled Beyonce album it only sold 3.2 ww so I dont know where the OP got 8 million from. Lemonade has sold 2 million ww and most of the sales coming from US at 1.5.

novabrkr said:

I won't question the US sales, but the worldwide sales figures seem a bit hard to believe.

Typically, American artists sell about the same amount of albums elsewhere in the world as they do domestically. I know that Beyonce is a big star in many other areas as well, but 3-4 times more albums sold elsewhere? Where exactly?

Just check out the chart positions for the third album, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...sha_Fierce

It didn't even enter the TOP10 in many important countries, like Germany, France or Italy.

Usually it is the case but Bon Jovi would be an exception to that, they have actually sold more overseas than here. And the surprising fact is that they really were not HUGE overseas till 1992, which is after their two biggest selling US albums which sold overseas but not like the albums to come after.

mjscarousal said:

728huey said:

Yes, Beyonce may be overrated, but her album sales are impressive in this post-Napster, iTunes, streaming service era. Considering all of her albums have gone platinum when most artists struggle to go gold these days shows some strong consistency. Sure, Drake, Taylor Swift, and Adele may have sold more albums in their debut week, but those are anomalies and even bigger anomalies considering it's incredibly difficult to even find physical CD's to buy these days. Taylor Swift is the ultimate All-American girl who is inoffensive and everyone loves, especially in flyover country, so her records can be found everywhere. Adele specially excluded her album 25 from streaming services, so even though her album blew the first week sales record out of the water, she did it by limiting the number of places to purchase it. And Drake had already released three or four singles which reached the top 25 before he even released his album Views, which by itself is quite unusual, as most artists may release that many singles during the entire album run.

And it can arguably be said that Beyonce is the greatest artists of her generation. The question is, what constitutes her generation? That generally includes her peers, and her peers going back to her Destiny's Child days are the Backstreet Boys, "Nsync/Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Usher, Alicia Keys, Coldplay, and Nickelback. Rihanna, Kanye West, Maroon 5, and Chris Brown are only somewhat her peers, as they came out a few years after she blew up, and I would argue that Lady GaGa, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Adele, and Bruno Mars are not really part of her generation, as they didn't become big until a full decade after Beyonce first came out.

But going back to "the greatest artist of her generation" stuff. Beyonce is still selling sizable numbers of albums and (mostly) selling out arenas as most of her peers have already fallen by the wayside. Only Justin Timberlake could still be considered a huge megastar along with her. Usher, Alicia Keys, and Coldplay are still releasing music, but they're not nearly as huge as they once were, and the Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, and Christina Aguilera are either playing the nostalgia tour circuit or doing Vegas shows.

I hear your points...but the thing I find the most creepiest about Beyonce admirers is that they make to many excuses for her shortcomings. There is always an excuse for Beyonce when ever she is criticized. Why is that? Why is she above reproach or criticism???? Its creepy to me because people make it seem as though Beyonce is untouchable and can not be criticized.

I personally don't think it can be arguable she is the greatest "artist" of her generation because again STATISTICALLY it does not reflect that. Again like I said earlier, her PEERS, Usher, Britney Spears, Pink, Eminem and Justin Timberlake have all OUT SOLD Beyonce. Britney has TWO diamond albums, TWO from the early 00's while Beyonce has none. Hell, even USHER has a diamond album that was released in 2004 (Usher is the ONLY Black artist in the last 20 years to receive a diamond album,which is impressive) and none of Beyonce's album's pre streaming era went diamond or have sold as much as Usher. Even Pink has sold more than Beyonce and Pink never and the machine and marketing advantage as Beyonce. Eminem has TWO diamond albums and blows Beyonce out the water in album sales.

IMO, Britney is the greatest pop star of HER generation and there is a lot of people who think this too and I also often hear Eminem cited as well. IMO, longevitiy does not necessarily make an artist the greatest, but the cultural impact, classic and iconic moments a artist is able to capture and resonate to audiences is what makes them great and Britney Spears without a doubt has that over Beyonce and Britney is not doing that bad with sales herself. Beyonce uses a lot of gimmicks to stay relevant and to garner first week sales at this point in her career and I personally would not applaud that as a feat being she is not selling on the quality of her music or merit. I am tired of this overration and sympathy for Beyonce and I will always call it out. She is hyped up and showered with awards when statistically she does not deserve it.

