Shawy89 said:

Lol. Butthurt fans everywhere, I feel sorry for the haters cause every Beyoncé hater is a closet Beyoncé fan. We all know everyone at least listened to Lemonade and thought oh it's actually a good album. Just calm up guys and enjoy the music this bitch makes.

I have learned a long time ago you are a joke and dont take a damn thing you say seriously. You shit on Janelle Monae and Bruno but rav about Beyonce, something is seriously wrong with you.

[Edited 6/24/16 23:08pm]

Once again, you have loudmouths in this thread who bully people around because they {the
loudmouths} think their opinion is more important than others - an appeal made to a method
of how to rank/judge talent notwithstanding, and at least Rolling Stone makes some type of at-
tempt to justify their opinion. Loudmouths screaming about their good taste in music and ex-
coriating other's perceived bad taste are usually the ones who can't really justify their taste
in the first place. Instead, they resort to bullying and it sticks in my craw. So, when the "We
Hate Beyonce With All of Our Hearts Stan Consortium" is raging, my "I Can't Stand the We Hate
Beyonce With All of Our Hearts Stan Consortium" spidey senses are triggered. So, let's go to
work Ducci . . .

Allow me to let you loudmouths in on a military secret: as much as you hate Beyonce and
don't like her music and think she's overrated and her fans are "stans" and she's "not creative,"
none of you can explain why this is the case. You simply don't like Beyonce; and you probably
don't like her because she is too entrenched in our pop consciousness. Just say: "I don't like
Beyonce because she is too entrenched in my pop consciousness and I won't even like her
album before I've listened to it" and I'd have more respect for your baseless, inane, and utterly
biased opinion. I'm also wondering if some of the females in this forum do not like Beyonce
because she is a pretty light skinned Black woman who is rich, famous, powerful, who is rich,
famous, powerful, who is rich, famous, powerful and a pretty light skinned Black woman; and
then, on top of that, she's rich, famous, and powerful. This is just anecdotal evidence but in
my high school days the pretty Black girls who were popular and got all the attention and dated
all the popular hot boyz and could sing caught the most hate from the butt-fugly booga-woofs
who had not an ounce of talent and a face only a mother could love. I sense some self-hate
being re-directed and projected onto Beyonce in this thread . . .

And why is it that I have to be a "stan" if I like somebody passionately? What a dumb-ass term.
I really like Mozart and like him so much that I defend his compositional acumen against all other
composers', and I do so with vigor- so, that's a cause to be disparaging towards me? Fuck outta
here with that "stan" bullshit.

alphastreet said:

I personally liked her better earlier in her career as a performer. I appreciate her taking musical risks with her current music but I don't know if I can call lemonade her best work ever though that's what I keep hearing, and though I appreciate doing styles different from her usual and think some of the tracks are interesting. I think I'm just tired of her and the media reducing her to the infidelity thing and using that to market her music and tours these days when she puts on a good show on her own and has talent to back it up. [Edited 6/25/16 9:24am] [Edited 6/25/16 9:25am]

Now if more posts were as mature and reasoned as this one, I'd have to call my "I Can't Stand
the We Hate Beyonce With All of Our Hearts Stan Consortium" dogs offa muahfuckers in this
thread.

I haven't listened to Lemonade either (and I won't) but I don't have to in order to have absolute
disdain for people who haven't listed to it yet still find time hate on her and hate on the people
who like her. If you haven't heard Lemonade, then you can't comment intelligently on why she
is not the most respected and creative artist in the pop game.

Anyways, great post, Alpha.

There has never been a time in pop culture when a major pop recording artist hesitated
on using their private life as a marketing ploy in an effort to gain or influence sales. If
Beyonce uses her private life and the supposed marital discord of her relationship to make
and sell her music, a lot of women/people who can identify with a cheating ass husband/
partner will relate. Revealing her struggles humanizes her and people gobble that shit up.

Her private life as a "marketing ploy" is the norm; and pop stars do not have private lives
so much anyways. You can hop on Instagram and see what Beyonce is eating; what beach
she's frolicking on; what she's wearing; what her kid looks like; who her bodyguard is;
if Jay-Z is with/not with her; etc.

