Superstition said:

Invincible is painfully mixed, which is actually good now, because a lot of people saw it as weak. I was lucky to own Invincible on CD, when you could only carry a portable CD player on the bus with crappy earphones which let everyone hear what you were listening to. The first stretch of that album is classic for me, by any standards (in no order) - Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible, Break Of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, You Rock My World, Butterflies... all greatest hits to me. The only dud for me is The Lost Children. I respect the content and message and the Irish-themed vocals hit, but it is far too sappy for me. I can listen to Man In The Mirror; I wouldn't dare play TLC for others, or even on my own.

I think that as time goes on, and people see MJ's transition from midwest soul prodegy in Motown's heyday, to 70's soul star, to 80's and 90's icon, to 00's celebrity, it will be more forgiving. Invincible is a great album as-is to me, and I actually appreciate he collaborated a lot.

Agree with everything you said, except I love The Lost Children. But you are right, especially about the first half of Invincible being solid. I think from Unbreakable-Speechless the album is fantastic, it seems to get a bit muddled from 2000 Watts-Cry, but picks up again after that.

Invincible is an absolutely mediocre album that fully reflects MJ's artistic decline since the Thriller album. He was a serious artist who displayed his talent both on his records and on stage. He went on to become a bubblegum popstar who made radio-formulaic songs with only numbers and statistics in mind and with the goal to please everybody so he could sell more. He measured his success according to sales. Invincible is a good album... if you enjoy the likes of N'sync, The Backstreet Boys, Beyoncé, etc. Apart from the dancing, the trademarks and the occasional (basic) songwriting what's the difference between Post-1990 MJ and, say, teen hearttrob Aaron Carter? I'm only excluding the Bad era because he sang live: the album, apart from 2 or 3 songs, is cringeworthy as are the overproduced, choreographed to the last second, pyro-obsessed shows.

[Edited 12/19/16 9:26am]

ML2016 said:

I think people misuse the word overproduced for a sound they just dont like that happens to be meticulously crafted. Sgt pepper can be labeled overproduced so can pet sounds to of the most revered records of all time. Bad isnt over produced its just very much of its time and sounds old decades later. So it would be bad production but it still has good songs.

ML2016 said:

Invincible is an absolutely mediocre album that fully reflects MJ's artistic decline since the Thriller album. He was a serious artist who displayed his talent both on his records and on stage. He went on to become a bubblegum popstar who made radio-formulaic songs with only numbers and statistics in mind and with the goal to please everybody so he could sell more. He measured his success according to sales. Invincible is a good album... if you enjoy the likes of N'sync, The Backstreet Boys, Beyoncé, etc. Apart from the dancing, the trademarks and the occasional (basic) songwriting what's the difference between Post-1990 MJ and, say, teen hearttrob Aaron Carter? I'm only excluding the Bad era because he sang live: the album, apart from 2 or 3 songs, is cringeworthy as are the overproduced, choreographed to the last second, pyro-obsessed shows.

[Edited 12/19/16 9:26am]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on prince.org.

Point me in the direction of Aaron Carter songs that sound like Little Susie, Morphine, Who Is It, They Don't Care About Us, Butterflies, Earth Song, Give Into Me.

I don't even know why I'm dignifying you with a response, seeing as you are clearly trolling.

[Edited 12/19/16 11:46am]

MattyJam said:

Well Aaron Carter sampled 80's r&b/hip hop, which isn't that far off from mj's sound, but still a very stupid comparison. I can hear how pop acts were inspired by him in the late 90's, but by then he wasn't releasing anything, so they were looking to him, internationally at least, not the other way around.

