I just got this book out of my Library about Motown by Adam White and with contributions by Andrew Oldham and Barney Ales who worked there for a long time.

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Very interesting and colourful, I love Motown music and this book opened a few doors for me. It looks kind of official and limited the criticism of the label, so nothing about the ratshit royalties they paid their artists and details about the suicide and drug related deaths of certain people were glossed over (Marvin Gaye, Paul Williams, Eddie Kendrix, Florence Ballard and David Ruffin for example).

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It also threw up some mysteries, it mentioned a lot of the second tier artists like Chris Clark, Edwin Starr, Chuck Jackson, The Elgins, Downbeats and even their white rock ventures with groups like the Messengers, Rare Earth and even R Dean Taylor whose country hit "Indiana wants me" was a #1 in 1970 and yet he was on a Black owned label.

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Some mysteries though, has anyone heard of an artist called "Blinky" who was a black woman who had a very bizarre hairpiece, either Afro or wiggette, and the fact they had a label called MC records, Motown Latino and Weed records.

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It mentions at least the average royalty was only a penny a single and about 5 cents an album, even though it is mostly complimentary, the book has a lot of Ales input, a guy who promoted the neck out of the music and managed to sell it, and also the racial conflict at the label. despite the fact Gordy was black and so were nearly all his artists and Gordy family members had some jobs. The promotional staff and office workers along with distributors were 99% white (Miller London being the only major Black one and he was hired in 1969 when the NAACP called out Gordy for not having enough Blacks in the office.

I also learned that most of their hits did not rise to #1 until Ales and his staff promoted them and even paid DJ's to hype a record and used techniques seen on the show Vinyl, like forcing distributors to up their orders and directives like "Berry Gordy not talking to Ales, until 1 million copies of "I'll be there" are shipped to stores, to ensure its gold and a #1. It is a bit liked possessed where Ales says the periods he was not there 1972 - 1975 and 1979 onwards, the marketing and dominance slipped. Just an interesting read and very bright looking book.

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Such as the 1980s being held up by Rick James, Commodores/Lionel Richie and the rest of the marketing on reissues of early albums, greatest hits sets and the signing of people like Georgio and Vanity who had little success as there was no promotion of their music.

They also mention how the singles were smashes, but only a few albums were hits, the standard Motown album was 2 or 3 hits mixed with a lot of bad filler and always lasted under 35 minutes and had no more than 12 songs in the 60s. Concept albums like What's going on and any Stevie wonder album after 1971 are exceptions. Generally albums were marginal and poor sellers. They also had songs that were covered by nearly every artist (Do you love me, stop in the name oflove, forever came today - covered by many artists). Plus they would force 3 or more albums a year out of top acts like the Supremes, Tempts, 4 Tops etc.

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Has anyone else read it and what do they think.

[Edited 11/8/16 13:27pm]

And my favourite acts on Motown, Gordy, Soul or Tamla records (All part of Motown corporation)

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1. Stevie Wonder (No comment, this man was Prince before Prince and just a musical God, plus he is blind too which makes him even more amazing)

2. Temptations (The ultimate male vocal group and there change to more conscious music in the later 60s, makes them unbeatable)

3. The Supremes (Pre and Post Ross)

4. Marvin Gaye (Hit and miss, but mostly hit and one incredible voice and soul!)

5. Jackson 5 (They are great, but Solo Michael and later Jackson stuff is better, plus we are comparing them a genius like Wonder and the power of the Tempts here!)

6. Four Tops (A more upbeat and mature Tempts with powerful pop melodies)

7=. Jr Walker and the All Stars (This guy could really blow and the soul he added made it even better)

7=. Martha and the Vandellas - some great songs like Heatwave and Dancing in the streets, doomed to play second fiddle to the Supremes

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Best writers at Motown

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1. Norman Whitfield - Eccentric and brilliant, a master of message soul and wah wah soundtracks - Papa was a rollin stone for instance.

2. Holland Dozier Holland - Responsible for most of the shimmering pop of the Supremes, 4 Tops, Vandellas and others in the mid 60s. Also one of the few groups of people who walked away and succeeded, they started Invictus in 1968 and signed acts like Freda Payne and Chairmen of the Board amongst others.

3. Smokey Robinson - A master of the early hits (Shop around and his work with the Miracles, he also wrote My Girl for the Tempts), plus also Smokey and his group the Miracles were major artists in their own rights - one man to get rich off Motown as he wrote as well as sang.

