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That shit once again? | |
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What about it? JT is overrated, period. He is mediocre in every sense of the word. Yes, he greatly benefits from being white and being a fake corn ball.
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White "Straight" Still Relatively Young Wealthy Pop Star Tall Male ...yeah, i'd say privlidged [Edited 8/5/16 10:28am] I'll leave it alone babe...just be me | |
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Teens are not fond of Prince. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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One thing I found insincere was how many artists were shouting out Biggie and Tupac after right their deaths when you know damn well their influences were like................ MELLE MEL, ICE-T or someone else, but they never assigned their shoutouts to them. |
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mjscarousal said:
LOL
I agree Justin is not the brightest bulb on the lamp. He benefits mostly from his white priveledge. I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed to see you bring race into it. I'm not a huge JT fan by any means but he can sing, he writes his own stuff and in fairness, he does have some good songs. The FutureSexLoveSounds album was really good. Sure, he's nowhere near as good as the ones who influenced him, but there's plenty worse than him in the charts. I don't think him being white has anything to do with his success. | |
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I am disappointed that you don't see how his white priveledge plays an integral role in his success. He is mediore in almost everthing, singing, dancing, writing, etc. There are plenty of Black singers that can sing and dance circles around him but because they are not white they will never reach his success. JT is the modern day Elvis. I stand firm on that stance. [Edited 8/9/16 19:08pm] | |
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I have to admit Dick in a box was funny https://www.youtube.com/w...wCbbMgp3Lw it won him an Emmy Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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mjscarousal said:
I am disappointed that you don't see how his white priveledge plays an integral role in his success. He is mediore in almost everthing, singing, dancing, writing, etc. There are plenty of Black singers that can sing and dance circles around him but because they are not white they will never reach his success. JT is the modern day Elvis. I stand firm on that stance. [Edited 8/9/16 19:08pm] I normally agree with you on a lot of things on here but what you've just said is a load of bollocks. Like I said before, I don't rate JT that highly. His music is just not my thing but you can't say he's a mediocre singer. Check out live performances of Until The End Of Time and Another Song All Over Again on YouTube. He has a good voice. He's not big because he's white. He's big because he was a member of a boyband who was huge and when he left and went solo he had a few big hits at the right time. Besides, there are plenty of black singers in the charts who are far worse than he is too. As far as modern day Elvis, he's a long long way from that. Elvis was a great singer, not just good. Great. And he was the ultimate showman. Sure, he may have had an advantage of being white in the 50's and became insanely popular whereas equally deserving acts like Little Richard were left behind but that's hardly Elvis fault and it doesn't take away from how good he was. [Edited 8/9/16 23:29pm] | |
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LOL. My comparision between JT and Elvis is not comparing their talents specfically but more so comparing their white priveldge and cultural appropiation and how it helped their succes. Like Elvis, JT has cultural appropiated Black music, culture and artistry in order to become where he is today. Like Elvis, JT has had far more talented Black comtemporaries that get far less recognition and some completely overlooked. What I find interesting about JT is that the establishment praises him for making "Black music" and will even go as far as to compare him to Black legends such as MJ, Prince, Stevie, Sammy Davis, etc despite making generic water down R&B music. Its sad becausse artists like Anthony Hamilton and Mint Condition does what he does far better but get far less recognition. Thats what makes him overrated. | |
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thats fine because everything we say we all might not agree on.mjscarousal said:
LOL. My comparision between JT and Elvis is not comparing their talents specfically but more so comparing their white priveldge and cultural appropiation and how it helped their succes. Like Elvis, JT has cultural appropiated Black music, culture and artistry in order to become where he is today. Like Elvis, JT has had far more talented Black comtemporaries that get far less recognition and some completely overlooked. What I find interesting about JT is that the establishment praises him for making "Black music" and will even go as far as to compare him to Black legends such as MJ, Prince, Stevie, Sammy Davis, etc despite making generic water down R&B music. Its sad becausse artists like Anthony Hamilton and Mint Condition does what he does far better but get far less recognition. Thats what makes him overrated. Well I can definitely agree that Mint Condition and Anthony Hamilton are better than JT. And to compare him to Jackson or Prince is laughable. There are people I know personally, both black and white, who are better than Timberlake but whose albums either flopped or remain unreleased. I don't equate what Timberlake does to what Elvis did though. At that time, black singers like Little Richard were screwed over because they were black. I seen one interview with Little Richard where he said one of the conditions in his contract was that he allow a white singer to cover his songs or in some cases, release them before he could. It's no secret that the likes of Elvis capitalised on that. What sets Elvis apart from a lot of his white contemporaries was that even if things were on a more level playing field, he still would have been a success because he was really talented. He couldn't write a song but he could sure sing them. With Timberlake it's different. I don't see him as doing "black music". If you are to call pop black, then by that same token, rock is also black and Bon Jovi and co are guilty of the same crimes of making money off of black music. | |
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The bolded proves and reinforces my points perfectly.