[Edited 12/19/16 20:27pm]

Scorp said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Yeah, Bashir didn't act like that when his documentary became a major media sensation. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. If Michael really had something to hide, he wouldn't have let vultures like Bashir near him. Did Michael act his age and protect himself against the allegations that followed his behavior? No, he did not. But, the fact that he didn't is very revealing in and of itself. When I saw Michael climb that tree at Neverland and watched Bashir comment on it and saw Michael's reaction--like "What's wrong with what I'm doing?" I thought, here is a boy who hasn't grown up, living in his own world. It may be different and laden with issues...but that doesn't make it wrong.

he wasn't climbing on trees during OTW or Thriller

that was all stage for shock value, most of his fans of today can't see this.....

why in the world would this man need to sit up in a tree for inspiration to be able to write songs when fans always talk about all the songs he wrote when he was younger during his recordings with Quincy Jones.........

he was not a boy, he was a grown man

Well he was smothering a llama during Thriller like a pro then!

alphastreet said:

Scorp said:

he wasn't climbing on trees during OTW or Thriller

that was all stage for shock value, most of his fans of today can't see this.....

why in the world would this man need to sit up in a tree for inspiration to be able to write songs when fans always talk about all the songs he wrote when he was younger during his recordings with Quincy Jones.........

he was not a boy, he was a grown man

Well he was smothering a llama during Thriller like a pro then!

Michael always enjoyed animals since he was a kid, plenty of people around the globe enjoy animals

he was not climbing trees to have to be inspired to write songs, that was only shock value for TV viewers watching that documentary, prior to that moment, the documentary was actually pretty solid, after that moment, that's when it started to boil over....

Scorp said:

alphastreet said:

Well he was smothering a llama during Thriller like a pro then!

Michael always enjoyed animals since he was a kid, plenty of people around the globe enjoy animals

he was not climbing trees to have to be inspired to write songs, that was only shock value for TV viewers watching that documentary, prior to that moment, the documentary was actually pretty solid, after that moment, that's when it started to boil over....

I don't disagree with that, but I do agree that doc killed what was left of his reputation and it seemed he was trying to do it to fit in but it backfired. Plenty of people don't keep llama's at their household though

[Edited 12/20/16 10:46am]

alphastreet said:

heathilly said:

alphastreet said:

I don't disagree with that, but I do agree that doc killed what was left of his reputation and it seemed he was trying to do it to fit in but it backfired. Plenty of people don't keep llama's at their household though

[Edited 12/20/16 10:46am]

Keeping a llama at your house is not really all that weird it almost as common as having a goat.

I never said it's weird, I wish I could keep one

alphastreet said:

Invincible is a good album with some skippers is all. Heaven Can Wait, Break Of Dawn, Butterflies, Don't Walk Away, You Rock My World, Whatever Happens, Heartbreaker....

It only suffered from some tracks that should have been left off

alphastreet said:

Scorp said:

Michael always enjoyed animals since he was a kid, plenty of people around the globe enjoy animals

he was not climbing trees to have to be inspired to write songs, that was only shock value for TV viewers watching that documentary, prior to that moment, the documentary was actually pretty solid, after that moment, that's when it started to boil over....

I don't disagree with that, but I do agree that doc killed what was left of his reputation and it seemed he was trying to do it to fit in but it backfired. Plenty of people don't keep llama's at their household though

[Edited 12/20/16 10:46am]

I agree, it would have been better if he had not signed up for the documentary at all

But he found himself having to resort to that measure as an incentive, trying to rectify an image by portraying the very image to try and rectify it, leading to the rebuttal TV special a month

[Edited 12/20/16 16:55pm]

As an album, it is horribly sequenced, but when it first came out, it did surprise me as being much better than I thought it would be (I, like many, were undewhelmed by lead single "You rock my world", back in 2001)

I too actually love "The lost children", it's one of my fav songs from him. It sounds like a kids song, but it has that creepy ending and oddly dark vibe about it? It is not sentimental and heavenly sung like "Heal the world", nor broadway like "Little Susie". It's almost prog like I feel as well? I don't know.

The verses are lovely and the middle 8 is just one of those rare latter day few seconds of MJ music that remind you of how amazing his voice was and also how unique his songwriting was too. Who else could write a song like that LOL? I do genuinely love that sad, dark little song.