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Great one off records by Artists not in the Top 7 above

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My Guy - Mary Wells

Needle in a haystack - The Velevettes

Smiling faces sometime - The Undisputed truth (I think one of the ladies in it was a sister to one of the girls in Dawn)

Silly wasn't I - Valerie Simpson (Was a songwriter to with Nicolas Ashford)

Harmour Love - Syreeta Wright (Stevie Wonder's protege and one time wife, this shimmering mid 70s song has Stevie doing the backing vocals)

Walk away from Love - David Ruffin - when he was solo

Most of Rick James output

Whip it - The Dazz band

Time will reveal/Rhythm of the night - Debarge

Jamie - Eddie Holland

What are you going to do when I'm Gone - Brenda Holloway

If I was your woman - Gladys Knight and the Pips (Motown artists 1966 - 1973)

This old heart of mine - The Isley Brothers (Yes with Motown briefly from 1965 to 1969, when they started their own label)

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Love to see some of your choices

Jackson 5 and The Jacksons are great in their own, i for one, think they don't ask for nothing to Michael Jackson's solo carreer. Why do you call Marvin Gaye hit and miss?

214 said:

Jackson 5 and The Jacksons are great in their own, i for one, think they don't ask for nothing to Michael Jackson's solo carreer. Why do you call Marvin Gaye hit and miss?

His last two albums, Here my dear and In our lifetime, were fuck yous to Motown and his wife, plus the drugs addled some of his 70s output.But he was mostly untouchable from 1963's Stubborn Kind of Fellow to 1977's Got to give it up Part 1 and 2.

Adorecream said:

214 said:

Jackson 5 and The Jacksons are great in their own, i for one, think they don't ask for nothing to Michael Jackson's solo carreer. Why do you call Marvin Gaye hit and miss?

His last two albums, Here my dear and In our lifetime, were fuck yous to Motown and his wife, plus the drugs addled some of his 70s output.But he was mostly untouchable from 1963's Stubborn Kind of Fellow to 1977's Got to give it up Part 1 and 2.

I love Here My Dear, I honestly consider it one of his best albums, it's incorrect to say that its sole purpose was as a kind of fuck you, admittedly originally Marvin was going to do a half-assed job as he had to give half of the profits from the album to Anna Gordy as part of their divorce settlement but he eventually ended up delivering a deeply personal and imo beautiful record. I haven't listened to In Our Lifetime in a while but I do seem to remember it containing some strong material, although Motown did a fair bit of meddling in that one after Marvin recorded it so I don't know how much is his work.

I haven't read any books on Motown, but I did watch that excellent doco called Standing in The Shadows of Motown (2002) which I give it a 4.5 out of 5 and highly recommend

My fav acts are as follows.

1.Stevie Wonder

2. Marvin Gaye

3. The Jackson 5

4. The Supremes

5. Rick James

7. DeBarge

8. The Temptations

9. Gladys Knight & The Pips

10. Tenna Marie

[Edited 11/10/16 21:23pm]

A very good read on Mary Wells

A surprising good read on this one

very surprising

Looks interesting, but would love to read a Motown book by a Black author or the star themselves, virtually every book is written by Berry Gordy or some white dude (Usually Jewish), sometimes you want to hear the stars in their own words. The best we can do are books by authors who twist words from interviews with the stars like the David Ritz book on Snokey Robinson and the one about Marvin Gaye.

Adorecream said:

Looks interesting, but would love to read a Motown book by a Black author or the star themselves, virtually every book is written by Berry Gordy or some white dude (Usually Jewish), sometimes you want to hear the stars in their own words. The best we can do are books by authors who twist words from interviews with the stars like the David Ritz book on Snokey Robinson and the one about Marvin Gaye.

well, Mary was on the verge of writing her own book, but she died before it occured

if you read "The Seduction Of Mary Wells" you'll know why

surprise ending

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Here's a list of almost Motown Acts. Acts for some other reason didn't want to sign with Motown or just missed out. Jackie Wilson Joe Tex The Parliaments James Brown Dramatics

It's true, ready about George Clinton and his buddies about not wanting to wear 3 piece suits and sing formulaic pop when they were interested in their own brand of interactive funk. The Isleys got sick of that satin suit shit too and left by 1969. The Parliaments hit with Testify in early 1967, but did not really follow that up and only came back in the early 1970s (Although Funkadelic were in the studio by 1969) - the Funk version of Testify is incredible.