Its odd you don't see how his priveledge has helped him compared to someone like a Anthony Hamilton. Its fine if you think he is talented but to act like his whitness has not helped him "some" is kinda ridiculous when it has. I actually find JC or a Robin Thicke to be more talented than Justin but for some reason he seems to be the golden boy that they want to represent blue eyed soul and R&B. Now more than ever, there is a shift with who can sing soul/r&b music and its disturbing that white people are becoming the face of a genre that was specifically created by African Americans. This is all embedded in racism, discrimination, tokenism and priveledge. The same priveledge that you insist doesn't exist in his success. African American R&B singers can not cross over or become popular making R&B in this era and thats sad. | |
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mjscarousal said:
The bolded proves and reinforces my points perfectly.
Its odd you don't see how his priveledge has helped him compared to someone like a Anthony Hamilton. Its fine if you think he is talented but to act like his whitness has not helped him "some" is kinda ridiculous when it has. I actually find JC or a Robin Thicke to be more talented than Justin but for some reason he seems to be the golden boy that they want to represent blue eyed soul and R&B. Now more than ever, there is a shift with who can sing soul/r&b music and its disturbing that white people are becoming the face of a genre that was specifically created by African Americans. This is all embedded in racism, discrimination, tokenism and priveledge. The same priveledge that you insist doesn't exist in his success. African American R&B singers can not cross over or become popular making R&B in this era and thats sad. I see what you're getting at but the way I see it is that JT is a different genre than Anthony Hamilton and Mint Condition and a lot of other RnB artists. He's more pop based, which, along with his boyband history, makes him more marketable. I'm assuming you are black so I can kind of understand why you'd prefer black artists to get the respect they deserve. Hell, as you can see from my avatar, I'm as white as white gets and I'd LOVE to see Mint Condition and co find a bigger audience. But the fact is, their music is not made to appeal to a mass audience like how that new JT song is. A few years ago it was Usher and Beyonce (I like some of Ushers old song but I don't think like any Beyonce song) who were in the charts constantly. Its all about how radio friendly the music is. The music industry is a fickle business. Even the small label I'm on want something marketable. Something they can sell. JT's music is more marketable. That's why he's raking it in. Not because he's white. If being white gives you an automatic advantage, I'd be a millionaire by now.  | |
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So you don't think White people have an automatic advantage over Black people or minorities? That is what white priviledge is dear. Whether we are talking about music, job force, marketing, etc white priviledge does exist. Just because you are not a millionaire doesn't mean you don't have white priviledge in other aspects of your life which automatically comes with being White (regardless of yours skill, talent, education, etc).
I agree with the bolded. However, Its unfair how JT gets accolades and applauded for making "authentic R&B" when he makes generic imitations of it. He is presented as the face of a genre to often when there are Black artists who represent the genre more authentically. [Edited 8/10/16 16:47pm] | |
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That kind of marketing has been going on for decades since Pat Boone covered Little Richard songs Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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JUSTIFIED JUSTIN MICHAEL ALBUM FUTURESEX JUSTIN PRINCE ALBUM
P o o |/, P o o |\ | |
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20/20 Experience both MJ and Prince albums Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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Exactly this type of formulaic marketing has been going on for years. I am just calling it like I see it | |
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And with every boy band since the Osmonds Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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mjscarousal said:
So you don't think White people have an automatic advantage over Black people or minorities? That is what white priviledge is dear. Whether we are talking about music, job force, marketing, etc white priviledge does exist. Just because you are not a millionaire doesn't mean you don't have white priviledge in other aspects of your life which automatically comes with being White (regardless of yours skill, talent, education, etc).