[Edited 11/27/16 12:10pm]

What I will also add is that we are really at the END of the sales talk. Beyonce, and Britney, Alicia, Kanye etc.. all came at the end of the game. I think Britney and Justin are pretty much the last you will see with huge numbers and YES you will see big numbers from Taylor and Adele and but really the day of selling 50 million albums is freaking over for all. And though LONGEVITY is necessarily mean great artists, it does mean you can still go out on the road and sell. I think you just need to look at the album chart and singles chart and see a disconnect. Green Day debut at 1 no single gettin played, Bon Jovi debut at Number one no single on the radio, Tribe Called Quest debut at number one, no single. Also look at still puts "asses" in seats at shows, most of your top concert gross sellers are well past their "prime selling" days.

Michael and Madonna have also sold very well overseas, going platinum and sometimes multiplatinum in overseas markets like Germany, France, Europe. As a matter of fact, EVEN Michaels Invincible album, 2001, keep in mind Michael was 43 years old, (people always call this album a flop) BUT it went platinum in Germany, France, UK, Europe, US, Netherlands, Macao, Switzerland, Australia Norway and other global countries. It went double platinum in US, Europe, Macao, and Australia. So please don't leave the Kang out when it comes to global and overseas sales and this is his so called lowest selling album.

lastdecember said:

mjscarousal said:

I hear your points...but the thing I find the most creepiest about Beyonce admirers is that they make to many excuses for her shortcomings. There is always an excuse for Beyonce when ever she is criticized. Why is that? Why is she above reproach or criticism???? Its creepy to me because people make it seem as though Beyonce is untouchable and can not be criticized.

I personally don't think it can be arguable she is the greatest "artist" of her generation because again STATISTICALLY it does not reflect that. Again like I said earlier, her PEERS, Usher, Britney Spears, Pink, Eminem and Justin Timberlake have all OUT SOLD Beyonce. Britney has TWO diamond albums, TWO from the early 00's while Beyonce has none. Hell, even USHER has a diamond album that was released in 2004 (Usher is the ONLY Black artist in the last 20 years to receive a diamond album,which is impressive) and none of Beyonce's album's pre streaming era went diamond or have sold as much as Usher. Even Pink has sold more than Beyonce and Pink never and the machine and marketing advantage as Beyonce. Eminem has TWO diamond albums and blows Beyonce out the water in album sales.

IMO, Britney is the greatest pop star of HER generation and there is a lot of people who think this too and I also often hear Eminem cited as well. IMO, longevitiy does not necessarily make an artist the greatest, but the cultural impact, classic and iconic moments a artist is able to capture and resonate to audiences is what makes them great and Britney Spears without a doubt has that over Beyonce and Britney is not doing that bad with sales herself. Beyonce uses a lot of gimmicks to stay relevant and to garner first week sales at this point in her career and I personally would not applaud that as a feat being she is not selling on the quality of her music or merit. I am tired of this overration and sympathy for Beyonce and I will always call it out. She is hyped up and showered with awards when statistically she does not deserve it.

[Edited 11/27/16 12:10pm]

What I will also add is that we are really at the END of the sales talk. Beyonce, and Britney, Alicia, Kanye etc.. all came at the end of the game. I think Britney and Justin are pretty much the last you will see with huge numbers and YES you will see big numbers from Taylor and Adele and but really the day of selling 50 million albums is freaking over for all. And though LONGEVITY is necessarily mean great artists, it does mean you can still go out on the road and sell. I think you just need to look at the album chart and singles chart and see a disconnect. Green Day debut at 1 no single gettin played, Bon Jovi debut at Number one no single on the radio, Tribe Called Quest debut at number one, no single. Also look at still puts "asses" in seats at shows, most of your top concert gross sellers are well past their "prime selling" days.

