MickyDolenz said:

Prince's subsequent films being failures doesn't negate Purple Rain's success at the box office. It wasn't the highest grossing movie of the year but it made back its budget almost tenfold. It was another platform in which Prince garnered new fans and enticed many of them to buy a copy of PR as well as his previous albums.
[Edited 8/10/16 7:20am]

MotownSubdivision said:

Prince's subsequent films being failures doesn't negate Purple Rain's success at the box office. It wasn't the highest grossing movie of the year but it made back its budget almost tenfold. It was another platform in which Prince garnered new fans and enticed many of them to buy a copy of PR as well as his previous albums.

But the majority only bought the Purple Rain soundtrack. The albums afterward sold less and less in the USA and there was a big drop from Purple Rain to Around The World. The next really popular album was Batman and it was probably helped by that almost anything Batman was selling well in 1989. The only Top 10 single was Batdance though. The other 2 singles (Partyman, Arms Of Orion) made it to the Top 40. Then the Diamonds And Pearls album sold well, probably his most mainstream popular post-Purple Rain album in the US. Stuff like Lovesexy was not really commercial and the cover did not help because some stores did not stock it or put it behind the counter like that John Lennon & Yoko Ono album Two Virgins or people were embarrased to buy it. But the hard rock groups and singers like Whitney Houston, John Mellencamp, and Gloria Estefan had more consistant sales. Singles wise some of the songs Prince put out recieved little airplay on Top 40. I never heard songs like I Wish U Heaven, Glam Slam, Anotherloverholenyohead, or If I Was Your Girfriend on the local pop stations and the R&B station played a remix of Glam Slam, not the regular version and didn't play I Wish U Heaven. This was the era of dance divas like Lisa Lisa, Karyn White, Janet Jackson, Jody Watley, Expose, Paula Abdul, Taylor Dayne, etc. and New Jack Swing (especially Bobby Brown & Al B. Sure!) in addition to the rock groups, & AC style singers like Richard Marx, Michael Bolton & Whitney Houston. Plus rap was becoming mainstream with Salt n Pepa, Tone Loc, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Fat Boys, LL Cool J, 2 Live Crew, Young MC, etc and also on the R&B stations with EPMD, Heavy D, Eric B & Rakim, etc. There was also the popularity of acts like Depeche Mode, Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, & The Cure. Prince's music didn't really fit. New Kids On The Block was more successful than Prince's late 1980s albums. So was Milli Vanilli. On R&B radio, I think the rise of hip hop killed the androgynous image Prince and other R&B acts had in the early 1980s. Even Full Force & Ready For The World cut off the Jheri Curls and got flat tops and others got rid of the glitter outfits and makeup. New Jack Swing era groups was not dressed like the Midas Touch video by Midnight Star.

^I guess it's just different per country. All the Prince singles you mention got plenty of airplay on Dutch radio. Even Glam Slam was hit over here. You're right about hiphop killing Prince's androgynous image. By the time Diamonds and Pearls and, especially, he was becoming more macho (the Prince version of macho anyway.)
[Edited 8/10/16 10:17am]

Some of you folks don't seem to understand that sales don't equate to talent.

Graycap23 said:

Some of you folks don't seem to understand that sales don't equate to talent.

perhaps,but when the discussion is about who was the "biggest" of any decade,sales must be considered too.

SoulAlive said:

80s flashback: "Love Song" by Madonna and Prince (1989)

I like the part where Madonna sounds pissed off as she says "Don't try to tell me what your enemies taught you!"

SoulAlive said:

It the topic is biggest in sales....I agree, but that isn't much of a discussion. Just simply look at the stats and the conversation is over.

Graycap23 said:

Some of you folks don't seem to understand that sales don't equate to talent.

Talent in itself doesn't equate to someone being big though, sales of records do. Like Garth Brooks and Shania Twain sold more than Willie Nelson or Loretta Lynn. It's the music business, no different than any other business. They're trying to sell as much as possible. I'm pretty sure more people heard of Rihanna than Sun Ra. So going by sales and hit singles, Prince is not really the biggest of the 1980s, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Def Leppard, and others sold more than him, which is an indicator of popularity. Madonna was also recieved radio airplay longer than Prince. Madonna still had hits after 1994 when Prince last had a big hit single. Walking around with "slave" on your face and calling yourself a symbol is not a way to get people to buy your records. Just makes jokes for comedians.

MickyDolenz said:

Prince was an artist who went against the Giants because he could. He could have played the game.....but he choose to change the game.

Graycap23 said:

Prince was an artist who went against the Giants because he could. He could have played the game......but he choose to change the game.

In what way? The internet changed the music business, because people started downloading music for free. Nowadays record contracts with the majors often involve them taking profits from touring and merchandising called 360 deals. So as far as the performers go, that's probably worse than whatever Prince was rebelling against. The acts before generally didn't have to share tour profits unless they were signed to Total Experience Records, in which Lonnie Simmons took all the money. The new acts signed to majors still don't usually own their master recordings, so Prince changed nothing as far as how the labels are run. Some acts make money outside of music like rappers with clothing brands or advertising stuff. Nelly is part owner of a NASCAR style racing team and a basketball team. Notice that LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and Will Smith focus more on acting than making records as they can make more money doing that.

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

Prince was an artist who went against the Giants because he could. He could have played the game......but he choose to change the game.

In what way?

Interesting... I think at the end of the day, what Prince was after, was total artistic freedom...for himself. He often talked about other acts (Jack White, Adele...) not getting what they deserved, but I think that was mostly him trying to convince himself that he was doing the right thing with his fight against record labels. But, all things considered, he got what he wanted and that's what counts.
And as for what "big" means, sure it's about record sales, but mostly it's about capturing people's imagination...the zeitgeist...the spirit of a certain era. Prince did that in the 1980s. Def Leppard didn't, no matter how many albums they sold. Just like Bob Dylan wasn't the best selling artist of the 1960s, but no one in their right mind could write a history about that period without mentioning him.

This is what I was trying to point out.Record sales tell only part of the story.I consider Prince,Madonna and Michael to be "the big three" of the 80s because those three artists truly defined pop culture in that decade.In various ways,they all broke barriers and did things that nobody else was doing.It's impossible to think of the 80s without thinking of those three and the impact they made.

NorthC said:

And as for what "big" means, sure it's about record sales, but mostly it's about capturing people's imagination...the zeitgeist...the spirit of a certain era. Prince did that in the 1980s.

SoulAlive said:

This is what I was trying to point out.Record sales tell only part of the story.I consider Prince,Madonna and Michael to be "the big three" of the 80s because those three artists truly defined pop culture in that decade.In various ways,they all broke barriers and did things that nobody else was doing.It's impossible to think of the 80s without thinking of those three and the impact they made.

Lol..............I never think of Madonna as it relates to 80's music.

I only address it when u guys mention it.

SoulAlive said:

This is what I was trying to point out.Record sales tell only part of the story.I consider Prince,Madonna and Michael to be "the big three" of the 80s because those three artists truly defined pop culture in that decade.In various ways,they all broke barriers and did things that nobody else was doing.It's impossible to think of the 80s without thinking of those three and the impact they made.

NorthC said:

And as for what "big" means, sure it's about record sales, but mostly it's about capturing people's imagination...the zeitgeist...the spirit of a certain era. Prince did that in the 1980s.

Agree

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

Prince was an artist who went against the Giants because he could. He could have played the game......but he choose to change the game.

In what way? The internet changed the music business, because people started downloading music for free. Nowadays record contracts with the majors often involve them taking profits from touring and merchandising called 360 deals. So as far as the performers go, that's probably worse than whatever Prince was rebelling against. The acts before generally didn't have to share tour profits unless they were signed to Total Experience Records, in which Lonnie Simmons took all the money. The new acts signed to majors still don't usually own their master recordings, so Prince changed nothing as far as how the labels are run. Some acts make money outside of music like rappers with clothing brands or advertising stuff. Nelly is part owner of a NASCAR style racing team and a basketball team. Notice that LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and Will Smith focus more on acting than making records as they can make more money doing that.

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

Prince was an artist who went against the Giants because he could. He could have played the game......but he choose to change the game.

In what way? The internet changed the music business, because people started downloading music for free. Nowadays record contracts with the majors often involve them taking profits from touring and merchandising called 360 deals. So as far as the performers go, that's probably worse than whatever Prince was rebelling against. The acts before generally didn't have to share tour profits unless they were signed to Total Experience Records, in which Lonnie Simmons took all the money. The new acts signed to majors still don't usually own their master recordings, so Prince changed nothing as far as how the labels are run. Some acts make money outside of music like rappers with clothing brands or advertising stuff. Nelly is part owner of a NASCAR style racing team and a basketball team. Notice that LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and Will Smith focus more on acting than making records as they can make more money doing that.

CORRECTION: Public Enemy, David Bowie, & Prince were promoting and selling their music on the World Wide Web right BEFORE music fans started the [illegal] downloading revolution and definitely years BEFORE Apple Computers thought about iTunes.

TonyVanDam said:

CORRECTION: Public Enemy, David Bowie, & Prince were promoting and selling their music on the World Wide Web right BEFORE music fans started the [illegal] downloading revolution and definitely years BEFORE Apple Computers thought about iTunes.

That only helped themselves, it didn't change anything about how the labels ran their business or what other acts did, so they did not "change the game". Motley Crue and Genesis owned their masters in the 1980s, years before Prince started talking about it. Motley Crue owned theirs from the beginning, they just leased them to a major. Those exceptions still did not change the business. So Prince still did not change anything, he only helped himself. It also helped that Prince was already rich and had an audience from his Warners days for touring. A new act off the street is not going to make a lot of demands if they're offered a deal. Look at TLC. George Michael had problems with Sony for years.

SoulAlive said:

:nod:

Record sales are only part of an artist's credentials. The 80's was bursting at the seams with insanely popular superstars but 3 of them stand out from the pack beyond the music they made. They transcended music and were pop culture icons who would have ruled a decade on their own had they not shared the same era.

TonyVanDam said:

MickyDolenz said:

In what way? The internet changed the music business, because people started downloading music for free. Nowadays record contracts with the majors often involve them taking profits from touring and merchandising called 360 deals. So as far as the performers go, that's probably worse than whatever Prince was rebelling against. The acts before generally didn't have to share tour profits unless they were signed to Total Experience Records, in which Lonnie Simmons took all the money. The new acts signed to majors still don't usually own their master recordings, so Prince changed nothing as far as how the labels are run. Some acts make money outside of music like rappers with clothing brands or advertising stuff. Nelly is part owner of a NASCAR style racing team and a basketball team. Notice that LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and Will Smith focus more on acting than making records as they can make more money doing that.

CORRECTION: Public Enemy, David Bowie, & Prince were promoting and selling their music on the World Wide Web right BEFORE music fans started the [illegal] downloading revolution and definitely years BEFORE Apple Computers thought about iTunes.

Also correct me if im wrong, Didn't Prince receive a Webby Award and didn't he go acoustic on Don't Play Me? I need MickyDolenz 2 help me out on why he received that award. All those acts u mention were not musicians so it was best they did other things beside rapping. They were smart, they know rapping is a young mans game. u better have backup if not u will end up on the list: "Where r they Now" like so many of the people u previously mentioned

pennylover said:

David Bowie wasn't a musician?

Graycap23 said:

So 360 deals must be a good thing for you. Prince did not change anything about the music business itself. A new act self-releasing their own music and owning their masters doesn't really mean anything if not many people know about it. Hits are profitable because labels and/or the act can lease them out to movies or TV commercials or they get played on oldies or classic rock radio stations. Marvin Gaye's estate and Motown makes money anytime Let's Get It On is in a commercial. In Prince's case, an advertiser or someone wanting a sample would most likely want to use one of his 1980s hits that is familiar to more people, not something on one of his post Warner Brothers albums, which are mostly out of print anyway. So business wise, that stuff isn't really worth much, so owning it means little financially. Owning the more popular Warners era stuff is where the money is and that is only if Prince allowed his music to be used in media. Just owning the masters and sitting on it or letting them go out of print is not helping to make money. Also if he decides he wants to overdub new lyrics on the tracks and release them that way (sort of like Sharon Osbourne changing the intruments on a couple of Ozzy albums because she did not want to pay royalties to the original players), the audience might not want to buy that.