Beyonce was getting noticed before she married Jay Z - I am not sure how you arrive at the con-
clusion of her getting "noticed as soon as she started using the jay z card." And I don't want
to get into a debate because you thought her work from the past "was way better" for that only
really means that you prefer Beyonce's music of the past than you do currently. But your argu-
ments and gripes are getting progessively worse: she's using her private life as a marketing ploy -
most pop megastars do this. She's been famous since 1996 - so she never needed to plaly a
"jay z card" in order to remain in the public eye. This means that you only getting the "public
consciousness thing somewhat" is odd. I don't ever recall hearing dissatisfaction with her live
shows starting from her tenure with D'C to today. And I don't know what you mean by "I just
don't see her as a hype machine" because in my opinion, everything she does is calculated and
while utilizing hype. Today's pop consumer has the attention span of gnat, so you have to keep
stoking the flames in order to not slip out of the pop consciousness. You want proof of this?
We're talking about a singer who debuted in the mid 90s which means she's been in the public
eye for two decades! She could do an entire show based simply on her hits, just like Prince and
just like Janet Jackson.

Beyonce, as a pop megastar, has done a helluva job at being a 21st century pop megastar. I
don't care about her music at all, but her names stays on people's lips even if it is to hate her,
so she's doing something right. She's pretty impressive when you think about her sex and her
color and the perpetual fluvial of human detritus located only in what is known as social media
where every jackass has something nasty to say about everything and everybody due to the utter
miserable-ness of their own wretched unfulfilled lives only two degrees more significant than
the existence associated with gutter cockroaches shat out by diarrheic dogs.

[Edited 6/25/16 16:23pm]

BULL........these people are so full of it!

Not a real Beyonce fan because she I'm not charmed by her star quality and dance moves, which must be why people make such a fuss about her. The music doesn't do it for me. Most of her melodies are simple and repetitive. I get that that's the point for a lot of lowest-common-denominator pop.

.

The cover of Crazy in Love from The Great Gatsby illustrates this well. Played without Beyonce's voice and personality, it sounds annoyingly repetitive (the song, not the performance): https://www.youtube.com/w...U8Uksj8p4.

.

And if all you like about Crazy in Love is the horn sample, check out the original: https://www.youtube.com/w...2YjDENPPU. For me, finding this tune was the best thing about Crazy in Love.

POOK said:

POOK said:

Not a real Beyonce fan because she I'm not charmed by her star quality and dance moves, which must be why people make such a fuss about her. The music doesn't do it for me. Most of her melodies are simple and repetitive. I get that that's the point for a lot of lowest-common-denominator pop.

.

The cover of Crazy in Love from The Great Gatsby illustrates this well. Played without Beyonce's voice and personality, it sounds annoyingly repetitive (the song, not the performance): https://www.youtube.com/w...U8Uksj8p4.

.

And if all you like about Crazy in Love is the horn sample, check out the original: https://www.youtube.com/w...2YjDENPPU. For me, finding this tune was the best thing about Crazy in Love.

I agree, what makes Crazy in Love stand out imo is the production sample but as you mentioned most of her songs are not "special" or make a lasting impact. People dont really make a fuss about her. Its really the media and she is made bigger than what she is because of the media spetacle surrounded by "who she is", "who she is married too", "her daughter" which has nothing necessarily to do with her talent or music. She uses gimmicks to stay in the spotlight.

LOLLOLLOOLLOLLOLLOOL!

Some people's opinions are as useful as a screen door on a submarine: so, because you don't
find someone's work as not being "special" or doesn't have a "lasting impact" on you, then that
is the case for everybody? And people don't make a fuss about her? You know how I know that
opinion is ridiculous?

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HER!

If Beyonce wasn't "fuss-able" then the threads about her would be bare. Some jelly rolls get their
rocks off by hating on a pretty light skinned Black woman who is talented, rich, and famous and
a pop culture powerbroker whose every move, gimmicky or not, sets the internetz abuzz with ad-
mirers and haters. The bitch has 75 million subscribers to her instagram account, yet people don't
make a fuss about her? I bet the people who have utter disdain for Beyonce know everything
about her too!

I don't like her music, but this chick is no joke, and I give her her props.

[Edited 6/26/16 6:03am]

mjscarousal said:

Shawy89 said:

mjscarousal said:

I have learned a long time ago you are a joke and dont take a damn thing you say seriously. You shit on Janelle Monae and Bruno but rav about Beyonce, something is seriously wrong with you.

[Edited 6/24/16 23:08pm]

Wut? You're clearly butthurt. You probably HATE Beyoncé so much you could stab her in the stomach if you ran into her someday, somehow. And after all this conversation is going to end and so will THOUSANDS OF OTHER DISCUSSIONS IN THOUSAND OTHER FORUMS ABOUT BEYONCE and none of it will ever, ever matter cause she will remain, to the public, through the media, an icon that is respected and creative. And sexy too...

I am not butthurt, I LOL at your opinions. You trash more quality artists and musicians but then stan for Beyonce.