I agree with your entire post but let me clarify my point.

I think longevity is definitly important but my point was in referece to that poster implying that Beyonce is the greatest artist of her generation just because she is can play an arean. My point was that there are factors that need to be considered with that. Beyonce is the token Black girl (she always been), she has a machine and the industry pandering to her with endorsements and marketing with that alone, she has an advantage over acts like Usher, Pink, Britney etc. I wont say Justin because Justin is a media and industry darling too. There is some politics with why she is where she is today which is why I can't say for sure the reason why she is selling descet speaks to her true longevity. IMO, Longevity to me is someone who can take a 5-7or10 year break and still return with a number one album that sells descent and tour. Beyonce current success is largely due to social media and tokenism IMO that has nothing to do with her music or artistry and more so to do with marketing which again the other artists from her generation don't have the advantage. When Beyonce takes a 5 or 7 year break and can still come back and be successful, that will speak to the true longevity of her brand imo.

EDIT ALSO: I have to disagree with bolded. Adele has TWO diamond albums, TWO in this streaming era so this is not necessarily true and Adele has sold about 50 million world wide with 21. People are making excuses for Beyonces poor sales. If Adele can have two consecutive diamond albums in this streaming era, why can't Beyonce? I hate how the successes of others are minimized just to prop up overrated Beyonce. Adeles figures are VERY impressive and its amazing how she is going diamond in this streaming area, not once but twice!

[Edited 11/27/16 15:15pm]

lastdecember said:

And don't expect it to rise now as she is on the "latter: half of her career, she is now the "old timer" and sales for all are decreasing.

Right. And if album sales for all are decreasing then perhaps Beyonce's detractors ought to change
the lens in which they view her career.

mjscarousal said:

lastdecember said:

What I will also add is that we are really at the END of the sales talk. Beyonce, and Britney, Alicia, Kanye etc.. all came at the end of the game. I think Britney and Justin are pretty much the last you will see with huge numbers and YES you will see big numbers from Taylor and Adele and but really the day of selling 50 million albums is freaking over for all. And though LONGEVITY is necessarily mean great artists, it does mean you can still go out on the road and sell. I think you just need to look at the album chart and singles chart and see a disconnect. Green Day debut at 1 no single gettin played, Bon Jovi debut at Number one no single on the radio, Tribe Called Quest debut at number one, no single. Also look at still puts "asses" in seats at shows, most of your top concert gross sellers are well past their "prime selling" days.

I agree with your entire post but let me clarify my point.

I think longevity is definitly important but my point was in referece to that poster implying that Beyonce is the greatest artist of her generation just because she is can play an arean. My point was that there are factors that need to be considered with that. Beyonce is the token Black girl (she always been), she has a machine and the industry pandering to her with endorsements and marketing with that alone, she has an advantage over acts like Usher, Pink, Britney etc. I wont say Justin because Justin is a media and industry darling too. There is some politics with why she is where she is today which is why I can't say for sure the reason why she is selling descet speaks to her true longevity. IMO, Longevity to me is someone who can take a 5-7or10 year break and still return with a number one album that sells descent and tour. Beyonce current success is largely due to social media and tokenism IMO that has nothing to do with her music or artistry and more so to do with marketing which again the other artists from her generation don't have the advantage. When Beyonce takes a 5 or 7 year break and can still come back and be successful, that will speak to the true longevity of her brand imo.

EDIT ALSO: I have to disagree with bolded. Adele has TWO diamond albums, TWO in this streaming era so this is not necessarily true and Adele has sold about 50 million world wide with 21. People are making excuses for Beyonces poor sales. If Adele can have two consecutive diamond albums in this streaming era, why can't Beyonce? I hate how the successes of others are minimized just to prop up overrated Beyonce. Adeles figures are VERY impressive and its amazing how she is going diamond in this streaming area, not once but twice!