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I though JB would have been too established to be with Motown, until it was real early (Like before 1961)

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Not so sure about the Dramatics - were they to be on Mowest or when they were west coast. I love that song "In the Rain" though

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Was Joe Tex an Atlantic/Stax artist, I have an Atlantic set of discs and there are some Stax acts there and Joe Tex has a few songs on it. Also Gordy wrote two of Wilson's biggest hits - Lonely Teardrops and Reet Petite and he got paid peanuts. Wilson may have turned down Motown eventually, but by the time Motown was established (62/63) Wilson's career was in decline.

Adorecream said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Adorecream said:

It's true, ready about George Clinton and his buddies about not wanting to wear 3 piece suits and sing formulaic pop when they were interested in their own brand of interactive funk. The Isleys got sick of that satin suit shit too and left by 1969. The Parliaments hit with Testify in early 1967, but did not really follow that up and only came back in the early 1970s (Although Funkadelic were in the studio by 1969) - the Funk version of Testify is incredible.

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I though JB would have been too established to be with Motown, until it was real early (Like before 1961)

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Not so sure about the Dramatics - were they to be on Mowest or when they were west coast. I love that song "In the Rain" though

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Was Joe Tex an Atlantic/Stax artist, I have an Atlantic set of discs and there are some Stax acts there and Joe Tex has a few songs on it. Also Gordy wrote two of Wilson's biggest hits - Lonely Teardrops and Reet Petite and he got paid peanuts. Wilson may have turned down Motown eventually, but by the time Motown was established (62/63) Wilson's career was in decline.

Joe Tex was on the label Anna started by Berry's sister in 1959. He was neither a Stax or Atlantic artist in reality. He was on Dial Records, Atlantic just distributed Dial records starting in 1964. Dramatics were from Detroit and auditioned for Motown in the mid 60s. It was too many vocal groups arounds. Besides the top tier Temps and Tops, you had the Spinners not getting any play, Isleys just got their, Originals, Contours were on and off hit makers.

Yes that was a shame, alot of talented singers and groups in the 1960s and Motown could only take so many. The Contours hit big with Do you love me and then had nothing afterwards - there is a great song on my Hitsville discs, called First I look at the purse from 1965 that got to like #80 on the charts and the shit is great. Really funny in a Coasters type way with a Chris Rock sound, had Chris Rock been around in the 60s "She could be covered in a rash, long as she got that cash".

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Same for theMarvelettes, if you stopped having hits, Motown lost interest and the streets of Detroit along with every other major US city was full of talented black guys and girls who could sing anyone's ass off. I have always been interested in the second tier cats like Bobby Taylor/Blinky, the Originals (The bells is incredible!)/ Elgins/Downbeats/Chuck Jackson/willie and lester and all the others who never had the tempts or supremes pulling power.

Adorecream said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

NorthC said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Here's a list of almost Motown Acts. Acts for some other reason didn't want to sign with Motown or just missed out. Jackie Wilson Joe Tex The Parliaments James Brown Dramatics

James Brown on Motown? He wouldn't have lasted more than five minutes!

Maybe running Motown perhaps, or at least President of signing and shaping new talent, he could have the Funk brothers playing his funky arrangements.

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But I doubt their egos could stay in the same room, I mean Berry Gordy liked to be in charge and I could not even see James Brown putting him in his place. James probably was more raw soul than the frothy pop served up by many of the acts (I say that as I know there were more jazzy and R and B style artists like Shorty Long and Junior Walker).

Adorecream said:

Looks interesting, but would love to read a Motown book by a Black author or the star themselves, virtually every book is written by Berry Gordy or some white dude (Usually Jewish), sometimes you want to hear the stars in their own words. The best we can do are books by authors who twist words from interviews with the stars like the David Ritz book on Snokey Robinson and the one about Marvin Gaye.

Why don't you try the Nelson George one then, it seems to have been well received from what I can gather.

NorthC said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

NorthC said:

James Brown on Motown? He wouldn't have lasted more than five minutes!

Berry would have let him do what he wanted. This was when JB was the hottest R&B star in the land and very over on the white side too.

James Brown did so much producing for other acts on King, Gordy would have had to let him do a lot more on Motown.

Cinny said: