namepeace said:

mjscarousal said:

If this is your personal opinion, I will respect it but I respectfully disagree and I think your opinions are a bit naive. First off, Beyonce is no where near the best selling artist of her generation (thats an outright false statement that you made). She was not even the best selling artist last decade, Usher was. Artists like Usher, Pink, Alicia Keys, Taylor, Adele have sold more albums than her world wide so how is she amongst the best selling? She doesn't have as many number one's as lets Rihanna and countless others so your assumption that she is "at the top" is not true.

See, you're getting all emotional about it. I don't own more than a few Bey songs so I can talk objectively about it. You only named only a handful of artists that have -- if your figures are true -- outsold Beyonce in worldwide record sales. So, relative to all the other artists selling albums these days, she one of the best selling artists of her generation. I didn't use the words "at the top" in terms of her record sales, if I even used that term at all.

You're reading more into it because you're emotionally vested in the argument. I'm not.

As I mentioned in my last post, Beyonce is backed by a machine and the industry which gives her leverage over her peers who do not have that. I disagree with you insisting that her albums are "cultural events" the same as Michael and Madonna.... that is a MAJOR exaggeration

There you go again. All I said was her albums have become pop culture events. You're getting way too defensive when you imply what I said, instead of reading what I actually said. If you want to deny her albums have become pop culture events, that's on you. Not every event has to be Thriller to be an event. Don't get so defensive, though I know you're a devoted MJ fan.

More later.

[Edited 7/1/16 19:36pm]

I am not emotionally invested, you simply made a statement that was outright false and I am simply enlightening you. Its false to say that she is one of the best selling artists of her generation when she is not. Arguing that an artist is the best selling artist does imply that one is the top seller or one of the top sellers. This is not my opinion though, this is based on receipts. Your making your statement as an opinion when its not backed by receipts.

These four artists are listed as the Top 4 sellers of the 2000 century. This albums have surpassed 30 million in sells.

Eminem

The Beatles

Adele

Eminem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_of_the_2000s_(century)

Beyonce is not on this list

For artists that have a diamond album (20-29) in sell figures of this 2000 century

Linkin Park

Britney Spears

Norah Jones

Backstreet Boys

Eminem

Madonna

Nsync

Amy Winehouse

Adele

Aviril Lavign

Pink

Usher

Again, Beyonce is not on this list.

Therefore, your statement is false and this has nothing to do with my dislike for Beyonce or me being emotionally invested. This is based on receipts and facts. Web Link is there at your disposal for you to check.

On the music video cultural event: If my opinion sounded defensive it was because your comment was beyond blasphemy to Michael and Madonna. The fact that you would even think to compare Beyonce to a MJ event is...... . I thought your comparision was overly exaggerated. Her "events' are no where near that level and I see now you are saying that but you definitly implied in your last post that her events were on the same level as theres. Why even mention them? Her events are no where on that level, she is all artificial hype and her receipts show it.

.

namepeace said:

mjscarousal said:

In fact IMO they are the exact opposite. Her music and albums are like fast food, they are hype for one minute but they quickly fade away. Its been almost 2 months since that Lemonade album came out and nobody is talking about that album. That album hasn't even generated any number one hits like Drakes and Rihannas, so how has this album made a significant impact on our culture?

Because people are still talking about it. She's making her living off the buzz. She's using the NBA superstar format -- her primary product only generates exposure for her larger brand. In fact, there has been coverage that addresses your question.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2016/06/27/beyonce-song-of-the-summer/86187490/

I never said that she was without talent but her marketing has nothing to do with her talent or her music and is often relied upon gimmicks and PR tricks to keep her in the media.

Who's being naive now? You're telling me Madge, MJ, Prince, and scores of other pop stars didn't use their own PR armies and angles, if not outright gimmicks, to remain relevant to audiences? To be sure, great artists' work sells itself, but make no mistake, iconic moments like the Thriller video and Purple Rain were just as calibrated to attract pop audiences to the respective artists' brand. And Madge? Come on now . . . she was a master media manipulator.

Again, I don't see how that makes her the most "creative pop artist" just because she knows how to stay in the headlines which has nothing to do ith her actual music or talent. Beyonce is all smoke and mirrors. If she has legions of dedicated fans, why do Adele and Taylor Swift sell over 20 million copies an album and Beyonce only sells 5 million? I am not saying she is not successful but you are exaggerating her success and impact. Your buying into her PR which is mostly false.

Adele referred to Bey the other night as "Jesus f----g Christ." Nobody said the woman was Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin or Tina Turner. She just realizes that the musical creativity you're referring to is not the type of creativity that creates a media brand. And she's done that. That's why people respect her.

When you step back and look at it objectively, without feeling threatened, you'll see the reasons RS made those statements is that her music is only part of what makes her successful in the Pop Game.

[Edited 7/1/16 19:36pm]

You keep saying that people are talking about Beyonces album ...but can you back this claim with facts and receipts??? Because the receipts I posted say otherwise. Beyonce hasn't generated any hits off this album and none of the songs play on the radio but Rihanna has a number one, Drake just tied MJ's record with longest number one song. IMO, these receipts, hits, singles, etc reflect popularity amongst the general public. Hype does not necessarily reflect that because it can be generated by the artists PR and not necessarily by the public.

The reason why I called you naive was because you insisted that this PR article by Beyonce who has a stake in RS was a reflection of how the public views her when that is not necessarily true.

I also dont know why you keep comparing MJ, Prince and Madonna to Beyonce, I find it very disrespectful and ridiculous. Madonna was a media manipulator but Madonna wrote her own songs and was an artist FIRST. The media also did not kiss her ass and she was criticized heavily for being a media manipulator unlike Beyonce who relies solely on being a media darling despite lack luster output.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe...JUST maybe Adele made that comment because its the "in" thing to do and its cool to publicly proclaim to be a "Beyonce fan"? I have heard Adele make similiar comments about Rihanna and Drake as well. I dont know why you think what Adele thinks about Beyonce in some way validates Beyonce when it doesn't. You say that she is not Tina Turner or Aretha but Beyonce has more grammys than them and she will probably surpass Aretha. Thats utterly ridiculous imo and undeserving. She is overrated.

Again You keep saying I need to be objective but its really you who needs to be objective because I have provided receipts for all my opinions. You keep insisting your claims without backing them with any facts. If that is your opinion than thats fine we can agree to disagree.

[Edited 7/6/16 18:14pm]

Layzie said:

I was over this album in a couple days.

She has a twenty year career with zero classic albums. If "creative" means taking ideas from others, then by all means....

+ this. she is indeed the epitome of the shallowness of the music industry in the last 20yrs. still, i have never heard anyone who talked about respecting her. they admire and proably envy her success but that's not respect. just like taylor swift, it's a matter of promotion and being innudated with her and her image. she seems very hard working, it seems like she stay on the grind. props for that.

Carousal, you may have a point. I perused Beyonce's website today and there was a
picture of that DJ Khalid/Khaleed whatever in Tampa and the stadium's upper deck level
was empty. It could speak to the stadium was just too big, or some other factor, or that
Beyonce may have struck upon a tour that is too big for her britches like you allude.

duccichucka said:

Carousal, you may have a point. I perused Beyonce's website today and there was a
picture of that DJ Khalid/Khaleed whatever in Tampa and the stadium's upper deck level
was empty. It could speak to the stadium was just too big, or some other factor, or that
Beyonce may have struck upon a tour that is too big for her britches like you allude.

Thanks for finally being objective and open minded, much respect to that. In all of her stadium shows she is not selling them out and is only utilizing a quarter of the stadium.

[Edited 7/7/16 16:33pm]

wavesofbliss said:

Layzie said:

I was over this album in a couple days.

She has a twenty year career with zero classic albums. If "creative" means taking ideas from others, then by all means....

+ this. she is indeed the epitome of the shallowness of the music industry in the last 20yrs. still, i have never heard anyone who talked about respecting her. they admire and proably envy her success but that's not respect. just like taylor swift, it's a matter of promotion and being innudated with her and her image. she seems very hard working, it seems like she stay on the grind. props for that.

THIS.

This project is W E A K.

avajane said:

Beyonce has a beautiful voice, dances well, is a great entertainer, has great stage presence (I'm not going to mention her looks because that's besides the point and it gets tiring that women are judged by their looks first before anything else), but she doesn't write her own music, and that's why I can't consider her one of the greats. It's that plain and simple. As far as her business and marketing skills, the only business I can think of is her clothing line, and I'm not sure how well it's doing. As far as her marketing skills, the one thing that comes to mind is her idea to release the Beyonce album online without promotion, but she wasn't the first to do it, Radiohead's In Rainbows (2007) comes to mind, albeit they did tell people online that it'd be released within 10 days. [Edited 7/6/16 17:39pm]

Whitney didnt write a lick either tho but she up there in praises higher than Mariah who wrote and co-wrote all her songs. We may be patrticular because of Prince though.

I am side eyeing a lot of you, with constantly comparing Beyonce and her circumstancs to legendary artists, cant be taken seriously anymore.

paisleypark4 said:

avajane said:

Beyonce has a beautiful voice, dances well, is a great entertainer, has great stage presence (I'm not going to mention her looks because that's besides the point and it gets tiring that women are judged by their looks first before anything else), but she doesn't write her own music, and that's why I can't consider her one of the greats. It's that plain and simple. As far as her business and marketing skills, the only business I can think of is her clothing line, and I'm not sure how well it's doing. As far as her marketing skills, the one thing that comes to mind is her idea to release the Beyonce album online without promotion, but she wasn't the first to do it, Radiohead's In Rainbows (2007) comes to mind, albeit they did tell people online that it'd be released within 10 days. [Edited 7/6/16 17:39pm]

Whitney didnt write a lick either tho but she up there in praises higher than Mariah who wrote and co-wrote all her songs. We may be patrticular because of Prince though.

But Beyonce is not Whitney.

She doesn't have Whitney's legendary unique voice and singing which is why Whitney is a legend.

WOW, continue to lick Beyonces ass, dont take a word you say seriously.... prince. org has gone down the toilet, done with this thread.

[Edited 7/7/16 18:35pm]

mjscarousal said:

^

She is successful but people overexaggerate her success and impact. Like for instance, she has never sold out a stadium. I was surprised to see photos on social media of empty sections and seats on her Formation tour. She is not selling out these shows contrary to what her PR is marketing. She is also not utilizing the entire stadium but just a quarter but her PR paints a different picture and people buy into her lies.

[Edited 7/1/16 19:54pm]

Girl, you're a liar and a fool.

Post the receipts. Not just the photos, but the PROOF that these seats did not sell. Because Pollstar says NO!

And FEW artists utilize the entire venue because the stage has to go SOMEWHERE and no one wants to be seated behind it

It's your precious Rihanna who isn't selling out stadiums and who has a practice of setting her stage near the middle of the field just to claim "STADIUM STATUS!!!"

ANYWAY, she absolutely is the most respected and CREATIVE artist in the pop game. BEYONCÉ signaled it and Lemonade sealed it. Most of these girls these days can't make ONE great song or ONE great video - in 2013, Beyoncé put out approximately seventeen. Most of these girls can't get it together for four minutes to make any statement - Beyoncé made several statements in 55 minutes this year. Nobody else is doing the caliber of work that she is in that realm, and they likely won't for some time.

And the respect goes without saying, even if there are a bunch of dunderheaded fools constantly trying in vain to combat it.

End.

kingcheetah said:

alphastreet said:

kingcheetah said:

ANYWAY, she absolutely is the most respected and CREATIVE artist in the pop game. BEYONCÉ signaled it and Lemonade sealed it. Most of these girls these days can't make ONE great song or ONE great video - in 2013, Beyoncé put out approximately seventeen. Most of these girls can't get it together for four minutes to make any statement - Beyoncé made several statements in 55 minutes this year. Nobody else is doing the caliber of work that she is in that realm, and they likely won't for some time.

And the respect goes without saying, even if there are a bunch of dunderheaded fools constantly trying in vain to combat it.

End.

I love her work ethic and she's doing well. I'm not saying this to discredit her, but there is truth to her being the token black female right now. Plenty of people have lots to say, and express their own narratives I'm sure, but they don't have the label push and money invested as she does, and cause of her consistency, I guess they're putting in the money for her while others miss out or are doing similar work or promoting similar messages but not getting the same level exposure cause they don't have her name/brand.

The token black female has a big giant #BlackLivesMatter statement on her website right now. Uhhhh-huh. Miss me.

If there is a "token black female", it is Rihanna.

[Edited 7/8/16 15:17pm]

I am absolutely not a fan of Beyoncé in any way but I also don´t hate her. I find her music and persona a bit boring but that´s probably just me.

But what surprises me is to read that she uses profanity (and Cinnie even brought up the name Millie Jackson ) , and that Lemonade is about relationship problems that she´s been having with Jay-Z .

I never knew they had any problems in their marriage. I only read a few lines in some mag about Jay-Z cheating on her but other than that, I have no idea of what has happened over the last 6 years.

So...Jay-Z has cheated on Beyoncé, Beyoncé has released a highly personal album but the songs were all written by songwriters?