[Edited 11/27/16 15:15pm]

Oh i agree totally and understand. The only thing for me is with music and aritsts, I feel the downfall is spreading themselves all over the place too much. Your point with Adele is perfect because when she has an album out there is no nonsense, its music and its across the board with people, like celine dion or mariah in her early days. Beyonce still to me is not always "crossover" although for her genre she crosses the most. So where as Taylor and say Adele can take breaks and really have no issues when they come back, they are not in everyone's business day in day out nor is their fan base (more adele than taylor) doing social media driving people nuts. Too many times now it seems to NOT be about music anymore. I can think of tons of artists that have done more and been involved with more music than beyonce since her start. One would be Norah Jones, who is right there in sales too. As low key as Norah may be, she still can sell records after taking some time away, but she also is everywhere artistically when she isnt doing her own stuff, she is on others albums or side projects etc...she in a way is a very Prince-like type of worker. Also someone was telling me when the new Bon Jovi debuted at Number one a few weeks ago selling 129,000 it sold 128,000 actual purchases of the record and 1,000 going to streaming services. So for me streaming is more a service for an artist you may not be sure about or just don't wanna buy music. Adele i think of as the Celine Dion of this era, and Taylor kind of the Mariah (early on), universal, the gift you give for a birthday or xmas etc...Beyonce is not really that overall.

Dasein said:

lastdecember said:

And don't expect it to rise now as she is on the "latter: half of her career, she is now the "old timer" and sales for all are decreasing.

Right. And if album sales for all are decreasing then perhaps Beyonce's detractors ought to change
the lens in which they view her career.

I think of her as a Media star, plain and simple. Its a new era, she is a huge media star, I dont look at her and say Music Icon, because of the Music Icons that I think of are MJ and Madonna and Prince or an Elton John, Billy Joel etc...granted she has had a lot of hits but still her ICON status to me at least is Media, it's not first and foremost Music.

lastdecember said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree with your entire post but let me clarify my point.

I think longevity is definitly important but my point was in referece to that poster implying that Beyonce is the greatest artist of her generation just because she is can play an arean. My point was that there are factors that need to be considered with that. Beyonce is the token Black girl (she always been), she has a machine and the industry pandering to her with endorsements and marketing with that alone, she has an advantage over acts like Usher, Pink, Britney etc. I wont say Justin because Justin is a media and industry darling too. There is some politics with why she is where she is today which is why I can't say for sure the reason why she is selling descet speaks to her true longevity. IMO, Longevity to me is someone who can take a 5-7or10 year break and still return with a number one album that sells descent and tour. Beyonce current success is largely due to social media and tokenism IMO that has nothing to do with her music or artistry and more so to do with marketing which again the other artists from her generation don't have the advantage. When Beyonce takes a 5 or 7 year break and can still come back and be successful, that will speak to the true longevity of her brand imo.

EDIT ALSO: I have to disagree with bolded. Adele has TWO diamond albums, TWO in this streaming era so this is not necessarily true and Adele has sold about 50 million world wide with 21. People are making excuses for Beyonces poor sales. If Adele can have two consecutive diamond albums in this streaming era, why can't Beyonce? I hate how the successes of others are minimized just to prop up overrated Beyonce. Adeles figures are VERY impressive and its amazing how she is going diamond in this streaming area, not once but twice!

[Edited 11/27/16 15:15pm]

Oh i agree totally and understand. The only thing for me is with music and aritsts, I feel the downfall is spreading themselves all over the place too much. Your point with Adele is perfect because when she has an album out there is no nonsense, its music and its across the board with people, like celine dion or mariah in her early days. Beyonce still to me is not always "crossover" although for her genre she crosses the most. So where as Taylor and say Adele can take breaks and really have no issues when they come back, they are not in everyone's business day in day out nor is their fan base (more adele than taylor) doing social media driving people nuts. Too many times now it seems to NOT be about music anymore. I can think of tons of artists that have done more and been involved with more music than beyonce since her start. One would be Norah Jones, who is right there in sales too. As low key as Norah may be, she still can sell records after taking some time away, but she also is everywhere artistically when she isnt doing her own stuff, she is on others albums or side projects etc...she in a way is a very Prince-like type of worker. Also someone was telling me when the new Bon Jovi debuted at Number one a few weeks ago selling 129,000 it sold 128,000 actual purchases of the record and 1,000 going to streaming services. So for me streaming is more a service for an artist you may not be sure about or just don't wanna buy music. Adele i think of as the Celine Dion of this era, and Taylor kind of the Mariah (early on), universal, the gift you give for a birthday or xmas etc...Beyonce is not really that overall.