I agree with the bolded. However, Its unfair how JT gets accolades and applauded for making "authentic R&B" when he makes generic imitations of it. He is presented as the face of a genre to often when there are Black artists who represent the genre more authentically. [Edited 8/10/16 16:47pm] I have heard it said a lot that white people have an advantage in the things you mentioned but I've never actually witnessed it in real life. I know I've never benefitted from being white, and I wouldn't expect to. I'm not doubting that it happens in certain backward places, but I've just never personally seen it. And I'm from Ireland, which when it comes to these kinds of issues, is as backwards as it gets. I think that's a conversation for the politics and religion forum though  The thing about Timberlake, to me, is that he's not an RnB star. He's a pop star. So he's marketed as such and therefore guaranteed to appeal to a wider audience. His music is perfect for selling, in that it's catchy, non threatening and easy to listen to. The lyrics are not asking any hard hitting questions of the listener. In terms of himself, he's not a bad looking guy. He's not my type but he's got appeal with most females. Another aspect that can be exploited when it comes time to sell his music. I would argue that both Usher and Chris Brown are in a similar position to JT, only I personally like fewer of their songs, but being black hasn't held them back. That's how I see things anyway. You probably won't agree but there you go. It's just an issue where we don't see eye to eye on it but I do like to hear your point of view, regardless of my own. But please, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, please don't call me "dear". Its very condescending and I don't like it. Ok, honey?  | |
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PeggyMcIntosh said: White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me. 3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live. 4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me. 6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. 7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. 8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race. 9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege. 11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race. 12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair. 13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability. 14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them. 15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection. 16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race. 17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color. 18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race. 19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial. 20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race. 21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. 22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion. 23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider. 24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race. 25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race. 26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race. 27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared. 28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine. 29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me. 30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have. 31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices. 32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races. 33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race. 34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking. 35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race. 36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones. 37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally. 38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do. 39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race. 40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen. 41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me. 42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race. 43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem. 44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race. 45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race. 46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin. 47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us. 48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household. 49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership. 50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social. |
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Cinny said:
PeggyMcIntosh said: White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me. 3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live. 4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me. 6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. 7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. 8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race. 9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege. 11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race. 12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair. 13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability. 14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them. 15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection. 16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race. 17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color. 18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race. 19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial. 20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race. 21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. 22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion. 23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider. 24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race. 25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race. 26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race. 27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared. 28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine. 29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me. 30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have. 31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices. 32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races. 33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race. 34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking. 35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race. 36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones. 37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally. 38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do. 39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race. 40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen. 41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me. 42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race. 43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem. 44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race. 45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race. 46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin. 47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us. 48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household. 49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership. 50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social. A lot of that is probably true and a lot of it is pure nonsense but this is a thread about Justin Timberlake, not "how white people have it so good" so I won't comment much about this now but all I can say is if America treats minorities that badly, it's not the place I thought it was. I do think that making broad, sweeping statements like "white people have privileges that minorities don't" is a bit misleading though. Surely you can't think that all white people have it so good? And if you do, are you resentful towards the ones that do have this so called privilege? | |
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Unfortunetely because of the way U.S. radio is now, there's no way that a band or singer/songwriter who's not an ex-boy band member turned solo artist would ever get popular; the system will continue to put out guys like Justin and the other young man also named Justin as well as Beyonce and ladies like her. All that one can do is turn off the radio and starve it, or lean on the U.S. government to reregulate the frack out of radio and other media like it used to and also make sure that nobody can do what was done in 1996 again. | |
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