No you just have shitty taste in music and your opinions are comical. I dont take anything that you say seriously.

mjscarousal said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Most respected? OK. Most creative? NO.

I listened to this album, and its grossly overrated. She is far from the "most creative" pop artist.

Anti is way better.

Um....

Obviously some of you are pressed. Not only is lemonade a good album, but there is also a movie / video for each ane every song. There is a theme and a story to the album just like the last one. i'm not sure but I don'r know any other female r&b artists that have put that much efforts into their music still. Not only that but the Formation Tour is pretty epic as well. I am the FIRST to admit now I did not like Beyonces first album or Sha Sha Fierce...but the rest is pretty darn good I admit.

Beyonce has alot of personality placed in her albums now. You get a sense of the woman she is now and becoming. She may have had help writing of course, but her vison is completely there.

I relaly dont know any other female r&b artists who can pull off alot of high energy performances like that and constantly keep up...and have a voice to match. Who can really do tracks like "Get Me Bodied" "Freedom"' "Ring The Alarm" "Blow" "Partition" "Grown Woman" "Single Ladies" "Freakum Dress" "Flawless" "Haunted". I like Rihanna to some degree...but she is very one dimensional. I used to think the same about Beyonce...but something changed when she released the 4 album. Suddenly...we heard her becoming detatched from the radio...and started making a real cohesive album.

B*Day

4

Beyonce

Lemonade

These albums are proving she is quite the force in the industry. One thing I noticed about this thread is that hardly any of your discussed the songs themselves?

paisleypark4 said:

mjscarousal said:

I listened to this album, and its grossly overrated. She is far from the "most creative" pop artist.

Anti is way better.

Um....

Thats the same reaction I had when I read your above post.

Shawy89 said:

mjscarousal said:

I have learned a long time ago you are a joke and dont take a damn thing you say seriously. You shit on Janelle Monae and Bruno but rav about Beyonce, something is seriously wrong with you.

[Edited 6/24/16 23:08pm]

Wut? You're clearly butthurt. You probably HATE Beyoncé so much you could stab her in the stomach if you ran into her someday, somehow. And after all this conversation is going to end and so will THOUSANDS OF OTHER DISCUSSIONS IN THOUSAND OTHER FORUMS ABOUT BEYONCE and none of it will ever, ever matter cause she will remain, to the public, through the media, an icon that is respected and creative. And sexy too...

Shawy, I couldn't have said it better myself. Carousal stays butt-hurt over Beyonce and I think
it has nothing to do with her music but the hype she gets, and deservedly so. There are not a
lot of Black women in showbiz'ness whose every move causes a stir. Her detractors in this forum
are short sighted and do not recognize Beyonce's cultural importance, especially after her Super
Bowl performance.

Even though I do not particularly enjoy her music, I would be making a big mistake if I didn't give
that girl her props.

paisleypark4 said:

B*Day

4

Beyonce

Lemonade

These albums are proving she is quite the force in the industry. One thing I noticed about this thread is that hardly any of your discussed the songs themselves?

Agreed.

This chick is a bad mutherfucker and we should be celebrating her even if we don't like her
music. She's a cultural force and her currency in pop culture goes a long way. I applaud her
for taking a stand and making albums that may not be my cup of tea - yet, that doesn't mean
that I don't recognize her gifts.

I'm glad she's on my team because Lord knows there are tons of Black American entertainers
and athletes and pop culture movers and shakers who are just standing on the sidelines.

Gawn gurl!

paisleypark4 said:

I never listened to Solange. There is a female recording artist who has her look and
makes interesting music: Jack Davey.

duccichucka said:

Concerning the above, respectfully, I disagree with that "someone." Here's why:

1) It is impossible to make this argument: Artist "7" in decade "P" would not have been successful if

s/he was in decade "Q" and to do so satisfactorily because that argument would be one of an anachron-
ism. In other words, stop ranking and comparing 2016 artists with artists in 1986 because each year has
different modes of expression; different business models; different artistic standards, etc.

2) I would argue that there is not much of a difference between the talents of Madonna, who was HUGE
in the 80s with the talents of Beyonce. I think Beyonce has more vocal talent than Madonna; and I think
Beyonce is a better dance than Madonna. Neither can act. And I think both could be on equal terms as to
who is more influential to their generation/era. This being said, I acknowledge that ranking, judging, and
comparing talent is probably futile. Therefore, in my opinion, if I did agree with you concerning
Beyonce's "mediocre" talent, then we must be willing to attribute the same to Madonna because, again:
Madonna isn't a great singer/dancer/songwriter/actress as well.