I agree with this entire post and you make some good points about Norah. She is definitly an artist and someone who cares about the music. Adele and Bruno are the same, which is why I root for them. However, I would not compare Beyonce to Norah because Norah has a couple diamond albums not only in the US but in other global markets. I just checked her receipts and she has a diamond album in Canada and in France and she has sold about 50 million copies ww. She might not be as hyped as some other artists of her era but her statistics are pretty damn good!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah_Jones_discography

True artistry and talent will always win in the end, I truly believe that. I just hate the way the music industry is going its almost as if people are being mind control and brain wash to like this mediocre crap and a lot of symbolism and subliminal messages is sending a very negative message to this generation but I am so glad you are posting again, I really enjoy your posts! It has changed around here lol

lastdecember said:

Dasein said:

Right. And if album sales for all are decreasing then perhaps Beyonce's detractors ought to change
the lens in which they view her career.

I think of her as a Media star, plain and simple. Its a new era, she is a huge media star, I dont look at her and say Music Icon, because of the Music Icons that I think of are MJ and Madonna and Prince or an Elton John, Billy Joel etc...granted she has had a lot of hits but still her ICON status to me at least is Media, it's not first and foremost Music.

Agree with this 100%. She is not a icon or legend, she is a media brand. None of her music or performances will be remembered in 30 years like we will be remembering MJ,Madonna Prince, Janet, and so forth. To be fair, I don't think there are any true music Icons that have came out in the 21st century but If I HAD to choose one I guess I would choose Britney because Britney at least has some classics under her belt and had the biggest commercial peak of this century, (but that isn't saying much). None of these light weights live up to the true elite music icons and legends. We have seen the last of their kind and God bless them!

lastdecember said:

Dasein said:

Right. And if album sales for all are decreasing then perhaps Beyonce's detractors ought to change
the lens in which they view her career.

I think of her as a Media star, plain and simple. Its a new era, she is a huge media star, I dont look at her and say Music Icon, because of the Music Icons that I think of are MJ and Madonna and Prince or an Elton John, Billy Joel etc...granted she has had a lot of hits but still her ICON status to me at least is Media, it's not first and foremost Music.

Aw man, there's nothing wrong with calling Beyonce a recording music icon. Criteria changes
over time; standards change over time as well. Too often people in this board refuse to acknowledge
contemporary artists in an effort to slavishly protect the legacy of those who came before.

I'm old as fuck which means my taste is out of touch with what is "cool" today; I suspect it's the
same with her detractors here!

MotownSubdivision said:

Those numbers aren't that impressive for a star of her stature with such a lengthy career.

I don't agree....Beyonce was never outspoken when she was with Destiny's Child....Even when they did Group-interviews she always seemed like she could not put a sentence together....That never came across as Star Power to me...She looked Gorgeous, her vocals were good but still unchallenged and she seemed ignorant....When the Label & her Management Team (including her Daddy) decided to Package her Solo-career they went ALL OUT and it worked..It was the Machine backing Beyonce that made her learn the business fast.....Not many Lead singers can walk away and Manipulate the Media, Radio markets, TV markets & Concert goers the way B-Girl has....I think her Solo Sells look normal for an Artist that people had to get to know when she decided to go SOLO...The FIRST thing Beyonce had to do right out-the-gate was prove that she's a "capable" Vocalist...Could she deliver the goods as a Solo Artist & get the job done?..Yep, she delivered, she conquered and the rest fell into place...


I should not jinx her but I feel B-Girl will go down in History like Tina & Madonna....Her bread & butter will always be her World-wide Tours...Technology has eaten up CD-sells all over the world...A cell-phone can record an entire Beyonce Concert for FREE, but the average fan still wants that LIVE-experience so they'll splurge for tickets...I have spent Hundreds of Dollars on a single concert having bought only 1 or none of that Artists CD...Even die-hard music lovers are guilty of that...