MotownSubdivision said:

SoulAlive said:

This is what I was trying to point out.Record sales tell only part of the story.I consider Prince,Madonna and Michael to be "the big three" of the 80s because those three artists truly defined pop culture in that decade.In various ways,they all broke barriers and did things that nobody else was doing.It's impossible to think of the 80s without thinking of those three and the impact they made.

Record sales are only part of an artist's credentials. The 80's was bursting at the seams with insanely popular superstars but 3 of them stand out from the pack beyond the music they made. They transcended music and were pop culture icons who would have ruled a decade on their own had they not shared the same era.

This is a point often not stated but also very true. They would have ruled any decade they were in which speaks to their unique talents and abilities more so than the actual 80's decade itself.

[Edited 8/10/16 16:47pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

pennylover said:

Also correct me if im wrong, Didn't Prince receive a Webby Award and didn't he go acoustic on Don't Play Me? I need MickyDolenz 2 help me out on why he received that award. All those acts u mention were not musicians so it was best they did other things beside rapping. They were smart, they know rapping is a young mans game. u better have backup if not u will end up on the list: "Where r they Now" like so many of the people u previously mentioned

David Bowie wasn't a musician?

I was not talking about what TonyVanDan wrote i was speaking on what MickyDolenz wrote about Nellly, LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and Will Smith. Go back and read it again ang get back with me

pennylover said:

My bad!

MickyDolenz said:

Album sales are only one factor in terms of an artist's popularity and impact though. Huey Lewis and the News' Sports was the second highest selling album of 1984 right behind Thriller. Considering the odds stacked against the band, that is an incredible feat for Huey Lewis and the News but nobody is going to say that they were bigger than Prince was because their album sold more than Purple Rain at the time. The group was very successful and popular but they didn't transcend reality and break down barriers like Prince did. All those glam and hair metal bands were red hot commodities and it shows in their album sales but that alone doesn't make them bigger than Prince was. They weren't enigmatic and unusual and inspiring people's curiosity en masse in the same way as Prince.

We get it MickeyDolenz don't like Prince or he puts Prince last on any list. You wasting your time fellow orgers arguing with him. MJ, Prince and Madonna were the top 3 biggest music stars from the 1980's. The Beatles, Elvis and The Rolling Stones from the 60's. Oh look The Monkees nowhere to be seen on that 60's best of . I can be pedantic too.

[Edited 8/11/16 11:33am]

Guitarhero said:

Oh look The Monkees nowhere to be seen on that 60's best of

There's a difference. I've never said The Monkees are the most popular act of the 1960s.

Guitarhero said:

Elvis belongs to the 1950s. The Beatles, The Stones and Bob Dylan are the biggest acts of the 60s. And Jimi Hendrix. And James Brown. Damn! So many great acts back then that you just can't make a top 3, it has to be a top 5. And I like Micky's contributions to this site. So far, the discussion has been interesting.
[Edited 8/11/16 12:49pm]

NorthC said:

Guitarhero said:

We get it MickeyDolenz don't like Prince or he puts Prince last on any list. You wasting your time fellow orgers arguing with him. MJ, Prince and Madonna were the top 3 biggest music stars from the 1980's. The Beatles, Elvis and The Rolling Stones from the 60's. Oh look The Monkees nowhere to be seen on that 60's best of . I can be pedantic too.

[Edited 8/11/16 11:33am]

Elvis belongs to the 1950s. The Beatles, The Stones and Bob Dylan are the biggest acts of the 60s. And Jimi Hendrix. And James Brown. Damn! So many great acts back then that you just can't make a top 3, it has to be a top 5. And I like Micky's contributions to this site. So far, the discussion has been interesting. [Edited 8/11/16 12:49pm]

Yes your right about Elvis in the 50's , i only listen to music from the 60's up tp date and i agree with James Brown , Jimi Hendrix. I was not saying anything bad about mickeydolenz or his contributions not my style. Just saying my opinion he seems to put Prince down the list of a influential star of the 80's. We are on a Prince forum Just sticking up for our guy .Peace.