Face it: this board just flat out dislikes Beyonce, for whatever reason, and that clouds their judgment
for they appear to look for any reason to justify their antipathy. Beyonce is a force of nature in our
pop-world - give. that. girl. her. props. even. if. you. don't. like. her. music.

duccichucka said:

paisleypark4 said:

duccichucka said:

Concerning the above, respectfully, I disagree with that "someone." Here's why:

1) It is impossible to make this argument: Artist "7" in decade "P" would not have been successful if

s/he was in decade "Q" and to do so satisfactorily because that argument would be one of an anachron-
ism. In other words, stop ranking and comparing 2016 artists with artists in 1986 because each year has
different modes of expression; different business models; different artistic standards, etc.

2) I would argue that there is not much of a difference between the talents of Madonna, who was HUGE
in the 80s with the talents of Beyonce. I think Beyonce has more vocal talent than Madonna; and I think
Beyonce is a better dance than Madonna. Neither can act. And I think both could be on equal terms as to
who is more influential to their generation/era. This being said, I acknowledge that ranking, judging, and
comparing talent is probably futile. Therefore, in my opinion, if I did agree with you concerning
Beyonce's "mediocre" talent, then we must be willing to attribute the same to Madonna because, again:
Madonna isn't a great singer/dancer/songwriter/actress as well.

Face it: this board just flat out dislikes Beyonce, for whatever reason, and that clouds their judgment
for they appear to look for any reason to justify their antipathy. Beyonce is a force of nature in our
pop-world - give. that. girl. her. props. even. if. you. don't. like. her. music.

Yup she works hard for the money that's for sure. When yall favorite going to make a video for every song with their own money?

It truly is a matter of acknowledging reality.

It's not a matter of whether any given music fan respects her or thinks of her as creative. When it comes to popular music, titles like "most respected" and "most creative" come down to popular opinions. And right now, Bey has the votes from her public and her peers.

RS chose its words carefully.

RachB65 said:

duccichucka said:

Agreed.

This chick is a bad mutherfucker and we should be celebrating her even if we don't like her
music. She's a cultural force and her currency in pop culture goes a long way. I applaud her
for taking a stand and making albums that may not be my cup of tea - yet, that doesn't mean
that I don't recognize her gifts.

I'm glad she's on my team because Lord knows there are tons of Black American entertainers
and athletes and pop culture movers and shakers who are just standing on the sidelines.

Gawn gurl!

In another thread someone mentioned if Beyonce had been around in the 80s or early 90s she would not be the megastar she is now...It shows where n how the music industry has settled and image seems to b way more important than creativity n talent. Not that she isnt talented..Its just her talent, overall, is mediocre...ill bet most of her die hard fans are younger than her(or the same age)...Imsure many people will disagree with me and thats fine. This is my opinion only

This is exactly how I have personally always felt about her.

She is not without talent....... but her talent is very average and nothing unique.

There are much better singers than her in her generation. (Adele, Jennifer Hudson)

There are much better dancers than her in her generation (Bruno Mars, Chris Brown, Usher, etc)

There are much better artists than her in her generation. (Bruno Mars, Janelle Monae, Lady Gaga,)

IMO, Beyonce is not worthy of all these accolades and praise that she receives for subpar material and so so talent.

With Michael, there was no one better at what HE did.

With Prince, there was no one better at what HE did

With Whitney, there was no one better at what She did and so forth

They were "the best" in their respective lanes and they were unique and that is the difference between them and Beyonce. Beyonce benefits greatly from marketing. There are far better artists. Beyonce benefits from marketing/payola which is something that gives her an advantage compared to her peers.

[Edited 6/30/16 17:04pm]

namepeace said:

paisleypark4 said:

duccichucka said: Yup she works hard for the money that's for sure. When yall favorite going to make a video for every song with their own money?

It truly is a matter of acknowledging reality.

It's not a matter of whether any given music fan respects her or thinks of her as creative. When it comes to popular music, titles like "most respected" and "most creative" come down to popular opinions. And right now, Bey has the votes from her public and her peers.

RS chose its words carefully.

Your right it is about acknowledging reality but a lot of Beyonces PR does not accurately reflect how the general public views her. Based off of record sells at the current moment Drakes album is the highest selling album this year, out selling Beyonces Lemonade and he has the highest number one in recent years with One Dance and same with Rihanna with Work. The probelm with Beyonce is that, the way she is marketed has never reflected how the public actually see's her. Also, she controls the way she is marketed through the media so I don't think it is fair to assume that people think "she is the most creative artist" just because RS says so. Her PR teams puts out a lot of these articles themselves. She owns a stake in RS, Forbes and a lot of publications that write about her, doesnt mean the general public agrees.