Chancellor said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Those numbers aren't that impressive for a star of her stature with such a lengthy career.

I don't agree....Beyonce was never outspoken when she was with Destiny's Child....Even when they did Group-interviews she always seemed like she could not put a sentence together....That never came across as Star Power to me...She looked Gorgeous, her vocals were good but still unchallenged and she seemed ignorant....When the Label & her Management Team (including her Daddy) decided to Package her Solo-career they went ALL OUT and it worked..It was the Machine backing Beyonce that made her learn the business fast.....Not many Lead singers can walk away and Manipulate the Media, Radio markets, TV markets & Concert goers the way B-Girl has....I think her Solo Sells look normal for an Artist that people had to get to know when she decided to go SOLO...The FIRST thing Beyonce had to do right out-the-gate was prove that she's a "capable" Vocalist...Could she deliver the goods as a Solo Artist & get the job done?..Yep, she delivered, she conquered and the rest fell into place...


I should not jinx her but I feel B-Girl will go down in History like Tina & Madonna....Her bread & butter will always be her World-wide Tours...Technology has eaten up CD-sells all over the world...A cell-phone can record an entire Beyonce Concert for FREE, but the average fan still wants that LIVE-experience so they'll splurge for tickets...I have spent Hundreds of Dollars on a single concert having bought only 1 or none of that Artists CD...Even die-hard music lovers are guilty of that...

I never said she wasn't a big star; as a matter a fact, my statement said the opposite. Beyonce is one of the biggest names in music today but her record sales were never anything special.

CDs were still selling in the 2000s when her solo career started and many others were outselling her during that time and even now when physical sales are in the toilet, there are still artists that are handily outselling her. She's beyond her commercial peak now and is doing good numbers in correlation to modern day physical sales but back in the prime of her career, she still wasn't a record-selling behemoth.

Like you said, she had/ has the machine backing her which is why she has been/ is put on a pedestal above her peers.

^

To be far, Madonna, she of the average voice, average songwriting ability, and average dancing
skills, has benefitted from the support of a "machine" as well. In fact, you could almost say the
same of Janet Jackson too. Why is Beyonce being judged here according to a different set of rules/
standards?

Dasein said:

lastdecember said:

novabrkr said:

I won't question the US sales, but the worldwide sales figures seem a bit hard to believe.

Typically, American artists sell about the same amount of albums elsewhere in the world as they do domestically. I know that Beyonce is a big star in many other areas as well, but 3-4 times more albums sold elsewhere? Where exactly?

Just check out the chart positions for the third album, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...sha_Fierce

It didn't even enter the TOP10 in many important countries, like Germany, France or Italy.

Usually it is the case but Bon Jovi would be an exception to that, they have actually sold more overseas than here. And the surprising fact is that they really were not HUGE overseas till 1992, which is after their two biggest selling US albums which sold overseas but not like the albums to come after.

Bon Jovi, Metallica, MJ and other stadium-selling acts are / were like that. They built their audience base largely by touring, whereas I don't even see that much interest in Beyoncé as a live act or even as a media icon outside the United States. Honestly, I think Rihanna has always interested the European audience more.

Each time I see that type of questionable worldwide sales figures, I'm just inclined to think the person that has done the "research" simply concluded that since there are other industrialized countries out there too, it should okay to just multiply the US sales by three or four.

The record sales in very large geographical areas like Russia or the Arabic countries are generally very modest. Just a few thousand copies for even the biggest US-based artists.

novabrkr said:

mancabdriver said:

novabrkr said:

Bon Jovi, Metallica, MJ and other stadium-selling acts are / were like that. They built their audience base largely by touring, whereas I don't even see that much interest in Beyoncé as a live act or even as a media icon outside the United States. Honestly, I think Rihanna has always interested the European audience more.

Each time I see that type of questionable worldwide sales figures, I'm just inclined to think the person that has done the "research" simply concluded that since there are other industrialized countries out there too, it should okay to just multiply the US sales by three or four.