I thought Lemonade was more of a political statement? Maybe I read something wrong.

KoolEaze said:

I am absolutely not a fan of Beyoncé in any way but I also don´t hate her. I find her music and persona a bit boring but that´s probably just me.

But what surprises me is to read that she uses profanity (and Cinnie even brought up the name Millie Jackson ) , and that Lemonade is about relationship problems that she´s been having with Jay-Z .

I never knew they had any problems in their marriage. I only read a few lines in some mag about Jay-Z cheating on her but other than that, I have no idea of what has happened over the last 6 years.

So...Jay-Z has cheated on Beyoncé, Beyoncé has released a highly personal album but the songs were all written by songwriters?

I thought Lemonade was more of a political statement? Maybe I read something wrong.

Beyoncé has not spoken on whether Lemonade is a reflection her life, and likely won't anytime soon, but given that she has always maintained that she puts her life into her music (however veiled), it sure. It can't be 100% to the letter though, because her father isn't dead ("Daddy Lessons". Speaking of her father, the album could also be drawing from the story of her mother, who we know experienced infidelity in her previous marriage.

At face value (sans visual) the album appears as a song cycle depicting the dissolution and reformation of a relationship damaged by infidelity. The film, however, uses poetry by Warsan Shire and visual elements to turn that base into an allegory representing the plight of the black woman in society.

kingcheetah said:

KoolEaze said:

I am absolutely not a fan of Beyoncé in any way but I also don´t hate her. I find her music and persona a bit boring but that´s probably just me.

But what surprises me is to read that she uses profanity (and Cinnie even brought up the name Millie Jackson ) , and that Lemonade is about relationship problems that she´s been having with Jay-Z .

I never knew they had any problems in their marriage. I only read a few lines in some mag about Jay-Z cheating on her but other than that, I have no idea of what has happened over the last 6 years.

So...Jay-Z has cheated on Beyoncé, Beyoncé has released a highly personal album but the songs were all written by songwriters?

I thought Lemonade was more of a political statement? Maybe I read something wrong.

Beyoncé has not spoken on whether Lemonade is a reflection her life, and likely won't anytime soon, but given that she has always maintained that she puts her life into her music (however veiled), it sure. It can't be 100% to the letter though, because her father isn't dead ("Daddy Lessons". Speaking of her father, the album could also be drawing from the story of her mother, who we know experienced infidelity in her previous marriage.

At face value (sans visual) the album appears as a song cycle depicting the dissolution and reformation of a relationship damaged by infidelity. The film, however, uses poetry by Warsan Shire and visual elements to turn that base into an allegory representing the plight of the black woman in society.

Thanks for your reply.

kingcheetah said:

KoolEaze said:

I am absolutely not a fan of Beyoncé in any way but I also don´t hate her. I find her music and persona a bit boring but that´s probably just me.

But what surprises me is to read that she uses profanity (and Cinnie even brought up the name Millie Jackson ) , and that Lemonade is about relationship problems that she´s been having with Jay-Z .

I never knew they had any problems in their marriage. I only read a few lines in some mag about Jay-Z cheating on her but other than that, I have no idea of what has happened over the last 6 years.

So...Jay-Z has cheated on Beyoncé, Beyoncé has released a highly personal album but the songs were all written by songwriters?

I thought Lemonade was more of a political statement? Maybe I read something wrong.

Beyoncé has not spoken on whether Lemonade is a reflection her life, and likely won't anytime soon, but given that she has always maintained that she puts her life into her music (however veiled), it sure. It can't be 100% to the letter though, because her father isn't dead ("Daddy Lessons". Speaking of her father, the album could also be drawing from the story of her mother, who we know experienced infidelity in her previous marriage.

At face value (sans visual) the album appears as a song cycle depicting the dissolution and reformation of a relationship damaged by infidelity. The film, however, uses poetry by Warsan Shire and visual elements to turn that base into an allegory representing the plight of the black woman in society.

You described it perfectly in a way I could not find words for. I saw it on vinyl yesterday and I must admit I was excited.

paisleypark4 said:

I don't have anything against Beyonce..or any other artist out there but they just seem so damn needy AND need so much approval and neeed to be in EVERYONES FACE all the damn time, Beyonce has talent, but not more than anyone else out there; Taylor, Pink, etc...i just see Beyonce as a look-at-me-look-at-me I'm needy!! Desperation is not attractive on anyone!

.

Kinda like Kim K..i swear of that bitch posts one more nude photo of herself

Ok back to Bey