It was alleged that Tommy Mottola hated "The lost children" and did not want it on the album, but Michael vetoed him. Critics couldn't believe that song LOL

[Edited 12/20/16 17:56pm]

Another few seconds of magic has gotta be that middle 8 on "Heartbreaker". One of the best songs on the album anyway, but that middle 8 always grabs me and the track always gets me moving LOL.

Shame the wet "You are my life" replaced "Shout" though. It never would of been a single, but it was certainly a track with guts, which the latter half of the album sorta lacked (though not sure where "Shout" would of been placed on the album track order though?)

thesexofit said:

Another few seconds of magic has gotta be that middle 8 on "Heartbreaker". One of the best songs on the album anyway, but that middle 8 always grabs me and the track always gets me moving LOL.

Shame the wet "You are my life" replaced "Shout" though. It never would of been a single, but it was certainly a track with guts, which the latter half of the album sorta lacked (though not sure where "Shout" would of been placed on the album track order though?)

Before the addition of You Are My Life the configuration for the third side of vinyl was

2000 Watts

Shout

Don't Walk Away

Privacy

Barbara Walters Presents: Michael Jackson - The Man in the Mirror (2016) not bad, I still think Barbra is shady (especially towards MJ in the past), but the unreleased footage I have never seen before makes up for it.

Goddess4Real said:

Barbara Walters Presents: Michael Jackson - The Man in the Mirror (2016) not bad, I still think Barbra is shady (especially towards MJ in the past), but the unreleased footage I have never seen before makes up for it.

just about all of this never before seen footage tends to take place during the OTW years, the really great stuff, and it will always be this way

Daaaang, Invincible is sure getting trashed this week lolll

Scorp said:

funkycat00 said:

alphastreet said:

funkycat00 said:

What was the story behind promoting Invincible? The second single was weak, and why wasn't Michael in the video?

Too tired to write it out , but I think cry was released outside the us due to 9-11 and wasn't planned (bad pun) and he wasn't wanting to be in the video...right?. Sorry if I'm misleading, I've just really blocked out a lot from that time. Butterflies was getting AirPlay upon release before becoming the final single, it was in the top 15 and #2 on r&b charts for 5 weeks I think it was. A lot of money was put into making the album and then mj said he's leaving Sony . No promotion was put towards it, and not enough shipments of the album were sent either, people who actually knew of the album couldn't find it in stores, and most from what I remember, though yrmw was popular somewhat, had NO idea the new album was out already , within months of the release

The album would have been better without Darkchild stuff IMO. I just didn't like You Rock My World....preferred Butterflies style of songs.

Cloudbuster said:

thesexofit said:

Another few seconds of magic has gotta be that middle 8 on "Heartbreaker". One of the best songs on the album anyway, but that middle 8 always grabs me and the track always gets me moving LOL.

Shame the wet "You are my life" replaced "Shout" though. It never would of been a single, but it was certainly a track with guts, which the latter half of the album sorta lacked (though not sure where "Shout" would of been placed on the album track order though?)

Before the addition of You Are My Life the configuration for the third side of vinyl was

2000 Watts

Shout

Don't Walk Away

Privacy

Hmm, slightly different order I see. I think they figured that since the angry "shout" was gone, better put "Privacy" infront of the calming "Don't walk away" instead? Prefer the order you posted anyway.

Couldn't believe it when I first saw "Cry" CD single with a new track on it LOL. Not happened since the 7 inch "Remember the time" (which was the full length "Come together" of course).

Goddess4Real said:

Goddess4Real said:

thesexofit said:

Hmm, slightly different order I see. I think they figured that since the angry "shout" was gone, better put "Privacy" infront of the calming "Don't walk away" instead? Prefer the order you posted anyway.

Couldn't believe it when I first saw "Cry" CD single with a new track on it LOL. Not happened since the 7 inch "Remember the time" (which was the full length "Come together" of course).

Yeah, it got me thinking that maybe we'd get more tracks from the sessions on the singles that followed. Then Sony cancelled them all.
Unbreakable got some airplay on UK radio and was advertised as the third single in Music Week magazine then just... disappeared.