The record sales in very large geographical areas like Russia or the Arabic countries are generally very modest. Just a few thousand copies for even the biggest US-based artists.

That's simply not true. I'm not a Beyoncé fan in the slightest, but when she announced her last tour it was big news in the UK and Europe and sold rather well from what I've heard. Why are people trying to downplay her popularity on here?

We might have discussed this same topic here earlier. I remember getting the same type of comments from a UK based orger earlier.

Yes, her popularity in the UK seems to be on a firm basis, but her music is just too rooted on R&B for it to have made an equal impact throughout the continent.

I honestly haven't met anyone that's told me that he / she listens to Beyoncé. Neither do I recall seeing her in any of my Facebook friends "likes"(as opposed to Rihanna or Gaga, who I think have had far more crossover success than Beyonce). I'm sure she's got plenty of fans especially amidst teenagers and 20-something women, but she's certainly not the "female MJ" in most countries.

novabrkr said:

MotownSubdivision said:

novabrkr said:

mancabdriver said:

novabrkr said: That's simply not true. I'm not a Beyoncé fan in the slightest, but when she announced her last tour it was big news in the UK and Europe and sold rather well from what I've heard. Why are people trying to downplay her popularity on here?

We might have discussed this same topic here earlier. I remember getting the same type of comments from a UK based orger earlier.

Yes, her popularity in the UK seems to be on a firm basis, but her music is just too rooted on R&B for it to have made an equal impact throughout the continent.

I honestly haven't met anyone that's told me that he / she listens to Beyoncé. Neither do I recall seeing her in any of my Facebook friends "likes"(as opposed to Rihanna or Gaga, who I think have had far more crossover success than Beyonce). I'm sure she's got plenty of fans especially amidst teenagers and 20-something women, but she's certainly not the "female MJ" in most countries.

AGREE and Thank you nor is she equivalent to Madonna and I don' think people are stating that she doesn't have some popularity in the UK but other global markets such as Germany, Europe, etc she is not massively popular and again her receipts and statistics reflect that. I know a lot of people even in the UK that insist she is not that that big over there and insist that Rihanna is more popular so again, I would even insist Drake is more popular than her in the UK now because just broke a UK record with the longest standing numer one. I don't think anyone is arguing that Beyonce is not an international star but she certainly is not the female MJ, hell she is not even Madonna's equivalent. Most of her albums don't even chart in those other global markets and I agree Rihanna makes more universal music that appeals to different markets. Also, all those Formation shows were not sold out. Her Wembley Shows were still up for sale a week prior to the show and she was even lowering the prices to 20 dollars to sale the seats.

MotownSubdivision said:

Dasein said:

^

To be far, Madonna, she of the average voice, average songwriting ability, and average dancing
skills, has benefitted from the support of a "machine" as well. In fact, you could almost say the
same of Janet Jackson too. Why is Beyonce being judged here according to a different set of rules/
standards?

Neither was put on the same pedestal that Beyonce is constantly put on or benefitted from the machine the same way Beyonce has. Both Janet and Madonna received criticism which Beyonce rarely does and their personas weren't entirely based on how "perfect" they were unlike Beyonce. Janet and Madonna knew how to utilize their voices better despite not being great vocalists and you're joking right? Both Janet and Madonna's dancing put Beyonce's basic, grade level moves to shame. Beyonce may put on energetic performances but don't try to insinuate she can step better than two actual dancers, one of which was formally trained.

Excellent post!!!! You better Telll it!!! Tell the truth

MotownSubdivision said:

alphastreet said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I also glossed over the implication that Beyonce's songwriting and voice are above average.

Beyonce's "songwriting" is just as basic as her elementary "dance" moves which BTW, Tina Turner did far better. Her voice is average in the sense that while she is a great vocalist, her ability to actually sing isn't anything special. Beyonce's voice doesn't have the aura or power that Aretha's does or Whitney's did, she doesn't have the range that Patti Labelle has, she doesn't have the innocence that Mariah or even Ariana Grande has, she doesn't have the depth that Adele has, she doesn't have the passion that Gaga has and she doesn't have the emotion or sensuality that Janet and Madonna had despite their subpar vocal abilities.

In short, Beyonce is average. Not terrible at anything she does but not excellent or impressive either.

To put it bluntly, a simpleton?

mjscarousal said:

novabrkr said:

We might have discussed this same topic here earlier. I remember getting the same type of comments from a UK based orger earlier.

Yes, her popularity in the UK seems to be on a firm basis, but her music is just too rooted on R&B for it to have made an equal impact throughout the continent.

I honestly haven't met anyone that's told me that he / she listens to Beyoncé. Neither do I recall seeing her in any of my Facebook friends "likes"(as opposed to Rihanna or Gaga, who I think have had far more crossover success than Beyonce). I'm sure she's got plenty of fans especially amidst teenagers and 20-something women, but she's certainly not the "female MJ" in most countries.

AGREE and Thank you nor is she equivalent to Madonna and I don' think people are stating that she doesn't have some popularity in the UK but other global markets such as Germany, Europe, etc she is not massively popular and again her receipts and statistics reflect that. I know a lot of people even in the UK that insist she is not that that big over there and insist that Rihanna is more popular so again, I would even insist Drake is more popular than her in the UK now because just broke a UK record with the longest standing numer one. I don't think anyone is arguing that Beyonce is not an international star but she certainly is not the female MJ, hell she is not even Madonna's equivalent. Most of her albums don't even chart in those other global markets and I agree Rihanna makes more universal music that appeals to different markets. Also, all those Formation shows were not sold out. Her Wembley Shows were still up for sale a week prior to the show and she was even lowering the prices to 20 dollars to sale the seats.

One thing that's laughable about the media is how they'll say Adele's album sales make Taylor Swift (who I'm in no way a fan of) look like a nobody, such as NY Post headline but wouldn't say the same about Beyonce even though it applies to her as Adele will soon pass Beyonce and Destiny's Child combined in total album sales. Say want you want about Britney Spears, but she's also sold more albums than Beyonce and Destiny's Child combined.

MotownSubdivision said:

alphastreet said:

To put it bluntly, a simpleton?

Depends on who you're referring too

Certainly not Tina

I'm feeling so annoyed that the Grammy nominees article made it such a big deal she has reached the record for most nominations for a female or something, and not for being female or hating on others, but for the fact THIS resulted in 2 hits and a creative album that were HARD to get away from all year round, unlike Lemonade, not even getting recognition at the Grammys. I'm not a drake or beiber fan but you could not get away from their songs, non fans were playing their radio hits, they were everywhere, Beyonce was not. She got the most hype in Spring for her album and summer for her tour, and for superbowl, but even Rihanna was having hits and winning critical acclaim for her latest work, and no nominations? I can't say I blame Kanye West for calling shit on the Carters and being scared for his life I know Beyonce spoke to different people with her latest project and such, and I think the concept is creative, but buying nominations so other hitmakers get NOTHING? that's sour.

[Edited 12/7/16 9:06am]

alphastreet said:

alphastreet said:

I'm feeling so annoyed that the Grammy nominees article made it such a big deal she has reached the record for most nominations for a female or something, and not for being female or hating on others, but for the fact THIS resulted in 2 hits and a creative album that were HARD to get away from all year round, unlike Lemonade, not even getting recognition at the Grammys. I'm not a drake or beiber fan but you could not get away from their songs, non fans were playing their radio hits, they were everywhere, Beyonce was not. She got the most hype in Spring for her album and summer for her tour, and for superbowl, but even Rihanna was having hits and winning critical acclaim for her latest work, and no nominations? I can't say I blame Kanye West for calling shit on the Carters and being scared for his life I know Beyonce spoke to different people with her latest project and such, and I think the concept is creative, but buying nominations so other hitmakers get NOTHING? that's sour.

[Edited 12/7/16 9:06am]

I know that you are a Bey fan so I want to thank you for giving a objective critique on Beyonce, I respect that.